Murder on NCL Jade?

[RalphWiggum]

I'm still on the fences as to whether this is true, but one poster who confirmed has been a member since 2006 and elfee's only post prior to the one here was on the roll call for this cruise.

 

Basically, I think it's legitimate to still doubt this story since it's weird this hasn't made the news yet, but you can't lump in all the posters that are confirming it as one hit wonders either.

[MrPete]

Sure. There are varying motivations for what they want to say, though. It will be interesting to see if any of the roll call regulars come by.

 

I'm curious what your motivation is. :rolleyes:

[dockrocker]

I'm curious what your motivation is. :rolleyes:

 

All you had to do was ask. ;)

 

I have a major pet peeve with people who engage in digital games of Telephone, as we used to call it when we were kids. People throw their critical thinking skills out the window when a salacious or bloody story is involved, and the internet unfortunately makes it too easy to anonymously spread rumors among the ultra-credulous and the poorly informed. I spend way too much time deleting emails from well-meaning elderly relatives who fall for every patently outrageous political, public safety and/or celebrity rumor that gets generated (and yeah, I've tried to get off their lists -- they have just enough technical understanding to hit "send" but not enough to remove me from their mailing lists of melodrama. In extreme cases, I've blocked a few.)

 

I also moderate a board (not cruising related) containing many posts that would make you weep for the intellectual future of humanity. There simply isn't any story too outrageous for about 25 percent of the population to believe as long as it reflects badly on someone they don't like or appeals to the reptilian side of their brain.

 

The biggest problem with all this is that it goes way past private emails and cruising sites and the like, and becomes the basis for the more ethically challenged members of the mainstream media to make insinuations (the famed "some people say" construction that noticeably lacks citations). News then becomes a whisper campaign and the modern expectation for "journalism" becomes "we report all sides equally, no matter how unequal in credibility, and it's up to you to sort them out."

 

We all love a juicy dish, but man, when we hear one, it behooves us to ask specifically who or what the sources are, if those sources are fully cited, what the credibility of those sources seems to be, and ditto for the opposite point of view. If we can't find anything solid to support an attractive rumor, the implication is that the rumor just isn't supportable -- or, as in this case, that it's loosely based on a very small kernel of truth (a likely death on board).

[MrPete]

All you had to do was ask. ;)

 

I have a major pet peeve with people who engage in digital games of Telephone, as we used to call it when we were kids. People throw their critical thinking skills out the window when a salacious or bloody story is involved, and the internet unfortunately makes it too easy to anonymously spread rumors among the ultra-credulous and the poorly informed. I spend way too much time deleting emails from well-meaning elderly relatives who fall for every patently outrageous political, public safety and/or celebrity rumor that gets generated (and yeah, I've tried to get off their lists -- they have just enough technical understanding to hit "send" but not enough to remove me from their mailing lists of melodrama. In extreme cases, I've blocked a few.)

 

I also moderate a board (not cruising related) containing many posts that would make you weep for the intellectual future of humanity. There simply isn't any story too outrageous for about 25 percent of the population to believe as long as it reflects badly on someone they don't like or appeals to the reptilian side of their brain.

 

The biggest problem with all this is that it goes way past private emails and cruising sites and the like, and becomes the basis for the more ethically challenged members of the mainstream media to make insinuations (the famed "some people say" construction that noticeably lacks citations). News then becomes a whisper campaign and the modern expectation for "journalism" becomes "we report all sides equally, no matter how unequal in credibility, and it's up to you to sort them out."

 

We all love a juicy dish, but man, when we hear one, it behooves us to ask specifically who or what the sources are, if those sources are fully cited, what the credibility of those sources seems to be, and ditto for the opposite point of view. If we can't find anything solid to support an attractive rumor, the implication is that the rumor just isn't supportable -- or, as in this case, that it's loosely based on a very small kernel of truth (a likely death on board).

 

So you're a self designated moniter. I know I don't need one.

 

I can read threads without someone writing in the margins,

 

Do you have information to contribute to this thread, or not?

[RalphWiggum]

Dockrocker,

 

I understand what you are saying in your last post, which is why I'm not willing to believe the details of the confirmations just yet, but do tend to believe that there may have been a "suspicious" death on board (I think we all agree that death happens routinely on a cruise ship given the advanced age of some passengers plus on my last NCL cruise I swear that some passengers were attempting to live out the movie Leaving Las Vegas, but with food instead of alcohol - this Jade incident seems like something out of the routine).

 

None of this explains why you should have a problem with the OP coming on a board to ask for confirmation from others on the ship about two stories that he heard? What is wrong with that?

[dockrocker]

So you're a self designated moniter

 

No. I'm not a monitor. But I will challenge the spreading of rumors that are unsupported when they're posted here. We all have the right to post our opinions -- and you have the right to discount, ignore or argue with any you don't like. Ain't freedom great? ;)

[dockrocker]

plus on my last NCL cruise I swear that some passengers were attempting to live out the movie Leaving Las Vegas, but with food instead of alcohol

 

Now that made coffee come through my nose. Thanks for the laugh.

[MrPete]

No. I'm not a monitor. But I will challenge the spreading of rumors that are unsupported when they're posted here. We all have the right to post our opinions -- and you have the right to discount, ignore or argue with any you don't like. Ain't freedom great? ;)

 

Sounds like those in a building when a fire alarm goes off, and they are waiting for some kind of secondary sign that, in fact, there is a fire. :rolleyes:

 

They are usually the ones that get burned.

 

I'd rather escape first, and find out I was wrong, later.

[dockrocker]

Sounds like those in a building when a fire alarm goes off, and they are waiting for some kind of secondary sign that, in fact, there is a fire. :rolleyes:

 

Not much of an analogy. A fire alarm's a pretty credible source that there may be a problem; it can be pulled accidentally or maliciously, of course, but it's the agreed-upon source that, except when it's misused or broken, is a trustworthy authority.

 

An anonymous internet rumor taking several competing and wildly melodramatic forms, and for which no one so far can provide an iota of concrete evidence -- not so much.

[MrPete]

Not much of an analogy. A fire alarm's a pretty credible source that there may be a problem; it can be pulled accidentally or maliciously, of course, but it's the agreed-upon source that, except when it's misused or broken, is a trustworthy authority.

 

An anonymous internet rumor taking several competing and wildly melodramatic forms, and for which no one so far can provide an iota of concrete evidence -- not so much.

 

We will all wait patiently until the evidence is provided to you, and then you can advise us.

[dockrocker]

We will all wait patiently until the evidence is provided to you, and then you can advise us.

 

Good luck on the patience part. ;)

[mozfoz]

I too, just reurned from the June 20th sailing of the Jade. Yes, the ship did return to Barcelona for a "medical" evacuation, causing a delay of 2 hours in arriving at Monte Carlo on Monday, and yes, we were delayed 2 hours from leaving the ship in Rome on Wednesday. At both ports, our shore times were extended. The "rumors" do support what we were told from crew members and from what we saw. We did see the ambulane in Barcelona and we did see the police on the ship in Rome. How exact the "rumors" are is a question, but that two passengers who started the cruise, did not get to finish is a fact! You are free to debate it or accept it!

[dockrocker]

How exact the "rumors" are is a question, but that two passengers who started the cruise, did not get to finish is a fact! You are free to debate it or accept it!

 

I don't think anyone was doubting that two people who started the cruise didn't finish it. The point of contention seems to be whether someone was murdered.

[RuthlessBunny]

Just wanted to add my two-cents. I was cruising with a couple and one of the members fell into a coma and was evacuated off of the ship in Martinique. Unfortunately he died en-route back to Miami.

 

This happend on a Princess cruise. To my knowledge, this was a private issue for those in my party and the particulars weren't shared with other passengers. Altough I'm sure the folks who watched as our friend was evacuated off the ship and onto a tender had plenty to speculate about.

 

I would assume that occasionally passengers die on cruises, for a myriad of reasons.

 

Cruise ships have these issues periodically, and while I don't doubt that there were delays for medical reasons or for a death, I do wonder that either were as sensational as the above posters are intimating.

 

Unless one were a witness I doubt that the crew would discuss such a matter with other passengers. I doubt VERY seriously that a tour group was shown a picture of the supposed victim and asked if she had been seen.

[newmexicoNita]

Whew. WTH was that? Directors of law school writing clinics across the English-speaking world are cringing.

 

Neverthless, I think I'm able to disentangle the general gist from the word salad.

 

Here are the facts:

 

1. Some total strangers in a pizzeria in Napoli told you that someone got murdered on their ship. They heard a "rumor" that it was a guy who offed his wife. They "seemed really sincere" when telling this story.

2. Despite days having passed, despite this sort of story being the bread and butter of the blood-and-guts-obsessed press, no mention of a cruise ship murder has appeared in the quite rapidly moving and technologically advanced international media. Nor has anyone visited the NCL threads to report having been on the ship and heard such a rumor...until today, following your post.

3. A couple of first-time posters created new accounts today and jumped on this thread in the past few hours to earnestly avow that they were on this ship and "something funny was going on."

 

Those are the facts. Do they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one was murdered that week on the Jade? Nope. Do they strongly suggest where the truth lies? Even a 1L at the bottom of his class can spot this obvious a chasm between the credibility of these stories and sources -- and frankly, I'm amused that someone claiming "a legal mind" would try to pretend that all pieces of information are identical in quality.

 

At this point, you're bulldogging a lost battle just because you're embarrassed. A reasoned tenacity will serve you in the practice of law. Blind obstreperousness will not.

 

There are some that will believe anything they want based on what a few have to say.

 

As I said, a similar story was posted here a few months ago but I beleive it was the Gem. Of course I am leary of these stories. Some say companies can keep these things quiet, will they certainly have made headlines in the past.

 

You and I seem to be the 2 skeptics here. I too, am not saying nothing happened, but what we may never know...

 

Nita

[JColquhoun]

Would this kind of news be in the Italian Papers?

[swiftgirl56]

We have just returned from a cruise aboard the NCL Jade and yes we did turn back to Barcelona because of a member of staff becoming very ill, we did ask our Butler and he informed us the next day that the lady in question was fine.

Now about the "murder", this was not true, apparently it was a female in her late 30's and pregnant as for her husband killing her, I think that was rubbish, she was on board with 3 other children whom, I might say were very,very upset and this was extremely stressful for all the people onboard who knew about it and saw her sons trying to get into the "Morgue" van which took her body away. I could see from where I was sat in the Blue Lagoon having lunch when I saw all this going on and it put me off my meal, I can tell you.

I do believe if this was a murder investigation nobody would have been let off the ship until questioned, and nobody I know was questioned.

I hope this clears up your questions?

[swiftgirl56]

We have just returned from a cruise aboard the NCL Jade and yes we did turn back to Barcelona because of a member of staff becoming very ill, we did ask our Butler and he informed us the next day that the lady in question was fine.

Now about the "murder", this was not true, apparently it was a female in her late 30's and pregnant as for her husband killing her, I think that was rubbish, she was on board with 3 other children whom, I might say were very,very upset and this was extremely stressful for all the people onboard who knew about it and saw her sons trying to get into the "Morgue" van which took her body away. I could see from where I was sat in the Blue Lagoon having lunch when I saw all this going on and it put me off my meal, I can tell you.

I do believe if this was a murder investigation nobody would have been let off the ship until questioned, and nobody I know was questioned.

I hope this clears up your questions?

[Micchi]

Hey, everyone. I just got home today from this cruise and the first thing I Googled was "Norwegian Jade Death" to see what people were saying and I found this thread. Apparently I'm the only one on this board who actually knows what happened on this cruise so I'll try to clear things up.

 

The return to Barcelona was due to a passenger/crew member (not sure which) that had a medical emergency that required immediate professional attention -- more professional than the Jade's med staff, that is. It was an Asian female and I watched her get taken off the ship and loaded into an ambulance. She was alive when I saw her, so I seriously doubt that she died on the way to the hospital. People die on cruise ships all the time, so for the ship to decide to turn around I think it was probably a stroke or embolism.

 

The delay in Rome was because of the death of a woman that died as a result of autoerotic asphyxiation by her husband. It was a husband, wife, and their two children (10ish and 12ish in age) that were sailing together with the children and parents having seperate rooms. The death was quickly determined by investigators to be "accidental strangulation". Since the line can sometimes be very blurry between an "accidental death", "manslaughter", and "murder" in these cases,the investigators were simply following protocol taping off the scene and taking pictures. The two kids and the husband were seen by many onboard crying hysterically as they gathered by the Coroner vehicle.

 

I had a loved one die a similar death and the circumstances of the manner of death make it even more confusing and harder to deal with. I can't imagine what those poor kids must be going through. You never expect something like this to happen, much less during such an incredible vacation.

 

We have just returned from a cruise aboard the NCL Jade and yes we did turn back to Barcelona because of a member of staff becoming very ill, we did ask our Butler and he informed us the next day that the lady in question was fine.

Now about the "murder", this was not true, apparently it was a female in her late 30's and pregnant as for her husband killing her, I think that was rubbish, she was on board with 3 other children whom, I might say were very,very upset and this was extremely stressful for all the people onboard who knew about it and saw her sons trying to get into the "Morgue" van which took her body away. I could see from where I was sat in the Blue Lagoon having lunch when I saw all this going on and it put me off my meal, I can tell you.

I do believe if this was a murder investigation nobody would have been let off the ship until questioned, and nobody I know was questioned.

I hope this clears up your questions?

 

You see now why some of us are skeptical. Both of you claim to be the authoritative source, yet... well, the inconsistency speaks for itself.

[Jade Passenger]

Welcome to Cruise Critic, new posters! Glad to have you with us!

 

Here are the facts I can confirm:

 

1.) I was a passenger on the ship - 10th deck, aft

2.) After setting sail from Barcelona, the ship returned to Barcelona. An announcement indicated the reason was a medical emergency.

3.) Captain set sail again and made up some of the lost time, however, we were late arriving to Monte Carlo. (Shore excursion lost some time).

4.) When arriving in Civitecchia, we assembled in the Stardust Theater to begin an 8:00 shore excursion. After we waited for a while we were told that the ship had not been cleared and officials were on the way from Rome.

5.) We were told to leave the Stardust Theater and an announcement would tell us when the ship was cleared.

6.) After arriving from shore excursion in Rome I SAW AN ITALIAN CORONER'S VAN AND AN ITALIAN POLICE CAR LEAVE FROM WHERE WE WERE DOCKED with lights flashing.

7.) Someone we met at the Barcelona Reniassance Hotel on Friday night (we stayed there the night before we left) had a cabin on the 9th deck. She informed us about the "detour" down the halls on the 9th floor and the reason why passengers on that section of the ship were not permitted to go to their cabins for a while.

8.) I did not know if this situation made the news in the US or not. I was afraid family in the US would be worried.

9.) After landing in the US and waiting for a connecting flight to my hometown, I googled "death on NCL cruise in June 2010". I was lead to this site. (Honestly, I wish I had known about it before planning the cruise).

 

So it seems that a couple of us who were passengers decided to do a little research when we returned. Those of you who are skeptical - I can understand that. I would like to have the facts myself. I received an email with a satisfaction survey from NCL today. In the comment section I expressed my concern about not being told about the situation.

 

Honestly, I really do wish this was a hoax. I don't have any information about the first situation. I don't know if it was a passenger or a crew member. Someone had a medical issue that caused the return to port. I never saw anything, and quite frankly, I wasn't looking. It was the first night of the cruise. I did inquire with the shop worker why the helicopter didn't come instead of the return to port. As far as the "murder", I didn't hear that the woman was pregnant, and I didn't hear that her throat was slit. I heard a woman was strangled by her husband or boyfriend.

 

If there is a way to verify this information, please let me know.

[Sparkylok6]

OMG....I just read this whole thread and those are 20 minutes of my life I will never get back.

 

Who gives a crap who the source is? Really!!!! Who gives a crap that there are first time posters on here?

 

Ok, so now some "long time" (ie: more than 1 prior post) have posted to confirm some sort of portion of the story. Does that make the skeptics happy? Or should we request a video from NCL? For heavens sake people someone was sick enough to have the ship return to Port in order to obtain medical care and someone died.....Say a prayer for them, their soul and their family...and then move on. Its a message board people.

 

I am with you Mr. Pete!

[elfree]

We have just returned from a cruise aboard the NCL Jade and yes we did turn back to Barcelona because of a member of staff becoming very ill, we did ask our Butler and he informed us the next day that the lady in question was fine.

Now about the "murder", this was not true, apparently it was a female in her late 30's and pregnant as for her husband killing her, I think that was rubbish, she was on board with 3 other children whom, I might say were very,very upset and this was extremely stressful for all the people onboard who knew about it and saw her sons trying to get into the "Morgue" van which took her body away. I could see from where I was sat in the Blue Lagoon having lunch when I saw all this going on and it put me off my meal, I can tell you.

I do believe if this was a murder investigation nobody would have been let off the ship until questioned, and nobody I know was questioned.

I hope this clears up your questions?

 

I am telling you and Re CONFIRM. Myself with a group of over 50 pax were actuall questioned by police and photo of the allegadely murdered woman shown to us.. Al this was happening while on the pa system was still blaming the authorities for being late while in allthis time police been on board questionong disembarking people..

[elfree]

My bad on that -- didn't see elfree had been on a roll call. My apologies, elfree. Looks like there were at least a couple of roll calls for that cruise.

 

Apologies accepted dockrocker!! :)

 

It was my first cruise ever and yes I was on the roll call. I not been much active before because am new to these things but again i will state my point that exactly what happened I dont know all can confirm is what the crew and the police themselves said to me..

Hope something officialy can come out about this..

[UK_Cruiser]

My wife and I were on this cruise. Here's our take on Wednesday, June 23, 2010: Upon meeting for our shore excursion in the Stardust Theatre we were told of a delay in being "cleared" to proceed off the ship and that we would be notified when the "officials" would give this clearance. About one and a half hours later we were allowed to get off the ship and proceed with our day. We toured Rome with about thirty other cruise mates throughout the day. At the very end of our tour our guide asked us if we wanted to know why we were so late with the officials clearing us to get off the ship. Of course we were curious so we all said yes. She, a local guide from the Rome area, stated very admittedly that "a man had strangled his wife." We were like, whoa! She said we were only allowed off the ship after "the man confessed." She didn't want to get us any more details and said we could find our more info from the ship. Of course, none of the staff on the ship appeared to have a clue. Everything was hush hush.

 

 

Sorry but I do not believe any of this. Not one report anywhere by an official news source on the internet. Not one.

[newmexicoNita]

You see now why some of us are skeptical. Both of you claim to be the authoritative source, yet... well, the inconsistency speaks for itself.

 

exactly and that is what the thread was like about the other death/murder/suicide, whatever it was supposed to be. Never any official reports but several were sure what they say. Only problem none agreed. and now we get daddios version. The thing is, I think some of what is being posted does seem feasable, but I think many are being taken in, again, by rumor. Take the story daddio just gave. I am sure he heard exactly what he is saying, does that make it factual? Of course not. If the tour guide knew exactly what happened and it was fact somewhere along the way the press would have picked up on it. Until such time as the press posts something I will continue to say it is just another story that someone started and others are giving their versions of, but none are really fact.

 

Nita LOL