Radisson Going "MASS MARKET"!

[aaannnthony]

Received this e-mail today.

 

"Vantage Deluxe World Travel has entered into a new partnership with Radisson Seven Seas Cruises_ the cruiseline awarded "Best Cruise Value" by the World Ocean & Cruise Liner Society in the ultra-luxury category for 11 years in a row."

 

The promo cites four sailings, two on Voyager and one each on Mariner and Diamond.

[cotto22]

Can you give more particulars on this please? What dates are they promoting? This is really a revolting development. Thanks.

[HaloV]

Not quite sure what is going on. Is it a really bad thing? Can you explain please? Thanks, H

[Leejnd4]

Yes, I'm also very curious how this turns RSSC into a "mass-market" line. Does the fact that they will be selling some cruises through this service mean that the product will change? Will the criteria that differentiates a "luxury" line from a "mass-market" line no longer exist on Radisson cruises? Will their service, food, tip- and alcohol-inclusive policies, passenger-space ration, cabin size change? What exactly WILL change?

 

LeeAnne

[Call me Ishmael]

A quick look at Vantage Travel website under Ocean Tours shows they have packaged some of the repositioning trips: The Diamond's Transatlantic crossing , the Voyager's trip from the Mediterranean to Northern France and the following segment from Northern France to Stockholm. Also the New York to Iceland trip of the Navigator.

 

I'm only familiar with the details of the France to Stockholm trip (on which I'm already booked). The pricing offered by Vantage is roughly comparable to the discounted brochure price with some variation on the air portion. RSSC was offering free air; Vantage's free air is from the east coast with $200 or more additional from the west coast.

 

The big difference is that Vantage includes hotel stays at the start and end of the cruises. On the France to Stockholm there's one night in Paris and two nights in Stockholm at decent hotels in ok locations.

 

On the other hand, there's no mention that I saw that RSSC's past passenger discount would apply to a booking. So that would offset the hotel cost to some extent. I believe you can still get these cruises through RSSC or a travel agent without buying Vantage's package.

 

I wonder if they can actually provide cabins at the lowest categories. Even at that, passengers would have to pony up thousands of dollars ($11,000 on the France to Stockholm trip), so I wouldn't call it going mass market.

 

I've seen a lot of advertising by RSSC for this trips recently, so I guess they have some quantity of unsold cabins. On the Jan. 22 Paul Gauguin 15 day cruise to the Marquesas, there were quite a few passengers with Vantage or Grand Circle. The ones I met all seemed nice enough.

 

I'm not sure I see much impact on RSSC or past passengers. Travel agents may not like it however.

[Pam]

Well, if they think that selling spaces on four sailings constitutes a partnership, I have this nice bridge I'd like to talk to them about.

[Leejnd4]

Well, if Vantage Travel is connected to Grand Circle Travel (a similar packager), then the problem doesn't exist with RSSC, it exists with the Travel Agency selling their cruises. I've read MANY horrific stories of Grand Circle doing things like selling cruise packages for a certain price, and then when it's too late to cancel without penalty, suddenly upping the final price by literally many hundreds of dollars. There have been numerous official complaints registered against that company -- I came across a website once that detailed many of them over the last few years, and most of them had to do with that type of thing. I was appalled at the scams they pulled -- it seemed like downright fraudulent business practices to me. Some customers ended up losing hundreds of dollars in cancellation fees because they simply couldn't afford to shell out the huge price increases. That's particularly troubling when you think about the fact that many of these people are seniors on a fixed income who might have been saving for years to take their dream vacation. After reading those horror stories, there is no way I would ever trust my money with that company!

 

I have not heard of any similar problems with Vantage, but perhaps that's what the OP is referring to.

 

However, if that's the case, I would strongly dispute that this in any way makes RSSC a "mass market" line, and frankly I find it disturbing that the subject of this thread says as much. The fact is, the travel companies or agencies that sell a cruise have nothing whatsoever to do with determining what category a cruise line falls into, i.e. luxury, premium, mass market, etc. That is determined by specific criteria that are on the ships themselves. In fact, CC has a great article that defines these criteria, called "Top Ten Reasons to Upgrade to Luxury". Here's the link, if anyone is interested:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/cruisestyles/articles.cfm?ID=124

 

If and when RSSC drops any of their luxury-line criteria, then it might be reasonable to suggest they are "going mass-market". But if that's not occurring, then it is utterly UNreasonable, inaccurate, and unfair to potential RSSC cruisers who might be led to believe, incorrectly, that RSSC is not a luxury line.

 

LeeAnne

[petlover]

After reading the article, I don't sense RSSC's high quality will be affected....???

I think the Title of this posting "Radisson Going Mass Market" is very misleading....it just isn't so.

[gopackgo]

LeeAnne,

 

I totally agree with everything you said so eloquently! I am also glad I have read about some of the bad business practices by Grand Circle. I just received one of their brochures on the mail last week advertising Radisson cruises. I am going to return it to them with a note telling them to not send it to me anymore. I also receive the Vantage brochures, which advertise other cruise lines as well, thanks to my brother-in-law, who has gone on sailings through them. I have not heard or read anything about Vantage. I have no intention of using them at this time, since we have such a great TA.

 

Ginny

[Dolebludger]

Well, one difference between RSSC's deal with Vantage and the deal with Grand Circle Travel is that there was little choice as to the GCT deal. As we know, GCT became part owner of the PG, and continued leasing it to RSSC with the condition that GCT could sell "packages" that included a PG sailing. The only way out of this for RSSC would have been to use its "right of first refusal" and BUY the PG (which BTW, I wish RSSC had done). The deal between Vantage and RSSC appears at this time to be a totally voluntary thing.

 

That being said, It would appear that the inclusion of a crossing with a "land package" is a very natural business relationship. We've never taken a crossing. The main reason is that, after booking the crossing, we have the job of then making land arraingments in Europe. Somewhere along the way, it all becomes too much trouble and we just give up on it all. So I can well see how a "package" with crossing and European land tour would be attractive travel product.

 

Thanks,

Richard:) :) :)

[mike35]

Well said, JHP. The whole thing appears to be a tempest in a teapot. Radisson is light years away from resembling a mass market cruise line, and I'm confident that, despite assorted marketing agreements (hey - they're after the bottom line like every well-run business in the world), they will remain a superior, personalized cruise line.

[English Voyager]

Here in the UK there are agents who have combined Silversea cruises with land packages,so I suppose that makes Silversea a "mass market" cruise line!

[JDMOR]

Both Vantage and GCT are really just another travel agent operation, using marketing techniques slightly different from most agents or when dealing direct with RCCS. I just returned from the 2/24 sailing of the Paul Gauguin booked through Vantage. Although it was my first sailing on a so-called 5 Star line, I was delighted with the experience. It does not seem that Vantage has degraded the deluxe aspects of RSSC, at least in this case. BTW, the bulk of passenger on this sailing were either Vantage of GCT bookings. And, RCCS prohibited us from wearing Vantage/GCT name tags so as to not give any impression of favoritism over "regular" passengers.

 

The main difference I have noted between Vantage/GCT and conventional TA's when booking, is that they will charge a heafty cancellation charge ($125 -$175) even if you cancel well before the traditional 90 days before embarkation as is normal with booking through a TA.

 

I agree, this is mostly a "tempest in a teapot", and hope that RCCS continues to provide a "5 Star" experience.

[Dolebludger]

There is nothing wrong with "packagers" such as Vantage and GCT including a Radisson cruise in their offered packages. The cruise is still 100% Radisson, just as the hotels and tour operators the packagers use remain independent. The only REAL problem here stems from GCT's acts of advertising ridiculously low fares on one of their packages that included the PG, then not honoring that price by claiming it was a clerical error. But I think the general concept of combining a land package with a cruise -- especially with a crossing -- is basically sound. Were we to book a crossing, we would want a land componet in Europe that went well beyond a couple nights in a hotel in (i.e.) Paris. We'd also want some land tours lined up, and maybe even overnights in other cities as well. Of course, Radisson and any TA can get us pre or post -cruise hotel. But when it comes to setting up land tours, multi-city land stays, and the like, it's not that easy. If any packager wants to offer a pre or post European land tour in conjunction with a Radisson crossing, this is a travel product in which we'd definitely be interested, and one which we would feel would not degrade Radisson one bit.

 

 

Thanks,

Richard:) :) :)

[Leejnd4]

duplicate post

[Winner]

Richard--You might try talking to a travel agent for those elusive "land tours" you want. Any decent TA would be delighted to find you the right tour operator to fulfill your needs and/or wishes. There is a wide range of packages (personalized, not masses of tourists) and I'm sure you could find what you want with a LIVE (not internet) TA with whom you could discuss what you want. In my former life I knew many very knowledgeable Oklahoma TAs.

[Pam]

I had a massively negative experience with RCCL several years ago; I talked about it in one thread on CC, then I put it away and just never considered going back on one of their ships. I certainly didn't make it my life's work to run them down every single chance I got, and to personally insult people who do like the line. I also don't go into the RCCL thread here at CC and continuously run them down, over and over again..

 

 

As for my husband and I, we have settled into RSSC as the cruiseline that suits us best. No, we haven't cruised on Crystal, Silverseas or Seabourne; we've looked at their sites and we keep coming back to RSSC where we know we are completely comfortable. We have never said that RSSC ships are perfect (but they do come close), we just acknowledge that we like almost everything about them. We also acknowledge that there are people who aren't as comfortable with RSSC, and wish them well with their own preferences.

 

Isn't that why God made chocolate and vanilla (and chocolate sauce to pour over the vanilla)?

[JoAnne B]

LeeAnne

 

May you have a GREAT trip. I'll be anxious to read your trip report.

 

I'm counting the days until we leave for the Diamond crossing. I have every confidence that it will be a wonderful trip that beats Celebrity by a mile. Of course, in my opinion that wouldn't take much. But for those who prefer Celebrity, I say "go for it".

[FDV]

All I can say is that I have only cruised three cruise lines in my life RCI, Celebrity and Radisson, my first cruise on Royal Carribbean almost ruined me for life at the age of 28, Voyager of the seas at the time was the biggest ship in the world and it was not for me, having a hotel degree and working in very high end hotels for years this really was terrible, I was a cattle in the herd, we all know that Celebrity is the bumped up version of RCI since it is the same company, taking Radisson for our honeymoon in 2003 was the best choice i ever did, if you want to be nickeled and dimed go on these lines, I for one do not, and appreciate the fact that the only time I need my charge card is when I am buying drinks in the lounges. Radisson cancelled our first sampler cruise on the Mariner it was a dissapointment, but I got over it, If you dont like Radisson then go away and spend your money elsewhere, why continue to point out negatives and continue to prolong a negative experience. Just my opinion though.

[Winner]

On another board, Anthony praised Oceania as a fifth luxury line. I assume the other lines would include Radisson. So you still consider RSSC as luxury? You can't have it both ways--either Radisson is becoming Mass Market or it is luxury. Inconsistent.

 

(As a footnote, Frank del Rio answered Anthony that he considered Oceania in a niche of its own.)

[Leejnd4]

Just to keep things real here, note that the first post of this thread suggested that RSSC was "going mass market" not because of anything to do with the cruise experience, but supposedly due to the fact that GCT was selling RSSC cruises. So all this talk about whether the actual cruise experience on RSSC ships rates it as a "luxury" line seems moot to me. The fact is (and I mentioned this earlier in this thread), there are very specific criteria that define a "luxury" cruise, and RSSC clearly meets that criteria. How WELL they meet it is certainly up for debate, and it would seem that Anthony in particular felt they did not meet his personal standards. (Although I still find it quite curious that Celebrity did, especially given they do NOT meet the criteria of luxury cruise lines.) But he is certainly entitled to his preferences, and I hope he continues to enjoy many Celebrity cruises.

 

I'm not familiar with Oceana, so I don't know if they meet the luxury line criteria. But I've heard many great things about them.

 

For me, the reason I've chosen to upgrade to a luxury line has to do primarily with that criteria. There are aspects of the "mass market" cruise experience that I simply do not like, no matter how well they perform otherwise. I've enjoyed my Celebrity experiences, however, one can't deny the fact that they do not meet the luxury cruise criteria, and I look forward to leaving those annoyances behind. I do not expect my Radisson cruise to be perfect -- personally I've never experienced a perfect cruise, or even a perfect vacation! But I am definitely happy about the smaller ship size, better accommodations, open-seating dining, complimentary alcohol, no tipping, no nickel-&-diming, etc. etc. :)

 

LeeAnne

[Dolebludger]

As this thread appears to be one with some sort of "background" of anamousity among some posters of which I know nothing, I haven't said much. But now, please allow me to address the stated issue or question as to whether "the winds of change" are blowing on Radisson. IMO, there have been a good number of reports I think are reliable concerning a significant number of changes with Radisson. Too many to detail here. Suffice it to say that the changes have been in areas of personnel, discount policies, refund policies when Radisson cancels a cruise, inclusions, and Radisson's nebulous relationship with GCT/Vantage. And, in the 3 years we've cruised Radisson, there once were 6 ships. Soon, there will be only three. Among other things, this severly limits itinerary chioces. Certainly, Radisson is a company in the midst of change, of some sort. And the changes I've seen reported so far are certainly not for the better, IMO. Even as one of the older "Radisson Cheerleaders", I am forced to confront the fact that the Radisson on which I cruise in a few months may not be like the one I cruised last year. Too many indicators point to the fear that it may not be as good. I personally know a number of "Radisson Regulars" who, a couple of years ago, would be sitting on two or three bookings at a given time. Now, they are sitting on one -- or none. We have one Radisson cruise currently booked. And we booked that primarily because we had some expiring credits and discounts to use up. After that, some things just have to sort themselves out concerning Radisson before we book further. Should we have an insatiable urge to cruise before that time, we will most probably book Seabourn or Silversea. Concern about negative change in the Radisson product is only one reason. Other issues are Radisson's reduced number of ships/itineraries, making it more difficult (sometimes impossible) to get where we want to go on Radisson. Also, Radisson has increased its prices and eliminated some discounts while Seabourn and Silversea are offering more "specials", making the prices more competitive.

 

I state again that I have no desire to become involved in any pre-existing arguments among posters. At this point, I don't think anybody can predict Radisson's future. But as one of the "Radisson Cheerleaders" often mentioned, I wish only to say that I, too, am concerned.

 

Thanks,

Richard:confused:

[canadagal]

Dolebludger, I couldn't agree with you more. Count me among the people that are concerned and worried about the not so positive changes at Radisson. We too have a booking for this winter and I am constantly wondering whether or not to cancel or keep it. We also had some credit to use up and if we didn't have that credit then I don't think I would hesitate to cancel right now and just book with Seabourn or SS. Those companies I have no worries about and they really do excel in customer service starting right from the booking process. Unlike you though we don't have to make that decision until the beginning of August and hopefully the situation at Rad will be more clear and especially with the P.G. It's one heck of a long way to go to take a gamble on. I understand and agree fully with your concerns as they are much like my own. I too will be eagerly awaiting reviews from some of the old time CC posters that are familiar with how the P.G. was and to their comparisons as to how she is now.

Pat

[med4bike]

We just returned from the last "leg" of the world cruise ( Civitivecchia to Ft. Lauderdale) and I must "weigh in" on this thread.

 

Without taking sides, I thought that I would give you some of my impressions of this cruise and the Voyager in particular. We have 5 cruises on RSSC, on the Navigator, Mariner and now the Voyager. The Voyager is one beautiful ship. It has taken the best of the other two. The cabins are wonderfully large, well equipped and with a large bathroom with a separate shower and tub.

 

We have always praised Radisson for its service, food and itinerary. This cruise had many nice ports and many sea days ( which we really enjoy)

 

This "last leg" of the world cruise had complimentary drinks in all venues and a complimentary shore excursion in Monte Carlo. We also had complimentary bar set ups in suite. BTW, we ordered white wine each afternoon and room service provided us with a full bottle of Pinot Grigio (Santa Margharita).

 

That said, I must say that Radisson failed miserably in the service and food area. It seems that there was a change in some personnel before we embarked in Civitivecchia and the "new" personnel did not live up to previous Radisson standards. The waiters that we had on occasion did not totally understand English and were not very professional. We questioned this aspect of service with Radisson officers on board and they mentioned that the new personnel lacked the appropriate "training" and were learning on the run. Again, a Rad officer explained to us that Rad pays their crew in dollars and with the dollars record "low" against the Euro, the European crew was going elsewhere.

 

The food was another matter. It was far from the superior cuisine which we experienced on our previous Radisson cruises. Without going into specifics (unless prodded) the cuisine lacked imagination, many dishes were undercooked and the variety of dishes was lacking. We ate in all venues and surprisingly ( for us) we enjoyed La Veranda's Italiano dinners the most. We ate at Compass Rose a few times but the combination of lackluster food and inexperienced wait staff made this experience far from pleasant. Signatures was fine and Latitudes was very pleasant.

 

The entertainment was another matter. It was wonderful! We have always criticized the lack of competent entertainment in all venues on Radisson but on this trip the entertainment was superb. The production shows were fab and the star performers had their own shows on alternate nights, which were outstanding. Lucie Arnez (that's Lucy and Desi's daughter) gave a very professional performance of song and dance. She also made herself available to any cruiser who wanted to chat or take a picture.

 

Club.com, the computer room with over 20 computers, was well staffed and very reasonable. Wayne, the instructor and staff person, was marvelous. His computer classes were informative and well run.

 

All in all we had a wonderful time and met some very interesting cruisers.

My criticism seems to mirror the comments of Dolebludger in that we feel that Radisson has slipped a bit and we question the direction that Radisson is going. ( From the proposed name change, to ship's personnel to quality of service and food)

 

The highlight of this cruise (as well as our last cruise to Alaska on the Mariner) was the cruise director, Jaime Logan. Jaime is a fun loving "energizer bunny" who never stops entertaining the guests. His quick wit and clever "activities" never ceased to amaze us. We loved his "game show" entertainment every afternoon on sea days, his interaction with guests on all levels, his wonderful sense of humor and his MC of the "white elephant" auction at the end of the cruise. His beautiful wife Dana was a delightful "assistant" to Jaime and she in her own right, carried the day.

 

We will most probably cruise Radisson in the future but we feel the superior "bang for the buck" that RSSC enjoyed over Crystal is waning.

[canadagal]

Thanks med4bike for giving us your review of your recent cruise. I've always remembered your reviews and posts to be balanced and fair no matter what cruiseline so I find it interesting that you have noticed a change. Can't wait to see some posts from other long time CC members.

Thanks! Pat