Marseille: Gritty Charm, Improving per Wash. Post

[TLCOhio]

From the Washington Post travel section coming out Sunday, they have this headline: "Marseille is having a makeover, though there's still lots of gritty charm" with these highlights: "The old port is the heart of Marseille . . . in an ancient Mediterranean port with a modern reputation as a center of organized crime: Marseille is about as authentically paradoxical a place as you'll find in Western Europe. In the past decade, France's second-largest city has undergone a dramatic makeover, accelerated by a high-speed train that now connects it to Paris in just over three hours. A bouillabaisse of European and North African immigrants, Marseille has evolved into a town that is young and cosmopolitan while keeping its gritty charm. "

 

This is an interesting look at this city and has a photo gallery to help prepare for a cruise stop here.

 

Full story at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artsandliving/travel/index.html?nid=roll_travel

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

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[Hlitner]

We thought the article interesting although not sure we would agree with their overall assessment. Marseille does have its charms, but we still think that for most cruise passengers (especially those who do not travel extensively in France) this port is better utilized as a gateway to Provence. Since Aix en Provence is so easy to get to on one's own (plenty of inexpensive trains) it is hard to justify spending a day in Marseille. We do think one can make an argument to take an early train to Aix, spend a few hours (and lunch on the Cours Mirabeau), than a train back to Marseille in time to enjoy a couple of hours in that city. This is a nice way to spend a day for us independent travelers when we do not choose to rent a car.

 

Hank

[crenee44]

Great info! Thanks

 

How easy would it be for a group of 10 to take the train so we could see both areas in a 10 stop?

[TLCOhio]

We thought the article interesting although not sure we would agree with their overall assessment. Marseille does have its charms, but we still think that for most cruise passengers (especially those who do not travel extensively in France) this port is better utilized as a gateway to Provence. Since Aix en Provence is so easy to get to on one's own (plenty of inexpensive trains) it is hard to justify spending a day in Marseille. We do think one can make an argument to take an early train to Aix, spend a few hours (and lunch on the Cours Mirabeau), than a train back to Marseille in time to enjoy a couple of hours in that city. This is a nice way to spend a day for us independent travelers when we do not choose to rent a car. Hank

 

crenee44: Great info! Thanks. How easy would it be for a group of 10 to take the train so we could see both areas in a 10 stop?

 

Great and good insights by Hank on the wonder and charm of Provence. Much to see and enjoy there. Marseille might be "better"' date=' but Provence has so much beauty and charm. Below are a few visuals for what is there to see and love in and around Provence.

 

On crenee44's question, a train for a group of ten is possible, but you might consider getting two rental cars and exploring Provence in that way with your large partyu. A car gives you much more flexibility to see, stop and explore better these charm countrysides.

 

[b']Why do people love Provence?[/b] It is a region having a love affair with the land, earth and environment. The landscape is lush and verdant. Open-air markets have baskets of fresh herbs, fruits, flowers, fabrics, etc. The colorful spirit of the Mediterranean fills the air. Provence is nature at its purest. The sky is a piercing shade of blue. Fields are abundant and the air is clear. The climate ensures that spring, summer and fall yield magnificent and varied harvests. Throughout France, Provence is known for the best of everything natural. People in the area take great pride in these natural traditions for what they grow and how it is prepared in each village and every kitchen.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 26,850 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

 

In the heart of Provence, this is the famed Roman-built Pont du Gard. It's an amazing engineer accomplishment:

 

 

 

Here’s a sampling of the fun at a market day in Provence:

 

 

 

 

Here we are walking in Nimes towards its Roman arena. There are nearby historic temple and aqueduct structures that are among the best-preserved in all of the former empire. Cars are banished from the compact old city dotted with other ruins, enhancing the feel of yesteryear. The Maison Carre is an almost impossibly pristine Roman temple in Nimes.:

 

 

 

Les Baux is historically great and interesting, plus it has this wonderful dining palace right nearby at L'Oustau de Beaumaniere. This is the outside of its building and also how they prepared our seafood dining delight in a pastry shaped fish. Cute food and very good, too!

 

 

 

[Hlitner]

Loved TLCs post about why people love Provence. And yes, count DW and I as two who have fallen as victims to the charms of Provence. We agree with TLC about having a car as much of Provence is not accessible by train. But not sure we would get a car if it was just to go between Marseille and Aix since the trains are direct and run very often. For those who really are curious about Provence we would recommend reading Peter Mayle's famous (some in Provence would say "infamous") book titled "A Year in Provence" which would be in any public library or book store. He did follow this best seller with another book called "Toujours Provence" which is another great read for those wanting to understand the special atmosphere of Provence. These books really caused a love-hate situation with long-term residents and visitors to Provence because it made the region too darn popular (and also increased prices). A port call is a great way to get a fast introduction to this amazing region, but an extended land trip is the best way to sample its charms. After several visits to the region (both on cruises and driving trips) we finally gave-in to the charms and rented an apartment in St Remy for a couple of weeks. Our only regret was that we did not stay for a couple of months (perhaps next time).

 

Hank

[browneyes7]

TLC....Thanks for posting the photos! I always enjoy seeing them! :)

[hubofhockey]

We thought the article interesting although not sure we would agree with their overall assessment. Marseille does have its charms, but we still think that for most cruise passengers (especially those who do not travel extensively in France) this port is better utilized as a gateway to Provence. Since Aix en Provence is so easy to get to on one's own (plenty of inexpensive trains) it is hard to justify spending a day in Marseille. We do think one can make an argument to take an early train to Aix, spend a few hours (and lunch on the Cours Mirabeau), than a train back to Marseille in time to enjoy a couple of hours in that city. This is a nice way to spend a day for us independent travelers when we do not choose to rent a car.

 

Hank

 

I was thinking about a boat ride that goes by the Calanques. But maybe your advice is better. Thanks, we'll look at options in Provence.

[TLCOhio]

Loved TLCs post about why people love Provence. And yes, count DW and I as two who have fallen as victims to the charms of Provence. We agree with TLC about having a car as much of Provence is not accessible by train. But not sure we would get a car if it was just to go between Marseille and Aix since the trains are direct and run very often. Hank

 

browneyes7: TLC....Thanks for posting the photos! I always enjoy seeing them!

 

Agree with Hank that if you just want to go to Aix' date=' then a car would not be needed. You can do that by train. [b']Much depends on how much you want to see and explore of the lovely countryside in Provence.[/b] It's great, but challenging, to decide what you do during port stops in this charming southern areas of France.

 

THANKS to browneyes7 for the kind and encouraging comments on the pictures.

 

Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 26,900 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[Hlitner]

I was thinking about a boat ride that goes by the Calanques. But maybe your advice is better. Thanks, we'll look at options in Provence.

 

If you are interested in a quiet relaxing day and interesting geological formations that boat ride would be a decent option. On the other hand, if we start trying to compare Pont du Gard or Les Baux to the Calanques there would be little doubt where we would go for our day (hint----it would not be the Calanques).

 

Hank

[hubofhockey]

If you are interested in a quiet relaxing day and interesting geological formations that boat ride would be a decent option. On the other hand, if we start trying to compare Pont du Gard or Les Baux to the Calanques there would be little doubt where we would go for our day (hint----it would not be the Calanques).

 

Hank

 

No doubt the kids (13 and 11) could get quite bored on the boat ride. I didn't realize the Provence was doable from Marseille. We already have a full day in Monaco. For that, we had the oceanographic museum and Eze planned. But we can head back to that area for Provence. I'll have to figure out logistics with the train. Thanks again.

[TLCOhio]

No doubt the kids (13 and 11) could get quite bored on the boat ride. I didn't realize the Provence was doable from Marseille. We already have a full day in Monaco. For that, we had the oceanographic museum and Eze planned. But we can head back to that area for Provence. I'll have to figure out logistics with the train. Thanks again.

 

Great added points/hints from Hank. YES, check your logistics more. From Marseille, you can do much for these key areas of Provence.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 26,900 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[hubofhockey]

Thank you Hank and Terry. I'll figure out the train logistics. But Aix-en-Provence looks like the call from Marseille. Looks like something good for the kids (and adults) might be Foundation Vasarely, even if it requires a bus ride or taxi. If not, I'm sure the town itself looks like a good morning/afternoon.

[hubofhockey]

I see Arles is pretty close to Marseille as well. Maybe that will get the nod over Aix-en-Provence. This Rick Steves video has me leaning that way.

 

[TLCOhio]

Thank you Hank and Terry. I'll figure out the train logistics. But Aix-en-Provence looks like the call from Marseille. Looks like something good for the kids (and adults) might be Foundation Vasarely, even if it requires a bus ride or taxi. If not, I'm sure the town itself looks like a good morning/afternoon.

 

Ljberkow: I see Arles is pretty close to Marseille as well. Maybe that will get the nod over Aix-en-Provence. This Rick Steves video has me leaning that way.

 

Lots of great things in BOTH Aix and Arles. Here are my notes on these two towns' date=' plus more nearby.

 

[b']AIX-EN-PROVENCE[/b] (population of 125,000) with Cezanne's studio on the road to Entremont; university town founded 122 B.C. as first Roman settlement in Gaul, near thermal springs, dining at Gu et Fils. An elegant and beautiful town, the visitor will enjoy discovering its ‘thousand fountains’ as he or she roams through its labyrinth of narrow streets. Aix-en-Provence is also renowned worldwide for its unique classical music festival.

 

Car travel to such nearby areas as ARLES, highest priority area city with Roman ruins, including 20,000 seat arena where bull fights are held in the summer; founded 49 B.C. by Julius Caesar, population of 52,000, Van Gogh's former home. Tarascon has its 15th century castle. LES BAUX is a very neat medieval village with great views that has no major population now, but tourist flock to soak up its history and great views. You should dine right near there at L'Oustau de Beaumaniere for ONE OF THE BEST MEALS YOU CAN HAVE IN FRANCE (lunch is more affordable).

 

This website gives some excellent info on the area, plus this excellent Michelin two-star rated dining place:

http://www.relaischateaux.com/en/search-book/hotel-restaurant/oustau/region

 

NIMES was settled 121 B.C. and has a population of 140,000. Around the time of Julius Caesar, Nimes was a bustling city on the strategic Via Domitia linking Rome to Iberia/Spain. Nimes's arena, temple and nearby aqueduct are among the best-preserved in all of the former empire. Cars are banished from the compact old city dotted with other ruins, enhancing the feel of yesteryear. The Maison Carre is an almost impossibly pristine Roman temple.

 

ST. REMY has its Roman ruins, a population of 9000 and is the setting of world-famous literature. Saint-Remy is one of the most representative of Provençal towns and allows the visitor to appreciate the true charm of this oft-celebrated region of the country. It comes as no surprise that Saint Remy, like Cannes or Saint Tropez, is a destination for many well-known personalities. This Gallo-Roman village is on the plains 20 km south of Avignon. Residents more recent than the Romans include Dr. Schweitzer, Dr. Nostradamus and Van Gogh. The picturesque, old village is protected by the circular 14th-century wall which is lined by its protective circle of buildings. Its dolphin fountain is located in the shaded square in front of a 16th century old convent. This is a busy, active village, with a good selection of restaurants and hotels for the traveller. Among the shops are a few with some regional pottery, including some beautiful sunflower plates influenced by Van Gogh. The road between St. Remy and the autoroute (at Cavaillon, 17 km to the east) is a scenic drive out of the past: the road is lined by plane trees.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 26,900 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[Hlitner]

I see Arles is pretty close to Marseille as well. Maybe that will get the nod over Aix-en-Provence. This Rick Steves video has me leaning that way.

 

 

Arles is an interesting city although we think Aix is slightly more attractive. And yes, getting to Arles on the train is about as easy as going to Aix although its a slightly longer ride. My thought about Arles is that it makes even more sense when you rent a car since you can easily add Pont du Gard to that trip. At the risk of being politcally "incorrect" I will post something we noticed when we stopped in Arles in the spring of 09 while we were spending a few weeks in St Remy. We drove to Arles to stop at their weekly market and just enjoy the city (we had not been there in about 15 years). At the outdoor market we were somewhat surprised to see that the overwhelming majority of of locals were wearing

hijab's. On our last visit we did not recall seeing any Muslims but now, it seems like this city has a huge Muslim population. The result was that many of the stalls at the market were selling items targeted at the local Muslim population which is a different product mix that one would expect to find with a non-Muslim population. There has been much written about France's large Muslim population having an impact on traditional French culture, food, etc and this was the first time we saw this first hand. We have also been in France while there were huge demonstrations against McDonalds because the French saw this fast-food invasion ruining their culture. After spending time in Arles we think they have much bigger cultural issues than McDonalds.

 

Hank

[hubofhockey]

Arles is an interesting city although we think Aix is slightly more attractive. And yes, getting to Arles on the train is about as easy as going to Aix although its a slightly longer ride. My thought about Arles is that it makes even more sense when you rent a car since you can easily add Pont du Gard to that trip. At the risk of being politcally "incorrect" I will post something we noticed when we stopped in Arles in the spring of 09 while we were spending a few weeks in St Remy. We drove to Arles to stop at their weekly market and just enjoy the city (we had not been there in about 15 years). At the outdoor market we were somewhat surprised to see that the overwhelming majority of of locals were wearing

hijab's. On our last visit we did not recall seeing any Muslims but now, it seems like this city has a huge Muslim population. The result was that many of the stalls at the market were selling items targeted at the local Muslim population which is a different product mix that one would expect to find with a non-Muslim population. There has been much written about France's large Muslim population having an impact on traditional French culture, food, etc and this was the first time we saw this first hand. We have also been in France while there were huge demonstrations against McDonalds because the French saw this fast-food invasion ruining their culture. After spending time in Arles we think they have much bigger cultural issues than McDonalds.

 

Hank

 

Steves also mentions the issue of that population (Algerian and Moroccan) not integrating well into the French society. I still like the fact that Arles has the Roman ruins. We'll see.

[TLCOhio]

I still like the fact that Arles has the Roman ruins. We'll see.

 

The Roman ruins in Provence are really great. Some say better than in Italy. Those in France were not plundered that much as happened during the "Dark Ages" in Italy. Pont du Gard is really amazing. How they built it in that era without modern equipment is fascinating. Below is another visual of that unique structure.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 26,950 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

 

 

In the heart of Provence, the famed Roman-built Pont du Gard is an amazing engineering accomplishment:

 

[hubofhockey]

Hank or Terry,

 

I think the car rental does make sense because our ship leaves at 6 pm and there is a train that arrives back from Arles at 5 pm. That's cutting it too close. The train before that leaves Arles around 2 pm and would give us only 4 hours there (probably less when you consider we would show up at train station several minutes early).

 

One of the obstacles I'm seeing is price of cars with automatic as I can't drive a manual (stick). It may be lame. But that's all I know. Right now, a Ford Focus is $233 all in, except for gas. I could bring my own garmin and just load France maps on it and maybe Italy as well for walking. But my guess is that we would also add in two taxis back and forth from Avis.

 

Are one-day rentals always kind of high? I wonder if there is some sort of premium charge because I am not from the EU. I will say that the jump from stick to automatic seems to be $75 or more and that could be much of this. My other concerns are parking and othe fees just adding up.

[Hlitner]

Hank or Terry,

 

I think the car rental does make sense because our ship leaves at 6 pm and there is a train that arrives back from Arles at 5 pm. That's cutting it too close. The train before that leaves Arles around 2 pm and would give us only 4 hours there (probably less when you consider we would show up at train station several minutes early).

 

One of the obstacles I'm seeing is price of cars with automatic as I can't drive a manual (stick). It may be lame. But that's all I know. Right now, a Ford Focus is $233 all in, except for gas. I could bring my own garmin and just load France maps on it and maybe Italy as well for walking. But my guess is that we would also add in two taxis back and forth from Avis.

 

Are one-day rentals always kind of high? I wonder if there is some sort of premium charge because I am not from the EU. I will say that the jump from stick to automatic seems to be $75 or more and that could be much of this. My other concerns are parking and othe fees just adding up.

 

As you have discovered, if you do not know how to drive a stick you are going to pay a lot of extra dollars. The problem you have discovered, is most Europeans still prefer a stick shift (we love them too) and most of the rental car companies charge a lot extra for automatics. In fact, some rental car locations may not even have automatics. Parking can add some Euros, but would not be a major expense. Gas, on the other hand, costs around $9 a gallon (last time we looked). Unless you quickly learn how to drive a stick, or find another couple on your Roll Call Board who can handle a stick, you probably will not find a good (inexpensive) solution. You are also correct that you will need to use taxis within Marseille since the port is not too close to the port. If you really have your heart set on going to Arles you could use that earlier train and then spend some time in the old port area of Marseille before returning to the ship. Some of the cruise lines do run shuttle buses between the port and old port although the shuttle cost is often as much as a taxi (especially if you have 4 to share).

 

Hank

[hubofhockey]

Thanks Hank. I'd say the cost of the automatic is over $100. I made the reservation to at least lock in the rate at 177 euros ($233). If it goes down, I'll cancel and rebook. I am going back to my old theory of additional marginal cost of really enjoying a port over the total cost of the cruise/vacation. Gas will be less than $50 and I'll have flexibility to see more of Provence. After reading your posts and Terry's, the car rental seems to be the best way to maximize the day and see more of Provence. As always, thank you for your advice and the DIY encouragement.

 

Len

[TLCOhio]

Thanks Hank. I'd say the cost of the automatic is over $100. I made the reservation to at least lock in the rate at 177 euros ($233). If it goes down, I'll cancel and rebook. I am going back to my old theory of additional marginal cost of really enjoying a port over the total cost of the cruise/vacation. Gas will be less than $50 and I'll have flexibility to see more of Provence. After reading your posts and Terry's, the car rental seems to be the best way to maximize the day and see more of Provence. As always, thank you for your advice and the DIY encouragement. Len

 

Sounds like, Len, you've got a "plan" and are moving ahead. A car does give you lots of flexibility. I like the "change" of doing a manual car while in Europe, but understand your situation.

 

I would also do a Google.com check/search with the port name and the term "car rentals". That might give you some added options on car companies in addition to the traditional "bigger names". Keep researching and planning!

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 27,225 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[hubofhockey]

Thanks again Terry. If we really can't come up with an itinerary with more than just Arles and the aqueduct, we may still wind up on the train. I'd like to put a couple of towns together.