Barcelona Sales Tax anyone?

[sverigecruiser]

I don't claim to have any knowledge of EU laws, but I do know that it's not just NCL that employs their regular international crew on these cruises, so perhaps your understanding of the law is less than accurate. Please remember that ships with international itineraries in general are subject to the employment laws of the countries in which they are registered, not the countries in which they are making port calls. I'm having a problem making the logical connection between Spain requiring VAT to be collected for the entire cruise when the ship only calls on EU ports, with whatever EU employment laws are. Tax laws aren't employment laws.

 

I have never thought that it's strange that the cruiselines use their international crew on cruises within the EU but I do think it's strange that Spain are allowed to require VAT just because the ship stays within the EU.

 

Can you explain to me why NCL don't just register the Pride Of America in Bahamas so that they can use an international crew on their Hawaiian itineraries? It's very much the same thing. I know, it's not exactly the same thing but rather close.

 

Yes, tax laws are not employment laws but I do think that the employment laws are much stronger than the tax laws.

 

My guess is that NCL have made some kind of deal with Spain.

[sverigecruiser]

I think this is something to do with International waters and the registry of the ship i.e Bahamas rather than a loophole in EU law. I am no lawyer so really unless one appears we are all in the dark and guessing on this.

 

 

I also find it strange about the Spanish VAT issue but, it could be worse, there are many countries in Europe with much higher VAT levels than Spain has. Can non EU citizens claim it back at the airport?

 

As for duty free, no idea, maybe it is like EU airports where you have to show you are travelling to a destination outside of the EU to buy?

 

When it comes to the employment and NCLs internationel crew it can have something to do with international waters and the registry of the ship but then I don't understand the Spanish VAT.

[njhorseman]

I have never thought that it's strange that the cruiselines use their international crew on cruises within the EU but I do think it's strange that Spain are allowed to require VAT just because the ship stays within the EU.

 

Can you explain to me why NCL don't just register the Pride Of America in Bahamas so that they can use an international crew on their Hawaiian itineraries? It's very much the same thing. I know, it's not exactly the same thing but rather close.

 

Yes, tax laws are not employment laws but I do think that the employment laws are much stronger than the tax laws.

 

My guess is that NCL have made some kind of deal with Spain.

 

NCL couldn't do its current Hawaiin itinerary if POA was not registered in the US. A foreign flagged cruise ship must call on at least one foreign port, while the POA sails strictly in the US. The nearest foreign port to Hawaii is Fanning Island, and going there takes the ship a significant distance from Hawaii...at a great cost of fuel and time...and taking the passengers somewhere most have no interest in going.

 

I find your comment "NCL must have made some kind of deal with Spain" to be totally incomprehensible. Why would you think this is some sort of deal worked with NCL? Every cruise line uses its regular international crew in the EU. Why are you singling out NCL?

[4774Papa]

NCL couldn't do its current Hawaiin itinerary if POA was not registered in the US. A foreign flagged cruise ship must call on at least one foreign port, while the POA sails strictly in the US. The nearest foreign port to Hawaii is Fanning Island, and going there takes the ship a significant distance from Hawaii...at a great cost of fuel and time...and taking the passengers somewhere most have no interest in going.

 

I find your comment "NCL must have made some kind of deal with Spain" to be totally incomprehensible. Why would you think this is some sort of deal worked with NCL? Every cruise line uses its regular international crew in the EU. Why are you singling out NCL?

njhorseman, I totally agree with you.

Also, I lived in Germany for four years and heard about all the German taxes from the locals. The Income tax rate was 50% or more, the VAT was 17%. Taxes are generally higher in European countries than the USA.

[sverigecruiser]

NCL couldn't do its current Hawaiin itinerary if POA was not registered in the US. A foreign flagged cruise ship must call on at least one foreign port, while the POA sails strictly in the US. The nearest foreign port to Hawaii is Fanning Island, and going there takes the ship a significant distance from Hawaii...at a great cost of fuel and time...and taking the passengers somewhere most have no interest in going.

 

I find your comment "NCL must have made some kind of deal with Spain" to be totally incomprehensible. Why would you think this is some sort of deal worked with NCL? Every cruise line uses its regular international crew in the EU. Why are you singling out NCL?

 

I know about the reasons why POA is registered in the US and that is exactly my point. US laws are used around Hawaii so I think that EU laws should be used within the EU.

 

I don't single out NCL, why should I when I love them? It's the same with every cruise line. What I mean is that since Spain are allowed to take the VAT they must have made some kind of deal. Something like NCL let Spain get the VAT and Spain help NCL with their international crew. Every cruise line with an international crew, with low salaries, must made some kind of deal with the authorities somewhere within the EU, if not they have to give them a higher salary.

 

When we cruised within the EU, from Great Britain to Ireland, no VAT was added. Don't know why.

[sverigecruiser]

The nearest foreign port to Hawaii is Fanning Island, and going there takes the ship a significant distance from Hawaii...at a great cost of fuel and time...and taking the passengers somewhere most have no interest in going.

 

Most people may have no interest in going to Kiribati but we really loved it. We have no interest in the Hawaii itinerary right now, without seadays and with overnight stays on the islands.

 

We want to cruise around the Hawaiian islands again but not without seadays!

[njhorseman]

I know about the reasons why POA is registered in the US and that is exactly my point. US laws are used around Hawaii so I think that EU laws should be used within the EU.

 

I don't single out NCL, why should I when I love them? It's the same with every cruise line. What I mean is that since Spain are allowed to take the VAT they must have made some kind of deal. Something like NCL let Spain get the VAT and Spain help NCL with their international crew. Every cruise line with an international crew, with low salaries, must made some kind of deal with the authorities somewhere within the EU, if not they have to give them a higher salary.

 

When we cruised within the EU, from Great Britain to Ireland, no VAT was added. Don't know why.

 

I suspect you're assuming something about EU laws that isn't true. I suspect EU law permits foreign flagged cruise ships to sail itineraries that do not call on ports outside the EU. US law does not permit foreign flagged cruise ships to sail itineraries without calling on a foreign port. Can you cite an EU law that is similar to the US Passenger Vessel Services Act? It is the foreign flag and international maritime law that exempts the cruise line from the employment laws of the countries in which they are making port calls. The international crew are also working on ships that originate in EU ports outside of Spain, so trying to attribute this to some deal involving Spanish taxes doesn't hold any water.

[sverigecruiser]

I suspect you're assuming something about EU laws that isn't true. I suspect EU law permits foreign flagged cruise ships to sail itineraries that do not call on ports outside the EU. US law does not permit foreign flagged cruise ships to sail itineraries without calling on a foreign port. Can you cite an EU law that is similar to the US Passenger Vessel Services Act? It is the foreign flag and international maritime law that exempts the cruise line from the employment laws of the countries in which they are making port calls. The international crew are also working on ships that originate in EU ports outside of Spain, so trying to attribute this to some deal involving Spanish taxes doesn't hold any water.

 

Obviously EU laws permit foreign flagged cruise ships to sail itineraries within the EU since they do it but that doesn't answer why Spain get the VAT and Breat Britain, for example, doesn't.

 

I have never said that it's strange that the cruise lines can have their international crew but since Spain get the VAT, it's strange.

 

I have never said that Spain is the only country which might be able to make some kind of deal but obviously Great Britain don't get any VAT.

 

I guess that we just have to agree that we disagree.

[bogofman]

Last September we sailed out of mallorca (spain) and returned 7 days later, we were only charged 8% when in spanish waters, eg barcelona and mallorca, not when in Italy,

[Emmaizzy]

This is what NCL have sent to me attached.

 

It doesn't answer all my questions, like is bowling still $5 dollars of $5 plus Spanish VAT?

 

I'm so thankful we can take on our wine and soft drinks.

NCL Spanish Tax doc 1.pdf

NCL Spanish Tax doc 2.pdf

[Single Cruiser]

On the last day they had an event where they assisted non-eu citizens who had spent enough to get a refund.

 

Basically if Epic had stopped at a non-EU port then the tax would only have applied when in port. I was on Ocean Village last year which went from Spain-Spain but we stopped for half day in Tunisia.

 

And as others have said the 8% is on the base price just like the tip is 15% on base price and both are itemised on your receipt so you can quickly add up how much VAT you have paid in the shops and bars!

[Emmaizzy]

Obviously EU laws permit foreign flagged cruise ships to sail itineraries within the EU since they do it but that doesn't answer why Spain get the VAT and Breat Britain, for example, doesn't.

 

I have never said that it's strange that the cruise lines can have their international crew but since Spain get the VAT, it's strange.

 

I have never said that Spain is the only country which might be able to make some kind of deal but obviously Great Britain don't get any VAT.

 

I guess that we just have to agree that we disagree.

 

I believe it is (the VAT) because it is actually legal for all countries in the EU to collect their applicable VAT from cruise ships, ie, if you sailed from Rome then it would be Italian VAT. However, all of the countries within the EU, except Spain, agreed not to charge the VAT when the ships were outside their waters (12 miles I believe). If you read my attachment it does refer to the exact EU law re the tax.

 

Re non EU crew - I worked in the record industry for many years and when we brought artists over from the States (or outside EU) on a tour etc we had to justify the rest of the entourage (for want of a better word), ie, the backing singers, roadies, musicians to allow them to work in the UK. The justification was it was not feasible or realistic to swap all the human elements of the crew, however, we would have to abide by some UK employment laws.

 

I don't know but I would assume that non EU citizens are permitted to work on the international cruises for pretty much the same reasons that logistically swapping the entire crew once in Barcelona and the costs of returning the crew to wherever twice is not a reasonable business expectation either in providing a service to guests or financially.

 

Anyone who shouts at me will be removed from my xmas card list!

 

Regards

Emma

[Dm84]

This is what NCL have sent to me attached.

 

It doesn't answer all my questions, like is bowling still $5 dollars of $5 plus Spanish VAT?

I didn't go bowling, but I did play knock hockey and some video games and those didn't have VAT applied.

 

I'm so thankful we can take on our wine and soft drinks.

I found the price of soda on land in Barcelona to be expensive, almost to the point of being more expensive than they were charging on the ship. The soda package did have VAT added, but it is worth it for anyone who drinks 3 or more cans a day.

[L.I.T.A.]

We just came back from the Epic from Barcelona. The tax on drinks, food is 8% and 15% service charge.On SPA services it`s 18% tax and 18% service charge. There is no tax in the gift shop.

Do all cruise lines that sails out of Spain charge tax?

If ships from other contries are tax free, the solution is simple, skip Spain.

We had a great time, but will not sail from Spain next time.

[Sauer-kraut]

We just came back from the Epic from Barcelona. The tax on drinks, food is 8% and 15% service charge.On SPA services it`s 18% tax and 18% service charge. There is no tax in the gift shop.

Do all cruise lines that sails out of Spain charge tax?

If ships from other contries are tax free, the solution is simple, skip Spain.

We had a great time, but will not sail from Spain next time.

 

Yes it is a Spanish rule, when a ship sails from Barcelona or some other Spanish port and ends in a Spanish port the extra VAT is charged for the entire cruise. Doesn't matter what cruiseline.

If the ship originates in Spain and goes to another non-EU country then the VAT is only charged while in Spanish waters.

[cruising 2013]

When we were on the Jade it ws charged on anything you bought on board the ship while it was in port until it was 12 miles out. Moral of the story, don't buy anything until the ship has left. We ended up paying it on a number of things that we signed up for while the ship was in port. lesson learnt for the next time.

[brfan]

Yes it is a Spanish rule, when a ship sails from Barcelona or some other Spanish port and ends in a Spanish port the extra VAT is charged for the entire cruise. Doesn't matter what cruiseline.

If the ship originates in Spain and goes to another non-EU country then the VAT is only charged while in Spanish waters.

 

I have a TA booked, it starts in Rome, but one of the ports of call is Barcelona. Will the VAT only be charged while in Barcelona or for the entire European portion of the cruise because the ship stops in Spain?

[Single Cruiser]

I have a TA booked, it starts in Rome, but one of the ports of call is Barcelona. Will the VAT only be charged while in Barcelona or for the entire European portion of the cruise because the ship stops in Spain?

 

Yes, just when you are in Spanish waters.

[funkykim]

Ok silly me what is the TA? Usually good at figuring abbreviations but I've had very little sleep this week.

 

Thanks

[njhorseman]

Ok silly me what is the TA? Usually good at figuring abbreviations but I've had very little sleep this week.

 

Thanks

 

Transatlantic