Gratuities/Tips or Commission/Subsidies!! which is it??

[Dorset Cruiser]

It is not nice when some assume that making arguments against the current so called tips you are also witholding them and screwing or stiffing (presumably a us term meaning the same thing) the staff.

I would never make a general statement that all who support the present system get a kick out of feeling superior to the menial staff on board but suspect some do.

 

 

Exactly - I don't like the hotel charge system Princess has in place but I go along with it. I would rather they add the charge to the cruise price to give a transparent cost for the cruise and then I can decide whether or not I can afford to take that cruise. If I did, I could then decide who I would like to tip in the normal way, ie. if someone gives me service over and above that which is expected for the not inconsiderable cruise price I will have paid. I don't care whether or not these tips are expected, they will only be handed out if I consider I have had exceptional service.

[luddite]

Actually by a Mancunian in exile, some very nice people in Liverpool including my wife to be.

 

Lighten up a bit, if you choose a user name such as Luddite you are bound to get a few comments:D

 

:D

As a Luddite, who is playing on a computer, I must remain 'lightened' up.

[luddite]

Well, considering that the cruise lines set the rate of commission that they pay I do not think this would matter in the slightest. They can simply reduce the percentage of commission by the same proportion that they increase the fare.

 

Or perhaps you refer to some other concept that "cheapskates" cannot grasp?

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

?????

How would they do that?

[luddite]

Just what does my cruise fare pay for:confused: I have just paid Princess £2084 for seven days on an Alaskan cruise for two people (cruise only) and I am also expected to pay a proportion of the crew's wages and not question it because they deserve it (and may be they do). I should point out we always leave the autotips on but we don't have to like the system:(

 

Not to be indelicate....

It would seem that you are not able to comprehend that customers pay employees. Customers also pay taxes and fees. The company does not pay these. The customer does.

Part of the problem with the world's economy is that too many people do not understand this.

 

Again, the company doesn't pay the employees. Customers pay their salary. The company just distributes the money. If you take the DSC (which isn't a tip, it's the guys pay) and add it to the price of the ticket, the company will then have taxes and fees to apply to that DSC. Assume DSC of 10$ a day. Now, with the taxes and fees applied, it could easily hit 15$ a day. Clearly, you are better off with the system as it is.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Not to be indelicate....

It would seem that you are not able to comprehend that customers pay employees. Customers also pay taxes and fees. The company does not pay these. The customer does.

Part of the problem with the world's economy is that too many people do not understand this.

 

Again, the company doesn't pay the employees. Customers pay their salary. The company just distributes the money. If you take the DSC (which isn't a tip, it's the guys pay) and add it to the price of the ticket, the company will then have taxes and fees to apply to that DSC. Assume DSC of 10$ a day. Now, with the taxes and fees applied, it could easily hit 15$ a day. Clearly, you are better off with the system as it is.

 

 

:confused::confused::confused:

 

Well I must be thick. I supposed, in my naievety that I paid Princess over £2000 and for that I expected someone to cook my meals, serve my drinks, make my bed, clean my bathroom, otherwise I might just as well have taken a trip over to the continent on a car ferry and had a self-catering flat for a week:rolleyes:

[David&Heather]

Presume by DSC you mean discretionary service charge? If so you should not criticise those who remove it as it is at their discretion and who are you to dictate to others how they make their decision on how much to pay or to pay at all?

 

What you actually appear to believe in if I read your postings correctly is a compulsory service charge which is unavoidable and therefore should be part of the cruise fare.

 

If the above does not make much sense please look up discretionary in a dictionary.

[luddite]

Very harsh, coming from a ,,,,well, you know.

Anyway.

DSC. Daily Service Charge. That would be the, well, charge for service each day. That would make it not taxable via the company. Not charged a fee by the TA. And is considered part of the cruise fare, just not charged up front.

Yeah, it's kinda hard for some to get a grip on. Certainly, some TAs don't make mention of it and that's pretty dodgy.

I remember a posting from a while back....somebody told someone to man up and pay their bills. I can't remember the thread. It was pretty enlightening.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Very harsh, coming from a ,,,,well, you know.

Anyway.

DSC. Daily Service Charge. That would be the, well, charge for service each day. That would make it not taxable via the company. Not charged a fee by the TA. And is considered part of the cruise fare, just not charged up front.

Yeah, it's kinda hard for some to get a grip on. Certainly, some TAs don't make mention of it and that's pretty dodgy.

I remember a posting from a while back....somebody told someone to man up and pay their bills. I can't remember the thread. It was pretty enlightening.

 

Just because Princess impose a discretionary service charge that does not mean it is the right way to go about paying their staff. In fact Princess call it a 'hotel charge' and not a 'service charge' so I presume that it is not for 'service' but for the 'hotel' aspect of the cruise. They advertise a cruise for a certain price and in the small print somewhere in the brochure they say that they will charge a discretionary hotel charge daily and that this can be increased, decreased or removed altogether - that is why it is a discretionary hotel charge.

 

You seem to be very fond of giving people half of the story as in "somebody told someone to man up and pay their bills. I can't remember the thread. It was pretty enlightening":confused:

[Pochahontas]

I am sorry you don't like the example. My point is simply don't expect the tips/gratuities/service charge to just go away without having to pay for it anyway. The point that most people make that giving the tip makes a big difference in the service is just plain BS. Obviously there are many cruise lines that have no tipping policies and that doesn't effect the service that much anyway.

 

Ok I challenged you on your poor use of Azamara, and I accept that you were referring to posts prior to mine saying that the grats will not go away (where this is I cannot find it.)................ still trying to find said posts referring to gratuities/hotel charge/tips being included will not make the fair go up..................................... Still hunting.............. Nope! cannot find it, so in effect you whipped yet another bogus statement up out of thin air and present it as fact?????? makes no sense at all! :eek:

 

 

 

 

If the TA's are suggesting removing it its because of either their own ignorance or their own cultural bias....clearly not an educated reason.

So your making a cultural bias based on how your country perceives gratuities/hotel charge/tips? and because TA's are telling customers that this Gratuities/Hotel Charge/Tip is discretionary they are ill educated?:rolleyes: say that in my country and dont be suprised if your linched for such a racist ill educated response

 

 

 

In most cases if you remove the auto tip and give cash the cruise line requires that all the money be turned into the pool or the tipping out that is required(the waiters tip out the dishwashers and the line chiefs-and sometimes the head waiter/maitre d- and the room stewards tip out the laundry and the supply room and the asst head housekeeper) makes it actually more difficult for them. They are trained just to thank you but as I said a fairly significant group leaves less for no service justified reason. So be careful what you wish for- you will imo pay more for the priviledge of not tipping.

 

I am not even going to argue the point on how the charges are dished out to staff, no where apart from on these boards have I heard such a load of *x$3£ks in my life. Go search out the Seafarers Union, and see just how many cargo ships are exploiting third world countries for cheap labour - then go to the cruise line part and show me any of the cruises that are in a forum on these boards that DO NOT have a sea farers Union inspect them and lay down basic terms and conditions of employment. In fact these third world countrys are falling over themselves trying to get into the cruising industry because they are so well paid in terms of how they are paid in there home countries. But that is another subject matter entirely.

 

 

The underlined part of your post has absolutely nothing to do with anything I posted so I object to you interjecting this as a response to me. I however have inserted in red my response to you on the said unlined part.

 

Thanks.

[luddite]

Wow! It does seem as though a LOT of fellows from the UK have a real problem with using the system that all of the regular mass-market cruise lines are using. This a sorta strange. It makes no sense to think that ALL of the pax from the UK don't like the system. Well, OK, I know that's not true. I know some guys from the UK. They have no problems with it.

Is it just you guys here? I guess you probably wouldn't be happy if thay hanged you with a new rope.

If the system is such a big problem, wouldn't you be better off just staying at home and getting hammered? It would certainly be a lot cheaper for you (not that THAT would be an issue, I'm just sayin....).

I realize that there would be nothing new to carp about, but that shouldn't be a deal-breaker now, should it?

[David&Heather]

Wow! It does seem as though a LOT of fellows from the UK have a real problem with using the system that all of the regular mass-market cruise lines are using. This a sorta strange. It makes no sense to think that ALL of the pax from the UK don't like the system. Well, OK, I know that's not true. I know some guys from the UK. They have no problems with it.

Is it just you guys here? I guess you probably wouldn't be happy if thay hanged you with a new rope.

If the system is such a big problem, wouldn't you be better off just staying at home and getting hammered? It would certainly be a lot cheaper for you (not that THAT would be an issue, I'm just sayin....).

I realize that there would be nothing new to carp about, but that shouldn't be a deal-breaker now, should it?

 

It is you that appears to have a big problem, some of your fellow countrymen dont care for the system either.

Also dont forget the mainstream US lines are expanding into Europe and to do so will have to make subtle changes, I predict fares inclusive of basic tipping and billing in Euros within 5 years.

I also remember the first McDonnalds restraunts in the UK and they tried the same products offered in the US, they tried to sell us root beer and persisted with it for a while but it did not suit the UK taste so eventually they stopped selling it and offered beverages more suited to the UK market.

The cruise lines will do just the same and modify their product slightly to suit the local market whatever luddites such as yourself say.

 

Your postings have become increasingly nasty and intolerant perhaps you should try to calm down and consider the opinions of others before making your next post.

[luddite]

It is you that appears to have a big problem, some of your fellow countrymen dont care for the system either.

Also dont forget the mainstream US lines are expanding into Europe and to do so will have to make subtle changes, I predict fares inclusive of basic tipping and billing in Euros within 5 years.

I also remember the first McDonnalds restraunts in the UK and they tried the same products offered in the US, they tried to sell us root beer and persisted with it for a while but it did not suit the UK taste so eventually they stopped selling it and offered beverages more suited to the UK market.

The cruise lines will do just the same and modify their product slightly to suit the local market whatever luddites such as yourself say.

 

Your postings have become increasingly nasty and intolerant perhaps you should try to calm down and consider the opinions of others before making your next post.

 

 

Without a doubt, some of my countryman don't care for the system. It isn't going to change anytime soon, despite your predictions.

It is important that you take a note. There is ONE US flagged cruise SHIP. All of the others are flagged somewhere else. Those ships will expand into any market that will support them. I seriously doubt that there will be more ships in Europe than in the Caribbean. Ever.

 

McDonald's? Seriously? You eat there?

Idle curiousity has gotten the better of me. What did they replace root beer with?

 

Be assured, the cruise lines will adjust their product to local markets. I have it on good authority that the cruise lines are run by business men and women. That kinda seals the deal for them making business decisions.

 

My posts on this thread haven't really been nasty nor intolerant. I could do that, of course. I really have no patience for fools and doofuses, but even that isn't germane here.

Ooop. Gotta go. My roses need tending.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Wow! It does seem as though a LOT of fellows from the UK have a real problem with using the system that all of the regular mass-market cruise lines are using. This a sorta strange. It makes no sense to think that ALL of the pax from the UK don't like the system. Well, OK, I know that's not true. I know some guys from the UK. They have no problems with it.

Is it just you guys here? I guess you probably wouldn't be happy if thay hanged you with a new rope.

If the system is such a big problem, wouldn't you be better off just staying at home and getting hammered? It would certainly be a lot cheaper for you (not that THAT would be an issue, I'm just sayin....).

I realize that there would be nothing new to carp about, but that shouldn't be a deal-breaker now, should it?

 

 

You have some really strange ideas and a very strange way of expressing yourself. Is it always 'your way or the high way'?. Is no-one allowed to express an opinion, if it is not to your liking?

 

You really are very insulting to people from the UK. Most UK cruise passengers, I would imagine, go along with the system but we do not all have to like it and if you don't like the fact that we do not agree with it, then that is your problem, not ours. Last time I looked we lived in a free country and we can express ourselves just however we like. If you do have a problem with this, then don't read the threads that we are posting to.

 

By the way, who and how many, are the 'guys you know from the UK'. You know those ones that have no problem with the system.

 

I believe that the cruise lines will come into line with the thinking in the UK and Europe (it is a massive market that they want to get a hold of) and adjust their 'tipping' policies for those markets. I, for one, favour a compulsory service charge so we have transparency and know exactly what we are paying for, at the point of sale. I would also love it if the cruiselines would bring EVERYONE into line and go for non-refundable deposits for EVERYONE and no price reductions for ANYONE after a cruise has been booked and the deposit paid.

 

You truly are very well named - we got rid of our Luddites years ago - if only we could do the same with you:(

[navybankerteacher]

Many people find many things they do not like about cruise lines. I would like it if no one was permitted to smoke on a ship. I would like it if lines published, and then enforced, dress codes. I would like it if lines cancelled premium restaurants and upgraded main dining rooms. All of us have things we like and dislike about cruise lines - some involve the lines' decisions on crew compensation.

 

The answer is to either accept the terms offered by a line or to "shop" elsewhere. If enough potential passengers "vote with their feet" and flee lines whose compensation (or other) policies they find offensive, the lines will change. What is tiresome is the notion of people from one culture continually ranting about a compensation policy with which they do not agree. Crews are not conscripted, they accept the terms offered by their employers; anyone is entitled to think that they know better than the employers or employees ---but, frankly, it is simple cultural arrogance to continually express it.

[Doug R.]

I am also of the opinion that some who support the present system get some sort of kick out of feeling superior to those that they are tipping, more than a little sad and worrying IMHO.

 

I am sure the usual 'pro tipping' mob will shout this thread down again but this is after all a discussion forum whare opinions should be shared and discussed freely.

 

The assertation of a feeling of superiority on the part of those who accept the tipping convention as it is, is as vile and baseless as the asseration that all Brits and Aussies are cheap because they don't like to tip. We simply accept the tipping convention, it does not mean that we like it. It would be far easier if fares were inclusive of tipping. I think autotip to be an easy way to rid oneselves of what I consider the burdensome task of figuring out tips and handing out the envelopes. Those who prefer handing out envelopes at the end and oppose the autotip are probably the ones, if there are any, that get a warm feeling of superiority as they hand out the envelopes to the staff.

 

The "pro-tipping mob" shouting you down?????????? Please spare me the melodrama!!! Since when is discussion "shouting down"? Then again, since you are so convinced that you have the only correct position on tipping you consider anyone who has the effrontery to disagree with you as violating your right to have the only correct opinion.

 

Guess what????? Disagreement is lifeblood of discussion.

[hubofhockey]

If the British passengers want to remove auto-tips or not tip altogether, that is their business. However, I don't understand why people refuse to accept or live by customs in another country or on a ship. If I were a passenger on a British line where it was not customary to tip, I might tip very little for superb service but not the $11 per day that I'll tip on Princess. In the same respect, I would think that British passengers on an American cruiseline WOULD tip the standard per the cruiseline practice. Do you British people also stiff waiters when you're in the US? I can see the waiters either cringing or running when they hear the British accents. :D

 

Oh, for what it's worth, I tip as a way to provide thanks to people in the service industry. It has nothing to do with feeling superior. That's a new one.

[Pochahontas]

If the British passengers want to remove auto-tips or not tip altogether, that is their business. However, I don't understand why people refuse to accept or live by customs in another country or on a ship. If I were a passenger on a British line where it was not customary to tip, I might tip very little for superb service but not the $11 per day that I'll tip on Princess. In the same respect, I would think that British passengers on an American cruiseline WOULD tip the standard per the cruiseline practice. Do you British people also stiff waiters when you're in the US? I can see the waiters either cringing or running when they hear the British accents. :D

 

Oh, for what it's worth, I tip as a way to provide thanks to people in the service industry. It has nothing to do with feeling superior. That's a new one.

 

Please note the thread starter's original post. This thread degraded into an 'us and them' culture clash - to blatant racism. What I personally do not get is this presumption that the gratuities/hotel charge/tip is compulsory. When people are told its "discretionary" In fact I would go further to say that in the small print it explains that the charge is "discretionary" and then slated for daring to open there gobs to ask on these boards opinions on the level that should be given if any - they get slaughtered each and every time.

 

Even if it is with out foundation are immediately put into the category of being "cheapskates" to 'stiffers' to the classic of "when in Rome" well excuse me but the ships I have sailed on hoisted the Bermudan flag registerd in "Hamilton" thus a British territory sold in the UK as a UK company - thus the confusion begins.

 

Just because the on board currency is in $ does not mean its an American thigh slapping all American ship - absolute rubbish. Cruise lines are targeting European markets. Its a case of I spell "realise" this way, you spell it "realize" no confusion for those that actually realise the difference and a countries obligation to tipping in a discretionary way.

 

Aside from that I am patriotic and will defend my country and what it stands for and will not be brow beaten by a few obnoxious posters on this forum.

 

 

 

I notice that a good percentage of the complainers' date=' about this subject, list quite a few past and future cruises, so I don’t think it is about affordability, and people from other cultures, than US and/or Canada, may be used to having 15 to 25 % added to their bill in restaurants or clubs, as a

[b']commission/service[/b] charge, anything above that is a gratuity/tip, and is voluntary.

 

Let’s look at the terminology!!

 

Gratuity/Tip, is given in appreciation and/or gratitude for some thing or service received, which is strictly voluntary, so any monies, that the cruise line adds onto your on board bill is neither!!

 

Subsidies/Commission, is more like what the cruise lines are adding on to your on board bill even though it is

voluntary, so if you wish to opt out of this

subsidy/commission, you’re actually diminishing the wages of crew members.

 

The income of crew members in the subsidies/commissions pool, is actually, wages + subsidy/commission, anything else, that they receive from passenger, is gratuities/tips.

 

I have traveled in both North America and Europe, and have experienced different methods on this subject, and this is the opinion, that I have formed.

 

I’m open to comments.

 

Cato :);)

[smeyer418]

The Custom of tipping on a cruise ship was started by a British citizen named Cunard(although he actually was born in Canada). Its too bad that you don't like the custom. There are customs in the UK I don't like(a hereditary monarch for one). Obviously you don't like people who disagree with you and resort to calling them racists when you do.... personal attacks are not allowed.

[Doug R.]

Please note the thread starter's original post. This thread degraded into an 'us and them' culture clash - to blatant racism. What I personally do not get is this presumption that the gratuities/hotel charge/tip is compulsory. When people are told its "discretionary" In fact I would go further to say that in the small print it explains that the charge is "discretionary" and then slated for daring to open there gobs to ask on these boards opinions on the level that should be given if any - they get slaughtered each and every time.

 

Even if it is with out foundation are immediately put into the category of being "cheapskates" to 'stiffers' to the classic of "when in Rome" well excuse me but the ships I have sailed on hoisted the Bermudan flag registerd in "Hamilton" thus a British territory sold in the UK as a UK company - thus the confusion begins.

 

Just because the on board currency is in $ does not mean its an American thigh slapping all American ship - absolute rubbish. Cruise lines are targeting European markets. Its a case of I spell "realise" this way, you spell it "realize" no confusion for those that actually realise the difference and a countries obligation to tipping in a discretionary way.

 

Aside from that I am patriotic and will defend my country and what it stands for and will not be brow beaten by a few obnoxious posters on this forum.

 

1. Please point out the blantant racism. As far as I can tell Brits, Yanks and Aussies are nationalities not races.

 

2. The Carnival Corporation and its subsidiares are based in the United States, the nation in which the ship is registered is irrelevant.

 

3. Please translate as it does not compute: "Just because the on board currency is in $ does not mean its an American thigh slapping all American ship - absolute rubbish."

[hubofhockey]

Please note the thread starter's original post. This thread degraded into an 'us and them' culture clash - to blatant racism. What I personally do not get is this presumption that the gratuities/hotel charge/tip is compulsory. When people are told its "discretionary" In fact I would go further to say that in the small print it explains that the charge is "discretionary" and then slated for daring to open there gobs to ask on these boards opinions on the level that should be given if any - they get slaughtered each and every time.

 

Even if it is with out foundation are immediately put into the category of being "cheapskates" to 'stiffers' to the classic of "when in Rome" well excuse me but the ships I have sailed on hoisted the Bermudan flag registerd in "Hamilton" thus a British territory sold in the UK as a UK company - thus the confusion begins.

 

Just because the on board currency is in $ does not mean its an American thigh slapping all American ship - absolute rubbish. Cruise lines are targeting European markets. Its a case of I spell "realise" this way, you spell it "realize" no confusion for those that actually realise the difference and a countries obligation to tipping in a discretionary way.

 

Aside from that I am patriotic and will defend my country and what it stands for and will not be brow beaten by a few obnoxious posters on this forum.

 

Being patriotic has nothing to do with accepting cutoms of host countries you visit or even cruiselines from a different country. If you want the discretionary $11/day gratuity removed, you have every right to do it. You also have every right to stiff waiters in restaurants in the US because that is YOUR custom. You are right about that. You don't have to accept the customs of host countries or cruise ships. I just don't understand your argument about what your country "stands for" when it comes to how you act as a guest in another country or on a cruiseline based in a different country. Oh, and there should be no confusion about Princess ships being "from Bermuda" because you know full well that Princess is an American company using a system of American currency.

[chrispb]

Being patriotic has nothing to do with accepting cutoms of host countries you visit or even cruiselines from a different country. If you want the discretionary $11/day gratuity removed, you have every right to do it. You also have every right to stiff waiters in restaurants in the US because that is YOUR custom. You are right about that. You don't have to accept the customs of host countries or cruise ships. I just don't understand your argument about what your country "stands for" when it comes to how you act as a guest in another country or on a cruiseline based in a different country. Oh, and there should be no confusion about Princess ships being "from Bermuda" because you know full well that Princess is an American company using a system of American currency.

 

The difference is that waiting staff in the UK are paid the minimum wage, while I understand in the US they're not covered by minimum wage regulations and are paid only around $2/3 an hour?? That's not only insane but cruel!

.

Oh,and we're not so stupid as to tip in order to OBTAIN good service (like so many of your fellow countrymen do) - that's something we expect!

 

While many cruise ships operate out of the US they do sail to other countries too, far away from the US and your customs.

 

But you may not realise that as only around 20% of your fellow countrymen have passports:cool:

[smeyer418]

The difference is that waiting staff in the UK are paid the minimum wage, while I understand in the US they're not covered by minimum wage regulations and are paid only around $2/3 an hour?? That's not only insane but cruel!

.

Oh,and we're not so stupid as to tip in order to OBTAIN good service (like so many of your fellow countrymen do) - that's something we expect!

 

While many cruise ships operate out of the US they do sail to other countries too, far away from the US and your customs.

 

But you may not realise that as only around 20% of your fellow countrymen have passports:cool:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

 

Of course you also have national health care. Yes only 20% of the US has passports because we don't need them. I have one(with extra pages added) but we still make up more than 60% of the cruising public worldwide. In fact very few people get paid the minimum wage and most tipped workers prefer it that way....they make more. The law requires that for tipped workers the tips plus the hourly must = the $7 or so minimum wage....but as you can see actually very few workers actually just make the minimum wage.

[hubofhockey]

The difference is that waiting staff in the UK are paid the minimum wage, while I understand in the US they're not covered by minimum wage regulations and are paid only around $2/3 an hour?? That's not only insane but cruel!

.

Oh,and we're not so stupid as to tip in order to OBTAIN good service (like so many of your fellow countrymen do) - that's something we expect!

 

While many cruise ships operate out of the US they do sail to other countries too, far away from the US and your customs.

 

But you may not realise that as only around 20% of your fellow countrymen have passports:cool:

 

Of course, since you are now aware that waitstaff and cabin stewards depend on gratuities for compensation, you probably have no problem observing the custom of providing the standard $11 autotip. ;)

 

Nobody is suggesting that the gratuity is a payment made in order to get good service. It is expected after good service is provided. Nobody is calling you stupid. To be honest, I have never run into British people in the US who made an issue of this at US restaurants. But some British people on cruise ships (or at least on Cruise Critic) don't buy into the fact that Princess and other US based cruiselines operate under US customs and the lion's share use the US$ as currency. As I wrote earlier in the thread, if I ever cruise on a British based line, I will be sure to act according to the norm on that ship in terms of gratuities, attire, or anything else. If I weren't comfortable with any of it, I'd probably look for a US based or other line.

[happy cruzer]

Another thought, if the tips became part of the cruise fare then:

 

You would have higher travel insurance

You would have higher travel agency commissions

If you had any problem, and lost your cruise fare you would be out the tip amount as well.

 

And who would get the money in the cases of not makeing the crise??? The cruise line or the server on the ship??

 

Most people in the service industry that I know love tipping and don't want to receive only a hourly wage.

[chasetf]

The difference is that waiting staff in the UK are paid the minimum wage, while I understand in the US they're not covered by minimum wage regulations and are paid only around $2/3 an hour?? That's not only insane but cruel!

With the tipping system in the US most good service people exceed the minimum wage by a great deal. They make so much the IRS targets them for audit because many are under reporting.

Oh,and we're not so stupid as to tip in order to OBTAIN good service (like so many of your fellow countrymen do) - that's something we expect!

So I guess you are calling those that tip stupid. :mad: :rolleyes:

While many cruise ships operate out of the US they do sail to other countries too, far away from the US and your customs.

The cruise lines have to pick a custom from somewhere. Guess they didn't pick yours. :rolleyes:

But you may not realise that as only around 20% of your fellow countrymen have passports:cool:

So that means there are over 60 million Americans with passports.;) That is 20 times the population of your country and about the population of Great Britian. :cool: