Nickel & Dime? Not Only NCL!

[MommyMonster]

On most airlines you will.

 

LOL:rolleyes: I feel a little stupid now. I haven't flown in 18 years, so I didn't even think about on an airplane. I've been seeing posts on here fo Bliss Pillows, so I was thinking, WOW, maybe they do really nickel and dime.:eek:

 

I am actually excited about my first NCL cruise, I don't think the selling stuff could be worse than carnival and I know we can have an awesome time for a great price, even if we do add a specialty restraunt and some other junk!

[collegecruiser346]

I saw that show on CNBC also and then I started thinking...If the specialty restaurants were included in the cruise fare, what makes them special? Everyone would go, and it would be close to impossible to get a table. Then, those who weren't able to go essentially wouldn't be getting their moneys worth...

[BruceMuzz]

Nickel and Diming is the American Way.

 

In America, EVERY Restaurant, Hotel, Bar, Airline, Gasoline Station, Liquor Store, Auto Dealer, Travel Agent, Movie Theater, Cable TV Company, Telephone Company, Realtor, Funeral Home, State Government - and the Federal Government Nickel and Dime you to death.

 

If you live in America and do not like this system, you might consider moving away, like I did.

 

The new American Motto: "In God we trust - everybody else pays cash"

[luddite]

Nickel and Diming is the American Way.

 

In America, EVERY Restaurant, Hotel, Bar, Airline, Gasoline Station, Liquor Store, Auto Dealer, Travel Agent, Movie Theater, Cable TV Company, Telephone Company, Realtor, Funeral Home, State Government - and the Federal Government Nickel and Dime you to death.

 

If you live in America and do not like this system, you might consider moving away, like I did.

 

The new American Motto: "In God we trust - everybody else pays cash"

 

:D

Ok, yer siggy sez ya live in San fran. Now it's confirmed that San fran isn't really part of the USA? I mean, we all hear about the DPR of California but a few of us just thought it was a small joke. Hmmmmmm.

[disneysteve]

I saw that show on CNBC also and then I started thinking...If the specialty restaurants were included in the cruise fare, what makes them special? Everyone would go, and it would be close to impossible to get a table. Then, those who weren't able to go essentially wouldn't be getting their moneys worth...

 

I disagree. There would still be something special about the sushi bar or the teppanyaki table or the steakhouse because those would be things that weren't available in the main dining room. It isn't the extra fee that makes them special. It is the menu selections that makes them special.

 

Removing the fee wouldn't allow the restaurants to accommodate any more guests than they already accommodate so I don't know why it would make them impossible to get into. They have limited seating now and they would continue to have limited seating if you removed the fee.

 

There are lots of all-inclusive land resorts that have multiple specialty restaurants, just like on a cruise, but they are all included in the price.

[BruceMuzz]

I like the concept of specialty restaurants. I just don't like the added cost. We've been to Sandals several times in Jamaica and St. Lucia. They also have several specialty restaurants but they are included in the all-inclusive price you pay to stay there. I'd like to see the same system on cruise ships. If it works on land, no reason it can't work at sea.

 

I think this is true in our society in general. Look at airlines. The average domestic airline ticket is cheaper today than it was 15 years ago. The problem is that the service is lousy and they nickel and dime you for everything - luggage fees, food fees, reserved seat fees, even bathroom fees on some airlines. I'd much rather pay more for my ticket and get full service without all of the a la carte charges.

 

But Steve, you CAN book a cruise where you DO NOT have to pay extra for the specialty restaurants. Seabourn, Sea Dream, and Silver Sea are great examples. It does work at sea - by not for a very large percentage of the population. That's why Seabourn, Sea Dream, and Silver Sea cannot fill even their small ships, despite the recent heavy discounting.

 

On the airlines you CAN pay more for your ticket and get great service without the ala carte charges. It's called First Class and Business Class. I always fly them and never have any complaints about service or Nickel and Diming.

 

Isn't it wonderful that we have such great choices?

 

1. Pay next to nothing to fly or cruise, put up with minimal service and pay only for the extras you want.

 

OR

 

2. Pay up front for great service and all the extras on the airplane or ship, and worry about nothing afterward.

[disneysteve]

Bruce, that's true. What bothers me is that they try to artificially keep the price low by gradually cutting what that price includes. That's why you can buy a cross country airline ticket today for less than the same ticket cost 15 years ago. You aren't actually getting the same thing for your money. If ticket prices had simply kept up with inflation, airlines wouldn't be struggling to stay in business and they wouldn't be near the top of the list of consumer complaints each year. The problem is the public wants something that they can't have. They want the service of yesteryear but don't want to pay the price. They want the $59 fare on Southwest but don't want to be herded like cattle when they get to the airport. They want the $599 cruise but don't want to be nickel and dimed at every turn once they step onto the boat. It would be nice if there were some middle ground between no-frills and first class.

[Philip217]

Bruce, that's true. What bothers me is that they try to artificially keep the price low by gradually cutting what that price includes. That's why you can buy a cross country airline ticket today for less than the same ticket cost 15 years ago. You aren't actually getting the same thing for your money. If ticket prices had simply kept up with inflation, airlines wouldn't be struggling to stay in business and they wouldn't be near the top of the list of consumer complaints each year. The problem is the public wants something that they can't have. They want the service of yesteryear but don't want to pay the price. They want the $59 fare on Southwest but don't want to be herded like cattle when they get to the airport. They want the $599 cruise but don't want to be nickel and dimed at every turn once they step onto the boat. It would be nice if there were some middle ground between no-frills and first class.

 

Steve,

There is a middle ground. But you are looking for it in the wrong country.

I live in Japan most of the year.

The Japanese love to tell me how when they go shopping they always first ask how GOOD a product is. Price is a secondary concern.

When the Americans go shopping, the first question is, "How CHEAP is it?" Price is everything. Quality is a very distant secondary concern.

 

Middle America controls a large segment of the airline industry and nearly all of the Cruise Industry.

These companies market to the wants and needs of their biggest customers; Middle America. Middle America votes with thier wallets. Low price will nearly always win over high quality with this group. If you need proof of this, count up all the sea going cruise ships in the world today. You should find that there are nearly 300 of them.

How many cater to the budget cruiser? Around 225. (Most of them very large ships)

How many cater to the middle ground cruiser? Around 50. (Most of them mid sized ships)

How many cater to the high end cruiser? Around 25. (Most of them small ships)

 

You want a middle ground on cruising? Where quality is still quite good, price is not too extravagant, and nickel and diming is not too crazy?

Choose an upscale German or Japanese cruise line. They are great.

Try Regent. Also very nice.

 

You want a middle ground on an airline?

Stay away from US Flag airlines. They have developed their product and service to appeal to the largest group of people who will take the cheapest flight, then complain about the service, but will come back again and again if it is cheap enough.

Do you ever see a posting on Cruisecritic asking which US Airline will give them the BEST flight to join a ship? Never happens.

How many hundreds of postings do you see asking for the CHEAPEST flight to get them to a ship? Difficult to count so many.

 

Nearly any airline outside North America will give you a better product, friendlier staff, bigger seats, better food, drinks, and service. It's really too bad for you that the Passenger Vessel Services Act also applies to airplanes. Most of their flights can only happen outside the USA.

[Taxguy77]

With inflation as it is, do the cruise lines now quarter and halve you ?

 

Yes, but it will go up next year.:rolleyes:

[halos]

I don't know why people think only NCL 'nickels and dimes'. We don't find it nickel and diming, more like allowing us to choose what we do and don't want to pay for. What a concept! ! :D

 

I agree one million percent!!

[halos]

Bruce, that's true. What bothers me is that they try to artificially keep the price low by gradually cutting what that price includes. .

 

I have to disagree. It is NOT artificial. For us, the price never winds up being low by the end of the cruise, true...but we expect that. BUT I do know people who do NOT buy anything extra, so their cruise is indeed inexpensive.

I choose to eat in the surcharge dining rooms on occasion...I like that if I want to squeeze an extra cruise into the year, I can get a cheap inside cabin and spend next to nothing on it. The luxury lines that are all suites do not give you this option.

THEY ARE OPTIONS for us. No one puts a knife to your throat and says you must buy $200 worth of photos or book excursions at every port. If you want an all inclusive cruise you have to pay a LOT for it...I know. I have been dying to try Regent but I just can't spend $1200 per person/per day for a Caribbean cruise. I'm just too practical.

 

if you want a cruise with everything included, you are going to pay for it. I think what you want is an all inclusive cruise and you don't want to pay much more than what you are paying now.

That is never going to happen.

 

Even if I were to go top of the line on NCL, get a suite, eat at Le Bisrto every night and drink like a fish, it would still cost less than Regent.

[winewanderer]

I read this thread with great interest. We will be on Norwegian Pearl next April for 2 weeks. Last NCL cruise was 12 years ago and we are really excited to try them again.

 

We generally cruise on Carnival. Lately though we want to go places Carnival doesn't travel to.

 

I don't see NCL as nickle and diming, just providing options. Will we eat at the pay restaurants every night? No, but probably 5 nights we will.

[disneysteve]

I have to disagree. It is NOT artificial. For us, the price never winds up being low by the end of the cruise, true...but we expect that. BUT I do know people who do NOT buy anything extra, so their cruise is indeed inexpensive.

 

Perhaps "artificial" isn't the right word. What I mean is that companies (not just cruises) attempt to keep their price stable but do so by changing the product or service they are providing for that price. For example, food companies do this by making the package smaller. So the package that used to be $2.99 for 20 ounces is now $2.99 for 18 ounces. Airlines have kept prices stable by adding charges for checking luggage, getting food and reserving your seat, things that used to be included in the price. So while the price quoted is real, you can't compare it to what the same item or ticket sold for a few years ago and think it is a similar value.

[halos]

So while the price quoted is real, you can't compare it to what the same item or ticket sold for a few years ago and think it is a similar value.

 

I compare it to what I spent on my first cruise in 1991.

CCL Celebration: We paid (for two of us) $1100 for an interior cabin.

I can spend that today for an interior cabin, nearly 20 years later.

Heck, I had two NCL repo cruises a couple years ago that we spent under $80 pp/pd for balcony cabins....Was that a steal?? You betcha. Did I expect that to last forever?...NO WAY. (Not that I wouldn't have LIKED it to stay that way!)

 

If the price of cruising had gone up as much as inflation has typically caused EVERYTHING else going up over that 20 year time frame, I wager at least half the folks on these boards wouldn't be cruising as often OR at all. Having things itemized seperately allows people to afford a cruise that may not otherwise be able to.

 

Personally, I like the options. I can make my cruise more to my liking, according to MY pocketbook. Because the base fare of the cruise is so minimal, I love the idea of 'upgrading' my food or my cabin MY way.

 

You may call this nickel and diming, I call it 'personalization' :D

[swedish weave]

Perhaps "artificial" isn't the right word. What I mean is that companies (not just cruises) attempt to keep their price stable but do so by changing the product or service they are providing for that price. For example, food companies do this by making the package smaller. So the package that used to be $2.99 for 20 ounces is now $2.99 for 18 ounces. Airlines have kept prices stable by adding charges for checking luggage, getting food and reserving your seat, things that used to be included in the price. So while the price quoted is real, you can't compare it to what the same item or ticket sold for a few years ago and think it is a similar value.

 

The word "inflation" may come into play here. Still, I like the option of booking a lower priced cruise and only paying for the "add-ons" I use. Remember -- The cruise lines have to pay the $2.99 for the same 18 oz package they used to get in the 20 oz size. Actually, cruise base prices are a lot lower than they were a few years ago.

[disneysteve]

Actually, cruise base prices are a lot lower than they were a few years ago.

Might that be because they have reduced what those base prices include? I honestly can't compare because I'm not comparing identical cruises. I wonder if anyone who has taken the same cruise 5 or so years apart can comment on any differences they noticed.

[nycruiser80]

I was reading the posts over on the Cunard board, and this caught my eye. Just saying its not only NCL that 'nickels and dimes' its passengers (or those who complain about it from other cruise lines).

 

 

 

Not trying to nit pick here but with all due respect what do we mean when we say "those who complain about it from other lines" I am someone who cruises often. I have cruised NCL 5 times, Carnival 5 times, RCI 4 and the list goes on so I don't consider myslef from "another line".

 

I recently posted a review of the Pride of America. While it was lovely cruise I beleived from my perspective that NCL's nickel and diming is just more "in your face" that is why I think people perecive it as more nickel and diming.

 

No doubt about Cunard I sailed QM2 a few years back and her magnificant grand hallways are littered with crap. Looked like a cheap flea market.

 

Of course I understand that all these cruise lines are companies and need to make money but after awhile it can get a little old. It really is a love hate relationship for some of us cruisers because the rates are not that bad because of these onboard sales. Of course, the luxury lines do not do this as much because they don't need too (Cunard by the way is not a luxury line but a premium to deluxe cruise line)

 

While I love NCL and ALL cruise lines ( I really do it is always nice to be on a cruise) I felt like my last NCL cruise on the POA was a giant sales pitch. My favorite was the Hawaiian ambassador on the POA. We are sailing past Napali coast and while he was narrating the wonderful scenery she is suggesting drinks to go along with it, the scrapbooking class and kit later on in the day.

 

It just felt tacky is my point and many of us are not one cruise line people. Some of us like all the different ships. Nevertheless, I would sail NCL again as I think that other aspects of the line are great.

[collegecruiser346]

Might that be because they have reduced what those base prices include? I honestly can't compare because I'm not comparing identical cruises. I wonder if anyone who has taken the same cruise 5 or so years apart can comment on any differences they noticed.

__________________

 

 

I'm going a cruise to the Bahamas and Florida on NCL Jewel in a few weeks. I took the same cruise in 2007 on NCL Spirit. In 2007, we paid $899 pp, for a 6 night cruise. This year, we paid $599 pp, and its 7 nights. (They added in an extra sea day). This year we're also getting $100 obc, a bottle of wine, and dinner for two at a specialty restaurant of our choosing. You simply can't beat it. Sure, I'm going to be pitched stuff during the week, but who cares? If I don't want it, I won't buy it.

[halos]

Might that be because they have reduced what those base prices include? I honestly can't compare because I'm not comparing identical cruises. I wonder if anyone who has taken the same cruise 5 or so years apart can comment on any differences they noticed.

 

They definitely give you less now. No doubt.

Obviously it would be nice for them to give us what they gave us before, but the price would go up enough that THEY feel they'd lose buisness. It's their marketing strategy to do it this way.

 

Personally, if they raised the prices a bit and gave me back a little better service/better quality food I'd be thrilled, but to be honest, I'd STILL want the optional things too.

I like them.

This is why there are many cruise lines...each fit a niche.

 

CCL has made cuts too....the difference is that on CCL there aren't any options. The food/service in the MDR has definitely declined (although it's still pretty good it isn't as good as it was say, 5 or 6 years ago)...but when I cruise CCL, I can't escape to another dining venue unless I am on one of their few ships with a steak house.

I have NO choices. At least on NCL I have choices...and a LOT of them too!! :)

 

Everyone is different. If you don't like paying for everything seperate, then go on an all-inclusive cruise....they are out there.

~*~*

Remember 2 year ago..the fuel surcharge??

:eek:

Some people were totally freaked out by it. They were screaming that they'd rather it be included in the price of the cruise as opposed to seperate.

Come ON...does it really matter? You are paying for it whether you see it or not! Some folks must like to live like osrtiches....if they can't see it, it doesn't bother them. If it's a 'mental thing' with some folks, then they have to get over it because it isn't reality. All-inclusive does not mean you get it for free.

All inclusive cruises do not give you exquisite dinners and soft drinks/alcohol for FREE...you are paying for it. And in those cases, you aren't being nickeled and dimed, you're being hundred-dollared to death!! :eek:

[yukongold]

Obviously I am in the minority here, but I can't believe people have actually paid over $1,000 for a one week cruise - even years ago. Our first cruise in 1971 was $450 for an Oceanview. Our two week TA three years ago was $399. We have never paid more than $80/pp/pn (for an inside or oceanview cabin)on a cruise. We have paid more for a balcony cabin.

 

The cruise industry, like every other industry, has changed over time - and will continue to evolve. The megaships are an example of that.

 

However, if you are not committed to a specific cruise line and watch for deals you can still find very reasonable cruise opportunities. The unbundling aspect of cruising takes away from the old "almost everything included in the price", but does add additional options for cruisers.

 

Their are pros and cons for every change...you just learn to adapt:)

[halos]

Obviously I am in the minority here, but I can't believe people have actually paid over $1,000 for a one week cruise - even years ago. Our first cruise in 1971 was $450 for an Oceanview. Our two week TA three years ago was $399. We have never paid more than $80/pp/pn on a cruise.

 

The cruise industry, like every other industry, has changed over time - and will continue to evolve. The megaships are an example of that.

 

However, if you are not committed to a specific cruise line and watch for deals you can still find very reasonable cruise opportunities. The unbundling aspect of cruising takes away from the old "almost everything included in the price", but does add additional options for cruisers.

 

Their are pros and cons for every change...you just learn to adapt:)

 

Great post....but the category cabin you book dictates the cost pp/pd.

I think I'm a pretty good shopper and I've only found repos that were $80 or under pp/pd for a balcony....and that's because I caught them as soon as the itineraries were released.

if you're getting premium cabins for that price consistantly, the you need to teach me how to shop better!!!! :D

Everything else I agree with you 100%. You learn to go with the flow. If you love cruising enough, that's not difficult. :D

[iheartbda]

halos,

Rather than quoting your whole post, I agree with everything you say.:)

 

As far as those who would like to pay more than being "nickeled and dimed" to death.......HATE that phrase.....like you say it's all about having the choice of what someone wants. You want it, YOU pay for it....simple.

 

And yes, the all inclusive cruises, which REALLY aren't all inclusive anyway, is pay now or pay later and pay big time up front. Someone on one of the Regent, Silver Seas or one of those ilk boards, tried to say that it really wasn't that much more considering what one got for the money. I did a very quick comparison to a main stream line and was that person ever in la,la land.:p

 

There's certainly nothing wrong with all this discussion of cuts backs, what was included and what wasn't before, etc. but, it is what it is in the here and now.

[disneysteve]

I'm going a cruise to the Bahamas and Florida on NCL Jewel in a few weeks. I took the same cruise in 2007 on NCL Spirit. In 2007, we paid $899 pp, for a 6 night cruise. This year, we paid $599 pp, and its 7 nights. (They added in an extra sea day). This year we're also getting $100 obc, a bottle of wine, and dinner for two at a specialty restaurant of our choosing. You simply can't beat it.

Thanks. I realize you were answering exactly what I asked, but it occurred to me after posting that comparing rates today in the midst of the worst recession in 70 years to the rates 5-7 years ago when we were in a roaring economy isn't really accurate either. So much discounting is going on today for economic reasons that it is impossible to compare.

Remember 2 year ago..the fuel surcharge??

:eek:

Some people were totally freaked out by it. They were screaming that they'd rather it be included in the price of the cruise as opposed to seperate.

Come ON...does it really matter?

Whether or not it matters depends on how they handled it. We didn't cruise during that time but we did travel and encountered energy surcharges at hotels. We were not happy about it and on more than one occasion, we complained and had the charge removed from our bill. Why were we upset? Because the charge wasn't revealed at the time of booking. We booked a room for one price and then got hit with a surcharge after the fact. How did the cruises handle it? Did they add the charge after booking or at the time of booking?

[swedish weave]

As a reality check, look at what is happening to the mainstream cruise lines that tried to maintain the image they had a few years ago. They got "gobbled up" by Carnival. They still put on a little bit of a show, but they are in the "belly of the beast".

[swedish weave]

Thanks. I realize you were answering exactly what I asked, but it occurred to me after posting that comparing rates today in the midst of the worst recession in 70 years to the rates 5-7 years ago when we were in a roaring economy isn't really accurate either. So much discounting is going on today for economic reasons that it is impossible to compare.

 

Whether or not it matters depends on how they handled it. We didn't cruise during that time but we did travel and encountered energy surcharges at hotels. We were not happy about it and on more than one occasion, we complained and had the charge removed from our bill. Why were we upset? Because the charge wasn't revealed at the time of booking. We booked a room for one price and then got hit with a surcharge after the fact. How did the cruises handle it? Did they add the charge after booking or at the time of booking?

 

They reserved the right to add the fuel surcharge if oil price went above 65 dollars per barrel. They still reserve that right, but haven't added the charge recently.