What I don't like about the Marina and Riviera

[gillianrose]

The stern of a ship is considered to be prime real estate. On some ships, aft facing cabins are highly desirable and there are a lot of cabins back there for passengers to book and enjoy. On other ships the aft decks are open for everyone to enjoy.

 

Why did the designers of the Marina and Riviera decide to use this prime real estate for noisy air vents instead of for many cabin balconies that face the stern or as open space decks for everyone?

 

I think it is one of the worst things about the design of these two ships.

 

The other is the lack of even a partial promenade area under the lifeboats.

 

 

 

What are your pet peeves about these two ships, either from the design if you have not sailed them, or from your actual experience?

[hondorner]

The stern of a ship is considered to be prime real estate. On some ships, aft facing cabins are highly desirable and there are a lot of cabins back there for passengers to book and enjoy. On other ships the aft decks are open for everyone to enjoy.

 

Why did the designers of the Marina and Riviera decide to use this prime real estate for noisy air vents instead of for many cabin balconies that face the stern or as open space decks for everyone?

 

I think it is one of the worst things about the design of these two ships.

 

The other is the lack of even a partial promenade area under the lifeboats.

 

 

 

What are your pet peeves about these two ships, either from the design if you have not sailed them, or from your actual experience?

(1) The air vents are not noisy.

(2) Decks 8, 9 and 10 do not have air vents -- the owner's suite goes all the way across the rear of the ship, including balconies and picture windows.

(3) On Deck 7, the site of the lowest cost balconies on the ship, the aft-most cabins are penthouses, and the cabins do have rear facing balconies.

(4) On Deck 11, the site of most of the penthouse suites, the aft-most cabins are Oceania suites, and they do have rear facing balconies.

 

Deck 12 is the Terrace Cafe. Only Deck 7 and Deck 11 have the A/C vents, and they take up just a fraction of the space. It seems very efficient to me.

 

Notice that they are, indeed, maximizing the value of the stern balconies, reserving them for some of the most expensive real estate on the ship. Not bad design philosophy in my book.

 

The R ships use this "prime" area to include only 4 A2 and 2 B2 cabins, besides the 6 owners suites. That's a total of 12 cabins out of 342 that get to enjoy this space. Sounds like a pet peeve to some.

 

As far as the lifeboats, in order to have a partial promenade on the R ships, the lifeboats are raised high enough to block the Category E cabins, lowering their value, and few people use Deck 5. On Marina, the lifeboats settle down into deck 6, and are barely noticeable from the Grand Bar or the casino, which they adjoin. Instead, the sun deck above the pool is significantly wider allowing for easier walking access, and their is a dedicated fitness deck for joggers. Sounds like a good trade-off to me.

 

My pet peeve is people who search out the negative and ignore the positive. To me, they are setting themselves up for disappointment. But, your mileage may vary...

[YoHoHo]

Can't resist repeating a response to a similar question on another board:

What I don't like is that they made me get off the ship at the end of the cruise. Now THAT is a major disappointment.

 

I agree Don, that far as lifeboats I thought it was great design placing them up so that the Ocean View cabins have those beautiful floor to ceiling windows instead of the usual small 'picture window' or porthole that may or may not have the view blocked ...err, ah, obstructed..

 

However I too miss the walking deck area below the fireboats on the R ships. One thing I liked is that it was never crowded (not that there are 'crowds' much on O anyway). My complaint there is that there are very few deck chairs and often already taken with passengers enjoying the view and the quiet (and some snoozing)

 

That said I was very much impressed on Marina with all the semi-private areas on deck to read a book, lounge, enjoy a beverage or just simply enjoy being out on deck cruising along. These areas usually had a fair bit of free space away from the crowds.

 

My real disappointments on Marina? I'll have to think a bit on that first.

[aohkay]

 

 

 

What are your pet peeves about these two ships, either from the design if you have not sailed them, or from your actual experience?

 

What a downer.

[Leonid]

What a downer.

 

Why is this post a"downer"? Seems that is a legitimate question to ask. Downer? Sounds like a 60s/70s post.

[TKS]

I agree with Mark (YoHoHo). My biggest disappointment was, indeed, that the cruise ended and we had to leave our little Marina nest.

 

No cruise ship is perfect, and neither is Marina. That being said, the imperfections are not disappointing. It's like saying someone isn't beautiful just because their nose is a bit crooked or one eyebrow a bit higher than the other. Those small imperfections merely give a face (or Marina) its own character and make it interesting.

 

If we're talking about the glass being half full or half empty here, Marina's glass is well filled, and FDR, Bob Binder, and the entire O staff and Marina crew are working hard to finish filling that glass brimming full for their passengers. The level of success they have achieved is easily demonstrated by how many Mariana passengers have already booked Riviera.

[gillianrose]

Why is this post a"downer"? Seems that is a legitimate question to ask. Downer? Sounds like a 60s/70s post.

 

Thank you. There is still time to change or fix or refine some things for Riviera and future ships and I hope that if people describe what they did not like on the Marina (or don't think they would like) that these things could be remedied on the Riviera or future ships.

[scotty63]

Is there really no promenade deck on Marina? I am sailing on 29 July and I've loved walking and resting, mainly resting, on the promenade deck of every ship I have been on in the past. I'd be pleased if someone would clarify. Thanks

[scotty63]

Is it true that there is no promenade deck on Marina. I've never been on a ship without one.

[hondorner]

Is there really no promenade deck on Marina? I am sailing on 29 July and I've loved walking and resting, mainly resting, on the promenade deck of every ship I have been on in the past. I'd be pleased if someone would clarify. Thanks

There is no promenade deck in the sense of being able to walk all the way around the ship, from bow to stern and around both sides, continuously. There also is not a promenade deck on any of the R ships, on any of the Regent ships, and probably not on many small or midsize ships. In fact, the only ship that I have been on which has a promenade deck is the NCL Jewel, and the forward part of that deck is pretty much in a tunnel.

 

What has been loosely described as a promenade deck on the R ships is are separate decks, about half the length of the ship, on either side of Deck 5, under the lifeboats.

 

Jim (of JimandStan) is an expert when it comes to older ships and can probably offer a list of those ships with and without a promenade deck off the top of his head.

[LHT28]

The shower is still an issue in the lower cabin Cat the PH showers are a nice size but I am not willing to pay the extra $$ just for a bigger shower ;)

 

Lyn

[brian_uk]

Dontcha just luv it when someone has the temerity to criticise anything about O.

 

More power to their elbow I say.

 

Brian

[Wendy The Wanderer]

... There also is not a promenade deck on any of the R ships, on any of the Regent ships, and probably not on many small or midsize ships.

 

Well Don, having been on Voyager, in what way does the top deck not qualify as a "promenade" deck? More to the point, what does Marina have in its place? I too love walking around the top deck from end to end. (I'm guessing you're thinking of the sports area not really qualifying, but you can go all the around.)

 

P.S. I don't see anything wrong with this thread. No ship is perfect, why should these things not be mentioned?

[hondorner]

Well Don, having been on Voyager, in what way does the top deck not qualify as a "promenade" deck? More to the point, what does Marina have in its place? I too love walking around the top deck from end to end. (I'm guessing you're thinking of the sports area not really qualifying, but you can go all the around.)

Jim is the better expert, but the "top deck" on Voyager is the same as that on Marina and the "R" ships -- you can walk all the way around the pool, but you can't walk all the way around the ship, like a traditional promenade deck. this is Voyager:

 

 

As you can see, it is called a sun deck/jogging deck.

 

Here is Marina's fitness track, which is separate from the sun deck and allows real jogging, as opposed to Voyager which shares the "jogging" deck with deck lounge chairs:

 

 

And here is Marina's sundeck, above the pool, which has plenty of space past the deck lounge chairs for more casual exercise walking:

 

 

 

The traditional promenade deck is usually located lower on the ship. It actually became popular back in the day when ocean liner cabins opened on to the promenade deck. Here is the promenade deck on NCL Jewel -- it's on deck 7 of 15, and is the narrow space that goes all the way around the ship from bow to stern:

 

 

Marina, the R ships, the Regent ships, and most other small/midsize ships are too small to devote this space to a promenade deck.

 

Most often cited for their nice promenade decks are many of the Holland America ships. Here is the lower promenade deck (deck 6 of 13) on the Staatendam:

 

[CintiPam]

Thanks for the education, Don. You have taught me the true meaning of the term "promenade deck" in a beautifully-illustrated fashion.

 

For someone who grew up on the Jersey shore, I certainly do not know much about ships!

[gillianrose]

ALL Holland America ships, including the smallest, the Prinsendam, which was built for Royal Viking Line, have full promenade decks which encircle the ship.

 

The Prinsendam is just 37,848 grt, yet it still has a full promenade deck.

[YoHoHo]

Never been on Holland America but it seems to me that this deck serves sort of double duty in that is a public deck but is the verandah for cabins along it. I recall seeing on a HA board posters commenting on how to prevent other pax from using their deck loungers in front of their cabin. I think I would not like strolling along there if that was the case. Sorry I am getting further off off topic - this thread is on Marina dislikes.

[Bruin Steve]

Good stuff, Don...

 

Of course, the real problem with the HAL Promenade, if you are running a modern cruise line, is that, in order to allow for that Promenade, you've converted 100+ would-be Veranda cabins into ordinary "Window" cabins...

 

Not only does it decrease your revenue by a considerable amount, it also makes those window cabins less desirable to many...instead of looking out to the water with no one looking in, they look out onto foot traffic...and everyone walking by can look in!!

 

What cruise lines have mostly figured out nowadays is that most people want balcony cabins...and you try to put as many of these on each ship as is practical

 

So, that typically rules out putting such a Promenade onto a residential deck...

 

On "public" decks, you want to maximize your interior uses--bars, lounges, amenities...and for circulation purposes, you want a reasonable walkway INSIDE the ship...You also prefer to have the lounges and public spaces, where a view is workabe, to have windows with a view out to the water...directly...

 

Take a look at the old Queen Mary (sort of my standard for "old time" ships):

 

http://www.paper-dragon.com/1939/images/04_promdeck.jpg

 

Even their Promenade didn't go all the way around...there was, rather, a "Cabin Class" Promenade and a "Tourist Class" Promenade, separated by doors...

And, of course, in those days, there wasn't much in the way of interior walkways...

 

Same with the Titanic:

 

http://www.copperas.com/titanic/Boatdeck.gif

[hondorner]

Steve -- good reasoning as to why many modern ships do not have promenade decks.

 

Gillianrose -- I did say "most", not all, small and midsize ships. HAL is venerated by many passengers for their promenade decks, so they will go to any lengths to retain them. That's part of what makes "choice" regarding cruise lines. People often vote with their feet. Oceania is doing swell without promenade decks...

[gillianrose]

Gillianrose -- I did say "most", not all, small and midsize ships.

 

I know that you said "most", but the fact of the matter is that it is not "most" HAL ships but ALL HAL ships which have a full promenade deck, not only the ships they had built specifically for the HAL fleet, but also the ship which was originally the Royal Viking Sun, then the Seabourn Sun, and which is now the Prinsendam.

 

ALL HAL ships have full promenade decks. The little ones, the mid-sized ones and the big ones.

[CintiPam]

Hi, BruinSteve, I personally could have done without the Titanic reference!:eek:;)

[cinycat]

Here's one--I understand that Marina has music piped into the library. IMHO that's a no-no. Libraries need to be quiet. I have truly enjoyed the library on Regatta (its one of my favourite places). I don't think I'm going to enjoy it half as much on the Marina when I do the TA in November. Can someone turnoff the noise?

[hondorner]

Here's one--I understand that Marina has music piped into the library. IMHO that's a no-no. Libraries need to be quiet. I have truly enjoyed the library on Regatta (its one of my favourite places). I don't think I'm going to enjoy it half as much on the Marina when I do the TA in November. Can someone turnoff the noise?

I never heard it -- someone else needs to confirm.

[TKS]

Yes, there was piped in music in the library, at least on the MV.

[Senior Citizen]

I think what cinycat is going to like even less than the piped in music is the sound of conversations as people pass by to go to Baristas or to leave the computer "room." The library is not a dedicated space as on the three R ships. It is a series of alcoves off of a busy "hallway" that leads to/from Baristas, the computer room, and the board room. Of course, the sounds didn't bother everyone as I noticed a person or two asleep in the chairs whenever we went by.