Barcelona Sales Tax anyone?

[Emmaizzy]

Just read on Single Cruise's guy's twitter that he is being charged 8% Spanish VAT even after sail away!

 

Anyone have any more info on this?

 

Tweet posted below:

 

@NclSglcruiser

Craig B

So for some reason they will be charging 8% tax Spanish vat even when on international waters! On my last cruise it was only when in port.

 

Thanks

Emma

[Emmaizzy]

and unfortunately yes you do see this:

 

http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1268133

 

I live in Jersey (outside of EU) I had no idea that duty free shopping had ended! Not entirely happy that will now have to budget for an extra 8% on top of food/drinks and 18% on everything else! Thank god we can take on our own wine.

 

But then I found this on another post:

 

Spanish VAT

 

The Spanish VAT targets “Products and Services”. The new regulation starting on January 01st, 2010 calls for Spanish VAT to be applied to bars and specialty restaurant sales conducted within 12 miles of Spanish territorial waters. Spanish VAT rates will also increase as of July 01st, 2010.

 

· Effective January 1, 2010; Spain has adopted an "use or enjoyment" rule for determining when restaurant and catering services are taxable.

· Bar and specialty restaurant services enjoyed in Spanish waters during international cruises with port calls in Spain will be subject to 7% VAT until 6/30/2010 and 8% starting on 7/1/2010.

· The VAT will apply only while the ship is in Spanish waters (12 nautical miles), not for the entire voyage.

 

 

Seems a bit confusing - I'll keep digging.

 

Regards

Emma

[Emmaizzy]

Having dug further I have now discovered that only Spain is charing this VAT levy the cruise lines managed to negotiate with other countries. Further if you set sail from Spain the VAT is levied for the entire cruise unless you visit a a non EU (for VAT/Custom purposes) port of call and then the VAT is only charged within 12 NM of Spain.

 

Now I know there is a reason for tax but it does seem very unfair for the Spanish Government to charge this VAT on passengers which aren't even in their waters! Unless of course only Spanish are coming to rescue us should the need arise!

 

I'm a first time cruiser and it seems I have a lot to learn - won't be cruising from Spain again!

 

I hope NCL aren't being really cheeky and charging the 8% on top of the tip as well, ie, Drink (£10) plus service charge (15% being 15p) = £10.15 plus 8%!

 

Emma

[garycarla]

...

I hope NCL aren't being really cheeky and charging the 8% on top of the tip as well, ie, Drink (£10) plus service charge (15% being 15p) = £10.15 plus 8%!

 

I can not imagine NCL or anyone else reducing their 15% service charge just because somebody else (Spain) is getting tax money.

 

I think Spain is putting their significant cruising and tourist business at risk with this ruling.

[4774Papa]

and unfortunately yes you do see this:

 

http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1268133

 

I live in Jersey (outside of EU) I had no idea that duty free shopping had ended! Not entirely happy that will now have to budget for an extra 8% on top of food/drinks and 18% on everything else! Thank god we can take on our own wine.

 

But then I found this on another post:

 

Spanish VAT

 

The Spanish VAT targets “Products and Services”. The new regulation starting on January 01st, 2010 calls for Spanish VAT to be applied to bars and specialty restaurant sales conducted within 12 miles of Spanish territorial waters. Spanish VAT rates will also increase as of July 01st, 2010.

 

· Effective January 1, 2010; Spain has adopted an "use or enjoyment" rule for determining when restaurant and catering services are taxable.

· Bar and specialty restaurant services enjoyed in Spanish waters during international cruises with port calls in Spain will be subject to 7% VAT until 6/30/2010 and 8% starting on 7/1/2010.

· The VAT will apply only while the ship is in Spanish waters (12 nautical miles), not for the entire voyage.

 

 

Seems a bit confusing - I'll keep digging.

 

Regards

Emma

 

There is more, I think if the cruise only goes to EU ports such as those in France and Italy, then the VAT applies during the entire voyage. This was not the case in our Jade cruise to Morocco.

[WeeRapscallion]

How is the total calculated on a $10 drink?

 

1) $10 + $1.5 (15% of the $10 as service charge) + $0.08 (8% VAT on $10) = $11.58

 

or

 

2) $10 + $0.08 (8% VAT on $10) = $10.08 + $1.51 (15% of the $10.08 as service charge) = $11.59

 

or

 

3) $10 + $1.5 (15% of the $10 as service charge) = $11.50 + $0.92 (8% VAT on $11.50) = $12.42

 

Can anyone confirm which is true?

[sverigecruiser]

If the cruise only goes to EU ports, are they allowed to have their international staff on the ship? Do they have to employ citizens in a country within the EU for cruises within the EU?

[njhorseman]

If the cruise only goes to EU ports, are they allowed to have their international staff on the ship? Do they have to employ citizens in a country within the EU for cruises within the EU?

 

It's the regular international crew.

[Ron the Rev]

We got caught out on this over our last Christmas/ New-year cruise.

Price of drink plus 15% plus VAT on the grand total until we got 12 miles out at sea. This could make a sober man of me!.

[KandJCruising]

How is the total calculated on a $10 drink?

 

1) $10 + $1.5 (15% of the $10 as service charge) + $0.08 (8% VAT on $10) = $11.58

 

or

 

2) $10 + $0.08 (8% VAT on $10) = $10.08 + $1.51 (15% of the $10.08 as service charge) = $11.59

 

or

 

3) $10 + $1.5 (15% of the $10 as service charge) = $11.50 + $0.92 (8% VAT on $11.50) = $12.42

 

Can anyone confirm which is true?

I'd have to go back and look at receipts, but I believe the first example was correct (the 15% and VAT was based on the base amount).

[sverigecruiser]

It's the regular international crew.

 

I know that. It's extremely strange that Spain is allowed to charge for the VAT if the cruise stays within the EU when the laws about the staff isn't followed.

[Emmaizzy]

Unfortunately on the Med Cruises on NCL the VAT is applied the entire time.

 

I sincerely hope that NCL will not be adding 8% to the service charge. In my post previously this is what I meant not that they would not charge the service charge.

 

I think I'll email them.

[Cruisin'cockney]

I know that. It's extremely strange that Spain is allowed to charge for the VAT if the cruise stays within the EU when the laws about the staff isn't followed.

 

As much as I love cruising out of Barcelona, I hope that NCL remember that there are many attractive med homeports available that do not impose these draconian tax regimes for cruise ships in their waters. When lines start abandoning Spanish ports I am sure they will have a rethink.

 

In the meantime, we will seek to avoid this tax by spending as little as possible onboard or on land in Spain. This will also hurt NCL and if enough people do similar they will no doubt bring pressure to bear.

 

These are the sort of EU laws that turn Brit's off of becoming full EU members.

[mypleasure]

If the cruise only goes to EU ports, are they allowed to have their international staff on the ship? Do they have to employ citizens in a country within the EU for cruises within the EU?

 

No they do not have to employ EU citizens because the ship is sailing within the EU. There is no such law to my knowledge.

[mypleasure]

As much as I love cruising out of Barcelona' date=' I hope that NCL remember that there are many attractive med homeports available that do not impose these draconian tax regimes for cruise ships in their waters. When lines start abandoning Spanish ports I am sure they will have a rethink.

 

I totally agree with this.

 

In the meantime, we will seek to avoid this tax by spending as little as possible onboard or on land in Spain. This will also hurt NCL and if enough people do similar they will no doubt bring pressure to bear.

 

I will be reducing my spending onboard definitely.

 

These are the sort of EU laws that turn Brit's off of becoming full EU members.

 

 

Don't start me off on the EU...

[mypleasure]

Unfortunately on the Med Cruises on NCL the VAT is applied the entire time.

 

I sincerely hope that NCL will not be adding 8% to the service charge. In my post previously this is what I meant not that they would not charge the service charge.

 

I think I'll email them.

 

I see where you are coming from. Will be interested to know what they say when you email.

[garycarla]

I see where you are coming from. Will be interested to know what they say when you email.

 

Would be interesting. More interesting is wondering if the answer is anything like the facts. 50/50 chance at best.

[sverigecruiser]

No they do not have to employ EU citizens because the ship is sailing within the EU. There is no such law to my knowledge.

 

 

???? Are you really sure about that? It's extremely difficult for someone who isn't EU citizen to be allowed to work in Sweden, I can't see how it can be much different in the rest of the EU.

 

Even if NCL are allowed to employ people from outside the EU, I doubt that they are allowed to give them the same salary as they normally give their employees on the ships.

 

I know that NCL have their usual international crew on their European cruises, even when they never leave the EU, so obviously they have found a way around the rules and laws within the EU. The only thing I say is that it's very strange that Spain are allowed to demand VAT during the whole cruise just because it's within the EU when NCL don't have to follow EU laws when it comes to their employees. Do they sell duty free alcohol on their European cruises? If yes, how can they be allowed to do that if the cruise stays within the EU?

[KandJCruising]

Just wrapped up the 4-day Med a bit ago, and can confirm that they are adding the 8% VAT. Drinks (and everything else) were suddenly more expensive after the TA.

[HokiePoq]

Unfortunately on the Med Cruises on NCL the VAT is applied the entire time.

 

I sincerely hope that NCL will not be adding 8% to the service charge. In my post previously this is what I meant not that they would not charge the service charge.

 

I think I'll email them.

 

Just returned from the Epic and they did not charge it on the service charge. They also did not charge it on shore excursions which I was most afraid of. I asked that question as it would have been worthwhile to fill out the refund forms for that. I wished I'd been smarter and bought my souvenirs (and more liquor) on the TA. Liquor prices jumped the most as EU rules came into effect plus the VAT. The $5 T shirt sale (which I didn't get to in time) was a real bargain on the TA as shirts that appeared to be the same were $12.50. A sign says they are paying the VAT. This is true but the prices are way up from Caribbean prices to absorb it.

[twosit]

We just got off the Equinox and we were charged sales tax while we were in Spanish waters. They put a note in the newletter that morning and we were definitely charged extra tax on our drinks on the ship.

[HokiePoq]

We just got off the Equinox and we were charged sales tax while we were in Spanish waters. They put a note in the newletter that morning and we were definitely charged extra tax on our drinks on the ship.

 

Not sure where your cruise originated, but we were told on the Epic that VAT would be charged for the whole cruise since it began and ended in Barcelona.

(We didn't pay it from Miami to Barcelona.)

[njhorseman]

???? Are you really sure about that? It's extremely difficult for someone who isn't EU citizen to be allowed to work in Sweden, I can't see how it can be much different in the rest of the EU.

 

Even if NCL are allowed to employ people from outside the EU, I doubt that they are allowed to give them the same salary as they normally give their employees on the ships.

 

I know that NCL have their usual international crew on their European cruises, even when they never leave the EU, so obviously they have found a way around the rules and laws within the EU. The only thing I say is that it's very strange that Spain are allowed to demand VAT during the whole cruise just because it's within the EU when NCL don't have to follow EU laws when it comes to their employees. Do they sell duty free alcohol on their European cruises? If yes, how can they be allowed to do that if the cruise stays within the EU?

 

I don't claim to have any knowledge of EU laws, but I do know that it's not just NCL that employs their regular international crew on these cruises, so perhaps your understanding of the law is less than accurate. Please remember that ships with international itineraries in general are subject to the employment laws of the countries in which they are registered, not the countries in which they are making port calls. I'm having a problem making the logical connection between Spain requiring VAT to be collected for the entire cruise when the ship only calls on EU ports, with whatever EU employment laws are. Tax laws aren't employment laws.

[mypleasure]

???? Are you really sure about that? It's extremely difficult for someone who isn't EU citizen to be allowed to work in Sweden, I can't see how it can be much different in the rest of the EU.

 

Even if NCL are allowed to employ people from outside the EU, I doubt that they are allowed to give them the same salary as they normally give their employees on the ships.

 

I know that NCL have their usual international crew on their European cruises, even when they never leave the EU, so obviously they have found a way around the rules and laws within the EU. The only thing I say is that it's very strange that Spain are allowed to demand VAT during the whole cruise just because it's within the EU when NCL don't have to follow EU laws when it comes to their employees. Do they sell duty free alcohol on their European cruises? If yes, how can they be allowed to do that if the cruise stays within the EU?

 

 

I think this is something to do with International waters and the registry of the ship i.e Bahamas rather than a loophole in EU law. I am no lawyer so really unless one appears we are all in the dark and guessing on this.

 

 

I also find it strange about the Spanish VAT issue but, it could be worse, there are many countries in Europe with much higher VAT levels than Spain has. Can non EU citizens claim it back at the airport?

 

As for duty free, no idea, maybe it is like EU airports where you have to show you are travelling to a destination outside of the EU to buy?

[Emmaizzy]

If you live outside the EU you can claim tax back but each country has it's own minimum spend. Spain is really high 90 Euros where as in the UK I think its about £15. It has to be spent in one go too so you can't add all your receipts together so probably if you were thinking of buying something on the ship save it to the last day for sale bargains and one receipt.

 

It my experience you'd be amazed how many shops can't find the forms you need to complete to claim your tax back so I would ask to see them before you purchase.