San Diego Today

[LordSpain]

Pictured below is San Diego today. Notice the Oosterdam along with what appears to be an X ship at utilizing the main pier. I am curious as to why it is that the X customers are forced to go through their embarkation using tent-like structures when there is a brand new cruise ship terminal next door.

 

If I remember right Carnival Corp ponied up something like 12 million to dollars to help build that new terminal. Shouldn’t the Oosterdam be using it now while the Celebrity ship uses the other terminal? Clearly that building could be put to good use today – yet it sits there apparently vacant. I’d heard many months ago that there were some temporary political issues that needed to be resolved, but I’m wondering why Carnival isn’t just a little upset it can’t use the new building they helped to build. Did this project get so mired up in politics that it’s now unusable – just curious is all -can anyone who is local fill me in?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bruce

[Krazy Kruizers]

I heard 2 different stories about the new terminal

one -- there was a contract issue

two -- it is only used when there arre more than 2 ships there

[sassyredhat]

It is the Celebrity Millinium with the Oosterdam.

The new terminal is only used when 3 ships are in.

Yes CCL did help pay for the terminal. Now there are no CCL ships here--or shortly there will be none.

Who knows what's going on there. We live here, and we don't know.

I did hear talk of going ahead with more Embarcadero upgrades, but the city is broke.

Pat

[DAllenTCY]

First of all, the new pier is not of sufficient size to accomodate either the Oosterdam or the Millennium. It has proven to be incapable of servicing the Rotterdam (1,400 capacity) and the one time that the Oosterdam did use it, the Captain reportedly said "Never again".

Secondly, the pier was built against the wishes of a particular group, who continue to oppose the use of the pier. They insisted, among other things, that the pier be open for public use on days when a ship is not berthed there. They insist that the Coast Guard maintain a 500 foot safety zone around the pier when it is in use. (That distance would reach across Harbor Drive and include the Broadway intersection.) They also argue that

the pier only be used when there are 3 ships in port, an instance that occurs 2-3 times a season, and they insisted that the total "footprint" of the pier be limited to it's current size.

I'll try to look up the name of the NIMBY's and post later.

David

P.S. They haven't used the tents for check-in for the past two years. Both ships have the check-in stations inside the B Street pier.

[DAllenTCY]

"San Diego Navy Broadway Complex Coalition" (SDNBCC) is the group involved. You can look up their many (a dozen or more) lawsuits online, going back many years.

David

[LordSpain]

First of all, the new pier is not of sufficient size to accomodate either the Oosterdam or the Millennium. It has proven to be incapable of servicing the Rotterdam (1,400 capacity) and the one time that the Oosterdam did use it, the Captain reportedly said "Never again".

Secondly, the pier was built against the wishes of a particular group, who continue to oppose the use of the pier. They insisted, among other things, that the pier be open for public use on days when a ship is not berthed there. They insist that the Coast Guard maintain a 500 foot safety zone around the pier when it is in use. (That distance would reach across Harbor Drive and include the Broadway intersection.) They also argue that

the pier only be used when there are 3 ships in port, an instance that occurs 2-3 times a season, and they insisted that the total "footprint" of the pier be limited to it's current size.

I'll try to look up the name of the NIMBY's and post later.

David

P.S. They haven't used the tents for check-in for the past two years. Both ships have the check-in stations inside the B Street pier.

 

Thanks David for that information. Very eye-opening - I was not aware that those tents were not being used. I guess I would also wonder why Carnival/HAL would help build themselves a cruise ship terminal that was inadequate to serve their fleet. Does this opposition group propose a the same 500 ft safety zone for the B Street pier too? If so they'd have to close the Holiday Inn whenever a cruise ship was there!

 

Sounds like a bit of a mess over there, but thanks for the info.

 

Bruce

[DAllenTCY]

And it keeps getting more bizzarre all of the time. Just two weeks ago the Coastal Commission approved Phase One of the Embarcadero plan......a mere 28 milliion dollars to move Harbor Blvd 100 or so feet to the east.....and plant a bunch of jackaranda trees. The present budget for all 4 phases of the Embarkadero comes to 228 million dollars. Governor Jerry Brown has promised to strip any redevelopment money from the city, and bring it to Sacramento to be doled out as the state feels is a priority. So, I'm not holding my breath to see anything done in the near future. What is really a shame is that the city spent another few million dollars to "cold iron" both San Diego piers. When ships equipped to use the cables, such as the Oosterdam, they do not run the diesel engines when tied up.

Electicity is provided by a large "extension cord" and there are absolutely no emisssions.

Great idea, but the Oosteerdam is heading to Austrailia in 2013 and none of the other HAL ships are equipped with the necessary plug-ins. If you are adding in your heads....28 million for the new pier, 28 million for proposed infrastructure changes, and several million more spent for the shoreside electical capabilities. Only 3 ships are scheduled for the fall/spring season.....Statendam (once a month from Ft. Lauderdale)....Rotterdam (once a month alternating So. Amer. and So. Pacific) and Oosterdam three times a month (alternating Hawaii and Mexico coastal). Carnival will have the "Spirit" here in San Diego from January until April and then it is off to Alaska and Austrailia.

Go figure!

David

[Boatdrill]

. I guess I would also wonder why Carnival/HAL would help build themselves a cruise ship terminal that was inadequate to serve their fleet.

 

CCL/HAL didn't design it. They just paid for it.

[CruiseRev]

I heard that the new terminal was built for Disney who had very specific criteria. Then they pulled out of San Diego as homeport for their Mexico cruises, leaving a terminal that is not to user friendly for other lines.

 

Any truth to this?

 

The Coalition is interested in keeping the Navy Buildings on Broadway next to and across the street from the Midway. The land across the street, especially, could be valuable for development some day.

[kazu]

This is a very interesting thread to follow. I had no idea that this new terminal was unsuitable for most ships

[Krazy Kruizers]

First of all, the new pier is not of sufficient size to accomodate either the Oosterdam or the Millennium. It has proven to be incapable of servicing the Rotterdam (1,400 capacity) and the one time that the Oosterdam did use it, the Captain reportedly said "Never again".

Secondly, the pier was built against the wishes of a particular group, who continue to oppose the use of the pier. They insisted, among other things, that the pier be open for public use on days when a ship is not berthed there. They insist that the Coast Guard maintain a 500 foot safety zone around the pier when it is in use. (That distance would reach across Harbor Drive and include the Broadway intersection.) They also argue that

the pier only be used when there are 3 ships in port, an instance that occurs 2-3 times a season, and they insisted that the total "footprint" of the pier be limited to it's current size.

I'll try to look up the name of the NIMBY's and post later.

David

P.S. They haven't used the tents for check-in for the past two years. Both ships have the check-in stations inside the B Street pier.

 

"San Diego Navy Broadway Complex Coalition" (SDNBCC) is the group involved. You can look up their many (a dozen or more) lawsuits online, going back many years.

David

 

thanks -- i thought that there were some legal issues -- just couldn't remember what they were and the search feature didn't work for me yesterday here

[Krazy Kruizers]

And it keeps getting more bizzarre all of the time. Just two weeks ago the Coastal Commission approved Phase One of the Embarcadero plan......a mere 28 milliion dollars to move Harbor Blvd 100 or so feet to the east.....and plant a bunch of jackaranda trees. The present budget for all 4 phases of the Embarkadero comes to 228 million dollars. Governor Jerry Brown has promised to strip any redevelopment money from the city, and bring it to Sacramento to be doled out as the state feels is a priority. So, I'm not holding my breath to see anything done in the near future. What is really a shame is that the city spent another few million dollars to "cold iron" both San Diego piers. When ships equipped to use the cables, such as the Oosterdam, they do not run the diesel engines when tied up.

Electicity is provided by a large "extension cord" and there are absolutely no emisssions.

Great idea, but the Oosteerdam is heading to Austrailia in 2013 and none of the other HAL ships are equipped with the necessary plug-ins. If you are adding in your heads....28 million for the new pier, 28 million for proposed infrastructure changes, and several million more spent for the shoreside electical capabilities. Only 3 ships are scheduled for the fall/spring season.....Statendam (once a month from Ft. Lauderdale)....Rotterdam (once a month alternating So. Amer. and So. Pacific) and Oosterdam three times a month (alternating Hawaii and Mexico coastal). Carnival will have the "Spirit" here in San Diego from January until April and then it is off to Alaska and Austrailia.

Go figure!

David

 

 

hadn't read this part before

thanks

[Nutriosotoo]

We boarded the Zaandam (1800+ passengers) last month at the new cruise terminal. Very well organized, we thought. Only took about 20-25 minutes to board even though we were lined up out the entrance door. ----Penny

[DAllenTCY]

The Zaandam does not carry 1,800 passengers....the maximum capacity is 1,432. You boarded on April 10th with two other cruises in port on that day. I wasn't there, so I can't say how embarcation went. I do know that there is only one small elevator set aside for the disabled, and the one escalator is only used for debarkation. Most guests must struggle up a stairway to the very small waiting area. Perhaps you were VIP's in which case you have a dedicated lounge for check-in upstairs. Luckily it wasn't raining that day, because you definitely had to wait outdoors. There is no indoor waiting area prior to the x-ray machines and magnetometers. Private vehicles are not alllowed on the new pier, and busses and taxi's have to wait in the same line.....sometimes for 30 minuetes or more to enter or exit the terminal. You wer very lucky to have everything go so well.

David

[GetOnABoat]

I also boarded the Zaandam April 10 from the new pier. When we got there, around 12:30, the lineup to go through the X-Rays was about 40-50 people long, and only just reached through the doorway. We went straight to the check-in desks behind security there, and then proceeded directly upstairs to board the ship, no waiting except for the security line.

 

Seemed perfectly fine to us, except that after check-in there were no signs or people actually telling you where to go, and the way you were supposed to go was through a half-closed security door with a keypad with no signs at all indicating it was the right way to go. That was the only thing that bothered us. I also remember going up a giant ramp, not stairs to get upstairs.

 

Aside from politics and signage, and maybe higher port fees for that terminal(?), I didn't see a problem.

[Tredebo]

Not entirely related, and I am biased, but doesn't HAL's livery look fine in that photo?

[sassyredhat]

Another thing, with all this nonsense, and the ships getting pulled from SD, we're cruising out of SP and LB.

More money lost for SD. It's nuts. HAL is our line of choice, but without being able to fly on long flights, our choices are limited.

Pat

[LordSpain]

Thanks for the information on the Navy Broadway Complex Coalition. A web search for that organization turns up much interesting reading. I ran across an article from the San Diego Union Tribune dated just yesterday that was reporting the San Diego Unified Port District has prevailed in the lawsuit filed by the Coalition – this court decision just being made on Tuesday. The article does not address however how this decision might affect the building’s future use or the security zone matter. Here’s a link in case anyone is interested.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/04/port-wins-lawsuit-over-broadway-pier-terminal/

 

I’m sensing that building this terminal with so many inadequacies may have been a colossal waste of money – what a shame.

 

Bruce

[DAllenTCY]

I don't wish to politicize the thread, but what is important to me is that the San Diego downtown redevelopment (a project 10 years in design and funding) is going to be annulled by Governor Brown. Why should Sacramento politicians control local redevelopment projects?.......the answer is that they need the money and will find any reason at all to usurp those funds.

David

[LordSpain]

Here’s some additional perspective on this matter from an article that appeared on the San Diego Union-Tribune’s website on Friday.

 

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/06/cruises-mexican-riviera-likely-end-2012/

 

 

Bruce

[luv cruising 007]

Talking directly to a port employee according the workers it cannot handle large cruise ships as well as the old terminal, MANY design flaws in the new terminal along with traffic issues & HOW SAD not even a lunchroom, a place, or chair for the port employees to eat during their breaktime! They pointed out a ledge they sit on to eat! The old terminal is BUTT ugly but I never had a problem sailing out of it! Which included 3 out of 6 times when TWO ships are in port sharing the old terminal, including this past tues when the Oosterdam & Millenium were there! SMOOTH! I was on the ship in less than 20 min for the whole process! Im a fan of new things over old but please leave the old terminal the new one needs the wrecking ball!