Greek Economy could affect travel plans

[TLCOhio]

My cruise ship arrives in Piraeus on the 20th. I'm crossing my fingers that everything will normalize by then.

 

From Fblack and Nick_Arch, they have provide important, additional background info on this complex and challenging financial "mess" in Europe. For our traveler on the 20th, don't assume that things will be "normal" by then. As noted below, there will be a strike on Oct. 19. Hopefully, it will over by the 20th. BUT, your cruise visit should work out in some reasonable manner. This whole Europe and euro things is far from over. It has taken a long time to get here and it won't be "cured" quickly. The euro has dropped down to nearly $1.34 or so during this past week.

 

From the New York Times today, they have this headline: "Worried Greeks Fear Collapse of Middle Class Welfare State" with these highlights: "While banks and European leaders hold abstract talks in foreign capitals about the impact of a potential Greek default on the euro and the world economy, something frighteningly concrete is under way in Greece: the dismantling of a middle-class welfare state in real time — with nothing to replace it. Since 2010, the government has raised taxes and slashed pensions and state salaries across the board, in an effort to rein in the bloated public sector that today employs one in five Greeks. Last week, the government announced it would put 30,000 workers on reduced pay as a precursor to possible termination and would cut pensions again for nearly half a million public-sector retirees."

 

This NYT story also notes: "The so-called troika of foreign lenders — the European Central Bank, the European Commission and the International Monetary Fund — is increasingly playing hardball with the Greek government, insisting it meet its deficit-reduction goals before it decides whether to release the next installment of $11 billion that Greece needs to meet expenses starting in mid-October. Many Greeks fear a vicious circle: a death spiral of more austerity measures, further economic contraction and correspondingly lower tax revenues, making it that much harder to make a dent in the debt, pushing the country toward default in spite of the austerity. Unions have called general strikes for Oct. 5 and Oct. 19, and tensions are building."

 

Full story at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/25/world/europe/as-welfare-state-collapses-greeks-suffer-and-fear-future.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1316952398-LIKbdYRMAjsjV0LHC3zMqw

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 41,062 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[vjmatty]

Greek transit workers strike and more strikes are on the way October 5th and October 19th.

 

9/23/2011: Greek Transit Workers Strike

 

" ATHENS—Thousands of Greek public-transport workers walked off the job Thursday in a 24-hour strike over new austerity measures... The walkout halted all mass transit around the capital, Athens, leading to massive traffic jams during the morning rush hour—some stretching for miles...

 

The strike, involving bus, subway, tram, electric-rail, trolley and suburban-rail workers, is the first in a series of protests planned for coming days over the latest cutbacks. ...Taxi owners also walked off the job, and teachers called their own 24-hour strike. Air-traffic controllers at the Athens airport held a three-hour walkout lasting until mid-afternoon Thursday, which led to the cancellation or delay of dozens of flights. ...

 

Greece's two main umbrella unions.... have said they plan a nationwide public-sector strike on Oct. 5 and a nationwide general strike on Oct. 19. ..."

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903703604576586033786670962.html

 

Interesting.....I was in Athens yesterday and Corfu on Saturday. All was business as usual with taxis as far as the eye could see. The Corinth Canal was operational and the port shuttles in Corfu were running regularly. Maybe this was a temporary measure?

[Fblack]

On Monday, 9/26/2011 another unscheduled strike broke out snarling traffic is Athens. Check out the photos in the following story. You can scroll through 9 current photos. So no matter when you arrive in Greece, be prepared for any situation. I suspect a private tour company will not participate in any strike.

 

Photo Caption: A woman passes a street as motorcyclists make their way through long lines of vehicles in central Athens on Monday, Sept. 26, 2011. The Greek capital faced extensive traffic jams due to a 24-hour Metro, tram and suburban strikes, while buses and trolleys were to stop operating for several hours in the middle of the day.

 

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gfM7dp2eh3a05ZhgRncSgJHQe9rA?docId=8b514e11fa744e1381cf7875c6a839c2

[Fblack]

I never realized how difficult the economy was to the small shopkeepers in Athens. And with the threats of strikes and protests, tourists are staying away. The numbers are staggering.

 

9/22/21011 :Shopkeepers shutter shops as Greek crisis bites

 

"Tens of thousands of small businesses, which make up a big chunk of the Greek economy, have closed since the government secured a 110 billion euro ($150 billion) bailout package from international lenders... In the Athens area, more than 20 percent of shops have closed since 2010, according to the ESEE retail federation.... More than 68,000 small businesses have shut down so far this year, according to ESEE. It expects about 53,000 to close down in the next six months...."

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-greece-business-idUSTRE78L3VN20110922

[Anapli]

Just an example for Greeks problems:

 

annual earnings 2010 = 25.000 euro

I've a house 75 square meters in Athens

I've my parents house 70 s.m. at Nafplion (I visit once per year)

I've a car 1600 cc

 

I've pay until today 20.000 euro for taxes and extra taxes and we waiting another extra tax this month (1000-2000 euro)..

 

so, I have 3-4000 euro for live me and my family this year:p

[TLCOhio]

Just an example for Greeks problems:

annual earnings 2010 = 25.000 euro

I've a house 75 square meters in Athens

I've my parents house 70 s.m. at Nafplion (I visit once per year)

I've a car 1600 cc

I've pay until today 20.000 euro for taxes and extra taxes and we waiting another extra tax this month (1000-2000 euro)..

so, I have 3-4000 euro for live me and my family this year:p

 

Appreciate the added information and background on a challenging situation for those in Greece.

 

From National Public Radio (NPR) in the last ten minutes, they have this headline: "More Trouble In Greece Ahead Of Debt Inspections" with these highlights: "Greece's capital city was gridlocked Wednesday as mass-transit workers walked off the job for the third day this week over fresh austerity measures imposed by the government in hopes of securing crucial bailout funds. The 24-hour strike left Athens without buses, subway trains, taxis or trams. Workers in customs and tax offices also walked off the job, and scores of retirees picketed outside the Finance Ministry to protest pension cuts. Late Tuesday night, police fired teargas to break up demonstrations out side the Greek Parliament building after lawmakers passed a new tax on real estate."

 

Full story at:

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/28/140876618/more-trouble-in-greece-ahead-of-debt-inspections

 

Also this AP breaking news story on how the terms of Greek bail-out deal might be changed by Germany. It includes this highlight: "German Chancellor Angela Merkel hinted that the second Greek bailout package might have to be renegotiated amid increasing market speculation Wednesday that European leaders want to force private holders of Greek bonds to take bigger losses."

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1061089--merkel-says-greek-bailout-terms-may-be-changed

 

Clearly this "whole deal" is still a "work in progress", not a final and done situation.

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 42,025 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[TLCOhio]

From the Daily Mail in London in the past few minutes, they have this headline: "World held to ransom by Greek civil servants as 'wildcat' strikes stall bailout talks" with these highlights: "Vital talks on a lifeline bailout for Greece were stalled again yesterday by 'wildcat' strikes, adding yet more misery to an already dire market. Angry civil servants blocked Greece's government buildings preventing bureaucrats from finalising next year's budget figures and the release of fiscal aid to the tune of 8billion euros."

 

The Reuters story provides added details. This includes: "But the meetings with the 'troika' of auditors have got off to a bumpy start, with state workers protesting against the austerity measures the government pledged to lure the inspectors back to Athens. Access to several ministries was blocked. Prime Minister George Papandreou's Socialist government plans to cut its wage bill by 20 percent and put about 30,000 people in a so-called 'labor reserve', effectively a waiting-room for redundancy."

 

These "problems" on Friday do not seem to have caused problems for tourists. The challenge is whether Greece will and/or can make the cuts promised . . . AND . . . will the other nations in Europe keep sending money to fund the continued bail-outs for the Greeks.

 

Full stories at:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044094/World-held-ransom-Greek-civil-servants-wildcat-strikes-stall-bailout-talks.html#ixzz1ZXsKyrJb

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/30/us-greece-idUSTRE78S16X20110930?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 42,612 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[TLCOhio]

The euro has dropped down to $1.33 this morning per the Wall Street Journal, the lowest in many months. That lower euro value helps, kind of, maybe, for some upcoming travelers, but, it is still true that these financial conditions in Europe continue to be very "fluid" and uncertain.

 

From the Reuters news wire within the last half hour today, they have this headline: "Greek gloom rocks markets, troubles lenders" with these highlights: "Greece's admission that it will miss its deficit target this year despite harsh new austerity measures sent stock markets reeling on Monday and raised new doubts over a planned second international bailout. The gloomy news from Athens brought the specter of a debt default closer and will weigh on talks among euro zone finance ministers in Luxembourg later on Monday on the next steps to try to resolve the currency area's sovereign debt crisis."

 

This article goes on to note: "Political resistance to pouring more public money into euro zone bailouts is growing across northern Europe. 'Greece is bankrupt,' said Michael Fuchs, a deputy parliamentary floor leader in German Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats, reflecting a growing mood in Berlin. The debt and GDP projections illustrate how Greece has fallen into a vicious spiral of recession, falling revenues, soaring unemployment and declining consumer purchasing power."

 

Greece’s cabinet on Sunday approved large cuts in next year’s budget, including the immediate dismissal of thousands of public sector workers. These added cuts will probably spur more strikes, in some forms. Transportation workers are among those most affected by the cuts and are set to stage a six-hour strike on Monday. Other articles note that about 23,000 workers nearing retirement will lose their positions along with 7,000 others after mergers and restructuring at dozens of state-controlled operations/organizations. Also reported was that the country's public sector union ADEDY said workers will abandon their posts on Tuesday and proceed with a 24-hour strike, together with private sector union GSEE on Wednesday. Air flights will apparently be scrubbed during part of Wednesday. The German article listed below noted: "Greek officials have not made it clear whether the plan would only be used to force early retirement among older workers, or if it would also make younger civil servants redundant. The public sector, whose employees are protected from dismissal by the Greek constitution, accounts for a fifth of Greece's labor force. Labor unions have vowed to step up pressure against the Socialist government, planning strikes and protests in coming weeks. The government, which has a majority of just four seats in parliament, could be forced into elections if just a handful of legislators balk at the austerity plans."

 

Timing for all of these various future strikes is not totally certain now. Not good news for Greece, Europe or the world economy. The below NY TImes story, headlined "Toil and Trouble Over the Caldron That Is Greece", gives more analysis. BUT, hopefully, the cruise lines will continue to monitor carefully and that visitors there will consider back-up plans, etc., options.

 

Full stories at:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/03/us-eurozone-idUSTRE79211720111003

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/03/world/europe/greeces-urgency-challenges-european-union-efforts.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15145292

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/greece-deficit-cuts-slowed-recession-14654650

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15432365,00.html

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 42,859 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[TLCOhio]

Today was a scheduled strike day in Athens and for others parts of Greece. The news is not good from there, but several articles make the clear point that the impact on private-sector aspects of their economy were fairly limited. This could be "good news" if you are planning on future travel to Greece on a strike day. Those with private arrangements are less likely to be impacted, if and if.

 

From the two on-site reporters for USA Today as shown on the ABC News website, they have this headline: "Strike closes down most of Greece" with these highlights: "Thousands of Greek workers shut down schools, hospitals and museums Wednesday to protest spending cuts that the government says are needed to prevent a bankruptcy that could roil global financial markets. People affiliated with the Communist Party marched into the central Syntagma Square, carrying red flags and chanting: 'No sacrifice for the bosses!' Others waved banners stating, 'The rich must pay!' Most private workers did not join the protests. Air-traffic controllers left work, forcing the cancellation of dozens of flights. Getting around was difficult since ferry services, bus and train lines were not running at full capacity. The Athens Acropolis and major museums were closed."

 

Reporters for the Irish Times were there and their story had this headline: "Violence as Greeks take to streets over layoffs". It was a 24-hour strike. It was called by the country’s public sector and private sector trade union federations with lawyers, doctors and nurses participateing. Ministries and government agencies were shut, trains stood still and planes were grounded. A key point noted in their story was that this story were "far from bringing the country to a standstill. Most workers in the private sector went to their jobs, while many state schools continued to function as normal in many city districts and areas across the country."

 

More details are provided in the below Washington Post story from Athens, plus from MSNBC.

 

Full stories at:

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/strike-closes-greece/story?id=14677550

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2011/1006/1224305330270.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/greece-austerity-strike-cripples-country/2011/10/05/gIQAqzIlNL_blog.html

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/05/8166914-outraged-protesters-clash-with-police-in-greece

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 43,111 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[TLCOhio]

Things have seemed fairly "calm" in Greece for the past few days. The next major strike will be on the 19th.

 

From the AP newswire today, they have this headline: "For Greeks, future is a void" with these highlights: "The future is a void, and anger and helplessness dig deep in the Greek psyche. Joblessness is climbing and essential services such as health care and policing are losing resources. The crisis may pale beside the bloody conflict or poverty in Libya or Afghanistan, but the hardship is as much psychological as economic. There is plenty of blame to go around, and nobody is exempt — from free-spending Greeks, to the politicians they elected, to Germany and the international lenders with their dire prescriptions of cuts and then more cuts."

 

This in-depth, background story does not answer the exact questions on what strikes and actions are next, but it does provide more on what brought Greece to this point in its significant, roller-coaster history. Also below is this NY Times analysis by Floyd Norris that has this headline: "Few cried for Argentina but many may weep for Greece"

 

Other stories indicate that there are various strike or demonstration days. Some small, some larger. Most do not impact those cruisers who have private arrangements.

 

Full stories at:

http://www.ajc.com/business/for-greeks-future-is-1196874.html

http://www.smh.com.au/business/few-cried-for-argentina-but-many-may-weep-for-greece-20111007-1ldx3.html

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 43,376 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[iancal]

We have been to Greece twice ın the past sıx months. The fırst tıme was a 7 day land trıp to Crete ın early May. The second was a cruıse ın the Greek Islands ın the latter half of September.

 

We dıd not have any ıssues.

 

İn fact we are apprecıatıve of those who decıded not to go or who cancelled prevıous plans. We got fabulous prıcıng on both-the cruıse prıcıng ın partıcular was just too good to resıst.

[Fblack]

While the next major strike in Greece is set for next week, they had a 24 hour transit strike today. And there is a garbage strike too. Athens is a mess.

 

 

OCTOBER 10, 2011, 10:27 A.M. ET: Athens Hit by Transit Strike

 

ATHENS—Greece's capital was hit by a 24-hour mass-transit strike, joining a series of walkouts by workers angry over government plans to cut public-sector wages and jobs, ...The transit strike affected all bus, urban rail and trolley-bus services in the greater Athens area—home to almost half the Greek population—and created traffic chaos, made worse by a torrential downpour, during the early morning rush-hour as residents struggled to get into work.

 

...A separate protest by municipal workers in Athens is now entering its second week, with the employees blockading the city's main garbage dump and garbage-truck depots, and leading to a freeze on sanitation services in the city. According to some estimates, some 20,000 metric tons of garbage remain uncollected on the streets of Athens.

 

...At the same time, employees at state-detention centers Monday staged a 24-hour strike, and ambulance workers have called a four-hour work stoppage. Air-traffic controllers continue a work-to-rule campaign that has led to the cancellation of dozens of flights. "

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203633104576622443743876626.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[Gamin2008]

Please don't turn this into a political discussion.

 

FYI, 'Socialist', across Europe, can have different meanings which all more or less denote that the party in question is a 'working man's party' which has more of a social agenda than the Liberals.

What in the US is known as 'Socialist' we call 'Communist'... you were apparently confused by this, as well as not being familiar with the recent Greek political history.

To add to the confusion, 'Liberals' in Europe more or less equate to Republicans in the US.

'nuff said:cool:

 

I agree about not turning this into a political discussion.

 

Perhaps we should look at what is going on in our Own Country before analysing and judging others actions.

As I recall, the US also introduced bail-outs and have major economy problems as does Canada!

I do not think any Country will get out of this dive unless Free Trade becomes Fair Trade!

[iancal]

The US banks, investment houses, insurance companies, and the ever poorly managed US automobile manufacturers were very much in favor of 'socialism' when they gladly reached out and accepted government handouts in the form of capital infusions and loan guarantees.

 

I suspect that once their accounts are back in the black their memories of this will fade and they will once again be violently opposed to socialism and or government intervention. At least until the next Government bail outs are required.

[Gamin2008]

Yes, humans tend to forget too easily.

One new catastrophe makes us forget the last.

 

Media and Governments are good at that...making people focus on something else! Isn't that a nice form of communistic control or some might say, damage control!

 

Happy Trails!

[Fblack]

Looks like Museums and archeological sights will be closed by strikers. Plus just about everything else. This is now the second year in a row that I bypassed Athens and Greece on European cruises. Luckily I have been to Athens twice before on cruises.

 

10/12/2011: Greece Hit by Strikes, Work Stoppages Against Austerity Measures

 

"...Greek state workers blocked access to the Finance Ministry’s main building in central Athens...The federation plans a nine-day strike beginning Oct. 17,...Strikes and work stoppages will affect government services, transport, hospitals, schools and tourist sites in the run-up to next week’s Parliament vote. ...

 

...Culture Ministry employees began a 48-hour strike today, shutting down museums and archaeological sites. Greek prisons will operate on reduced staff due to a 24-hour strike today and work stoppages on Oct. 13 and 14. Dockworkers at Greek ports stopped work for four hours today and ferry services to the Greek islands will be disrupted by a 48-hour strike on Oct. 17...The Athens metro, used by 620,000 passengers daily, along with city buses, trams and trolleys won’t operate for two days starting tomorrow due to a strike.

 

...School teachers will hold a three-hour walkout tomorrow...City workers have blocked access to city garages and garbage dumps around Greece, causing rubbish to pile up on streets...."

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-12/greece-hit-by-strikes-work-stoppages-against-austerity-measures.html

[nick_arch]

You are a brave soul.Your question cannot possibly be answered ,by saying this is how it is.The system makes Byzantine bureaucracy look like child's play.

There are untold number of possibilities to determine eligibility,age, and retirement pay.It depends on how many DAYS work you have in your lifetime,

which organization ,from how many different pension offices you

belong to,your pay,your age and special family or work related

circumstances applicable to you ,and this does not even begin to cover this mess.

There is no distinction between union and non union pensions.Its all the same.its your individual circumstances that dictate the result.

Unions there are set up different.

When they say the private workers union is on strike for benefits,it does not mean that the union has negotiated pension or other benefits with an employer,like here in the States.

The unions try to influence the government to change the laws that apply to ALL employees of a certain profession/retirement bureau.

Its a lot more complicated than this ,because believe me the system ,even though it can be characterized as archaic,in reality its impossible to describe.

So the 30 years and 80% is a gross generalization at best, and really not representative of anything.

The government does not pick up anything.It operates as a safety valve of sorts if the different retirement bureaus,run out of money and the like.

Kind of a PBGC here without the insurance premiums coming in.

The funds of those and all programs have been pilfered by all governments .

The real issues are not the pensions,if this is what you are trying to figure out,but government overspending on all projects,the massive tax evasion especially in the private sector,a beyond belief misappropriation of funds by one and all in government.

In the public sector all governments used massive hiring as a vote getting measure just before ALL elections since the 50's.

Public employee jobs(a job for life,you cannot get fired) were used to get votes in all elections,local and national and by doing so inflated present and future obligations for pay ,benefits ,and pensions to unbelievable levels.

Public companies were ,and are, overstaffed by 1000's upon 1000,s percent.

 

The employee and the employer both are supposed to pay into the pension system.Generally speaking.

That,s not the problem,even though many try to trick the system,

Its the devil in the details and a government monster of inadequacy that's causing it.

Among others.

Clear us mud right?

In reality its not as transparent as mud.Get the idea?

 

Manurules, you are being very kind.

It's not 1,000's of overstaff. We are speaking about tens of thousands.

 

Our system here got to a dead end.

Instead of keeping pension money in a fund, these were spent in other projects with money vaporizing somewhere. As a basic rule, social security payment here, including hospital coverage and pension "savings" ( sic ) is 84% on top of the salary. So, roughly speaking, for a 1,000 euros monthly salary, you get in hand 840; employer pays a total of another 840 euros to the government ( 16% employee's part and 68% employers part ).

You end up in an 1 euro in your pocket + 1 euro in the governments pocket pattern with no other option like private plan allowed.

 

Most of the private health companies would offer you here a 5* treatment for 840euros / $1130 per month, cause this is what the employer pays!

 

Same surreal story with taxes. Taxes are not used to pay projects but to pay interest rates and pensions / salaries. Tax brackets are multiple to those in the States, with a max 45% bracket ( +6% adtl taxes ) when you make more than 45,000 euros a year.

 

Highest bracket in USA was 35% for the +350,000$ bracket if i am correct.

 

So:

 

So, social security money and taxes are spent to pay pensions, salaries of public employees and interest rate on borrowed money. With money not being enough, you miss some money and you go after that in the intl market.

 

Problems for Greece started at the start of the 80's but collapse started at 2009 when tax money and pension payments, along with all the money intl market was willing to borrow were not enough to cover all expenses.

[TLCOhio]

Appreciate the added insights and details from Fblack and nick_arch. From their reports, plus the latest news items this morning, it does seem that things are, sadly, getting worse in Athens. Lots coming Oct. 19-20.

 

From the French AFP newswire they morning, they have this headline: "Greek minister urges national unity amid strikes" with these highlights: "Greece's finance minister on Friday urged trade unions not to 'play with fire' as hundreds of angry taxi owners marched in Athens where strikes crippled transport and piled uncollected garbage in the streets. Some 2,000 cab owners who oppose deregulation demonstrated in the city centre, brandishing Greek flags and shouting slogans against the government. Public sector staff have regularly taken over state buildings in recent days to protest against a new round of layoffs and pay cuts adopted to trim the country's bulging deficit. Customs inspectors also began a ten-day strike on Friday, raising the prospect of fuel shortages. A full-blown 48-hour general strike will be held on October 19 and 20."

 

From the AP, these highlights: "Public transportation ground to a halt in Greece's capital once more Thursday as workers began a 48-hour strike against new austerity measures being imposed by the government. The strikes and occupation of the building are the latest in a series of walkouts, sit-ins at government buildings and protests as unions lash out against the austerity measures the government is putting in place to ensure it qualifies for loans from its $151 billion international bailout package that is preventing it from defaulting."

 

From another AP story: "Buses, metro trains, trams and taxis were not running in the Greek capital Friday, snarling traffic as public transport workers walked off the job for a second day in an unrelenting barrage of protests against government austerity measures. Taxi drivers on Friday joined the second day of a 48-hour public transport strike, leaving private cars and motorcycles as the only form of transport in the Greek capital. Mounds of garbage have piled up on the capital's streets due to a blockade of landfill sites by municipal workers. A wave of strikes is expected next week, with seamen leaving ferries tied up at ports for two days from Monday and hospital doctors and teachers also walking off the job. The labor action is to culminate in a two-day nationwide general strike on Oct. 19-20. The air traffic controllers' union called on its members to join the strike for both days, which would ground all domestic and international flights and leave country cut off from the rest of the world."

 

Full stories at:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j7o--LR-gXfq9qbRHDbQqCFyHTgQ?docId=CNG.616e84a2dc96cba1c34a27f26df69be6.a61

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QB8NAO0.htm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/14/ap/business/main20120368.shtml

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at over 44,200 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[wwinfl91]

In seeing what is happening now in Athens, I feel really lucky that we were able to see the Acropolis and Agora before the strikes shut it down. It is a site everyone interested in art, architecture and history should see at least once in their life.

 

I hope the Greek people and Greek government can come to a decision that makes sense for everyone.

 

Have a great next cruise.

[eh2zed]

In seeing what is happening now in Athens, I feel really lucky that we were able to see the Acropolis and Agora before the strikes shut it down. It is a site everyone interested in art, architecture and history should see at least once in their life.

 

I hope the Greek people and Greek government can come to a decision that makes sense for everyone.

 

Have a great next cruise.

Totally agree

[TLCOhio]

In seeing what is happening now in Athens, I feel really lucky that we were able to see the Acropolis and Agora before the strikes shut it down. It is a site everyone interested in art, architecture and history should see at least once in their life. I hope the Greek people and Greek government can come to a decision that makes sense for everyone. Have a great next cruise.

 

Agree on all three counts. We loved our 2006 visit to Athens, the great weather, etc. Being on that Acropolis hill is awesome and so close to amazing history/architecture. You have to see it in person and be there to appreciate it fully and totally. Second, we hope it does work out and get solved for Greece. Third, YES, make the best of your next cruise. Focus on the positives, not any problems that might happen.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

You can check out my earlier post on “Athens Tips, Suggestions, Examples to Enjoy!” for many details, ideas and interesting visuals on this great city. Lots of ideas here from me and others experienced with Athens. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1101008

 

 

Enjoying a bright, sunny day with my wife in front of the famed Parthenon in Athens. Picture snapped by our guide. What a great day there!!!:

 

[nick_arch]

Well. . . it's like going on a 4G roller coaster.

You always know this will end somehow but not many things make a lot of sense during the ride. At all.

 

Things are substantially more difficult to locals rather than visitors.

 

Visitors may face some disruptions; some more, some less, some none. Reality though is that we are now entering the main act of this whole thing, which means raise of taxation in extreme levels, fighting at the same time a really bad market with real unemployment already over 20%. It's not an easy game, includes a lot of strike action and sensibly expected dissapointment, frustration and anger.

 

Trying to "fight" the lack of transportation, we are already having "strike parties" here. Those of us living in the center are hosting friends that can't commute, either because they can't afford the taxi fare or because no other commuting option exists. With gas already up to the equivalent of $8.50 per gallon, we don't even dare to get private cars running :- ) So, with some home made pizza, a lot of optimism and a lot of good will we are trying to help each other in any way possible.

 

Following week will be a difficult one, with tension rising sharply on the 19th and 20th, days of strike and possible problems at Syndagma Square. Again: most passengers on cruise ship excursion will most probably NOT get anything; walking around Acropolis area, only 10 minutes walking distance from Syndagma, feels like a different world.

 

We 'll see. . .this is a time for us locals, to retain our clear mind, our dignity and our efficiency.

 

And above all, our humane feelings.

[nick_arch]

Terry!!

You managed to get the "no scaffoldings photo" of the North side of the Parthenon :) Kudos!! :D

[TLCOhio]

Terry!! You managed to get the "no scaffoldings photo" of the North side of the Parthenon :) Kudos!! :D

 

Appreciate the mention on the scaffolding issue at the Parthenon. Didn't know that was so difficult to achieve. Glad we were lucky. We had a great guide there (a former school teacher) and such wonderful weather.

 

From the AP newswire last night, they have this headline: "Greek unions vow more building take-overs" with these highlights: "Protesting Greek unions vowed to bring the government to a standstill next week, as uncollected trash piled up around Athens, traffic was snarled and more professions signed up for a 48-hour general strike against the country's relentless austerity measures. Defying government warnings, the civil servants' union called Friday on its members to occupy government buildings next week. The union is already leading a general strike planned on Oct. 19 and 20, timed to coincide with a vote in parliament to pass new austerity measures. Air traffic controllers announced plans Friday to join the protest, promising to ground all flights on the two days of the general strike."

 

Full story at:

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9QCCSI82.htm

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 44,327 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[TLCOhio]

Nothing too major this morning in the news media as related to Greece and the upcoming October 19-20 strikes there. Most of the focus is on the overall Europe economy and who takes what "hits" trying to fix their overall "situation". From the Bloomberg/Business Week newswire yesterday morning, they have this headline: "Euro Rescue Plan Takes Shape Amid G-20 Finance Chief Talks" with these highlights: "European officials are outlining a rescue plan that may include deeper investor losses on Greek bonds, higher bank capital levels and increased firepower for bailouts and the International Monetary Fund. The plan’s elements emerged as finance ministers and central bankers from the Group of 20 began talks in Paris lobbying their European counterparts to end the two-year sovereign debt crisis. Standard & Poor’s yesterday cut Spain’s credit rating for the third time in three years and new data showed the eight largest U.S. money-market funds almost halved their lending to French banks last month. European leaders may complete the plan at an Oct. 23 summit to present to a gathering of G-20 chiefs Nov. 3-4. The aim is to craft what French Finance Minister Francois Baroin today called a 'durable, complete package' to fix the turmoil that has propelled Greece to the edge of default and is rattling global markets."

 

Full story at:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-14/euro-rescue-plan-takes-shape-amid-g-20-finance-chief-talks.html

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

 

Recently back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 44,422 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474