NCL's NEW Ships...

[eroller]

Who/What line has single cabins?

 

I would think that this single cabin is another variation of the ship within a ship concept and could be expanded as well as the courtyard villas...

 

 

P&O's AZURA has both inside and outside singles. They look very nicely designed too!

 

Ernie

 

Inside Single

 

Outside Single

[intrepid_guy]

.

 

Why do you believe the entertainment venues would be bigger? When you consider the amount of different venues on the Epic while they are individually smaller I would image that when combined the square footage would be similar to that on RCI...:confused:

 

I dont know if I agree with this thought either. I sailed on EPIC and one of the things I kept commenting on is that it did not feel like there was 4045 people on the ship and I think a large part of that is the smaller venues. Giving people more choices divides up the people giving a feeling of a more intimate space. I never experienced a venue that felt overcrowded or too small. With so many dining and entertainment options, people could move freely throughout the ship. I think this is one of the greatest innovations EPIC brings to the table.

 

I want to see these new ships carry on this idea in addition to the adults area. I will say that a 3rd set of elevators may be helpful. :D

 

~Intrepid <-- dont cramp my style!

[Mr. Luckytoo]

I dont know if I agree with this thought either. I sailed on EPIC and one of the things I kept commenting on is that it did not feel like there was 4045 people on the ship and I think a large part of that is the smaller venues. Giving people more choices divides up the people giving a feeling of a more intimate space. I never experienced a venue that felt overcrowded or too small. With so many dining and entertainment options, people could move freely throughout the ship. I think this is one of the greatest innovations EPIC brings to the table.

 

I want to see these new ships carry on this idea in addition to the adults area. I will say that a 3rd set of elevators may be helpful. :D

 

~Intrepid <-- dont cramp my style!

 

I agree with you - however on the TA due to the dreadful weather there were times when the venues DID feel crowded. The very first Legends show there were angry mobs outside the theatre door - and I do mean ANGRY! The Spiegel Tent was small but comfortable and do do what those performs do in that small area is remarkable (even if you don't like the show). I too think that a 3rd set of elevators would have reduced a lot of walking and been beneficial as well.

 

Gotta admit I really liked the red/blue on the elevators as compared to port/starboard...funny but hardly anyone mentions this, oh well.

[eroller]

 

Why do you believe the entertainment venues would be bigger? When you consider the amount of different venues on the Epic while they are individually smaller I would image that when combined the square footage would be similar to that on RCI...:confused:

 

 

A 681 seat theater for a 4000+ passenger ship is simply not sufficient, especially if you are planning feature entertainment like Blue Man Group. These performers have to put on too many shows just to provide ample opportunity for all passengers to have a chance to view the show. Because they have to put on so many performances, it essentially makes the theater useless for other performances, at least during peak times. This really places limits on what can be done, as the rest of the EPIC venues are really not that large and have their own limitations. I have a feeling that adding the theater, even though it's relatively small, is one of the things NCL management really fought for with the shipyard.

 

As for the comparison to Royal Caribbean, there are far more large public spaces on OASIS for instance. For starters the main theater can accommodate almost 1400 passengers and is very versatile. Other large venues include the Aqua Theater (750 passengers) and the Studio B complex which seats 775. In addition there is the large Royal Promenade for parades and dance events, and many smaller venues like Jazz of 4 for live jazz, Comedy Live for comedy, Blaze for nightclub dancing, Bolero's for Latin music and dancing, and Dazzles for big band and vocals (it's a stunning space). In addition there are too many bars and lounges to list here. It's far more than anything offered on EPIC.

 

Ernie

[rav4lady]

Well, the Oasis may have larger areas but I didn't hear anything about the entertainment being so great. And their rates were much higher so the Epic wins for me. Haven't sailed on her yet, but I do hope they continue the studio concept and maybe add outside studios and make the lounge truly just for the studios. Also would like to see a larger adults only area with a pool and more offered.:D

[eroller]

Well, the Oasis may have larger areas but I didn't hear anything about the entertainment being so great.

 

 

Actually the entertainment on OASIS is superb. I think the best on the high seas along with Disney and EPIC but that is just my opinion.

 

It's all personal preference. EPIC is more "Vegas" style entertainment, and OASIS is more "Broadway". Personally I'm more Broadway and a full scale production of Hairspray and Chicago is very exciting to me. Blue Man Group and Legends not so much. I go to Vegas often and those type of shows just never appealed with me. I also love the ice skating shows and the diving show on OASIS. There is also a pretty impressive acrobatic style production show. This is in addition to all the bands, nightclub, water fountain show, parades down the Royal Promenade, Jazz Club, Quest, and Comedy Club. Just like NCL has an arrangement with Nickelodeon, Royal Caribbean has one with Dreamworks, so all their characters are onboard. The kids center on OASIS even has a small theater, and they put on a really cool black light puppet show for the kids that takes place under water. It's supposed to be for kids but it's so well done the adults love it too. Trust me there is no boredom on OASIS, it's just that the style of entertainment is somewhat different than EPIC.

 

Both ships offer amazing entertainment offerings, and I would be willing to bet the most diverse on the high seas.

 

Ernie

[Mr. Luckytoo]

Well, the Oasis may have larger areas but I didn't hear anything about the entertainment being so great. And their rates were much higher so the Epic wins for me. Haven't sailed on her yet, but I do hope they continue the studio concept and maybe add outside studios and make the lounge truly just for the studios. Also would like to see a larger adults only area with a pool and more offered.:D

 

I'll take a broadway musical (Hairspray or Chicago) over Blue Man Group.

 

Epic has Cirque & Howl @the moon which is unique to them while Oasis has the Aquatheatre which is unique to them.

[negc]

I'll take a broadway musical (Hairspray or Chicago) over Blue Man Group.

 

Epic has Cirque & Howl @the moon which is unique to them while Oasis has the Aquatheatre which is unique to them.

 

I won't get into a debate about whether or not a musical like Hairspray or Chicago is better entertainment than Blue Man Group or Legends,(I'd enjoy seeing any or all of them) but I do think that all of them, need to have a venue with a greater capacity than 600 to properly accommodate the number of guests on a 4,000 plus passenger ship. Oasis offers that while Epic does not. Capacity of the other entertainment venues - comedy, jazz and other clubs seems adequate on both ships. However, to successfully accommodate the number of passengers on board, a bigger theater would seem to be a must for any new NCL ship.

NCL clearly understood some of the drawbacks to the original design of the EPIC but perhaps even after the changes were made, they realized the necessity of limiting themselves to building only one. What they will come up with in their future new-builds will be interesting to see and perhaps the designers of their new ships won't be as reticent at being associated with these ships.:) I also think that they might want to take another look at whatever company handles their advertising and promotion as they certainly didn't create as much buzz as a ship as unique as the EPIC would have been expected to generate.

[Mr. Luckytoo]

The theater on the Epic did seem small considering the size of the ship but the one thing I haven't read is anyone missing a Blue Man Group show!

 

One of the things I did like is having smaller venue's for 2nd city and the Cirque show. Too many times in the larger theater's people can get "lost".

 

I guess my biggest question to NCL about their new ship would be this: What passenger capacity are you aiming for? Just looking at the reviews of their current ships I would be inclined to think that another Jewel class ship would be indicated.

[negc]

The theater on the Epic did seem small considering the size of the ship but the one thing I haven't read is anyone missing a Blue Man Group show!

I believe that someone attributed it to the number of shows they have to schedule so that people won't be shut out from seeing the show due to the limited capacity of the venue. With a larger theater they could accommodate everyone and schedule fewer performances and perhaps then use the theater for more and different shows.:)For something like Second City, a smaller venue probably works much better and provides a more intimate setting.

[intrepid_guy]

I won't get into a debate about whether or not a musical like Hairspray or Chicago is better entertainment than Blue Man Group or Legends,(I'd enjoy seeing any or all of them) but I do think that all of them, need to have a venue with a greater capacity than 600 to properly accommodate the number of guests on a 4,000 plus passenger ship. Oasis offers that while Epic does not. Capacity of the other entertainment venues - comedy, jazz and other clubs seems adequate on both ships. However, to successfully accommodate the number of passengers on board, a bigger theater would seem to be a must for any new NCL ship.

NCL clearly understood some of the drawbacks to the original design of the EPIC but perhaps even after the changes were made, they realized the necessity of limiting themselves to building only one. What they will come up with in their future new-builds will be interesting to see and perhaps the designers of their new ships won't be as reticent at being associated with these ships.:) I also think that they might want to take another look at whatever company handles their advertising and promotion as they certainly didn't create as much buzz as a ship as unique as the EPIC would have been expected to generate.

 

The theater on the EPIC holds about 700. Blue Man is scheduled over 3 nights with 2 shows a night. That means that 4200 people can see the show. Then there is Legends, it runs a similar schedule. Now as Luckytoo said, everyone has been able to see the shows that want to. During our week on the EPIC, there was room nightly at BMG and it was not sold out. The evening I saw the show, there was about 10-15% empty seats. Obviously, there is no problem with the venue as is. For any show, on any ship there is going to be a percentage of people that do not want to see it. Even if that number is only 20% that is nearly 1000 people not going.

 

Maybe, just maybe... NCL was forward thinking enough to realize a large capacity theatre was NOT necessary. Maybe.....

 

~Intrepid <-- saw all the shows he wanted to see.

[eroller]

 

Maybe, just maybe... NCL was forward thinking enough to realize a large capacity theatre was NOT necessary. Maybe.....

 

 

 

This is doubtful. My understanding is that EPIC was originally designed without a main theater. I have heard that it's one of the first things that Apollo, the new co-owners of NCL at the time insisted upon. Unfortunately adding a large theater to a ship where the plans are finalized and contract signed is no easy task. I think what they ended up with is the EPIC theater, which is probably a compromise between NCL and the shipyard.

 

I guess we will see just how happy NCL is with the theater size when plans for the new ships are released. It's going to be really interesting to see just how much of the EPIC design actually makes it to the new ships.

 

Ernie

[kikki21]

I think I read somewhere that NCL wasn't looking to build another Epic but a smaller version of it - I would say combine the best bits of the Epic with more traditional ship design of the Gem/Jewel.

I love the interior design of the Epic and think they should definitely keep that. They should go back to a main Atrium design as that's a real wow factor on ships.

A Courtyayd complex would look better in the middle of a ship for sure and yes that would make more room for larger pools and also a bit more of a promenade deck.

I don't have a problem with the Wave design or the bathroom concept but after all the controversy, I wouldn't be surprised if they went back to a traditional design again.

I think the new kind of entertainment on cruise ships as regards the Epic and the Oasis of the Seas is where the market is heading as people want better entertainment options now. I wouldn't be surprised to see many more pop/rock acts doing cruise ship turns.

[sjbdtz]

This is doubtful. My understanding is that EPIC was originally designed without a main theater. I have heard that it's one of the first things that Apollo, the new co-owners of NCL at the time insisted upon. Unfortunately adding a large theater to a ship where the plans are finalized and contract signed is no easy task. I think what they ended up with is the EPIC theater, which is probably a compromise between NCL and the shipyard.

 

I guess we will see just how happy NCL is with the theater size when plans for the new ships are released. It's going to be really interesting to see just how much of the EPIC design actually makes it to the new ships.

 

Ernie

 

On what, do you base these suppositions?

 

Perhaps what Apollo wanted was more space dedicated to the casino, which resulted in the elimination of the center elevator bank.... and the compromise was a 3-storey atrium.

 

Perhaps the theatre was designed this way from day 1.

 

 

Of course, "I" don't know...... do you? :rolleyes:

[Planer's Edge]

 

I am not quoting one specific post, by you, but am commenting on your "total works".

 

 

 

 

Everything you seem to post is wanting NCL's Epic to be more like your preferred RCI or Celebrity ships. NCL has been innovating the cruise industry and may have not hit the point real well with the Epic. But, I certainly don't want them to become RCI or Celebrity. Viva la difference!!

 

PE

[eroller]

On what, do you base these suppositions?

 

Perhaps what Apollo wanted was more space dedicated to the casino, which resulted in the elimination of the center elevator bank.... and the compromise was a 3-storey atrium.

 

Perhaps the theatre was designed this way from day 1.

 

 

Of course, "I" don't know...... do you? :rolleyes:

 

 

Nope, don't know for sure and I made it clear in previous posts that anything regarding design changes to EPIC is pure speculation. This being said, I do have some contacts at NCL and certain things were hinted at in our conversations.

 

Oh yes, and one other little bit of information that helped me come to this conclusion. NCL's publicly touted as EPIC in early press releases as the ship with "no main theater". The Epic Theater looks and feels pretty much like a main theater to me, just like on any other ship, expect built to a smaller scale and not as impressive.

 

Anyway, like I said, lets wait and see the new ships and what the theater size is.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Ernie

[newmexicoNita]

I may be in the minority of cruise opinion (but maybe the majority of this NCL board) but I love the fact the Epic is the step child of the NCL fleet. Yes some function was sacraficed for style but that wins points with me. I love the fact to be cruising on a one of a kind ship. The Jewel and the Pearl are almost identical. While you can have great cruises, the similiarities are a bit of a downer for the frequent NCL cruiser. The RCCL Oasis is identical to the RCCL Allure. How boring. Both new RCCL ships will also be in the same port. How boring! I love how different Epic looks from the outside. I love how different the cabins are from other cruise ships. I love the Villa area and the creative entertainment options. Epic is so different. I know NCL is going in a different direction and I think long term, Epic will be a success. It may be the step child but she is radical and different. How cool is that?

It is realistic to see that Epic has gotten mixed reviews here on cruise critic. It has the same mixed reviews of the NCL Sky and not the mostly glowing reviews like the RCCL Oasis. That is a fact. It may upset the NCL cheerlearders but a fact. Cruise critic members are very objective. If you weed out the 100% postitive and 100% negative review, it is the objective reviewer that counts. Being realistic, it must be depressing for NCL executives to read so many bad reviews of the Epic.

 

I personally love the Jewel Class NCL ships, but am glad to see another catagory or design. You can do just so many repeats before it becomes dull and unappealing.

 

I think my biggest complaint might be the size. I really think all cruise companies are going overboard with ships that hold 4000 and more passengers.

 

As for bad reviews, I just took a look at those posted on CC and most of them are prety positive. The negatives are based on 2 or 3 concepts some people do not like or the first sailing. There are several reviews that give the Epic 4 or 5 Stars. Some people just have trouble with change.

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

Actually the entertainment on OASIS is superb. I think the best on the high seas along with Disney and EPIC but that is just my opinion.

 

It's all personal preference. EPIC is more "Vegas" style entertainment, and OASIS is more "Broadway". Personally I'm more Broadway and a full scale production of Hairspray and Chicago is very exciting to me. Blue Man Group and Legends not so much. I go to Vegas often and those type of shows just never appealed with me. I also love the ice skating shows and the diving show on OASIS. There is also a pretty impressive acrobatic style production show. This is in addition to all the bands, nightclub, water fountain show, parades down the Royal Promenade, Jazz Club, Quest, and Comedy Club. Just like NCL has an arrangement with Nickelodeon, Royal Caribbean has one with Dreamworks, so all their characters are onboard. The kids center on OASIS even has a small theater, and they put on a really cool black light puppet show for the kids that takes place under water. It's supposed to be for kids but it's so well done the adults love it too. Trust me there is no boredom on OASIS, it's just that the style of entertainment is somewhat different than EPIC.

 

Both ships offer amazing entertainment offerings, and I would be willing to bet the most diverse on the high seas.

 

Ernie

I am not a Blue Man group type of person so would probably not be thrilled with the Epic, but I do think we all need to remember, like food, entertainment is very subjective. I don't believe it is possible to say Oasis is better or Epic is better, other than stressing this is an opinion only.

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

Everything you seem to post is wanting NCL's Epic to be more like your preferred RCI or Celebrity ships. NCL has been innovating the cruise industry and may have not hit the point real well with the Epic. But' date=' I certainly don't want them to become RCI or Celebrity. Viva la difference!!

 

PE[/color']

 

Thank you PE> again we see things the same way.

 

Nita

[Planer's Edge]

thank you pe> again we see things the same way.

 

Nita

 

We usually do. ;)

 

PE

[Mr. Luckytoo]

Everything you seem to post is wanting NCL's Epic to be more like your preferred RCI or Celebrity ships. NCL has been innovating the cruise industry and may have not hit the point real well with the Epic. But' date=' I certainly don't want them to become RCI or Celebrity. Viva la difference!![/color']

 

PE

 

Why would someone want every cruiseline to be the same - variety is the spice of life. In fact RCI is VERY different from Celebrity and I'm glad that it is.

 

I've sailed NCL four times on 3 different ships. My favorite was the 14-day Spirit sailing. I enjoyed my EPIC trip much more than my Sky sailing.

 

My critique of the Epic is simple - it's a good product but it fell short of what I believe could have been a great product. Unfortunately too many people believe that good enough is where they should stop and they fail to become even better. GM is a great example of that.

 

The problem, in my opinion, is that NCL hasn't determined what they want to be. Celebrity, for example, is known for their service, food and 'having to dress up'

 

Carnival is the 'fun ship'

 

RCI is thought of as the family cruiseline

 

NCL is known for 'freestyle' but what is that really? When I looked at the promo materials for the Epic the Courtyard areas were highly touted and the nightclubs (Bliss) gave the impession of chic elegance. However that wasn't what I observed when I sailed the Epic.

 

Freestyle makes it seem like you do what you want when you want - (talk about catering to a self-centered egotistical market). The reality is that most dining requires reservations (specialty venues) and the shows are reservation based as well. Freestyle is different than the cattle-call MDR on RCI but that doesn't make it any better.

 

On NCL's new ships I would hope they keep the Buffet area and La Cucina on the lower floor as on the Epic, it was a nice overflow region.

 

Having the Spice/H2O area is a good concept, especially the stadium seating but I would make the pool larger.

 

The Marketplace on the Epic - Does ANYONE really know what they were trying to accomplish with that?

 

Another thing I would eliminate is the art gallery - begone. As well as the photo area. That space would be better utilized for more specialty restaruants or meeting rooms.

 

As for entertainment - contract with outside groups like Cirque and build a real theatre for them to perform, not the little Spiegel Tent. In fact have a 1500+ theatre and book musical groups on board and have entertainment themed cruised. For example have a Dave Matthews Cruise where the Band plays 3 times during the cruise with video feeds on the main deck! Or maybe an American Idol Cruise or an America's Got Talent cruise. Let the performers stay in the Presidential Suite and just charge extra for the other Villas.

 

I'm just saying that if you want radical change it COULD be done but don't try and copy another cruiseline. For example saying the Epic has ice skating (because RCI has an ice rink) is just plain silly.

[Barb Nahoumi]

Bigger is not always better. The behemoths cannot access the smaller more exotic ports. Passengers must be tendered in, or the ports dredged to accomodate the huge ships. This can distroy marine life in the area.

 

Build one or two midsized ships which can fit most ports. Equip all cabins with conventional bathrooms and ditch the wavy walls. They might tend to make me dizzy anyway. I've never been on the Epic, because that ship doesn't interest me.

[newmexicoNita]

Bigger is not always better. The behemoths cannot access the smaller more exotic ports. Passengers must be tendered in, or the ports dredged to accomodate the huge ships. This can distroy marine life in the area.

 

Build one or two midsized ships which can fit most ports. Equip all cabins with conventional bathrooms and ditch the wavy walls. They might tend to make me dizzy anyway. I've never been on the Epic, because that ship doesn't interest me.

 

My feelings. When we were on the Spirit about 18 months ago we discussed this with some of the staff. They were not thrilled with the EPic plans because of the limitations for ports. Oh well, to each his own. I don't know if we will try the Epic or not. Part of me just wants to see what it is like, the other says, stick with what you know and love.

 

Nita

[WakeView4Us]

I'm with you on the studios...they'd be silly to not put them on new ships.