FYI: Southwest refused overweight passenger

[imluvncruzn]

I'm sure you've all heard the story about Southwest Airlines refusing to let an overweight man fly with them unless he bought a second seat about a month ago. Well we just encountered the same scenario with Southwest last week. We (group of 20) were flying to FLL for our Destiny cruise. A few of the guys in our group are pushing 300 so I was worried going in. Sure enough they refused to let one of the guys board. This young man (21) was a friend of my son's and this was the first vacation of his life. They held him at the gate and refused to let him board. They told me and the rest of the group that we had to board. I refused to leave him alone & pleaded with them to let him fly. I tried to explain that we would be willing to sit next to him so if he was inconveniencing anyone next to him it would be us. She still refused and said he couldn't board unless he bought a second seat. The problem was that the flight was completely full. They were waiting on us to taxi out. They ended up getting a woman to volunteer to give up her seat so he could fly with us. They asked how much we paid for his ticket. I bought the tickets way early and only paid $79. The stewardess just randomly said ok we're going to charge you $114 plus tax. It was all very embarassing for this young man and I feel Southwest could've handled it differently. Why not flag him when he checked in? Why wait until he gets to the gate and then hold up the flight? It also seems to be subjective to the eye of the beholder. Meaning that this stewardess looked at him and said, "no he's too heavy so he can't board". I'm not arguing that he's overweight but the policy of charging for a 2nd seat and refusing to let him board is very subjective. Case in point: My son and this group of friends flew home on Continental. This same boy that Southwest refused to let board, flew on Continental in one seat with no problem. No questions asked...

[vital1]

I'm saying this in the most unoffensive way I know how to say it.

 

I think they should have seats the size of the actual airline seats in a private room when people check in (or buy tickets) for people of questionable size to sit in and see if they fit comfortably. This would alleviate the guessing about size. There are size measuring bins for carry-on's, why not passengers?

 

Again, I don't mean this to sound insensitive, but I guess it will to many people. I just think this would stop the arguments and embarrassment of people having to be told to buy another ticket in public.

[StrangeBrew]

That is just wrong to subject someone to that kind of treatment , I'm sure he is aware of his predicament but to do what they did ,, WRONG .

 

I hope all else went well for him and that he can let this go .

 

Had to edit , I agree with Vital on this , great idea .

[chadci]

Roughly one year ago I weighed 372, flew 4 times on Southwest and never had issue 1.. even had to use seat belt extensions. I currently weigh about 235 so I'm not worried about it. I am curious at what point they make it an issue, though. We all heard about Kevin Smith and other stories. My bride to be is plus sized, weighs about the same but she is shorter than I ( 6'3 vs 5'6). I would hate to have something like that ruin our honeymoon.

[PaulMedik]

imluvncruzn,

 

While I do not agree with airlines charging extra for the first bag, I do agree with charging extra for passengers who do not fit in one seat.

 

I'm not sure of how they could handle the scenario well. They have luggage templates that determine max size for bags, but every flight I've been on I have seen passengers cram bags that were way to large in overhead bins. Given the multitude of human sizes and shapes, I'm not sure a human template would work at all.

 

You mentioned you were 'worried going in.' I take that to mean you were aware you were likely to have problems getting the larger folks on board the plane? How would you suggest the measurements should have been made?

[boaterette]

Maybe they should ask for height and weight measurements when you book the ticket. That way they can charge you for two seats when you book. The airlines can come up with formulas to know which ones are too big for one seat.

[Kcarp]

A few of the guys in our group are pushing 300 so I was worried going in.

So why you didn't call SW in advance to get more details and save him some embarrassment?

[paul929207]

If you were worried going in, had you asked when you purchased the tickets?

[Fourseventeen]

I think Vital1 has a great idea. They have it for carry on so why not for walk on too :D

 

No offense to those who are a little larger then average but I do think the airlines have the right to charge for a 2nd seat should someone not be able to fit into a single seat without intruding into their neighbors seat. Me personally...I would be upset if I paid my fee for MY seat and I got on and had someone in my space. When I get on that plane I want to relax and if at all possible sleep...now if some stranger is up against me I would be annoyed. I think most people know if they are overweight and know they should buy a 2nd seat when they are booking their flight to save themselves the embarassment of dealing with it at the gate. But MOST people think they have a chance to save the money and will see if they can walk on anyway. I have seen people getting stopped at the gate before as well...one lady was pissed and started yelling at the counter agents. Gotta remember the counter agents are just following the policy of that airline. I am sure the policy is in place for weight on the plane issues just like baggage weight...if your bags weigh more then 50lbs your paying extra. So if you weigh more then 300lbs you too are paying extra.

[imluvncruzn]

imluvncruzn,

 

While I do not agree with airlines charging extra for the first bag, I do agree with charging extra for passengers who do not fit in one seat.

 

I'm not sure of how they could handle the scenario well. They have luggage templates that determine max size for bags, but every flight I've been on I have seen passengers cram bags that were way to large in overhead bins. Given the multitude of human sizes and shapes, I'm not sure a human template would work at all.

 

You mentioned you were 'worried going in.' I take that to mean you were aware you were likely to have problems getting the larger folks on board the plane? How would you suggest the measurements should have been made?

 

I'm not arguing that they were overweight. I just think that it is subjective. What I may think is extremely overweight may not be seen as extremely overweight to you and vice versa. Obviously the folks at Continental didn't think it was an issue. I'm not sure what the answer is...but they certainly could've flagged him when he was checking in and talked to him sooner instead of waiting until he was boarding and holding up the plane.

[imluvncruzn]

So why you didn't call SW in advance to get more details and save him some embarrassment?

 

I did. The very day that I saw the story on CNN. The SW Rep said if they can get the armrests down and not hang over into the aisle that he would be fine. Like I said, he fit fine in the seat on the Continental flight so it's all in the eye of the beholder.

[Kcarp]

I did. The very day that I saw the story on CNN. The SW Rep said if they can get the armrests down and not hang over into the aisle that he would be fine. Like I said, he fit fine in the seat on the Continental flight so it's all in the eye of the beholder.

SW flagged him with out checking to see if he could fit in the seat?

[imluvncruzn]

SW flagged him with out checking to see if he could fit in the seat?

 

Yes. He didn't even get past the boarding gate.

[Kcarp]

Yes. He didn't even get past the boarding gate.

That's just wrong.

[chadci]

That's just wrong.

 

Here is their policy. It looks like he should have been allowed to try the seat.

 

http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html

[PaulMedik]

I'm not arguing that they were overweight. I just think that it is subjective. What I may think is extremely overweight may not be seen as extremely overweight to you and vice versa. Obviously the folks at Continental didn't think it was an issue. I'm not sure what the answer is...but they certainly could've flagged him when he was checking in and talked to him sooner instead of waiting until he was boarding and holding up the plane.

 

imluvncruzn,

 

I agree it is subjective. Having an area in the terminal with sample seats would be a good thing to have and I know I've seen sample seats set up in terminals before, but those were advertisements.

 

The best answer would be for airlines to install larger seats with more leg room, but that's not gonna happen.

[Raven Days]

I am very sorry that this happed. I can not imagine the pain and embarrassment it caused. I read SW's guidelines and the gate agent should have allowed the young man to enter the aircraft to see if the arm rests would lower past his girth. If so the matter should have ended there. If not then he would have been obligated to purchase another seat. I am a over weight woman but I do fit in the seats on SW, AA, Air Tran, Frontier and a slew of other airlines with no issue. With that said, I would not like it if the person sitting next to me were to take up some of my seating. This is a sensitive issue not only for the passenger but for the gate agents as well. Can you imagine how the gate agent felt having to tell this young man he couldn't board because he was over weight? I would never like to be put into either situation.

[Fattony]

"Overweight" is not subjective. There are standard medical measurements to label one as obese. There are certainly some cases where a medical situation causes one to be obese, and they have little option (no matter how they eat, etc.). But there are also many more cases where obesity is due to overeating and lack of exercise, and that is a usually (not always) at least partly a matter of choice. Certainly can't say which is the case for any one individual. But it's costing us millions in everything from higher health care costs (e.g., from skyrocketing rates of diabetes) to higher fuel costs and seating problems in seating on planes that were designed for people who weigh less than Americans tend to now. How much is each us wiling to pay to accommodate additional weight of passengers (we know baggage weight is a factor already), and to pay to fly on planes with fewer, but larger seats (airlines, which are losing money, would jack up the fares pp if the number of seats is reduced), or are willing to have even less space for ourselves because someone who is extremely large is in the seat next to us? Before we lay all of the blame on the heartless airlines, less look at ourselves, and also say what we'd be willing to sacrifice, not just what we want the airlines to sacrifice, in order to accommodate obese passengers without assessing penalties. To simply say "let's continue on as we always have" may not work. That's harsh reality.

[scottbee]

When an aircraft flies, all of the weights of everything on board is used to calculate things like takeoff run (is there enough runway), takeoff & flap speeds etc etc, and total range of the aircraft (more passenger cargo weight = less fuel). Having multiple people who are well over the 'standard' weight, can make a big difference, and in the case of westbound flights, sometimes the difference between going non-stop and having to put in for extra fuel (talk to people who fly from SEA and YVR to Hawaii on 737s over the winter how many times they put into Norther California for extra fuel, or Europe -> USA flights on 757s for that matter)

 

If a passenger boards weighing nearly twice the standard weight, that's essentially one less passenger that can be carried, no matter how that person is accommodated, it's a pure weight thing.

 

After a recent aircraft crash investigation Transport Canada has actually changed their 'standard' weights (which used to be 178/188lbs summer/winter IIRC) to 200/206lbs.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/tcss/tsb-ss/air/2004/a04h0001/A04H0001_p2.htm

[nrdsb4]

Height/weight ratios aren't always accurate in terms of predicting a person's size. If you are very muscular, you could show up as very overweight according to the charts. And some people just carry their weight differently than others. I got report on a patient once that was reported to be a 380 lb. female. I arranged for a larger bed to be brought to the room (at additional expense to the patient also). When she got to the unit, I was amazed at how much smaller she appeared to be vs. her scale weight. I was mortified when she got to her room. She didn't appear to be any heavier than 230-250 lbs. I had to replace her expensive bed with the standard bed-I felt bad for her as I believed her to be pretty embarrassed by the whole thing.

 

I think if there is any doubt there should be the opportunity for the passenger to sit in a seat and evaluate whether or not they will encroach on another passenger's space rather than going by some arbitrary weight/height ratio or the gate agent's ability to properly eyeball a problem.

[buckirj1]

It's a crapshoot nowadays. I truly believe some gate attendants and flight attendants on all airlines think they're Rambo, and don't follow their own rules. And that's once you get past the TSA folks. They all have difficult and stressful jobs, so it's no wonder they often do things that make no sense to us normal folks. I think the best solution is to just buy the extra seat if there's any doubt at all. I do, and have never run into a problem.

 

Well, there was the one time on Southwest when an Entitlement Mom wanted to put her unpaid-for lapbrat into my extra seat. Knowing what the Entitlement Moms are like, I told Fertilla the kid would be welcome to sit in my seat as soon as she reimbured me the $$ paid for my seat. Naturally, she got all huffy and left the row, muttering about the rude fat lady. It always amuses me how they equate being put into their place with rudeness. Didn't want that li'l germ vector near me, anyway. A very nice man wound up at the window seat, and we used my middle seat to store our junk. Victory all around!

[kenish]

Sorry that happened. Scottbee's comment about operational limits on the aircraft may have played a role. According to OP there were quite a few large people in the group, and there may have been others not in the group. Also, the flight was full and it sounds like OP's group may have been towards the back of the boarding line.

 

It's possible dispatch (who calculates aircraft loading, fuel, etc) may have notified the crew they were near the weight limit and as the cabin crew kept tabs as passengers boarded. It also sounds like they were running against the scheduled push-back time and were making snap decisions.

 

Since OP volunteered to sit next to the friend and absorb any discomfort that also suggests flight operations and not passenger comfort was the issue.

 

That said, it sounds like the airline could have handled it better. Southwest is pretty responsive to customers and you will probably get a personalized response and not a form letter. Contact them and let us know how they respond.

[imluvncruzn]

Hi again. I just wanted to say that I agree with the posters that have said they don't want someone impeding their comfort by spilling over into their seats. I don't disagree that if he did not meet their guidelines than he should have to buy a second seat. My issue is that he didn't even get to try the seat and that I wish they would've notified him when he checked in not when we were at the gate. Yes, he was embarrassed and scared. Like I said this was his first vacation ever. But having said that, he went on to have a great cruise and an uneventful flight home on Continental. So I guess going forward, he'll know to buy a second seat if he ever flies SWA again. I just thought I'd share this story on these boards to maybe save someone else the same embarrassment and difficulty.

[waterbug123]

"Overweight" is not subjective. There are standard medical measurements to label one as obese. .

 

A person can fit the medical definition of "obese" without being so large that they cannot fit in a standard airplane seat.

[PennyAgain]

I used to work with a guy who was one of the nicest people in the world. As time passed he got larger and larger. Travel for him became a nightmare as he never knew what would happen when he tried to board an airplane. Also people seated around him were often far from polite in what they said to him.

 

The company wouldn't buy him an extra seat and he couldn't afford to do it on a regular basis. When we flew together or if there were several of us, we made sure we were all seated together so we could get him fixed up the best we could.

 

But the stress of trying to fly made him sick and he had to give up traveling. That was the end of his job. He has been on an economic downturn ever since. I truly believe that if people had just been polite to him, he would have been able to continue traveling and to keep his job.

 

I agree with the idea of having seats for people to try in private to avoid hurting feelings. Let's be as nice to each other as we can be, please!