Why do you like Cunard? What could Cunard do better?

[Salacia]

[quote name='Cruachan'][rant] You know, I defer to none on this board in my love of Cunard, or at any rate in my love of sailing on their ships. But sometimes I just get this tiny little feeling squirming away, deep in the darkest recesses of the pit of my stomach, that if I ever read the word "elegant" in one more Cunard related statement, particularly if it emanates from their publicity machine, I will scream and scream and scream until I produce a projectile vomit all over my damn keyboard.

Seldom have I ever encountered a word from the English language that has been so systematically overused, misused, and downright absused, to the point where it has been rendered totally and utterly devoid of meaning. Is there any pressing reason why they can't describe the three elements of their damn dress code as Formal, Semi Formal and Informal? or would that really be asking too much? [/rant]

Peace and love

J

PS - Well, the OP [B]did[/B] ask, so this can be taken as a response to the second question.[/quote]

The correspondence I receive from Cunard on this side of the pond refers to the dress code as being Formal, Semi-Formal and Smart Casual. So I always give my casual clothes an IQ test before I pack.

"Refined" is the word that really gets me. I will try not to use the "e" word now that I know how it affects you. Not using the the "i" word either (big time upsetter here).

Ok, so we're narrowing down the dress code and usable words. I feel lighter already (or maybe it's the effects of the heat wave).:eek:

Peace Love & Understanding,
Salacia the Aquarian

[north east girl]

[quote name='RobertGraves']I would like to point out that in Cunard we enjoy Elegant Casual nights, not Smart Casual. This means that gentlemen have to wear a jacket (but no tie).

So, frankly, why abolish Informal nights? You dress exactly like in an Elegant Casual night - you only have to put a tie. Which takes almost no place in the suitcase. That's all.

Actually many gentlemen find it enjoyable to wear a tie even in some Elegant Casual nights. It is arguably the ship's ambience that inspires them.

As to ladies, observation shows that they dress approximately the same in both Elegant Casual and Informal nights. Actually, it is one of Cunard surprising delights to see our ladies dressed elegantly in all nights, not only in Informal/Formal ones. Nothing would change for them if informal nights were abolished.

Moreover, experience from other companies has shown that all Informal nights became Casual. None became Formal. Abolition of Informal nights would be just a step to demolition of Cunard's distinct dress code, which adds so much to making a Cunard cruise unique. Let alone that jacket and tie has arguably come to evoke a sense of Britishness, one of Cunard's main characteristics.

So, it would be great if the dress code remains as it is. Informal nights add nicely to this delightful variety that characterizes a Cunard cruise.[/quote]
Hi Robert, Totally agree with you, the reason we first decided to take a Cunard voyage was the fact that the dress code was part of the Cunard experience.

I have looked at other cruise lines and have found that the price of some are much more expensive for the same trips as Cunard, with some having a more casual dress code. I don't want that kind of experience.

We are now looking forward to our 3rd voyage on QM2 and I am planning my wardrobe around the dress code.

Catherine

[heywood]

My personal opinion is that men of a certain age look better with a tie when wearing a suit or jacket.
We have noticed an increasing number of men wearing suits and open necked shirts on quite serious tv programmes and they just don't look right. The shirt styles are meant to have a tie.
On TV at the moment, a well-known chef is being interviewed and he is wearing a cardigan and an open neck shirt but you can see that the shirt is a casual one and he looks fine.
We are no fashion icons (or police) but it seems silly to have these categories - just dress with some decorum :D
(When I was a policewoman many, many years ago, we used to wear separate collars which we sent to a chinese laundry - wow - they ensured you held your head up high :D)

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='north east girl']Hi Robert, Totally agree with you, the reason we first decided to take a Cunard voyage was the fact that the dress code was part of the Cunard experience.

I have looked at other cruise lines and have found that the price of some are much more expensive for the same trips as Cunard, with some having a more casual dress code. I don't want that kind of experience.

We are now looking forward to our 3rd voyage on QM2 and I am planning my wardrobe around the dress code.

Catherine[/quote]

Hi Catherine,

Glad to see like-minded people. You remind me of my first days with Cunard.

The dress code theme is just a part of a wider discussion. It's such a pity that homogenization, simplification and standardization are condemning some nice old values in the name of 'relaxation', 'modernity' and the like. I know many people get a hard and tiresome life, but this should not make us less romantic in our free time.

Enjoy your 3rd voyage on QM2 - and I'm sure all the next ones! :)

Robert

[Cruachan]

[quote name='RobertGraves']Informal would be much nicer to describe what Elegant Casual is referring to today. Actually, I was looking at the website of an other cruise company some days ago, and their 'formal' nights required no more than a jacket without tie.:D
[/quote]

That calls to mind a comedian who performed on QE2 in 2007 - he said that he had just come from one of the Ocean Village ships and "formal night on there meant a clean vest***". Needless to say that got the biggest laugh of the night :eek:

J

*** = vest in the UK sense, that is, an undergarment as opposed to a waistcoat.

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='heywood'] just dress with some decorum :D
[/quote]

Yes, no one asks for excesses or 'over-dressing'. We can just follow each night's code and thus contribute to creating this general wonderful atmosphere.

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='Cruachan']That calls to mind a comedian who performed on QE2 in 2007 - he said that he had just come from one of the Ocean Village ships and "formal night on there meant a clean vest***". Needless to say that got the biggest laugh of the night :eek: quote]

Oh, now it is clear why Cunard wanted to acquire Ocean Village's orphan clientele (per April 1 post here). :D

Robert, unable to stop loughing.

[Cruachan]

[quote name='heywood']just dress with some decorum :D[/quote]

Can I pass on the decorum? It just doesn't suit me - I much prefer black tie.

[quote name='heywood']When I was a policewoman many, many years ago, we used to wear separate collars[/quote]

Ah, such nostalgia! When I joined the Army (just after Legio IX Hispana left Eboracum for an uncertain future on the Continent), we were issued with shirts with separate collars. Sadly, given the infantryman's legendary ability to avoid any work that he considered unnecessary, all this served to achieve was to ensure that we had very clean collars while the shirt itself gave every appearance of having spent some time languishing in the sump of a diesel engine.

J

[garigoun]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]Once again we encounter the Bold Cunardeers’ obsession with dress. Why is it I wonder that this simple process of putting on appropriate clothing for the occasion is so fraught with dissension, pretension and ostentation. The company actually tells you what to wear for what, irrespective of what it calls it, elegant Casual (sorry James), informal or formal. Suggestions as to the correct wear are quite clearly printed. But still the questions come and the anxiety proliferates. I personally am a fan of formal, the more restrictive the dress code the better as far as I am concerned it makes things so much more simple. Many people differ in their opinion as to what constitutes formal, especially for men (.see discussions on coloured bow ties etc.). But it has been my experience on QE2, QM2 and also on the Caronia that the general standard of dress, particularly during the day is not that great. I think the passengers are split roughly 50/50 between those that dress fairly smartly and appropriately and those that look as though they have just raided the bargain rail in their local Salvation Army shop and quite deliberately selected something that is a size too small and designed for someone at least 35 years younger. If I could post pictures I would. Formal evenings, the majority of pax conform – to begin with. But on EVERY trip you may see in the much vaunted elegance of the Queen’s Room, ‘gentlemen’ who are old enough to know better divest themselves not only of their ties but also their jackets. And there they lounge in all their portly glory, the protruding bay window and the distinctly mammalian chests divided into three by the bold slash of their braces (suspenders). Not only do these sophisticates sit around like that but they actually get up to dance in the same state of déshabillé. How any lady could permit herself to be conducted round the floor by one of them is a complete mystery to me. So you see in spite of so many voices being raised in support of the idea of dress codes the reality is a little different. Gentlemen who cannot manage to keep jacket and tie on for a whole 3 hours are a sorry lot indeed. And I have to say ladies that you are much to blame for this situation you should not tolerate it And on the subject of ladies there are those among you who see nothing wrong in adjusting their makeup and /or combing their hair in public, never an attractive sight, or putting their feet up onto the seats sometimes even with their shoes on. So let us not obsess over the colour of the tie or how it is tied and such like arcana it were enough for me to see everyone keep all their clothes on during the course of the evening and to complete their toilette in private.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=black]Mr. G. Goun[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Cruachan]

[quote name='garigoun'][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][COLOR=black]Once again we encounter the Bold Cunardeers’ obsession with dress. Why is it I wonder that this simple process of putting on appropriate clothing for the occasion is so fraught with dissension, pretension and ostentation. The company actually tells you what to wear for what, irrespective of what it calls it, elegant Casual (sorry James), informal or formal. Suggestions as to the correct wear are quite clearly printed. But still the questions come and the anxiety proliferates. I personally am a fan of formal, the more restrictive the dress code the better as far as I am concerned it makes things so much more simple. Many people differ in their opinion as to what constitutes formal, especially for men (.see discussions on coloured bow ties etc.). But it has been my experience on QE2, QM2 and also on the Caronia that the general standard of dress, particularly during the day is not that great. I think the passengers are split roughly 50/50 between those that dress fairly smartly and appropriately and those that look as though they have just raided the bargain rail in their local Salvation Army shop and quite deliberately selected something that is a size too small and designed for someone at least 35 years younger. If I could post pictures I would. Formal evenings, the majority of pax conform – to begin with. But on EVERY trip you may see in the much vaunted elegance of the Queen’s Room, ‘gentlemen’ who are old enough to know better divest themselves not only of their ties but also their jackets. And there they lounge in all their portly glory, the protruding bay window and the distinctly mammalian chests divided into three by the bold slash of their braces (suspenders). Not only do these sophisticates sit around like that but they actually get up to dance in the same state of déshabillé. How any lady could permit herself to be conducted round the floor by one of them is a complete mystery to me. So you see in spite of so many voices being raised in support of the idea of dress codes the reality is a little different. Gentlemen who cannot manage to keep jacket and tie on for a whole 3 hours are a sorry lot indeed. And I have to say ladies that you are much to blame for this situation you should not tolerate it And on the subject of ladies there are those among you who see nothing wrong in adjusting their makeup and /or combing their hair in public, never an attractive sight, or putting their feet up onto the seats sometimes even with their shoes on. So let us not obsess over the colour of the tie or how it is tied and such like arcana it were enough for me to see everyone keep all their clothes on during the course of the evening and to complete their toilette in private.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=black]Mr. G. Goun[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

Bad day at the office, Gazza?

I see you've sussed my Sally Army cutting-edge fashion tactics !!

J

[The Real PM]

[quote name='Salacia']The correspondence I receive from Cunard on this side of the pond refers to the dress code as being Formal, Semi-Formal and Smart Casual. So I always give my casual clothes an IQ test before I pack.

"Refined" is the word that really gets me. I will try not to use the "e" word now that I know how it affects you. Not using the the "i" word either (big time upsetter here).

Ok, so we're narrowing down the dress code and usable words. I feel lighter already (or maybe it's the effects of the heat wave).:eek:

Peace Love & Understanding,
Salacia the Aquarian[/quote]
That is very strange. My final documents from my last cruise state, and I quote, "Formal 4 Semi-Formal 5 [B]Elegant Casual 4."[/B] Could it be the that the line of demarcation is at the New York border?

[david,Mississauga]

[quote name='RobertGraves']I would like to point out that in Cunard we enjoy Elegant Casual nights, not Smart Casual. This means that gentlemen have to wear a jacket (but no tie).
So, frankly, why abolish Informal nights? You dress exactly like in an Elegant Casual night - you only have to put a tie. Which takes almost no place in the suitcase. That's all.

Actually many gentlemen find it enjoyable to wear a tie even in some Elegant Casual nights. It is arguably the ship's ambience that inspires them.
...
[/QUOTE]

Prior to my first crossing on QM2 I had read on this forum that many men will wear a tie on Elegant Casual nights. I decided I would do so and was pleased to see that a substantial minority of men did the same. On our several crossings on QE2 there was none of this casual nonsense; dinner always required jacket and tie.

On my last crossing in May of this year one of the gentleman at our table in QG discreetly said at lunch that he would be wearing a tie at the first dinner. I told him I always do so. On a previous posting I mentioned that on the last night there were many passengers formally dressed - for a specific reason. The conductor of the National Symphony had recruited about 150 passengers to be in the two choirs for the Last Night of the Proms. He insisted they dress formally. Some casually dressed passengers looked a bit surprised to see these formally dressed passengers going to dinner on the last night. The gentleman at our table said if anyone made a comment on his being dressed in a DJ on a casual night he was going to say: "This is as casual as I get at dinner." But of course no-one made a comment.

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='The Real PM']That is very strange. My final documents from my last cruise state, and I quote, "Formal 4 Semi-Formal 5 [B]Elegant Casual 4."[/B] Could it be the that the line of demarcation is at the New York border?[/quote]

Perhaps most importantly, aboard the ships themselves they are called 'Elegant Casual', both in European and American cruises (either from New York or Fort Lauderdale). My daily programs, which I have just looked at, confirm it.

[Cruachan]

[quote name='david,Mississauga']The gentleman at our table said if anyone made a comment on his being dressed in a DJ on a casual night he was going to say: "This is as casual as I get at dinner." But of course no-one made a comment.[/quote]

And nobody (other than my wife, who had quite a bit to say on the subject!) made any comment on the two occasions when I managed to do the same thing entirely by accident. I'm not sure [B]why[/B] I appear to be incapable of reading the excellent daily programme and comitting its contents to memory - probably it's an age thing. Then again, they do say you can never be overdressed! :D

J

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='david,Mississauga']Prior to my first crossing on QM2 I had read on this forum that many men will wear a tie on Elegant Casual nights. I decided I would do so and was pleased to see that a substantial minority of men did the same. On our several crossings on QE2 there was none of this casual nonsense; dinner always required jacket and tie.[/quote]

Yes, things were better on QE2 crossings regarding formal nights. Undoubtedly this was one of the reasons which contributed to QE2's unique reputation.

Of course the lowering of the standards is now universal and this affects Cunard to a degree, too.

[quote name='david,Mississauga']...on the last night there were many passengers formally dressed - for a specific reason.[/quote]

We had a similar experience on the last night of our last Queen Victoria cruise, even if it was without a specific reason. Although designed as Casual, we were nicely surprised to see *all* gentlemen coming pre-dinner to the Commodore Club in dark suit and tie.

I suspect this was because of the predominantly British element of the clientele. British protected their identity during two World Wars and it seems they continue to do so (on Cunard at least) defying the commands of fierce globalization. :cool:

[quote name='david,Mississauga']The gentleman at our table said if anyone made a comment on his being dressed in a DJ on a casual night he was going to say: "This is as casual as I get at dinner." But of course no-one made a comment.[/quote]

Great.:D But it sounds so strange that one has almost to apologize for dressing well on a cruise...:eek:

[Salacia]

[quote name='RobertGraves']Perhaps most importantly, aboard the ships themselves they are called 'Elegant Casual', both in European and American cruises (either from New York or Fort Lauderdale). My daily programs, which I have just looked at, confirm it.[/quote]


Right you are RobertGraves! Indeed it is called [I]elegant casual[/I] and not [I]smart casual[/I] as I wrote earlier. Sorry for confusing the terms.

Regards,
Salacia

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='Salacia']Right you are RobertGraves! Indeed it is called [I]elegant casual[/I] and not [I]smart casual[/I] as I wrote earlier. Sorry for confusing the terms.

Regards,
Salacia[/quote]

And I see here that you are, Salacia, a true Cunard gentleman. If we ever meet at the Commodore, I shall gladly treat you a Martini. ;)

[Salacia]

[quote name='RobertGraves']And I see here that you are, Salacia, a true Cunard gentleman. If we ever meet at the Commodore, I shall gladly treat you a Martini. ;)[/quote]


Thank you kindly, RobertGraves. But alas, I am not a true Cunard gentleman. I am female, always have been. I hope I still get that martini :)

BTW, I borrowed my on-line nickname from Roman mythology.

Regards,
Salacia

[Cruachan]

[quote name='Salacia']Thank you kindly, RobertGraves. But alas, I am not a true Cunard gentleman. I am female, always have been. I hope I still get that martini :)

BTW, I borrowed my on-line nickname from Roman mythology.

Regards,
Salacia[/quote]

Damn! You beat me to the "submit reply" button by about 10 seconds!! Give my regards to Neptune!

:)

J

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='Salacia']Thank you kindly, RobertGraves. But alas, I am not a true Cunard gentleman. I am female, always have been. I hope I still get that martini :)

BTW, I borrowed my on-line nickname from Roman mythology.

Regards,
Salacia[/quote]

Oh my! I always identify Poseidon's/Neptune's wife with her Greek name, Amphitrite. I'm afraid Aulus Gellius and Seneca would send me directly to the kitchen (or a Cunard galley).:)

A true Cunard Lady you are, then. And the martini always awaits you!

PS. Great nickname!

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='Cruachan']Damn! You beat me to the "submit reply" button by about 10 seconds!! Give my regards to Neptune!

:)

J[/quote]

I see always ready to strike, James. How did you escape been enlisted in Legio IX Hispana to the East? You could give those bloody Parthians some nice lessons!

[Cruachan]

[quote name='RobertGraves']I see always ready to strike, James. How did you escape been enlisted in Legio IX Hispana to the East? You could give those bloody Parthians some nice lessons![/quote]

ROFLMAO! I was north of the Hadrian's Wall at the time. The Romans had a few problems up there :D

J

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='Cruachan']ROFLMAO! I was north of the Hadrian's Wall at the time. The Romans had a few problems up there :D

J[/quote]

Nice job! You saved Britannia, so that we can all enjoy it now as a restaurant in Cunard ships. :D

[Cruachan]

[quote name='RobertGraves']Nice job! You saved Britannia, so that we can all enjoy it now as a restaurant in Cunard ships. :D[/quote]

Talking of Cunard restaurants - just to nudge things back to somewhere close the "critical path" of the thread - I vividly remember reading on a similar message board to this one, someone complaining bitterly about Cunard's utter lack of sensitivity in chosing to name one of the restaurants on QE2 after one of the poorest countries in Africa.

They provided a lengthy disquisition on the subject, pontificating in some detail about how insulting it was to the dirt-poor, starving inhabitants of the country in question that the eponymous restaurant was packed to bursting point with fat, super-rich snobs, gorging themselves on "gourmet" food!

They were, of course, talking about the Mauretania restaurant. The subtle difference in spelling and the true origin of the name had clearly by-passed their somewhat limited intellectual capacity.

J

[RobertGraves]

[quote name='Cruachan']...someone complaining bitterly about Cunard's utter lack of sensitivity in chosing to name one of the restaurants on QE2 after one of the poorest countries in Africa.
[/quote]

It seems some people will try mean things to diminish Cunard. I'm sure many of us have heard 'accusations' of such kind.

It looks to me like a case of 'I hate you because you exist'.