recipe for disaster

[cruise maniac 15]

FBN: Cruise lines are always building new ships, and Royal Caribbean just announced a new class of ships will come out starting in 2014. What will those ships be like?

LISA Bauer: Our next wave is currently called “Project Sunshine,” and we have one ship on order for 2014 delivery with the option for another. They are 158,000-tons, about the same size as the Freedom-class, but with 4,100 berths, more passengers per ship. It’s all about efficiency these days, especially with the price of fuel going up.

 

same size as freedom put more passengers? sounds like the carnival dream, you can count me out not going on there.

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/03/18/royal-caribbean-looks-travelers-royal-treatment/#ixzz1Gz6Gl700

[Cruising89143]

FBN: Cruise lines are always building new ships, and Royal Caribbean just announced a new class of ships will come out starting in 2014. What will those ships be like?

LISA Bauer: Our next wave is currently called “Project Sunshine,” and we have one ship on order for 2014 delivery with the option for another. They are 158,000-tons, about the same size as the Freedom-class, but with 4,100 berths, more passengers per ship. It’s all about efficiency these days, especially with the price of fuel going up.

 

same size as freedom put more passengers? sounds like the carnival dream, you can count me out not going on there.

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/03/18/royal-caribbean-looks-travelers-royal-treatment/#ixzz1Gz6Gl700

 

This has been discussed in previous discussions. The ship is slightly larger than the Freedom class. Freedom class is 154,000 tons and Sunshine will be 158,000 tons. A lot of the passsenger space depends on the design of the ship. RCI is a master at designing ships. They do not compare to Carnival in any when it comes to this area. Carnival only knows the cheapest way to build a ship.

 

No one has seen any design plans as of yet concerning length, width or deck plans. I myself will wait until I see more on the project before jumping to conclusions. We heard the same complaints about the Genesis class when it was announced. As most of us know that have cruised that class ship, all is good when it comes to Oasis and Allure. ;)

[cruise maniac 15]

great point, i will wait until the deck plans come out.

[Lizcourt]

This has been discussed in previous discussions. The ship is slightly larger than the Freedom class. Freedom class is 154,000 tons and Sunshine will be 158,000 tons. A lot of the passsenger space depends on the design of the ship. RCI is a master at designing ships. They do not compare to Carnival in any when it comes to this area. Carnival only knows the cheapest way to build a ship.

 

No one has seen any design plans as of yet concerning length, width or deck plans. I myself will wait until I see more on the project before jumping to conclusions. We heard the same complaints about the Genesis class when it was announced. As most of us know that have cruised that class ship, all is good when it comes to Oasis and Allure. ;)

 

I love RCCL, but IMHO I think your comments about Carnival are really not fair, and worse, really not accurate. For years, RCCL lagged behind the industry in general and Carnival in particular, when it came to cabin size. You can still see that today by comparing almost any Carnival ship with the cabins on Monarch or Majesty. And, in fact, with Oasis and Allure, for all their wonder (and having just sailed Oasis on 2/26, I strongly agree that they deserve the term "wonder") RCCL has taken a step back toward their not too auspicious history when it comes to the size of their standard cabins. I agree that it doesn't make sense to jump to conclusions about what the new Project Sunshine will bring with it -- I just think that you also can't blithely assume that RCCL are such "masters" of design that putting hundreds of extra passengers in the ship won't result in a return to the bad old days of RCCL cabin size.

[Cruising89143]

I love RCCL, but IMHO I think your comments about Carnival are really not fair, and worse, really not accurate. For years, RCCL lagged behind the industry in general and Carnival in particular, when it came to cabin size. You can still see that today by comparing almost any Carnival ship with the cabins on Monarch or Majesty. And, in fact, with Oasis and Allure, for all their wonder (and having just sailed Oasis on 2/26, I strongly agree that they deserve the term "wonder") RCCL has taken a step back toward their not too auspicious history when it comes to the size of their standard cabins. I agree that it doesn't make sense to jump to conclusions about what the new Project Sunshine will bring with it -- I just think that you also can't blithely assume that RCCL are such "masters" of design that putting hundreds of extra passengers in the ship won't result in a return to the bad old days of RCCL cabin size.

 

Those are my opinions and you do not have to agree with them but anyone that has cruised both lines enough know that Carnival continues to turn out the same ship over and over but making them a little larger while adding more guests to an already over crowded design. The Dream is based off the Carnival Destiny which entered service in 1996. Also there is not that big of a difference in standard cabin sizes and RCI has MUCH larger/deeper balconies on their newer ships such as the Freedom and Oasis class. Also, Carnival definition of a suite is laughable.

 

Also, like I stated in my first post, we all must wait for the RCI to release more information on the new ships before making the statement like the OP did. With Carnival, the proof is out there on their two new ships coming into service. Carnival is adding more cabins to the Carnival Magic. One of the biggest complaints about the Dream is how crowded it feels and the long lines. Now there will be even more issues.

[STEVE-O]

....then, when supply WAY outpaces demand, the prices will have to come down...not only for the new ships but the "old" ones, too!......

 

The novelty of Oasis and Allure will surely fade in the next couple of years....THEN watch the prices drop!!.......

 

Bring on the big ones, I say!

[Cruising89143]

....then, when supply WAY outpaces demand, the prices will have to come down...not only for the new ships but the "old" ones, too!......

 

The novelty of Oasis and Allure will surely fade in the next couple of years....THEN watch the prices drop!!.......

 

Bring on the big ones, I say!

 

I wouldn't sit around waiting. More and more cruise lines are moving ships away from the U.S to emerging markets such as Europe. Princess just announced their 2012-13 itineraries with the largest deployment ever to Europe. Costa announced today that they are looking at more new ships to be built to deploy in the growing European market. As more ships move away from the U.S, the prices will continue to stay higher due to less competition in the market. I myself keep booking those big ships to help keep the price up.;)

[Lizcourt]

Those are my opinions and you do not have to agree with them but anyone that has cruised both lines enough know that Carnival continues to turn out the same ship over and over but making them a little larger while adding more guests to an already over crowded design. The Dream is based off the Carnival Destiny which entered service in 1996. Also there is not that big of a difference in standard cabin sizes and RCI has MUCH larger/deeper balconies on their newer ships such as the Freedom and Oasis class. Also, Carnival definition of a suite is laughable.

 

Also, like I stated in my first post, we all must wait for the RCI to release more information on the new ships before making the statement like the OP did. With Carnival, the proof is out there on their two new ships coming into service. Carnival is adding more cabins to the Carnival Magic. One of the biggest complaints about the Dream is how crowded it feels and the long lines. Now there will be even more issues.

 

Yup, that's why Baskin Robins makes so many flavors --everyone is entitled to their own opinion (but not, of course their own facts). That's also why I prefaced my last post with "IMHO". And heres my "IMHO" on some of the points you make. I can't speak for the Dream and Magic, because I haven't been on them (have you?), but having sailed on the Spirit, Pride, Destiny and Triumph, I can say as a matter of fact that the Spirit class, which went into service after the Destiny class, are very different ships, and that it is therefore not correct to say that Carnival keeps turning out the same ships over and over. In addition, while Carnival does not generally have a class of suites that rivals -- or, indeed is even designed to rival -- the Royal Lofts, the Crown Lofts, or Royal Suites on RCCL ships, their suites on the ships on which I have sailed compare VERY favorably with the junior and grand suites -- which are the primary suite categories -- on RCCL ships. I've sailed in RCCL suites, including the Royal Loft on Oasis, and in Carnival suites, and -- again IMHO -- the Carnival suites simply can't legitimately be referred to as "laughable."

 

Do I like RCCL better? Yes, I do, for many reasons. I just don't understand the rabid Carnival bashing that seems to be such a hallmark of this board (speaking now generally not specifically about your post). They provide a very good product, for a very good price, and there really are more similarities than dissimilarities between the two lines.

[sidari]

One of the Big problems right now for UK cruisers heading for Carbbean cruises is the ridiculous increases in Air fare tax! Some will be charging an Extra £70 pp for USA flights plus a £20+ Fuel surcharge ... flights to Europe short haul will be £20 pp plus the £20 Fuel surcharge while Medium Haul will be around £35pp plus Fuel surcharge, so bookings on the Caribbean itineries may be hit hard and the cruise lines may well be looking to recoup possible lost revenue by putting more ships in Europe!

 

Already Thomson cruises and Fred Olsen have said they are removing ships from the Caribbean itineries due to flight taxes etc.

[Cruising89143]

Yup, that's why Baskin Robins makes so many flavors --everyone is entitled to their own opinion (but not, of course their own facts). That's also why I prefaced my last post with "IMHO". And heres my "IMHO" on some of the points you make. I can't speak for the Dream and Magic, because I haven't been on them (have you?), but having sailed on the Spirit, Pride, Destiny and Triumph, I can say as a matter of fact that the Spirit class, which went into service after the Destiny class, are very different ships, and that it is therefore not correct to say that Carnival keeps turning out the same ships over and over. In addition, while Carnival does not generally have a class of suites that rivals -- or, indeed is even designed to rival -- the Royal Lofts, the Crown Lofts, or Royal Suites on RCCL ships, their suites on the ships on which I have sailed compare VERY favorably with the junior and grand suites -- which are the primary suite categories -- on RCCL ships. I've sailed in RCCL suites, including the Royal Loft on Oasis, and in Carnival suites, and -- again IMHO -- the Carnival suites simply can't legitimately be referred to as "laughable."

 

Do I like RCCL better? Yes, I do, for many reasons. I just don't understand the rabid Carnival bashing that seems to be such a hallmark of this board (speaking now generally not specifically about your post). They provide a very good product, for a very good price, and there really are more similarities than dissimilarities between the two lines.

 

 

Well I will leave you to your own opinions and also may I suggest that you learn the definition of bashing. I see very little of it on this board. Most of what I read are other posters opinions based on their experience.

[Cruising89143]

One of the Big problems right now for UK cruisers heading for Carbbean cruises is the ridiculous increases in Air fare tax! Some will be charging an Extra £70 pp for USA flights plus a £20+ Fuel surcharge ... flights to Europe short haul will be £20 pp plus the £20 Fuel surcharge while Medium Haul will be around £35pp plus Fuel surcharge, so bookings on the Caribbean itineries may be hit hard and the cruise lines may well be looking to recoup possible lost revenue by putting more ships in Europe!

 

Already Thomson cruises and Fred Olsen have said they are removing ships from the Caribbean itineries due to flight taxes etc.

 

Yes and here a few more reasons.

 

http://www.cruise-community.com/News-Headlines/Cruise-leaders-warn-N.-American-ECA-a-huge-deal.html

 

http://www.cruise-community.com/News-Headlines/ECA-alarm-spreads-to-the-Caribbean.html

[negc]

FBN: Cruise lines are always building new ships, and Royal Caribbean just announced a new class of ships will come out starting in 2014. What will those ships be like?

LISA Bauer: Our next wave is currently called “Project Sunshine,” and we have one ship on order for 2014 delivery with the option for another. They are 158,000-tons, about the same size as the Freedom-class, but with 4,100 berths, more passengers per ship. It’s all about efficiency these days, especially with the price of fuel going up.

 

same size as freedom put more passengers? sounds like the carnival dream, you can count me out not going on there.

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/03/18/royal-caribbean-looks-travelers-royal-treatment/#ixzz1Gz6Gl700

You aren't saying much that wasn't said when RCI announced Sovereign of the Seas, or Voyager, Freedom, or Oasis. I think that most would agree that the fears were proven to be wrong and, in the case of Oasis and Allure, seriously overblown. Perhaps you might wait to see what they have come up with before describing this as a "recipe for disaster". Not sure that quoting from Fox Business News which apparently can't differentiate between Freedom and Liberty of the Seas does much to bolster your position.;)

[Merion_Mom]

Do I like RCCL better? Yes, I do, for many reasons. I just don't understand the rabid Carnival bashing that seems to be such a hallmark of this board (speaking now generally not specifically about your post). They provide a very good product, for a very good price, and there really are more similarities than dissimilarities between the two lines.

 

cruisingator2 doesn't bash Carnival. He has been on MANY Carnival cruises, but since switching to RC, greatly prefers their ships.

 

Believing that the passenger space on RC is higher than on Carnival is a matter of fact, not "bashing".

 

Princess has run into the same problem with Crown Princess, etc. They added an entire deck of cabins to a previous design without increasing the public spaces, such as seating in the theatre. That makes for a REAL mess when show time rolls around.

[Schplinky]

I love RCCL, but IMHO I think your comments about Carnival are really not fair, and worse, really not accurate. For years, RCCL lagged behind the industry in general and Carnival in particular, when it came to cabin size. You can still see that today by comparing almost any Carnival ship with the cabins on Monarch or Majesty. And, in fact, with Oasis and Allure, for all their wonder (and having just sailed Oasis on 2/26, I strongly agree that they deserve the term "wonder") RCCL has taken a step back toward their not too auspicious history when it comes to the size of their standard cabins. I agree that it doesn't make sense to jump to conclusions about what the new Project Sunshine will bring with it -- I just think that you also can't blithely assume that RCCL are such "masters" of design that putting hundreds of extra passengers in the ship won't result in a return to the bad old days of RCCL cabin size.

 

Have you thought that maybe the reason CCL cabins need to be big is to get away from the rest of the ship? We sailed the Dream and I have never stood in line more! They had great lunch features in the buffet like a Mongolian Grill and a pasta bar, both of which often had a 45 minute wait. Despite that, they kept them open for three hours only. The lines were so crazy they started having bbq on the lanai (promenade deck) to disperse the crowds. I'd hate to have had a balcony above that.

 

A year or so in, Oasis is still commanding high prices and Dream is charging pretty average prices so I guess it's easy to see which "innovative" ship has fans.

[CruiserChloe]

same size as freedom put more passengers? sounds like the carnival dream, you can count me out not going on there.

 

Considering there are no plans released yet and not even a sketch of the ship, isn't it a little early to say that?

[Lizcourt]

cruisingator2 doesn't bash Carnival. He has been on MANY Carnival cruises, but since switching to RC, greatly prefers their ships.

 

Believing that the passenger space on RC is higher than on Carnival is a matter of fact, not "bashing".

 

Princess has run into the same problem with Crown Princess, etc. They added an entire deck of cabins to a previous design without increasing the public spaces, such as seating in the theatre. That makes for a REAL mess when show time rolls around.

 

Seriously, I don't want to fight, have gone out of my way to say that my posts are my opinion, and will not comment further after this. However, I DO understand the meaning of the term "bashing" and I WOULD say that it applies to a comment that an entire fleet's suites are "laughable."

[Ocean Boy]

I wouldn't sit around waiting. More and more cruise lines are moving ships away from the U.S to emerging markets such as Europe. Princess just announced their 2012-13 itineraries with the largest deployment ever to Europe. Costa announced today that they are looking at more new ships to be built to deploy in the growing European market. As more ships move away from the U.S, the prices will continue to stay higher due to less competition in the market. I myself keep booking those big ships to help keep the price up.;)

 

Sometimes you do like to do a little bit of pot stirring.;):D:D

[Ocean Boy]

Have you thought that maybe the reason CCL cabins need to be big is to get away from the rest of the ship? We sailed the Dream and I have never stood in line more! They had great lunch features in the buffet like a Mongolian Grill and a pasta bar, both of which often had a 45 minute wait. Despite that, they kept them open for three hours only. The lines were so crazy they started having bbq on the lanai (promenade deck) to disperse the crowds. I'd hate to have had a balcony above that.

 

A year or so in, Oasis is still commanding high prices and Dream is charging pretty average prices so I guess it's easy to see which "innovative" ship has fans.

 

I knew when I was on Oasis looking out over at Dream that I was on the right ship.

[Aquahound]

same size as freedom put more passengers? sounds like the carnival dream, you can count me out not going on there.

 

One thing I've learned about RCI ships is they know how to disperse crowds. Right now, I am confident RCI will not build an overcrowded ship. This is a long way off and we'll have to wait, see, and read the reports.

[Silvery Seas Cruiser]

One thing I've learned about RCI ships is they know how to disperse crowds. Right now, I am confident RCI will not build an overcrowded ship. This is a long way off and we'll have to wait, see, and read the reports.

 

Asis so often the case, I once again agree with AquaHound. I am amazed at the way RCI has managed crowds on Oasis and Allure by making people book shows in advance and arranging the scheduling of shows and activities so that 6000 people aren't rushing to get into Chicago or the Aqua Show at the same time.

 

Before we booked Oasis I did worry about crowds and lines. But I was so impressed with how things went and two later cruises on Allure just reinforced my favorable opinion. The only real crowding is for the greatly popular Prominade parades.