Laundry Room Lockout - polluting the seas

[In_Steerage]

Help!

I'm held captive on the Sapphire Princess, with a load of dirty clothes and no way to wash them.

 

Apparently, the Sapphire spews it's laundry room waste water directly into the ocean, so the government forces them to shut down the self-serve laundry when they're in the Pacific Northwest. I'm told the ship's main laundry doesn't have this problem, so they can still wash sheets and towels. But I don't feel like paying $100 to have an itemized list of socks, underwear, shirts and slacks laundered by their people. :mad:

 

On Saturday when this cruise ends in Vancouver, we're transferring to the Golden Princess and heading up the inside passage to Alaska. And nobody on board here can tell me if the laundry on the Golden will be open at all, due to the same problems.

 

We packed 1/3 of the total clothes we needed for these back-to-back cruises, and now we're looking for a plan B.

 

Does anybody know if the Alaska inside passage itinerary allows this grey-water-spewing ship (Golden) to run it's self-serve laundry room?:confused:

[Pam in CA]

I don't know where you got the information about Princess polluting the seas, because it doesn't. Saying it does is giving misleading information that isn't correct. It adheres to very strict environmental standards.

 

There are several factors here that you haven't mentioned (or are unaware of): One is that some regions have stricter standards than others to protect the environment; another is that the ship's laundry doesn't use soap plus the water is treated before being released. In the self-serve laundries, people use any kind of soap, including high-sudsing, that is harder to treat than the ship's laundry. Thus, it's closed in the regions with the stricter standards.

 

The upshot? Send your laundry out or find a laundramat in port. Problem solved. Don't blame the ship because that's not the source of your problem. It's that soap is allowed in the self-serve laundry and passengers often use the wrong type of soap.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Pam in CA

[cherylandtk]

Help!

I'm held captive on the Sapphire Princess, with a load of dirty clothes and no way to wash them.... and now we're looking for a plan B.

It might not be the answer you want, but you could always hand wash the dirty clothes in your bathroom. Wring out most of the water, roll them in towels and stomp on them to get them dry enough to hang in the closet. It's more time consuming than a machine, but if all your clothes are dirty you won't be doing much outside the cabin anyway.

[In_Steerage]

I know, it's hard to believe, but three different Princess reps told us the same thing. This environmental gem (Sapphire Princess) sends it's self-service laundry grey water out into the ocean, but recycles the laundry grey water from it's main laundry room which services the guests sheets and towels.

 

I asked to speak directly to the environmental services representative on board - you know, the one who they introduce you to on Captain's night? Twice I was told - don't call us - we'll call you. I'm still waiting for the call from that officer.

 

So technically, they meet or exceed all environmental laws.

 

Specifically, they pollute where and when they can get away with it. And for whatever reason, the designers of the ship decided to recycle some, but not all of the laundry waste water.

 

And yes Pam, I do blame the ship. "Know before you go"? I planned to use the self-service laundry rather than packing 15 days worth of clothing. Princess gets an F in communication because they failed to mention that their laundry rooms are closed at the time of a cruise when usage would be expected to peak.

 

But the crux of my problem is trying to get information from an apparently information-deficient front desk. Nobody can tell me in what jurisdictions of the Pacific Northwest / Canada / Alaska they are allowed to dump grey water (and allow their self-service laundry to operate).

 

Has anyone else cruised a Sapphire / Golden class ship and had the self-service laundry closed down in this geographic area? :confused:

[MTJSR]

I found this on the Princess website under "Onboard Experience"Although rare, on certain itineraries environmental regulations relating to the consumption of water may impact the operating hours of the launderettes. These restrictions, when applicable will be posted in the Princess Patter. Doesn't help now, but they certainly should warn everyone prior sailing that laundry access may be limited on this cruise.

[Toto2Kansas]

Normally when self service laundry facilities are going to be closed for more than a few hours, it has been posted in the Princess Patter. Especially on those sailing where this is done regularly. Since Princess doesn't make constant announcements, the Patter is your best source of information.

OP, sorry you are stuck with a load of clothes that need washed, but demanding an answer from the cruise line is not going to get them cleaned. Check back in your Princess Patters and see if maybe they didn't announce it in there the day prior...............if not, someone slipped up and forgot. It happens. :( We have sent our laundry in before where they have warned us it would be a few days before it was returned, for much the same reason. Happy hunting for a laundry in port.

[RickEk]

From what I understand, the ship's self-serve laundries will be open in Canadian waters and will shut down again once it reaches Alaskan waters.

[SkinnyDennis]

Long list of Princess wastewater violation citations in Alaska waters in 2009.

 

Sorry about the formatting, but you get the idea.

 

 

 

 

November 2009 Sapphire Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in September. There were three violations. The ship's effluent on September 8 exceeded the allowable level of zinc, on September 16 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia, and onSeptember 16 exceeded the allowable level of copper. Pending Wastewater violation November 2009 Island Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in September. There were two violations. The ship's effluent on September 3 and September 11 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending Wastewater violation November 2009 Sea Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in September. On September 4, the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending Wastewater violation November 2009 Golden Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in September. There were two violations. The ship's effluent on September 7 and September 14 exceeded the allowable level of zinc. Pending Wastewater violation November 2009 Diamond Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in September. On September 15, the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of zinc. Pending Wastewater violation October 2009 . Pending Wastewater violation October 2009 Diamond Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in August. There were two violations. The ship's effluent on August 12 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia and zinc. Pending Wastewater violation October 2009 Sapphire Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in August. There were three violations. The ship's effluent on August 11 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia and on August 11 and AUgust 25 the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of biological oxygen demand. Pending Wastewater violation October 2009 Sea Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in August. There were two violations. The ship's effluent on August 16 and August 26 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending Wastewater violation October 2009 Pacific Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in August. On August 3, the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of copper. Pending Wastewater violation October 2009 Golden Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in August. There were three violations. The ship's effluent on August 3 exceeded the allowable level of chlorine and on August 3 and August 10 exceeded the allowable level of zinc. Pending Wastewater violation October 2009 Island Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in August. There were two violations. The ship's effluent on August 14 and August 20 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending Wastewater violation September 2009

Pending

Wastewater violation

September 2009 Pending

Wastewater violation

September 2009 Diamond Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in July. On July 29, the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending

Wastewater violation

September 2009 Island Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in July. On July 9, the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending

Wastewater violation

September 2009 Pacific Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in July. There were two violations. The ship's effluent on July 6 and July 20 exceeded the allowable level of copper. Pending

Wastewater violation

September 2009 Sapphire Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in July. There were three violations. The ship's effluent on July 13, July 14, and July 28 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending

Wastewater violation

September 2009 Sea Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in July. On July 27, the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending

Wastewater violation

September 2009 r. Pending

Wastewater violation

August 2009 Sea Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in June. On June 17, the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending

Wastewater violation

August 2009

Pending

Wastewater violation

August 2009 Island Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in June. There were two violations. The ship's effluent on June 11 and June 25 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia. Pending

Wastewater violation

August 2009 Golden Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in June. On June 1, the ship's effluent exceeded the allowable level of zinc. Pending

Wastewater violation

August 2009 Diamond Princess, Princess Cruises

The ship was cited for violating Alaska Wastewater Quality Standards in June. There were two violations. The ship's effluent on June 3 and June 17 exceeded the allowable level of ammonia.

Pending

Wastewater violation

[captainron]

That's one heck of a list...and a good majority of them are "decisions pending".

 

In most western civilized countries you have to be found guilty in a court of law before being considered culpable of an offence under any law. In the majority of the alleged cases you cite, they are "pending" decision.

 

Methinks you are trying to be one hell of a great environmentalist here without much supporting evidence. Don't feel bad, as there are many others on our CC boards who post similar issues without evidence supporting the case.

 

Ciao for now!!!

[kruisey]

From what I understand, the ship's self-serve laundries will be open in Canadian waters and will shut down again once it reaches Alaskan waters.

I am most concerned now if this grey water is being let into our waters.

We are now having sea life into our Port again.Orca Whales swam up to Lionsgate Bridge this week fishing for herring.:)

I was of the opinion that Princess recycled all grey water used on their ships before returning to the sea.Now I will check things out.

[SkinnyDennis]

That's one heck of a list...and a good majority of them are "decisions pending".

 

In most western civilized countries you have to be found guilty in a court of law before being considered culpable of an offence under any law. In the majority of the alleged cases you cite, they are "pending" decision.

 

Methinks you are trying to be one hell of a great environmentalist here without much supporting evidence. Don't feel bad, as there are many others on our CC boards who post similar issues without evidence supporting the case.

 

Ciao for now!!!

Just posted for what it's worth.

 

You thinks wrong, I saw this a few days ago and thought it might add to the discussion.

 

Don't feel bad. I don't.

[bdjam]

Apparently, the Sapphire spews it's laundry room waste water directly into the ocean, so the government forces them to shut down the self-serve laundry when they're in the Pacific Northwest. I'm told the ship's main laundry doesn't have this problem, so they can still wash sheets and towels. But I don't feel like paying $100 to have an itemized list of socks, underwear, shirts and slacks laundered by their people. :mad:

 

Are you sure it is spewed directly into the ocean without any kind of treatment? The regulations in the open ocean are quite loose - how do you think that big island of plastic bags got out there? - but I wonder how true it is that the pipe leads from the washer directly into the ocean?

 

There are a lot of environmental regulations that take effect in different areas - cruise ships switch to a different kind of fuel in California waters so the funnel exhaust isn't as polluting. Princess is trying to abide by the rules (the list of violations notwithstanding) by locking you out of the laundry. Which would you prefer? That they stop spewing or that they let you launder and then spew?

 

Methinks you are trying to be one hell of a great environmentalist here without much supporting evidence. Don't feel bad, as there are many others on our CC boards who post similar issues without evidence supporting the case.

As an environmentalist, I think it a good thing to point out violations - whether or not they are pending. It gives Princess a chance to address issues and take action to stop them from repeating - like shutting down passenger laundry facilities in certain geographical areas. The violations noted are from 2009 - hopefully 2010 was a better year for Princess.

Edited May 13, 2011 by bdjam

[RickEk]

That's one heck of a list...and a good majority of them are "decisions pending".

 

In most western civilized countries you have to be found guilty in a court of law before being considered culpable of an offence under any law. In the majority of the alleged cases you cite, they are "pending" decision.

 

Methinks you are trying to be one hell of a great environmentalist here without much supporting evidence. Don't feel bad, as there are many others on our CC boards who post similar issues without evidence supporting the case.

 

Ciao for now!!!

 

And here's the rest of the list.... seems that every line that operates in Alaska is culpable... http://www.cruisejunkie.com/alaskafines.html

[Sapphire723]

And here's the rest of the list.... seems that every line that operates in Alaska is culpable... http://www.cruisejunkie.com/alaskafines.html

 

I love an article I read a while ago that had said that Princess was one of the the biggest cruise line polluters of Alaska. The article failed to mention that Princess is also an Alaska specialist so they cruise to Alaska more than most other lines. They didn't do a ratio that compared apples to apples either!

 

I think Princess is trying to balance the customers' desires with the need to control pollution. Of course, getting away with all self-laundry would help pollution. So would not washing any ones towels for the whole week. However, many customers would be unhappy with these decisions and Princess tries its hardest to cater to them.

[regnig]

Help!

I'm held captive on the Sapphire Princess, with a load of dirty clothes and no way to wash them.

................................

Does anybody know if the Alaska inside passage itinerary allows this grey-water-spewing ship (Golden) to run it's self-serve laundry room?:confused:

 

The OP really didn't want to start an environmental discussion here but rather was asking a simple question. Since no Princess staff ON the Sapphire can/will answer it can anyone here on CC provide her with a YES or NO as all they really want are some clean clothes.

 

I'd also be interested in that answer for future reference.

Edited May 13, 2011 by larsen

[Loonbeam]

I made a few calls.

 

The answer appears to be somewhere in the middle. The passenger laundry greywater IS treated then released, but due to the variety of potential substances that can be introduced in the washers they can't be sure it will meet Alaska's strict standards (A lot of Alaska's water is tidally locked in the area) so they apparently disable the system. The treated water will meet international standards by a fair margin. This can also happen in certain parts of the Med and Baltic apparently. Since the ships laundry uses consistent methods and solutions, these can be accounted for in treatment. Bleach and bleach alternatives appear to be the #1 problem.

 

As far as the violations list, the Pending notice does not mean results are wrong, it means that any sanctions for the violation have yet to be determined. If on a subsequent test the problem does not reoccur, then the initial violation is often waived as an aberration.

[onthelake]

Ask your room steward if/when the laundry room may be open - they are the ones who lock/unlock it. Also, I googled laundromat downtown Vancouver and found quite a number of them. It may not be how you planned to spend your time in Vancouver but it is definately an option.

Edited May 13, 2011 by onthelake

[pablo222]

The OP really didn't want to start an environmental discussion here but rather was asking a simple question.

 

Really? I thought the purpose of the post was to vent that

he couldn't use the self-serve laundry, and that the people

he asked about it were not responsive.

 

I base this on all the inflammatory language used: 'held captive',

'spew', etc. If the post were 'a simple question', I don't think

the language would have been used.

[negc]

And here's the rest of the list.... seems that every line that operates in Alaska is culpable... http://www.cruisejunkie.com/alaskafines.html

True, but it certainly appears that Princess ships predominate by a considerable margin. Perhaps they operate more ships in Alaska than other lines but is it by enough to account for the extremely large number of reported violations?:confused:

[kruisey]

Yes it is an enviromental one to me personally.

Since reading this thread I have sent an e-mail to Prime Minister of Canada with my corncerns regarding Grey Water.

I always use enviromentally friendly washing suds to do my laundry.

Maybe it would help to education the general public into using these products even when traveling.

Then even when the unprocessed result is put into the sea it will not cause the damage that the regular products would do.

Edited May 13, 2011 by kruisey

[Loonbeam]

I don't think all lines offer laundry rooms, so if this is being driven by those to some extent might make sense...

 

True, but it certainly appears that Princess ships predominate by a considerable margin. Perhaps they operate more ships in Alaska than other lines but is it by enough to account for the extremely large number of reported violations?:confused:

[DMorris]

I wonder of Princess has this policy fleet wide when doing Alaska cruises??? I am on the Coral in August and need to rethinking packing or bite the bullet and send out laundry. We are on a 4 day land tour prior to the cruise so will need to do a bit of laundry after that.

[buckirj1]

I appreciate the OP's bringing this up. I'd also be peeved if a cruiseline that offers self-serve laundries would close them down without prior notification (emergencies notwithstanding, of course). If nothing else gets resolved, I understand Skagway has a nice laundromat where one could wash a quick load of clothes. The topic comes up frequently in the Alaska forum.

[PescadoAmarillo]

I appreciate the OP's bringing this up. I'd also be peeved if a cruiseline that offers self-serve laundries would close them down without prior notification (emergencies notwithstanding, of course). If nothing else gets resolved, I understand Skagway has a nice laundromat where one could wash a quick load of clothes. The topic comes up frequently in the Alaska forum.

We've done Alaska cruises twice on ships without self serve laundries; a laundromat in Skagway saved us. It's been 11 years, so I can't remember name or location, but we were able to put start our load and leave to go sightseeing. An attendant moved it from washer to dryer and we just returned in time to take it out of the dryer and fold it. We then left it there and continued sightseeing, retrieving it before we returned to the ship.

[Pam in CA]

I made a few calls.

 

The answer appears to be somewhere in the middle. The passenger laundry greywater IS treated then released, but due to the variety of potential substances that can be introduced in the washers they can't be sure it will meet Alaska's strict standards (A lot of Alaska's water is tidally locked in the area) so they apparently disable the system. The treated water will meet international standards by a fair margin. This can also happen in certain parts of the Med and Baltic apparently. Since the ships laundry uses consistent methods and solutions, these can be accounted for in treatment. Bleach and bleach alternatives appear to be the #1 problem.

 

As far as the violations list, the Pending notice does not mean results are wrong, it means that any sanctions for the violation have yet to be determined. If on a subsequent test the problem does not reoccur, then the initial violation is often waived as an aberration.

Excellent information. Thank you. The impression being given is that grey water is somehow polluted water or unfit for the environment. It isn't. It's probably as pure as your local tap water. I bet it's purer than mine as there are all sorts of minerals and it's very hard, leaving a crust on everything.