Murder on NCL Jade?

[lawgeek]

Indeed it is not, so let me break it down for you: loosely paraphrased, Occam's Razor means that the simplest explanation is usually the accurate one.

 

Which explanation is simpler?

 

1) In contravention of international law, maritime law and/or the laws of the country in which the alleged murder took place if not in international waters (and in direct contrast to both the legal and typical social ramifications of similar incidents on other ships, i.e., the Royal Caribbean "honeymoon disappearance" of a few years back), the cruise line manages to avoid all investigation of the alleged murder and resultant press coverage.

 

Meanwhile, although multiple passengers claim to have firsthand and/or secondhand knowledge of the alleged murder, and such a murder and subsequent coverup could not have occurred without numerous crew members being aware of it and sharing information with other people both on and off the ship (absent a wholesale terrorizing or successful bribery of large numbers of passengers and crew by the cruise line), absolutely no media can be found to take an interest in their stories.

 

2) It didn't happen.

 

On the other hand, someone quite possibly died on the cruise, providing the kernel of truth from which most of these stories tend to spin wildly out of control and rationality. But that's hardly as thrilling, is it?

 

Swell explanation. Had I approached this in a conclusory tone, stating that the incident I was informed of was indeed factual, this principle may apply. Occam's Razor is typically referred to in the context of scientific theory and how it should be apporoached. I, however, have not proposed any theory or conclusion as to the veracity of what i was informed of. I simply asked if any others who read this board had any information regarding whether or not these statements were true. At this time i have not made any conclusions regarding the statements.

 

Unfortunately, I have, with one exception, received no useful information from the responding posters. Instead, I get responses like yours that attempt self gratification by pontificating on useless issues. You are obviously satisfied that since there have been no news reports this could not have happened. I don't live in a world where conclusory statements such as that are acceptable. I must approach such issues skeptcal of all conclusions, no matter how convenient they may be.

 

In all honesty, I could give a rat's behind as to how this turns out. I simply was seeking information from others who may be informed as to what might have happened on this cruise (if anything). Unfortunately, in typical cruise critic form, I must wade through a series of useless posts like your own to find the few who may actually be responsive to my original post and query.

[lawgeek]

Were you spending some time in Naples after your cruise or was it while you were in port on your cruise?

 

 

I was in port on my own cruise...not on the Jade.

[dockrocker]

Unfortunately, in typical cruise critic form, I must wade through a series of useless posts like your own to find the few who may actually be responsive to my original post and query.

 

And I can understand your frustration, since we've established that determining the relative value/credibility of one piece of information or source as compared to another is a skill you haven't yet begun to acquire. Well, keep at it. The rewards are worth it.

[lawgeek]

Many types of corporate and financial malfeasance are successfully covered up. Murder on a crowded ship -- not so much.

 

I am cracking up at the *two* posters who *just happened by* CruiseCritic today and created twin accounts for the sole purpose of "verifying" the OP's story. We are now being asked to believe that despite the Italian police and coroner being involved, NCL managed to keep all mention of this "murder" out of the international press. Right.

 

If the new poster is telling the truth, then someone died on the ship. That does, in fact, happen not infrequently. Jumping from that fact to a passenger murdering his wife...slitting her throat...AND she was pregnant...oh, my! Her ghost will be walking the ship next. In fact, I'm a passenger on this week's cruise and I can personally verify that I hear her wailing down the corridors of my deck at 3 in the morning.

 

If you are suggesting that I personally created accounts to answer my own post, you really need to get a life. As i have previously stated, I could care less how this turns out. Furthermore, I would not have made two contradictory posts such as these. I have no stake in this at all. I have never sailed NCL, have nothing against the line and know very little about it.

 

As for news agencies finding out about this, they must be informed by someone to report it. In the US, beat reporters follow police crime blotters to uncover newsworthy stories. Otherwise, someone would have to contact them with information to get the jump on a story.

 

In italy, I have no idea if such information is public knowledge. If no one has reported to a news agency that his has occurred, there is little doubt that news would not be immediately available, particularly if the Italian authoriytties do not make such information available. Furthermore, this allegedly only happend four days ago and the ship has only recently returned. If there was indeed a crime, time will tell whether or not the story reaches the press.

[lawgeek]

And I can understand your frustration, since we've established that determining the relative value/credibility of one piece of information or source as compared to another is a skill you haven't yet begun to acquire. Well, keep at it. The rewards are worth it.

 

Unlike you, I have made no conclusions as to this topic as I lack sufficient facts to do so. Thus, my frustration only lies in the myopic view of yourself who can simply come to a conclusion without any sustainable facts being presented. If you call this a skill, I really see no further reason responding to your self edifying posts.

[dockrocker]

If you are suggesting that I personally created accounts to answer my own post, you really need to get a life. As i have previously stated, I could care [sic] less how this turns out.

 

Nope. It never occurred to me that it might be you -- those posts were fairly grammatical, mostly correctly spelled and well constructed. I do think the two are probably the same person, though. These stories attract morbidity junkies who thrive on the attention that the "I was there when the BLOOD STARTED RUNNING DOWN THE WALLS" junk creates.

 

In italy, I have no idea if such information is public knowledge.

 

It is. (It's pretty easy to find that out, BTW. The internet is your friend.)

[lawgeek]

Nope. It never occurred to me that it might be you -- those posts were fairly grammatical, mostly correctly spelled and well constructed. I do think the two are probably the same person, though. These stories attract morbidity junkies who thrive on the attention that the "I was there when the BLOOD STARTED RUNNING DOWN THE WALLS" junk creates.

 

 

 

It is. (It's pretty easy to find that out, BTW. The internet is your friend.)

 

Awesome deductory skills regarding the posts being made by the same person, given that they are wholly contradictory from a factual standpoint.

 

If you are so informed about Italian police reporting procedures in regards to the press (in particular Naples police) please enlighten me??? Also please cite the source of this knowledge.

 

I also note that since you can't respond to the gravamen of my statements, you resort to childish attacks on spelling and grammar. I can assure you that I have no reason to proof read these posts (particularly in response to your posts) and typos in emails and message boards are typically excusable in the modern world given the instant nature of the media.

[beekrock]

Hey, everyone. I just got home today from this cruise and the first thing I Googled was "Norwegian Jade Death" to see what people were saying and I found this thread. Apparently I'm the only one on this board who actually knows what happened on this cruise so I'll try to clear things up.

 

The return to Barcelona was due to a passenger/crew member (not sure which) that had a medical emergency that required immediate professional attention -- more professional than the Jade's med staff, that is. It was an Asian female and I watched her get taken off the ship and loaded into an ambulance. She was alive when I saw her, so I seriously doubt that she died on the way to the hospital. People die on cruise ships all the time, so for the ship to decide to turn around I think it was probably a stroke or embolism.

 

The delay in Rome was because of the death of a woman that died as a result of autoerotic asphyxiation by her husband. It was a husband, wife, and their two children (10ish and 12ish in age) that were sailing together with the children and parents having seperate rooms. The death was quickly determined by investigators to be "accidental strangulation". Since the line can sometimes be very blurry between an "accidental death", "manslaughter", and "murder" in these cases,the investigators were simply following protocol taping off the scene and taking pictures. The two kids and the husband were seen by many onboard crying hysterically as they gathered by the Coroner vehicle.

 

I had a loved one die a similar death and the circumstances of the manner of death make it even more confusing and harder to deal with. I can't imagine what those poor kids must be going through. You never expect something like this to happen, much less during such an incredible vacation.

[Micchi]

Whew. WTH was that? Directors of law school writing clinics across the English-speaking world are cringing.

 

Neverthless, I think I'm able to disentangle the general gist from the word salad.

 

Here are the facts:

 

1. Some total strangers in a pizzeria in Napoli told you that someone got murdered on their ship. They heard a "rumor" that it was a guy who offed his wife. They "seemed really sincere" when telling this story.

2. Despite days having passed, despite this sort of story being the bread and butter of the blood-and-guts-obsessed press, no mention of a cruise ship murder has appeared in the quite rapidly moving and technologically advanced international media. Nor has anyone visited the NCL threads to report having been on the ship and heard such a rumor...until today, following your post.

3. A couple of first-time posters created new accounts today and jumped on this thread in the past few hours to earnestly avow that they were on this ship and "something funny was going on."

 

Those are the facts. Do they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one was murdered that week on the Jade? Nope. Do they strongly suggest where the truth lies? Even a 1L at the bottom of his class can spot this obvious a chasm between the credibility of these stories and sources -- and frankly, I'm amused that someone claiming "a legal mind" would try to pretend that all pieces of information are identical in quality.

 

At this point, you're bulldogging a lost battle just because you're embarrassed. A reasoned tenacity will serve you in the practice of law. Blind obstreperousness will not.

 

Well said.

[lawgeek]

Whew. WTH was that? Directors of law school writing clinics across the English-speaking world are cringing.

 

Neverthless, I think I'm able to disentangle the general gist from the word salad.

 

Here are the facts:

 

1. Some total strangers in a pizzeria in Napoli told you that someone got murdered on their ship. They heard a "rumor" that it was a guy who offed his wife. They "seemed really sincere" when telling this story.

2. Despite days having passed, despite this sort of story being the bread and butter of the blood-and-guts-obsessed press, no mention of a cruise ship murder has appeared in the quite rapidly moving and technologically advanced international media. Nor has anyone visited the NCL threads to report having been on the ship and heard such a rumor...until today, following your post.

3. A couple of first-time posters created new accounts today and jumped on this thread in the past few hours to earnestly avow that they were on this ship and "something funny was going on."

 

Those are the facts. Do they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one was murdered that week on the Jade? Nope. Do they strongly suggest where the truth lies? Even a 1L at the bottom of his class can spot this obvious a chasm between the credibility of these stories and sources -- and frankly, I'm amused that someone claiming "a legal mind" would try to pretend that all pieces of information are identical in quality.

 

At this point, you're bulldogging a lost battle just because you're embarrassed. A reasoned tenacity will serve you in the practice of law. Blind obstreperousness will not.

 

Please stop trying to make yourself feel intelligent by misquoting my posts. The only "battle" I have been fighting here is to continually respond to your personal attacks which in no way relate to my orignal post or my intent in creating this thread.

 

I suspect your personal attacks are grounded in either in a deep hatred of lawyers or just your own complete insecurity in life. As a poker player, I would "put" you as a former correspondence law school student who could not pass a state bar, which has left you bitter and despondent. I base this on your failure to respond to any argument raised and constant personal attacks. FYI...such behaviour will never translate into success in any debate forum, let alone a courtroom. Whatever your situation, I simply could care less. You have wasted my too much of my time, as well as others who may read these posts.

 

I have reviewed the record and am certain that any readers will understand your intentions here have nothing to do with responding to the inquiry originally made nor any responses I have made to your personal attacks. Personally, I will ignore all further posts from you as I find them a toal waste of time.

[iheartbda]

Should be interesting to see if anyone has to eat crow on this one.;)

[Queen_Of_Natick]

Hey, everyone. I just got home today from this cruise and the first thing I Googled was "Norwegian Jade Death" to see what people were saying and I found this thread. Apparently I'm the only one on this board who actually knows what happened on this cruise so I'll try to clear things up.

 

The return to Barcelona was due to a passenger/crew member (not sure which) that had a medical emergency that required immediate professional attention -- more professional than the Jade's med staff, that is. It was an Asian female and I watched her get taken off the ship and loaded into an ambulance. She was alive when I saw her, so I seriously doubt that she died on the way to the hospital. People die on cruise ships all the time, so for the ship to decide to turn around I think it was probably a stroke or embolism.

 

The delay in Rome was because of the death of a woman that died as a result of autoerotic asphyxiation by her husband. It was a husband, wife, and their two children (10ish and 12ish in age) that were sailing together with the children and parents having seperate rooms. The death was quickly determined by investigators to be "accidental strangulation". Since the line can sometimes be very blurry between an "accidental death", "manslaughter", and "murder" in these cases,the investigators were simply following protocol taping off the scene and taking pictures. The two kids and the husband were seen by many onboard crying hysterically as they gathered by the Coroner vehicle.

 

I had a loved one die a similar death and the circumstances of the manner of death make it even more confusing and harder to deal with. I can't imagine what those poor kids must be going through. You never expect something like this to happen, much less during such an incredible vacation.

 

 

:eek: So how'd you find that out?? That is something else!

 

um... considering how the lady passed....well...you know....

 

-Q

[dockrocker]

:eek: So how'd you find that out?? That is something else!

 

um... considering how the lady passed....well...you know....

 

-Q

 

It was in the Freestyle Daily, under the "Everything's hotter when the sun goes down..." heading.

 

What? Too soon? ;)

 

Goodness, what a salacious tale. Breath play can walk such a fine line.

 

Thus does a death on board (if it was a death on board) spiral into "firsthand knowledge" of "murder." But of course, it's only been a few days, and those fellows watching the Italian "police blotters" might get around to reporting a murder in, say a month or two. ;)

[touchline]

While in Naples we were at a pizzeria and met a few couples sailing on the Jade. They told us that there had been a murder on the ship prior to arriving in Naples on 6/24/2010. The rumor was that a husband may have murdered his wife. I have been unable to verify this through news or other sources and was wondering if anyone on this board has heard anything. The same people also said that after departing Barcelona the ship had to turn around due to the death of a female bartender who died of natural causes. It all sounded like a very morbid cruise although the couples we talked to were enjoying the cruise.

I heard about the murder also. Can't find anything in local news.

[dockrocker]

Welcome, touchline! Thanks for joining us here on the CruiseCritic boards today!

[iheartbda]

Last Feb. there was a suicide reported on CC by a passenger on one of the HAL ships. Should people have not believed it since it did not make any of the news sources?

[elfree]

I was on the Jade from the 20th - 24th and I can confirm both stories are TRUE..

Regarding going back to Barcelona after first few hours a crew member confirmed to me that some female crew had some mental problem due to stress and captain decided to turn back and offload her.

 

Regarding the Murder I can confirm that its not a rumor at all. Together with a group of other 50 pax we were meant to dissembark in Rome on the 23th June. We had to meet at 8.00am in reception so we dissembark all together before the tours coaches. However by 9.00am we were still on board until a crew member came and took us in a quiet bar away from rest of passengers. We were informed that during the night a murder happend on board and that before leaving the ship the Italian police had to check our documents and question us individualy. They basically showed us a photo of a young woman around 30years old and asked us if we knew her or seen her.

 

Sad way to end a cruise but definately worse for her.. May she Rest In Peace!!

[Emmerdale]

We flew back last night from the Jade. The 1st we knew about the '"murder" was at Barcelona Airport a couple we were talking with, when they knew which ship we had been on asked us about the murder. We were very shocked but as we were told in Civitevechia that we could not go ashore till officials had arrived from Rome it made more sense. We were told it was a young American women who was murdered by her husband. Terrible.... What with the return to Barcelona for the sick passenger - a very unusual cruise...........

[dockrocker]

Welcome to Cruise Critic, new posters! Glad to have you with us!

[Micchi]

Welcome to Cruise Critic, new posters! Glad to have you with us!

 

Amazing how all of these passengers from this ONE sailing of this ONE ship seem to have found CC for the sole purpose of confirming this story, isn't it? :rolleyes:

[MrPete]

Amazing how all of these passengers from this ONE sailing of this ONE ship seem to have found CC for the sole purpose of confirming this story, isn't it? :rolleyes:

 

Past experience shows people usually join when they have something to say.

[dockrocker]

Amazing how all of these passengers from this ONE sailing of this ONE ship seem to have found CC for the sole purpose of confirming this story, isn't it? :rolleyes:

 

And the members of the existing roll call for the cruise are, interestingly, quiet.

 

It does sound as though there probably was a death on board, as I've said all along (and, no, it's not particularly unusual for people to die and/or have medical emergencies on board, particularly given the average age of cruisers). I'm getting a kick out of the new twist that an offloaded crew member was taken off because she was "mentally ill" -- a plain old illness or injury just wasn't sexy enough.

[dockrocker]

Past experience shows people usually join when they have something to say.

 

Sure. There are varying motivations for what they want to say, though. It will be interesting to see if any of the roll call regulars come by.

[dockrocker]

I'm still on the fences as to whether this is true, but one poster who confirmed has been a member since 2006 and elfee's only post prior to the one here was on the roll call for this cruise.

 

Basically, I think it's legitimate to still doubt this story since it's weird this hasn't made the news yet, but you can't lump in all the posters that are confirming it as one hit wonders either.

 

My bad on that -- didn't see elfree had been on a roll call. My apologies, elfree. Looks like there were at least a couple of roll calls for that cruise.

[Micchi]

And the members of the existing roll call for the cruise are, interestingly, quiet.

 

It does sound as though there probably was a death on board, as I've said all along (and, no, it's not particularly unusual for people to die and/or have medical emergencies on board, particularly given the average age of cruisers). I'm getting a kick out of the new twist that an offloaded crew member was taken off because she was "mentally ill" -- a plain old illness or injury just wasn't sexy enough.

 

I don't really doubt that someone died, but the inflated tales are quite funny. It's just not interesting enough that someone died... we have to make up stories about mentally ill crew members! Husbands slitting their *PREGNANT* wives' throats! Autoerotic asphyxiation! What's next - I'm waiting for the ghosts myself.