So Whats The Best Game...

[F22Smitty]

So whats the best game with the highest percentage of winning at a cruise casino?

 

I have played them all, but Roulette and Craps seem to be the best for me.

 

What are your thoughts?

[cb at sea]

Roulette actually has some of the lowest "odds"....along the lines of slot machines! BJ (if played properly and according to suggested play!) has some of the highest odds of winning. Craps, too.

 

However, cruise casinos don't always operate under "Vegas" rules....and I've never had much luck with ANY game on a ship!

[Casino Player]

So whats the best game with the highest percentage of winning at a cruise casino?

 

I have played them all, but Roulette and Craps seem to be the best for me.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO F22 Smitty: Roulette has some of the worst odds in the Casino. You bet a single number if you win you get paid back 35-1. True odds are 37-1. The Casino takes all of your bet if you lose and pay you at not true odds.

 

That said, the only game in the Casino that pays true odds is craps, however, only on certain bets. They are the odds portion of a Pass Line bet, the odds portion of a Come bet, The odds portion of the Don't Pass, and odds portion of Don't Come. Any other bet in the casino pays at less than true odds. Therefore, those are your best bets. There is one other bet that isn't bad. The Place bet on the six and eight pay at the least house edge. Almost like a Pass Line or Come bet.

[MrCo9]

Best game and highest winning percentage really should be two different questions. Best game is the one you win $$ while playing or have a great time while losing. The one with the lowest house advantage is Craps. Go to wizardofodds.com to see what the house advantage is on different games and variations of games.

[luschen]

I think the question should be "what is the best game with the lowest percentage of losing?"

 

I think Blackjack has a pretty low "losing percentage" and it does make you think. But nothing can really beat craps. Those blackjack players are all by themselves, even at a full table, but the craps table can be a totally party atmosphere where on a winning night you suddenly have 7 or 8 new best friends. And best of all, it gives pretty good odds as long as you avoid those crazy bets on the sides of the table. Sometimes I look over at those glazed eyes "gamblers" mindlessly pressing the button on the slot machines and wonder what the point is.

[F22Smitty]

I think the question should be "what is the best game with the lowest percentage of losing?"

 

but the craps table can be a totally party atmosphere where on a winning night you suddenly have 7 or 8 new best friends.

 

Now that is why craps is the best entertainment in the casino. After a good session, you have best friends the rest of the cruise and everyone wants to know when your going to play again.

[s407o]

I still never understood how anyone can play roulette on a moving ship??? The wheel and ball never stay level so is it really regulated? Probably not

[davecttr]

I still never understood how anyone can play roulette on a moving ship??? The wheel and ball never stay level so is it really regulated? Probably not

This of course means the dealer can't roll the ball to land in a certain set of numbers, if you believe such things happen play when the ship is really moving which makes things even more random than it already is!

[s407o]

hmmm maybe I was looking at it incorrectly and really it improves the odds :p

[davecttr]

hmmm maybe I was looking at it incorrectly and really it improves the odds :p

On one cruise I was having good luck playing 5 straight up numbers derived from my birthday, 0 1 3 5 9. and after a few days was showing a healthy profit. Then the next day it was quiet and just me playing and guess what? no luck whatsoever and the wheel spinning slowly made me suspicious. Now I only play if there is another player so there is a good spread of chips.

 

I like playing blackjack but last cruise after a good first week the second was a disaster. Even the dealer noticed that every time I got a pair of aces and split, he dealt me an ace to five :eek: The laws of probability showing who is boss again :(

 

Blackjack can have a house edge down around 0.5% if you play basic strategy but you still have get the best cards :mad:

 

I also play caribbean stud which I call mindless violence because it mugs me every time and you don't really need to think. On my next cruise there will be 3 card stud which needs even less of a brain to play so I should be OK :rolleyes:

 

ps on british ships we don't have the pleasure of a craps table which is OK by me as I can't understand it anyway :o

[VideoTech]

I still never understood how anyone can play roulette on a moving ship??? The wheel and ball never stay level so is it really regulated? Probably not

 

The spin, roll, and fall of the ball is completely random no matter what. Certainly the ship's motion would have some effect, but these effects would be random as well. And in general the relative motions of the ship are fairly small against the motions of the wheel and ball - unless you're in the middle of a huge storm, in which case I suspect they'd shut the roulette table down.

[BeachyBrowns]

Poker has the best potential odds in the casino, since it is the only game you don't play against the house and,therefore, the only one at which you have any hope of winning money over the long term. You just have to learn to play it well.

[Casino Player]

Poker has the best potential odds in the casino, since it is the only game you don't play against the house and,therefore, the only one at which you have any hope of winning money over the long term. You just have to learn to play it well.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLOOOOO BeachyBrowns: While playing Poker you may not play against the House, you do have The House taking between 5% or more from the top of the pot. Compare the House take against the House take in the other games before deciding what to play.

[chrisc71]

Cruise and long term do not go hand in hand.

 

That said, most of the math of gaming does not apply since no one plays long enough to have them apply to them with accuracy. People have runs of wins and losses and while the math is on the side of the casino you can have winning sessions in gaming. Also poker is not different since you never know what the cards will be nor if your opponent is better than you. You have a false belief that is the only game where you have an advantage and that is not the case. Anytime you risk money you risk losing it.

 

If you are not looking at gaming as entertainment you are looking at it all wrong.

[BeachyBrowns]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLOOOOO BeachyBrowns: While playing Poker you may not play against the House, you do have The House taking between 5% or more from the top of the pot. Compare the House take against the House take in the other games before deciding what to play.

 

The house may take 5% of the money on the table, but poker is the only game where YOU DON'T HAVE TO BEAT THE HOUSE (which the house won't let you do) TO WIN. In blackjack, craps, roulette, slots, Caribbean stud, etc., there are only two possibilities: you win and the house loses, or the house wins and you lose. Those games are set up so that the house will end up with your -- and everyone else's -- money in the long run. In poker, there is another alternative: you win, the house wins, and some other player(s) lose(s). If you are better enough a player than the others at the table, then over time, that is exactly what will happen: you will win money (although not as much as if there were no rake), the house will take the rake, and the other players that can't beat you and/or outrun the rake will lose. You may be right that, if you are not a good poker player, you will fare better (i.e. lose less) by playing roulette than poker, but it is simply false to say that you can make more money over the long run at blackjack, roulette, craps, etc. than at poker, so stop trying.

 

Cruise and long term do not go hand in hand.

 

That said, most of the math of gaming does not apply since no one plays long enough to have them apply to them with accuracy. People have runs of wins and losses and while the math is on the side of the casino you can have winning sessions in gaming. Also poker is not different since you never know what the cards will be nor if your opponent is better than you. You have a false belief that is the only game where you have an advantage and that is not the case. Anytime you risk money you risk losing it.

 

If you are not looking at gaming as entertainment you are looking at it all wrong.

 

The math of gaming ALWAYS applies, no matter how long you are playing, and no matter what the game. There is a closer correlation between the theoretical odds of winning (or losing) and your actual win (or loss) the longer you play, but there is no set sample size below which there is no correlation. The less time you play (say, 7 days on a cruise ship), the more variance comes in, which can mean a departure (up or down) from the theoretical odds, but you are still more likely to gain or lose money at the rate the odds suggest than you are to achieve any other result, no matter how long you play. The same holds true on a cruise ship. If the slot machine pays back 85%, you are more likely to lose about 15% of the money you put into the machine, whether you play 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day, or any other length of time, than you are to get any other single outcome, and the longer you play, the more likely you are to lose that 15% exactly. Sure, you may win a little (or a lot), and you may lose a lot more than that, but the math still rules, and there is nothing you can do to change it, since you are playing against the house, which makes the rules and sets the odds.

 

In poker, after just a few minutes at the table you DO know (or should know, at least roughly) whether or not you are better than or worse than the other players at the table, or at least better than enough of them to expect to profit rather than lose. That is part of the skill of being a good poker player. It is certainly not a "false belief" to know you have an advantage at the poker table if you win consistently. You just have to be honest with yourself about your prospects of winning, and if you don't expect to win, you had better be comfortable with the entertainment value you gain in compensation for your expected monetary loss.

 

Furthermore, the quality of everyone's cards evens out over time, and the better players are the ones that end up with the money. You don't know what the cards will be, of course, but you know you will get your fair share of good cards and bad if you are patient enough to see them; what you do with them, and how you play vis-a-vis the other players, determines your win rate. You do risk losing money, and you will lose it sometimes, but better players win money more often, and they are more likely to win money each individual time they play than worse players are, though the worse players COULD get better cards each individual time and thus produce a variant result.

 

If you make it a habit to play games that involve no skill and at which the house has an advantage, you definitely should think of gambling as entertainment, because it will definitely cost you money. Conversely, poker can be a source of income, and it is very entertaining to win money consistently at it, knowing you are winning not because you are lucky but because you are good at it. That is what I'm saying, and what you two are missing: unlike any game you play against the house, you CAN have an advantage at poker, but not everyone can; you have to play better than the other players at the table to realize your advantage.

 

By the way, if either of you are by chance cruising on the Carnival Dream sailing on 10/22/11, please come play poker with me.:cool:

[chrisc71]

The house may take 5% of the money on the table, but poker is the only game where YOU DON'T HAVE TO BEAT THE HOUSE (which the house won't let you do) TO WIN.

 

You can have a $100 pot but you get $95; most people see that as still losing money. With craps and BJ you can eliminate or lessen to less than 1% the house edge and that is only on losses. And in the case of free odds in craps you get a true payout and the casino keeps nothing.

 

And to the other point; I understand the math always applies but it means nothing in a short time like a cruise. As you yourself wrote there are short term variations, win more/lose more. And that is what most people focus on. Travel Channel had a show on Vegas where they addressed this where two men started with the same money, played all the games and one bet using correct methods and the other just winged it. They came out even. Same goes for a cruise. Someone plays the slots and wins $2000 and does not put it back; that has no correlation to the math.

 

Sorry but poker is just as much a game of luck as skill. Otherwise the same people would be winning the WSOP every year. Being a better player does help but unless you know what cards are being dealt luck is just as much a factor in poker as any other casino game.

 

Poker is not my game but thanks for the invite:)

[Silverscreencruiser]

You can have a $100 pot but you get $95; most people see that as still losing money. With craps and BJ you can eliminate or lessen to less than 1% the house edge and that is only on losses.

 

With craps or BJ, I can lower the odds against me by good play, but they will always be against me. Every single craps roll and every single hand of blackjack, I have less than a 50% chance of winning. If I'm a good player, I can expect to lose 50 cents to a dollar for each hundred dollars I bet. Bet a little and you might win... bet a lot and eventually you won't.

 

With poker, if I am a strong player my chances of winning a hand are greater than 50%. Depending on how strong I am and how weak the opponents are, they can be significantly greater and that can make up the difference. Here's an example.

 

Suppose I'm playing poker against one other player who is as strong as me. In a particular pot, we wind up betting $50 apiece and the house rake is 5%. I have a 50% chance of winning $45 and a 50% chance of losing $50. My expected loss on this hand is $2.50 (5%). That's considerably worse than my expected loss in betting $50 on a hand of blackjack (about 20-35 cents depending on house rules).

 

But now suppose my chances of winning the hand are 53%, i.e., I'm a little stronger than him. Now I have a 53% chance of winning $45 and a 47% chance of losing $50. Now, instead of an expected loss of $2.50, I have an expected win of 35 cents (.7%). That's the same advantage the house has over me in blackjack. And the stronger I am, the more my advantage goes up.

 

To win, you have to be at least 5% stronger than your opponents and be ready to be in this for the long haul. But there are plenty of poker pros out there who consistently make money in legal casinos despite the rake simply by scouting the table carefully and choosing when and when not to play.

[BeachyBrowns]

You can have a $100 pot but you get $95; most people see that as still losing money. With craps and BJ you can eliminate or lessen to less than 1% the house edge and that is only on losses. And in the case of free odds in craps you get a true payout and the casino keeps nothing.

 

And to the other point; I understand the math always applies but it means nothing in a short time like a cruise. As you yourself wrote there are short term variations, win more/lose more. And that is what most people focus on. Travel Channel had a show on Vegas where they addressed this where two men started with the same money, played all the games and one bet using correct methods and the other just winged it. They came out even. Same goes for a cruise. Someone plays the slots and wins $2000 and does not put it back; that has no correlation to the math.

 

Sorry but poker is just as much a game of luck as skill. Otherwise the same people would be winning the WSOP every year. Being a better player does help but unless you know what cards are being dealt luck is just as much a factor in poker as any other casino game.

 

Poker is not my game but thanks for the invite:)

 

Lest you think I'm talking strictly theoretically here, let me say this: I am a consistent winner at poker, and I have been over the past weeks, months, and years. I am also a winner on cruise ships: I have made more money playing poker on cruise ships than I have spent on cruise fares for me and my wife, and if you add her winnings in (she's a good player too), we have more than paid for every expense on every cruise we've been on.

 

Based on the way you look at poker and gambling, it is clear to me that poker is not your game, and you are not of a mind to appreciate the theoretical differences between poker and the games you play. But that's OK. You go on playing the games you like. I'll go on playing the game I like. You will lose money. I will win money. We will both be entertained, so we both win ... but one of us more than the other.

[Casino Player]

Lest you think I'm talking strictly theoretically here, let me say this: I am a consistent winner at poker, and I have been over the past weeks, months, and years. I am also a winner on cruise ships: I have made more money playing poker on cruise ships than I have spent on cruise fares for me and my wife, and if you add her winnings in (she's a good player too), we have more than paid for every expense on every cruise we've been on.

 

Based on the way you look at poker and gambling, it is clear to me that poker is not your game, and you are not of a mind to appreciate the theoretical differences between poker and the games you play. But that's OK. You go on playing the games you like. I'll go on playing the game I like. You will lose money. I will win money. We will both be entertained, so we both win ... but one of us more than the other.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO BeachyBrowns: Like it says on literature passed out by financial companies and I quote, "past performance is no guarantee of future performance." Just because you might win in one session does not mean it would occur again. Any true gambler knows that.

[chrisc71]

With craps or BJ, I can lower the odds against me by good play, but they will always be against me. Every single craps roll and every single hand of blackjack, I have less than a 50% chance of winning. If I'm a good player, I can expect to lose 50 cents to a dollar for each hundred dollars I bet. Bet a little and you might win... bet a lot and eventually you won't.

 

With poker, if I am a strong player my chances of winning a hand are greater than 50%. Depending on how strong I am and how weak the opponents are, they can be significantly greater and that can make up the difference. Here's an example.

 

Suppose I'm playing poker against one other player who is as strong as me. In a particular pot, we wind up betting $50 apiece and the house rake is 5%. I have a 50% chance of winning $45 and a 50% chance of losing $50. My expected loss on this hand is $2.50 (5%). That's considerably worse than my expected loss in betting $50 on a hand of blackjack (about 20-35 cents depending on house rules).

 

But now suppose my chances of winning the hand are 53%, i.e., I'm a little stronger than him. Now I have a 53% chance of winning $45 and a 47% chance of losing $50. Now, instead of an expected loss of $2.50, I have an expected win of 35 cents (.7%). That's the same advantage the house has over me in blackjack. And the stronger I am, the more my advantage goes up.

 

To win, you have to be at least 5% stronger than your opponents and be ready to be in this for the long haul. But there are plenty of poker pros out there who consistently make money in legal casinos despite the rake simply by scouting the table carefully and choosing when and when not to play.

 

 

In poker you will always lose 5% of your money even if you take every pot. Five of every hundred is gone and nothing you can do will change that. And while your play is a factor until you control the cards it is a game of chance like any other in the casino. Your expected loss is 5%. Math does not lie.

 

 

Your percents are off for other games.

 

With craps, and this is from the Wizard of Odds site, house advantage playing pass line and taking odds is 0.374% assuming the ship is giving 3-4-5X odds which is becoming standard. So I can expect with that play to lose about 35 cents of every hundred. Odds are better on land where 5X odds (0.326%) and up are the norm.

 

For BJ it is 0.28% assuming perfect play. Again this is from the Wizard Of Odds site. That works out to 28 cents of every hundred.

 

And there are plenty of people making a living playing craps and BJ it just is not shown on ESPN.:)

[BeachyBrowns]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO BeachyBrowns: Like it says on literature passed out by financial companies and I quote, "past performance is no guarantee of future performance." Just because you might win in one session does not mean it would occur again. Any true gambler knows that.

 

You obviously didn't read my post at all, and since I now think you are a bot that selects words at random to reply to peoples' posts, I have nothing to say to you except "LMAO" and GGGGGGOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDBBBBBBBBBBBYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BeachyBrowns]

In poker you will always lose 5% of your money even if you take every pot. Five of every hundred is gone and nothing you can do will change that. And while your play is a factor until you control the cards it is a game of chance like any other in the casino. Your expected loss is 5%. Math does not lie.

 

 

Your percents are off for other games.

 

With craps, and this is from the Wizard of Odds site, house advantage playing pass line and taking odds is 0.374% assuming the ship is giving 3-4-5X odds which is becoming standard. So I can expect with that play to lose about 35 cents of every hundred. Odds are better on land where 5X odds (0.326%) and up are the norm.

 

For BJ it is 0.28% assuming perfect play. Again this is from the Wizard Of Odds site. That works out to 28 cents of every hundred.

 

And there are plenty of people making a living playing craps and BJ it just is not shown on ESPN.:)

 

To your second point: Indeed, the math does not lie. If I, or a professional craps or BJ player, sit in a casino for hours and days on end and play the game, I WILL lose 35 cents of every $100 I invest, even if I play perfectly. It doesn't matter who I am, or whether I call myself a "professional." You can beat blackjack by counting cards, and that's the only way you can win money in the long run by playing that game. You may be able to break even or minimize the house advantage at craps by betting pass every time and learning how to throw the dice as consistently and predictably as possible. Otherwise, the structure of the game dictates the long-term outcome, and you can't alter the math.

 

Tell me what part of that paragraph you disagree with.

 

Poker is not the same. The house and I can both win at the same time!!!!

 

If I take every pot, you think I would lose money? Let's see. I'll even allow for some losses (shocking!). I buy in for $50 to a poker game. There is a 10% rake up to $5. All the other players at the table have $1000 or more.

Hand 1: I go all-in and get called by one player. The pot is $100, but the house takes $5 (the max), so the pot shrinks to $95. I win the $95 pot. Have I gained or lost money? Right, I have gained $45!

Hand 2: I bet $5 and then fold pre-flop. My stack is now $90.

Hand 3: I go all-in again and get called by two people, creating a $270 pot, but the house rakes $5 (again, the max), making the pot $265. I win the showdown and the $265 pot. Have I lost $5? No! I am now up $215 from where I started!

Hand 4: I bet $15 pre-flop and get called by 3 players, creating a $60 pot, but the house again takes $5 (the max), making the pot $55. I then fold to a bet on the flop. Have I lost $20 ($15 bet plus $5 rake)? NO! I have lost $15 that hand; the person that wins the pot realizes the loss from the rake, but he still gains overall! Have I lost overall? NO! My stack is $250, or $200 more than I started with! Has the house won? YES! It has raked $5 each time I have played a hand! So, is it possible for the house to take money out of every pot and for me to win money nonetheless, even if I don't win every hand? YES!

Your argument would be correct if poker were nothing more than being dealt two cards, betting money every time, and then turning the cards over to find out who wins. In that case, the quality of the cards would even out over time, and everyone would basically end up losing according to the rake percentage. But that is not poker! In poker, you get to choose which hands to play and which players to play against! And that's the point: if you win at blackjack, the house has to pay you your money, which it is extremely unwilling to do over the long term, and you don't get the choice of playing against a worse opponent. But if I win at poker, the money I make comes from the other players at the table, not the house. The house gets to keep some of those guys' money, too, but I get to keep all mine and some of theirs.

 

Now tell me what part of that discussion you disagree with.

 

Oh, please post the names of 5 people who have made a consistent, substantial living (let's say $25,000 per year or more) over the past 5 years playing blackjack and 5 who have done the same playing craps. I can post the names of over a hundred off the top of my head who have made their livings playing poker over the same span. That math doesn't lie, either.

[BeachyBrowns]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO BeachyBrowns: Like it says on literature passed out by financial companies and I quote, "past performance is no guarantee of future performance." Just because you might win in one session does not mean it would occur again. Any true gambler knows that.

 

LMAO again! I just noticed that you had to edit your post to produce that nugget of brilliance! That must mean you had something even more mind-bogglingly buffoonish written down before, and then you revised it to THAT! That is truly special!

[Silverscreencruiser]

In poker you will always lose 5% of your money even if you take every pot. Five of every hundred is gone and nothing you can do will change that. And while your play is a factor until you control the cards it is a game of chance like any other in the casino. Your expected loss is 5%. Math does not lie.

 

 

Your percents are off for other games. For BJ it is 0.28% assuming perfect play.

 

First, you're not going to find rules on a cruise ship that allow you to get to .28% against you. Since the dealer now usually hits a soft 17, playing perfect basic strategy the odds are a bit over .6% against you (if the dealer stands on soft 17, they go down to a bit over .4%). In any event, my generalizations were in the right ballpark.

 

Second, in blackjack, you are playing against the house, always, and the odds are against you every single hand. In poker, you are playing against other players and depending on your skill level, the odds may be in your favor.

 

Suppose Phil Mickelson and I go to the local club for a round of golf. The club charges us each $5 a hole to play. On top of that, we bet each other $100 a hole. According to your theory, the odds against Phil are 5% so he can never win money in the long run. In reality, he will probably win hundreds of dollars from me every single round because his skill level is so much greater than mine. He won't win quite as much as if he didn't have to pay the house fee, but he will still win... a lot.

 

It's the same in poker. If you have enough of a skill advantage over your opponents, you will win, despite the house rake.

[MrCo9]

Every single craps roll and every single hand of blackjack, I have less than a 50% chance of winning.

 

With poker, if I am a strong player my chances of winning a hand are greater than 50%.

I'd LOVE to know how you came up with these numbers. At craps, you lose most bets if the 7 rolls and on average that happens 1 time in 6 rolls. That is 16.667% MUCH less than the 50% you state.

 

At poker, the ONLY time you have a 50% chance of winning a hand (before the cards are dealt) is when you're playing against 1 other person. This usually only happens at the final table of a tournament.