NCL's NEW Ships...

[Mr. Luckytoo]

With the rumor that NCL will possibly be ordering two new ships I thought it might be a nice time to help out NCL. HOW? Well, the Epic is their newest ship with lots of innovative designs but it hasn't gotten great reviews - see member review section. In fact the older NCL ships Jewel and Gem are getting better member reviews.

 

Therefore, I thought it would be interesting to start a thread for those who have cruised Epic to put down what they would recommend to NCL to incorporate in their newest ship design - and what to leave out. Of course anyone is free to put in their opinions as well.

 

Personally I'd recommend making the cabin sizes slightly larger and getting rid of the wave design. Keep all the storage cabinets!

 

Go back to a traditional bathroom - take a tour of the Celebrity S-class ships that use the raised sink for proper size.

 

Keep you interior designer that did the Epic - loved the colors and modern elegance.

 

Fire the architect that suggested dropping an apartment complex on the top of the ship

[ColinIllinois]

Keep the Studio rooms. Great and innovative idea.

[rok233]

I agree with Colin, keep the studio rooms! I've never even considered NCL until they came out with the studio rooms, now I have two cruises booked on the EPIC. I've also told my friends about it and they love the idea. See ya RCCL and Carnival, hello Norwegian! :)

[coffeebean]

I agree with Colin, keep the studio rooms! I've never even considered NCL until they came out with the studio rooms, now I have two cruises booked on the EPIC. I've also told my friends about it and they love the idea. See ya RCCL and Carnival, hello Norwegian! :)

The studio cabins seem to be the biggest hit of all the innovative aspects of Epic. Glad to see this design is so popular and NCL did SOMETHING right with their newest ship.

[Jerseyboy1]

First, I have to say that I have not cruised on the Epic and some may question the validity of my statements because of that fact, but here goes:

 

Most of the changes I would suggest between Epic and a supposed new build from NCL would be ship design elements.

 

1. Can we go back to an open promenade deck with actual views of the sea? Many longtime cruisers miss this connection with the sea on the newer ships being built these days. Epic's promenade deck is a joke when compared to the Jewel class ships.

 

2. How about larger pools and more open deck space on the ships? The Epic just looks too crowded on top with a hodgepodge of activities.

 

3. Can we get a forward observation area and bar like the Spinnakers on the Jewel class ships, or is NCL doing away with this concept to make more money from suites? Whether or not they want to admit it, NCL knows many people like that area....especially in Alaska weather.

 

4. Obviously for me anyway, can we go back to the "old style" "tried and true" cabins and bathrooms? Ditch the "wave". No need to elaborate on this.

 

5. Can NCL not try to cram 4000 people on these new ships? Cabin space is important to people. Larger and fewer cabins would be the way to go and a more favorable person to space ratio on the newer ships would be desirable.

 

6. I would also take some of the entertainment and restaurant choices that are on the Epic and put them on the new ships. Those elements and the studio cabins seem to get the best grade from previous cruisers.

[sjbdtz]

With the rumor that NCL will possibly be ordering two new ships I thought it might be a nice time to help out NCL. HOW? Well, the Epic is their newest ship with lots of innovative designs but it hasn't gotten great reviews - see member review section. In fact the older NCL ships Jewel and Gem are getting better member reviews.

 

Therefore, I thought it would be interesting to start a thread for those who have cruised Epic to put down what they would recommend to NCL to incorporate in their newest ship design - and what to leave out. Of course anyone is free to put in their opinions as well.

 

Personally I'd recommend making the cabin sizes slightly larger and getting rid of the wave design. Keep all the storage cabinets!

 

Go back to a traditional bathroom - take a tour of the Celebrity S-class ships that use the raised sink for proper size.

 

Keep you interior designer that did the Epic - loved the colors and modern elegance.

 

Fire the architect that suggested dropping an apartment complex on the top of the ship

 

 

1. Keep the Courtyard area

 

2. Keep the Epic Club

 

3. Keep the wave cabins

 

4. Keep the massive casino, BUT put the smokers off to the side.

 

 

 

Frankly the ship is awesome, if you could just get everything in it to work the way it was designed / intended.

 

Shake it down for 6 months, get all the squeaks lubricated, and all the sinks replaced....then build a slightly miniaturized version with show ticketing by-the-seat (so you know at booking where you'll be sitting)

[sjbdtz]

1. Can we go back to an open promenade deck with actual views of the sea? Many longtime cruisers miss this connection with the sea on the newer ships being built these days. Epic's promenade deck is a joke when compared to the Jewel class ships.

 

Good. Nobody Promenades anymore, anyway. use a treadmill!

 

2. How about larger pools and more open deck space on the ships? The Epic just looks too crowded on top with a hodgepodge of activities.

 

Fine...no need for 3 waterslides, 2 + larger pool would do.

 

 

 

3. Can we get a forward observation area and bar like the Spinnakers on the Jewel class ships, or is NCL doing away with this concept to make more money from suites? Whether or not they want to admit it, NCL knows many people like that area....especially in Alaska weather.

 

No thanks! Total waste of space, much better used for the buffet, the way it is on the EPIC.

 

 

4. Obviously for me anyway, can we go back to the "old style" "tried and true" cabins and bathrooms? Ditch the "wave". No need to elaborate on this.

 

NO WAY! one of the best features of the ship. It's about time someone stopped building rectangles!

 

 

5. Can NCL not try to cram 4000 people on these new ships? Cabin space is important to people. Larger and fewer cabins would be the way to go and a more favorable person to space ratio on the newer ships would be desirable.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "cram'. The ship felt mostly empty most of the time, with the except of disembarkation, when we needed to bypass impatient crowds.

 

If you want larger & fewer cabins...then go on a smaller & higher-priced ship!

 

 

6. I would also take some of the entertainment and restaurant choices that are on the Epic and put them on the new ships. Those elements and the studio cabins seem to get the best grade from previous cruisers.

 

 

the Courtyard actually seems to be the thing with the best grade.

[Mr. Luckytoo]

1. Can we go back to an open promenade deck with actual views of the sea? Many longtime cruisers miss this connection with the sea on the newer ships being built these days. Epic's promenade deck is a joke when compared to the Jewel class ships.

 

I agree with you on the open promenade deck - unfortunately it seems we are in the minority. Looking at all the "new" ships (Oasis, Epic and Dream) it seems like the lifeboats now occupy that promenade deck. While I don't like the effect I understand the concept - more balcony's and a higher rate of return for the ship.

[david_sobe]

I may be in the minority of cruise opinion (but maybe the majority of this NCL board) but I love the fact the Epic is the step child of the NCL fleet. Yes some function was sacraficed for style but that wins points with me. I love the fact to be cruising on a one of a kind ship. The Jewel and the Pearl are almost identical. While you can have great cruises, the similiarities are a bit of a downer for the frequent NCL cruiser. The RCCL Oasis is identical to the RCCL Allure. How boring. Both new RCCL ships will also be in the same port. How boring! I love how different Epic looks from the outside. I love how different the cabins are from other cruise ships. I love the Villa area and the creative entertainment options. Epic is so different. I know NCL is going in a different direction and I think long term, Epic will be a success. It may be the step child but she is radical and different. How cool is that?

It is realistic to see that Epic has gotten mixed reviews here on cruise critic. It has the same mixed reviews of the NCL Sky and not the mostly glowing reviews like the RCCL Oasis. That is a fact. It may upset the NCL cheerlearders but a fact. Cruise critic members are very objective. If you weed out the 100% postitive and 100% negative review, it is the objective reviewer that counts. Being realistic, it must be depressing for NCL executives to read so many bad reviews of the Epic.

[Mr. Luckytoo]

Dave - great post.

 

In my opinion part of the reason that the Epic's reviews aren't to the level of their other ships is due to NCL's marketing (or improper efforts). Let's face it - Epic isn't designed to appeal to traditional cruisers.

 

The NCL exec's took chances with the design and sometime's it pays off and sometimes it doesn't.

 

The problem with reviews is this - they can have a tendency to be self-fullfilling. People who haven't cruised before are likely to be the target audience for this ship; hence the different non-traditional designs and casino-like decor. Here's the rub the earliest reviews were by more experienced cruisers - not the target audience (based upon my initial assumptions of reading O'Sheehan's comments)

 

Here's the funniest thing. Posters will say that I 'bash' Epic but were they to actually read my CC member review I gave the ship 4 stars! My biggest complaints were more directed to the management of NCL and how they handled (or in my case ignored) the problems that arose.

 

The success or failure of the Epic will depend upon one thing - cabin prices and sales. That's why I find it so surprising that NCL is considering new ships so soon after the Epic's sailing. Why not give it an opportunity to sail and see what the long-term results will be. I mean it's not like these ships are cheap:rolleyes:

[Jerseyboy1]

I agree with you on the open promenade deck - unfortunately it seems we are in the minority. Looking at all the "new" ships (Oasis, Epic and Dream) it seems like the lifeboats now occupy that promenade deck. While I don't like the effect I understand the concept - more balcony's and a higher rate of return for the ship.

 

Yes, I agree about the money aspect, but doesn't the Dream still have a deck above those lifeboats where people can walk and lounge around?

 

I'm asking because I have not sailed that particular ship yet, but the photos I have seen of it seem to show a deck of some kind. If there is a promenade deck of sorts on the dream, then maybe NCL could use that part of the design.

 

Anyway, if you take away the water aspects of the cruise, is it really cruising?:confused:

[Mr. Luckytoo]

Yes, I agree about the money aspect, but doesn't the Dream still have a deck above those lifeboats where people can walk and lounge around?

 

I'm asking because I have not sailed that particular ship yet, but the photos I have seen of it seem to show a deck of some kind. If there is a promenade deck of sorts on the dream, then maybe NCL could use that part of the design.

 

Anyway, if you take away the water aspects of the cruise, is it really cruising?:confused:

 

I just saw Dream leave port last Saturday and no promenade that I could observe from the shore...

 

as for the ship I "believe" it was the RCI CEO who said that the Oasis was so big that people could be on a cruise and not think they were at sea - (something to that extent).

 

Hopefully NCL will stop the bigger...bigger...bigger trend with their new ship(s)

[thejuliet]

Maybe have a couple of "unique restaurants" on each ship rather than try to franchise all the ships services into a sameness. I like the idea of trying all of the different ships and have them feel different. The service on the ships should be consistant.

 

I like walking around the entire out side of the ship as well.

[intrepid_guy]

That's why I find it so surprising that NCL is considering new ships so soon after the Epic's sailing. Why not give it an opportunity to sail and see what the long-term results will be. I mean it's not like these ships are cheap:rolleyes:

 

While I certainly do not know the answer to this question for sure, I would guess that they need to get their orders in asap, as it is (allegedly) it will take until 2013 to deliver. That is 3 years between ships and is traditionally quite a long time.

 

~Intrepid <-- already wants to see plans and artist conceptions...

[snorklinbarb]

Yes, I agree about the money aspect, but doesn't the Dream still have a deck above those lifeboats where people can walk and lounge around?

 

I'm asking because I have not sailed that particular ship yet, but the photos I have seen of it seem to show a deck of some kind. If there is a promenade deck of sorts on the dream, then maybe NCL could use that part of the design.

 

Anyway, if you take away the water aspects of the cruise, is it really cruising?:confused:

 

Somewhere on here I read that it was safety-mandated to have the lifeboat setup like on these new huge ships. Maybe someone can confirm but it may be that there's not an aesthetic option on this issue?

[eroller]

Somewhere on here I read that it was safety-mandated to have the lifeboat setup like on these new huge ships. Maybe someone can confirm but it may be that there's not an aesthetic option on this issue?

 

 

Nope, not safety mandated but definitely safety enhanced. The benefit of having the lifeboats secured in a position outside the hull is that they can be boarded in their stationary, locked position. It's a real time saver. Typically, lifeboats have to be lowered from the deck above down the the Promenade Deck, secured, then loaded before being lowered to the sea.

 

The new design is a major timesaver which is necessary when you have to evacuate 5000+ people in a limited amount of time. This being said, the ships themselves have undergone new safety stability requirements with the intent of never having to use the lifeboats. The newest ships today are designed to stay afloat longer should there be a catastrophic event. The feeling is that it's almost always safer to remain on the larger ship as long as possible rather than evacuate, unless of course there is a severe fire. Any ship will eventually sink if the damage is severe enough, but the new regulations provide enhanced stability so the ship can stay afloat longer.

 

The tradeoff to the new lifeboat design is the traditional promenade deck is history. The promenade deck now, which is typically used as a jogging track, has little view and is truly just a staging area if it were necessary to board the lifeboats.

 

Regarding CARNIVAL DREAM and CARNIVAL MAGIC, yes they have a very extensive open promenade deck above the lifeboats. Why was this done? Simply because this ship design literally ran out of deck space up top. DREAM and MAGIC are based off of a 15 year old ship design, the CARNIVAL DESTINY. Over the years, Carnival has tweaked the design in order to garner more revenue. The design was slightly stretched, 1/2 decks of cabins added, hull hole balconies added, and eventually another full deck of cabins added. The passenger capacity of DREAM is 1000 more passengers than DESTINY, but it's essentially the same ship as far as public space and upper deck space go. This design already had deck space limitations, so a solution had to be forthcoming if Carnival wanted to continue with this design and keep increasing passenger capacity.

 

Joe Farcus, lead architect and interior designer for Carnival decided the solution would be to weld on a large promenade deck which would actually be above the lifeboats. Four jacuzzis were also included, and rather than be a deck for strolling, this deck is for sun worshipers and it's loaded with deck chairs during the day. It's really an extension of the pool deck in a way, but on the sides and back of the ship.

 

As with almost any design feature, there is a tradeoff. Unfortunately for all the balcony cabins above, especially those just a deck or two above the promenade, they now have a view of people sunning and everything that goes along with that. In addition there is a lot of noise, especially from the jacuzzi's, not to mention smokers and the smell of food as Carnival sets up a buffet out there. Worse yet is a lack of privacy as the people sun tanning on this deck look directly up to the balconies above. At night it can be noisy as people are out there partying because all the lounges are just inside that promenade. So there is a major disadvantage from a privacy perspective to all the occupants of those balconies. Also, because there are four jacuzzi's out there, you have people using them at all hours (day and night) and walking through the public lounges with wet bathing suits and no shirts. There is really no other way to get to that deck except through public lounges.

 

Anyway, this is probably more than you wanted to know, but take from it what you will.

 

Ernie

[eroller]

 

The NCL exec's took chances with the design and sometime's it pays off and sometimes it doesn't.

 

 

 

 

What would be really interesting would be to have a look at EPIC's original plans (general arrangement). As you may recall, EPIC was originally touted as the ship with no main show lounge, no buffet restaurant, and no main restaurants. As we know, EPIC was built with all of those features.

 

When Apollo acquired a 50% stake in NCL from Star, what followed was major management changes and a feeling that EPIC as currently designed would simply not be viable. Massive changes were requested to the design, but the ship was already under construction at the shipyard and contracts signed. Only some of the changes could be incorporated at such a late date. As you know, this eventually led to a work stoppage on EPIC and the shipyard seeking alternative buyers for the unfinished hull. Reportedly RCI and MSC Cruises had a look and both passed because the design was unsuitable. I think the shipyard knew they would be stuck with an albatross. Eventually NCL and the shipyard worked things out and we now have EPIC. No one knows exactly what the ship would have been like prior to the changes the shipyard was able to make, or what additional changes NCL wanted but the shipyard was unable to accommodate.

 

One thing is for certain, NCL went to great expense to ensure there will be only one of EPIC. She will be a one-off design and this is probably for the best. It's rare for a major cruise line to build one of anything. It's just not economically sound. There is too much cost involved in designing a new ship for there only to be one, not to mention a loss of economies of scale with sister ships. Anyway, this all speaks volumes as to NCL's confidence in the EPIC design. One seems to be enough for them. It's also interesting you never hear who actually designed EPIC. It seems no one wants to take credit. With most new ships, you hear all about the designers and how proud they are.

 

I think what we will see with the new NCL ships is an enlarged version of the Star/Jewel Class. Absolutely there will be features from EPIC that will be incorporated into the new design, but I don't think the new ships will resemble EPIC in appearance. I also have a feeling the split bathrooms will be history. The wavy cabin design may stay, but tweaked a bit. The real intent of this design is to fit more cabins into the same amount of space. It's a revenue enhancer. Royal Caribbean and Celebrity have a similar design on their newest ships, but because overall the cabins are wider it's not as noticeable. Also, instead of a wave, it's more angular. My understanding is this design incorporates 5% more cabins into the same space of a conventional cabin design.

 

Anyway, it will be interesting to see the new design when details are released.

 

Ernie

[Jerseyboy1]

Ernie, thanks for all the above information on the promenade deck in general and the Carnival Dream in particular. I'm always happy to learn something from people on these boards.

 

Yes, I thought that overhanging lifeboat design was not a regulation and your post seems to confirm it as well. As far as the Dream promenade is concerned, from your post I would gather that maybe this type of deck may not be such a great idea for NCL to adopt afterall.

 

Again thanks for the info..!!

[Mr. Luckytoo]

Wow Ernie thanks for the extra info much appriciated.

 

When discussing the economics of scale that is why there are so many of the new Celebrity S-Class ships - five (5) to be exact. The more you build the less expensive plus you have spare parts for when it comes time to repair.

 

With Oasis/Allure I think that two and thru is applicable just because of the size and expense involved.

 

I think the one thing that NCL has realized is that a new ship will generate interest and higher booking fees. In addition with their courtyard villas concept and studio's they may find that a totally redesigned ship is indicated.

 

Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this: Can you book two (2) people into a studio cabin?

[eroller]

Ernie, thanks for all the above information on the promenade deck in general and the Carnival Dream in particular. I'm always happy to learn something from people on these boards.

 

Yes, I thought that overhanging lifeboat design was not a regulation and your post seems to confirm it as well. As far as the Dream promenade is concerned, from your post I would gather that maybe this type of deck may not be such a great idea for NCL to adopt afterall.

 

Again thanks for the info..!!

 

 

You're welcome. Also, I agree with most of your suggestions previously posted for the new ships, and I have a feeling you will get your wish on several of them. Probably not the promenade or wave cabins though. The current promenade, or lack there of is really for enhanced safety. The wave cabins are a revenue generator. I think they will stay in some form, but hopefully be a bit wider with a redesigned sofa. I'm guessing the split bath will be a thing of the past. Whether you like them or not, they have generated too much negative controversy. Like you I have not sailed on EPIC, but I have spent time on the ship. Spending a short amount of time on the ship doesn't give you the "cruise experience", but it does provide you some ability to assess design accolades and shortcomings.

 

I also think on the new ships we will see larger entertainment venues, as what exists now on EPIC appears to be inadequate for the number of passengers. I would also expect more/larger pools and redesigned slides. The current slides produce a lot of excess water to the decks and this could be considered a safety hazard. It won't take but one lawsuit and you will see some rapid changes.

 

I would also like to see a forward facing lounge, especially if these ships will be cruising more interesting places than the Caribbean. The weather is not always great and it's nice to have an attractive indoor space with great views ahead. This is especially appealing when entering and leaving port. Nothing like having a cocktail and listening to music while watching the scenery in places like the Norwegian Fjords or Alaska.

 

Personally I would also like to see less emphasis on the casino and perhaps more open and airy indoor spaces. The public areas on EPIC seemed rather closed in to me.

 

I do think the Courtyard (ship within a ship) concept will continue. This was my favorite area of EPIC and it was executed very well. We may see this area return to a more midship location like on the current Star/Jewel Class ships.

 

Ernie

[time2cruise1]

Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this: Can you book two (2) people into a studio cabin?

 

Yes you can but would cost more then a standard inside cabin that is 25sf larger and better for more then one passenger.

[eroller]

Wow Ernie thanks for the extra info much appriciated.

 

When discussing the economics of scale that is why there are so many of the new Celebrity S-Class ships - five (5) to be exact. The more you build the less expensive plus you have spare parts for when it comes time to repair.

 

With Oasis/Allure I think that two and thru is applicable just because of the size and expense involved.

 

I think the one thing that NCL has realized is that a new ship will generate interest and higher booking fees. In addition with their courtyard villas concept and studio's they may find that a totally redesigned ship is indicated.

 

Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this: Can you book two (2) people into a studio cabin?

 

 

Good points on economies of scale. Also keep in mind from a crew training perspective it's very advantages to have identical sister ships. Crew can be transferred from one ship to another and there is virtually no learning curve.

 

I agree with you on OASIS/ALLURE for now, but in time we may see more of this design built. In the meantime I think RCI will design another new class, perhaps something between the Freedom and Oasis class size. Stay tuned! The climate is right for new ship orders as the shipyards are desperate. We may even see some go out of business.

 

As you probably know, the Studio cabins were originally designed for two people. The concept did not go over well as there was little incentive to book a small studio, when a standard inside was essentially the same price. It was a brilliant move for NCL to make these single cabins, as it's essentially an untapped cruise market. Interesting though that Carnival (who is very business savvy) seems to be taking the opposite approach, recently discontinuing their 150% single pricing policy and upping it to 200%. I keep track of single pricing because my partner really does not like cruises (unless it's Silversea! LOL) and often times I will go without him. I hope to see the Studio concept continued on the NCL new ships. FYI NCL was certainly not the first to have single cabins, but they are the first to have an entire complex for singles. Regarding your question on the Studios, I don't believe you can obtain double occupancy pricing on them, which would indicate they are sold strictly as singles.

 

Ernie

[Mr. Luckytoo]

You're welcome. Also, I agree with most of your suggestions previously posted for the new ships, and I have a feeling you will get your wish on several of them. Probably not the promenade or wave cabins though. The current promenade, or lack there of is really for enhanced safety. The wave cabins are a revenue generator. I think they will stay in some form, but hopefully be a bit wider with a redesigned sofa. I'm guessing the split bath will be a thing of the past. Whether you like them or not, they have generated too much negative controversy. Like you I have not sailed on EPIC, but I have spent time on the ship. Spending a short amount of time on the ship doesn't give you the "cruise experience", but it does provide you some ability to assess design accolades and shortcomings.

 

I also think on the new ships we will see larger entertainment venues, as what exists now on EPIC appears to be inadequate for the number of passengers. I would also expect more/larger pools and redesigned slides. The current slides produce a lot of excess water to the decks and this could be considered a safety hazard. It won't take but one lawsuit and you will see some rapid changes.

 

I would also like to see a forward facing lounge, especially if these ships will be cruising more interesting places than the Caribbean. The weather is not always great and it's nice to have an attractive indoor space with great views ahead. This is especially appealing when entering and leaving port. Nothing like having a cocktail and listening to music while watching the scenery in places like the Norwegian Fjords or Alaska.

 

Personally I would also like to see less emphasis on the casino and perhaps more open and airy indoor spaces. The public areas on EPIC seemed rather closed in to me.

 

I do think the Courtyard (ship within a ship) concept will continue. This was my favorite area of EPIC and it was executed very well. We may see this area return to a more midship location like on the current Star/Jewel Class ships.

 

Ernie

 

I take it from your post that you were invited to board the ship while in Miami or perhaps the NY mini-cruises?

 

With regard to the open public spaces I agree that the Epic produces that closed in almost Vegas feel - especially with the size of their casino. In order to create a more open atmosphere a promenade could be created but that would reduce the available space for revenue generating space.

 

I really believe that the cabins will need to be enlarged to the size of the Jewel class ships and a return to a traditional toilet in a box will happen.

 

Why do you believe the entertainment venues would be bigger? When you consider the amount of different venues on the Epic while they are individually smaller I would image that when combined the square footage would be similar to that on RCI...:confused:

[intrepid_guy]

Somewhere on here I read that it was safety-mandated to have the lifeboat setup like on these new huge ships. Maybe someone can confirm but it may be that there's not an aesthetic option on this issue?

 

I was pretty sure I read the same thing somewhere. So promenade decks may go by the wayside due to maritime laws.

 

~Intrepid <-- dont bother me anyway

[Mr. Luckytoo]

FYI NCL was certainly not the first to have single cabins, but they are the first to have an entire complex for singles. Regarding your question on the Studios, I don't believe you can obtain double occupancy pricing on them, which would indicate they are sold strictly as singles.

 

Ernie

 

Who/What line has single cabins?

 

I would think that this single cabin is another variation of the ship within a ship concept and could be expanded as well as the courtyard villas...