New HAL smoking policy

[HeatherInFlorida]

I want to thank those of you who liked my post about this. It just has to be said. Bunch of darned vigilantes on here no question. I don't usually rant the way I did last night about this; generally I think my posts through ... often edit them a few times before actually posting.

 

But what has been written here is just unforgiveable and it continues unfortunately. Interesting to read sophienfred's post about her horrendous illness yet shortly later it certainly seems it didn't hamper several tours and enjoying her/his cruise. There is no way that the asthma was brought on by smoke coming in through the door from the hall because passengers are not smoking in the corridors of any HAL ship I've ever been on.

 

You get asthma quite easily when you've had bronchitis. If you're going to argue a point about smoking it doesn't help to exaggerate the issue. I've been on several HAL cruises, I do not smoke, am very aware of smoke and I know for a fact that there are relatively few places on HAL ships where one encounters smoke and they are easily avoidable.

 

The only argument that bears consideration here at all is the one about balconies. If you happen to be unfortunately residing in a cabin next to a chain smoker who virtually lives on their balcony, then there definitely could be an issue. But seriously ... how often does that happen?

 

................ The only solution is to continue to complain as often & loudly as possible and hopefully the cruise line will come around & ban smoking on all balconies as did Princess and Celebrity.

 

Sounds like a plan. Continue to complain as loudly as you possibly can and HAL will finally back down. That'll do it. "Squeaky wheel gets the grease" and all that. Just keep in mind it's a very fine line between voicing your feelings clearly and sanely and becoming just a PITA. Once you reach that level you accomplish nothing.

 

And that's sort of what this thread has done. There are tons of reasonable arguments against smoking, but when it gets as vile, ugly and over the top as it did here you begin to lose even your supporters. And that's what happened here.

[gaylecool]

I've just gotten caught up with the pages of judgmental, offensive, nasty, critical, holier than thou posts since my last and I know I should just hit the little red 'x' and exit CC for as long as possible.

 

But I just can't. What is the matter with everyone? I hate the smell of cigarette smoke and become ill when a cigar is within 1/2 mile of me, but that's just too bad for me! I don't understand why people can't just steer clear of a deck left available for smokers. And unless it's a cigar, I think it's a stretch to be so affected by smoke on a nearby balcony. I'm not saying it never happens if you have someone who just smokes continuously, but that simply can't be the case on every single cruise.

 

Smoking is a addiction and it's very hard to stop. There but for the grace of God and acute bronchitis go I. I'm not sure I could have stopped if I hadn't been ill. And it's easy to understand why smokers would get defensive with some of the nasty condescending comments made here on this thread.

 

Give it a rest. If you don't want to have smoking on balconies, cruise on another cruise line. Contrary to what some say, HAL does not hold exclusive rights to the best cruise experience. Don't believe everything you read especially from those who haven't cruised anything but HAL for years. They don't know what they're missing.

 

HAL is trying to accommodate everyone with their new policy. It might not fit your needs exclusively, but you can't please everyone all the time. So if it's not good enough, move on. There are a lot of choices out there. But get off the backs of the smokers in this forum. They have a habit they either can't break or for some reason don't want to break ... doesn't make them 2nd class citizens, doesn't make them uneducated or poor. Young people still take up smoking in droves so it's not just old people who didn't know any better when they started.

 

They smoke. They didn't kill anyone or rob a bank. Some very good friends of mine smoke and some are right here on this forum. So give it a rest and let up on your fellow man for heaven's sake. It's a tough world out there and there's lots more to worry about than whether a wisp of smoke might make its way past you on your balcony.

 

Sorry for the rant, but this is just crazy ... and just plain mean. We're better than that ... at least I hope we are.

 

 

Well done Heather!!! Finally a voice of reason.

[CMYK_iNK]

This is the best news I've heard all year! Fantastic!

 

The only thing I wish is it could have been implemented before our honeymoon cruise this September :(

[Assateague Island Princes]

Heather - you are my hero!:D Thanx for cutting thru the bull and stating what many of us were thinking, but didn't articulate. Appreciate it.

[Cruising-along]

 

The only argument that bears consideration here at all is the one about balconies. If you happen to be unfortunately residing in a cabin next to a chain smoker who virtually lives on their balcony, then there definitely could be an issue. But seriously ... how often does that happen?

 

Heather as you already know I love your posts, always have. You are the voice of reason and always are spot-on! :)

 

I chose the above section of your post to quote because it home for me. We don't often book balconies, and luckily for us when we have had a balcony we have never been bothered by smoke from our neighbors. Just luck. But unfortunately my sister and her husband weren't so lucky on their one and only HAL cruise. They had a chain-smoking neighbor and couldn't enjoy their balcony the way we could. They had paid a lot of money for that cruise, it was a Med cruise and I felt so bad for them. I don't know if they'll book another balcony on a HAL cruise in the future after that experience. And I felt bad too because I encouraged them to sail on HAL. :(

 

We will be sailing again with them, but on Celebrity next time. And we will have balconies again, but with no worries of whether or not we'll be able to use them whenever we wish.

 

I really don't care if people smoke anywhere else on the ship, I can easily avoid those areas. I just wish there was a good compromise for smokers and non-smokers re the balcony situation.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Carolyn, I loooooooove, love, love Celebrity:):):). You'll be happy ... I almost guarantee it. Have a wonderful time.

 

One other thing about balconies. Sometimes you just can't go out there. Sometimes it rains. We were on Prinsendam once and we couldn't go out there at all because the wind was so horrendous. So lots of things can mess with our cruise experience. We're on a ship with a ton of people, we could get Noro, get run over by a wheelchair ... (kidding, but you never know;)).

 

Stuff happens. And having a chain smoker next to you would definitely be a bummer, but it truly is just one of those things.

 

Maybe I've just been around too long, but I honestly don't get bothered by what I really do consider the small stuff. Live and let live. I gave up smoking and I'm so happy I did. I gave up drinking and thank God every day for getting me through that. So I just think some cruises are better than others and unfortunately, unless we rent a private island in the middle of nowhere, there's going to be something that might make our cruise not quite perfect.

 

But pretty darned close:).

[Himself]

If I were a smoker, I would be furious. However, I have not had a cigarette in 19 years

and so I am somewhat happy. However, if I had a varanda I would not be too happy as I would not want to be breathing in second hand smoke.

[Cruising-along]

Carolyn, I loooooooove, love, love Celebrity:):). You'll be happy ... I almost guarantee it. Have a wonderful time.

 

I know how much you love Celebrity, and I expect we'll probably feel the same way.

 

One other thing about balconies. Sometimes you just can't go out there. Sometimes it rains. We were on Prinsendam once and we couldn't go out there at all because the wind was so horrendous. So lots of things can mess with our cruise experience. We're on a ship with a ton of people, we could get Noro, get run over by a wheelchair ... (kidding, but you never know;)).

 

Stuff happens. And having a chain smoker next to you would definitely be a bummer, but it truly is just one of those things.

 

Maybe I've just been around too long, but I honestly don't get bothered by what I really do consider the small stuff. Live and let live. I gave up smoking and I'm so happy I did. I gave up drinking and thank God every day for getting me through that. So I just think some cruises are better than others and unfortunately, unless we rent a private island in the middle of nowhere, there's going to be something that might make our cruise not quite perfect.

 

But pretty darned close:).

 

Now there you go again, being the voice of reason :p

Seriously, I do agree. As I said, it was my sister and BIL who were unhappy about the smoke (they loved the rest of the HAL experience though). I have a feeling DH and I would be more like you (I hope) and live and let live. Guess I won't know unless it happens to me, but I'm hoping it doesn't. :D

[sophienfred]

We were on the cruise with you and I am sorry you had to suffer being ill like that. My daughter at the age of 3 had a similar experience during a vacation to Disney. We stayed in a timeshare condo where someone had smoked previously. From that lingering smoke odor she became increasingly ill the week we stayed there. Since I have asthma I finally resorted to letting her use my inhaler. Since then she has been on singular and inhalers and cannot tolerate cigarette smoke. My son and I also had a balcony VA just under the aft pool area. Fortunately no one smoked near us the entire cruise and I could use the balcony every day. So sorry you had to deal with bronchitis - not fun I know. I used to get it all the time but for me advair has been a "wonder drug"

Diane

Thanks Diane for your post.

I'm sorry I didn't ever get to meet you at either of the M&Gs ... mind you I wouldn't have remembered anyone at the first one :-) I was sorry to hear about your missing suitcases! That must have been awful.

The 2nd part of our cruise was wonderful as to the tours and amazing sights we saw. So far away from NZ and so very very different. Oh the history!! Of course we have none at all ... so are gobmsacked at every little plinth and ancient cobblestone. :-)

 

I'm glad that you could use your balcony and I hope you had a wonderful holiday with your son.

[Sea King]

 

The only argument that bears consideration here at all is the one about balconies. If you happen to be unfortunately residing in a cabin next to a chain smoker who virtually lives on their balcony, then there definitely could be an issue. But seriously ... how often does that happen?

 

 

IMHO, easy to lecture .. another thing entirely when you just happen to the "1" next to the chain smoker on a balcony and you lose the enjoyment of an important part of your vacation:mad:

 

HAL made an error IMO .. numbers are numbers .. because it's all about the $$ in the first place:eek:

 

hopefully, HAL will do a quick reversal and include the verandas

 

that will still leave smokers places on decks, the casino and crow's nest on S Class and other places on Vista

 

like it or not .. smoking is irritating .. period

[gaylecool]

IMHO, easy to lecture .. another thing entirely when you just happen to the "1" next to the chain smoker on a balcony and you lose the enjoyment of an important part of your vacation:mad:

 

HAL made an error IMO .. numbers are numbers .. because it's all about the $$ in the first place:eek:

 

hopefully, HAL will do a quick reversal and include the verandas

 

that will still leave smokers places on decks, the casino and crow's nest on S Class and other places on Vista

 

like it or not .. smoking is irritating .. period

 

 

I recently returned from a cruise on the Westerdam, and when I asked several different crew members about places to smoke, I was told the only place where you could smoke, aside from your Verandah, was the aft Lido deck, or certain spots on the Promenade deck. I never saw anyone smoking inside the ship whatsoever. Also, I spent most of my time on my Verandah and though I saw people smoking on theirs, I couldn't smell it. My point is that rules may say one thing, but my experience was that the ship actually runs pretty darned close to being a non-smoking ship.

 

So really, how bad can it be? I completely agree with the no smoking in cabins, but outside, seems a bit absurd to try and control that in any way. Just my opinion.

[amster65]

Had my first balcony on the Zuiderdam this year. Although we were all the way forward, I cant understand with all the wind blowing out there, that you can smell cigarette smoke. Even in port there is usually a breeze, specialy in the caribean. Since there is always a lot of talk on the boards about this subject, I always looked over the railing down to other cabins and never detected a hint of smoke, even in port. We went frequently to the Seaview bar, and even there most of the smoke is disappated by the wind. Anyway I dont mind a wiff of smoke, reminds me of the the old days in the Navy when cigarette's where 10 cents a pack. Haven't smoked in twenty years, but still, when I smell it, well a slight urge. very slight. :rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

I recently returned from a cruise on the Westerdam, and when I asked several different crew members about places to smoke, I was told the only place where you could smoke, aside from your Verandah, was the aft Lido deck, or certain spots on the Promenade deck. I never saw anyone smoking inside the ship whatsoever. Also, I spent most of my time on my Verandah and though I saw people smoking on theirs, I couldn't smell it. My point is that rules may say one thing, but my experience was that the ship actually runs pretty darned close to being a non-smoking ship.

 

So really, how bad can it be? I completely agree with the no smoking in cabins, but outside, seems a bit absurd to try and control that in any way. Just my opinion.

 

You spent a week on Westerdam and never discovered you could smoke in Casino and Sports Bar? :eek: It's always a grey fog in that area. You can smell you're getting close from many steps away.

[HeatherInFlorida]

IMHO, easy to lecture .. another thing entirely when you just happen to the "1" next to the chain smoker on a balcony and you lose the enjoyment of an important part of your vacation:mad:

 

HAL made an error IMO .. numbers are numbers .. because it's all about the $$ in the first place:eek:

 

hopefully, HAL will do a quick reversal and include the verandas

 

that will still leave smokers places on decks, the casino and crow's nest on S Class and other places on Vista

 

like it or not .. smoking is irritating .. period

 

It's also very easy to lift one sentence from all the posts I've made on this thread and target that alone.

 

I'm a non-smoker and have been for about 40 years. I hate the smell of cigarette smoke and get physically ill from cigar smoke ... not too nutty about DH's pipe smoke, either, so he does that outside.

 

So having cruised for almost 30 years I think I have a pretty good idea of how much smoke there is on any given ship both inside and out. I steer clear of the casino and any deck designated for smokers. But that leaves a lot of room for me and very little for them.

 

Smoke is irratating to those of us who don't smoke ... no question. Not to mention it's dangerous to those who smoke. But we live in a world of choice and free will and I respect the rights of those who choose to smoke and I believe they have a right to a small area in public places to do that.

 

And no matter what anyone might feel about smokers, it doesn't give them the right to go after smokers as was done on this thread ... in a nasty, degrading, obnoxious way that they never would do in person (I hope).

 

One day I'm sure you're right and HAL will change their policy to include balconies, but in the meantime there are choices out there and everyone can decide for themselves which cruise line they want to cruise. No one should expect that just because they've cruised exclusively on HAL for many years that they will always get their way about policies HAL makes ... and that works both ways incidently.

[gaylecool]

You spent a week on Westerdam and never discovered you could smoke in Casino and Sports Bar? :eek: It's always a grey fog in that area. You can smell you're getting close from many steps away.

 

 

I was in both the Casino and Sports Bar, several times, and there was no one smoking, any of the times. No ashtrays were out either. Maybe that was just the luck of the draw on the cruise I was on, nonetheless, it left an impression of a very non-smoking environment inside the ship.

[1 HappyCruiser]

IMHO, easy to lecture .. another thing entirely when you just happen to the "1" next to the chain smoker on a balcony and you lose the enjoyment of an important part of your vacation:mad:

 

HAL made an error IMO .. numbers are numbers .. because it's all about the $$ in the first place:eek:

 

hopefully, HAL will do a quick reversal and include the verandas

 

that will still leave smokers places on decks, the casino and crow's nest on S Class and other places on Vista

 

like it or not .. smoking is irritating .. period

 

I'm with your thinking on the subject. You're being denied the use of your balcony because an uncaring person has decided they have the rights to do as they please. It could be playing loud music or partying all night on the balcony making all sorts of noise. How many people would stand for that? They'd be calling the customer service desk in a flash. Any individual who causes others to lose some of their use of the ship deserves all the criticize they receive.

[peaches from georgia]

I'm with your thinking on the subject. You're being denied the use of your balcony because an uncaring person has decided they have the rights to do as they please. It could be playing loud music or partying all night on the balcony making all sorts of noise. How many people would stand for that? They'd be calling the customer service desk in a flash. Any individual who causes others to use the use of the ship deserves all the criticize they receive.

 

Not denying that someone smoking on their balcony may be uncaring IF they know the smoke is bothering their neighbors yet they continue to smoke, but smokers have been given the right to smoke on their balcony by HAL, so it is not exactly a right they have taken on their own without permission by the cruiseline. Smokers don't deserve any criticism for smoking on their balcony other than that it would have been polite to ask if it was a problem to their neighbor.

[elycelynne]

You spent a week on Westerdam and never discovered you could smoke in Casino and Sports Bar? :eek: It's always a grey fog in that area. You can smell you're getting close from many steps away.

 

No kidding -- I always tried to hold my breath and walk as fast as I could whenever I had to pass through on my way to either the theater or the piano bar!

[1 HappyCruiser]

Not denying that someone smoking on their balcony may be uncaring IF they know the smoke is bothering their neighbors yet they continue to smoke, but smokers have been given the right to smoke on their balcony by HAL, so it is not exactly a right they have taken on their own without permission by the cruiseline. Smokers don't deserve any criticism for smoking on their balcony other than that it would have been polite to ask if it was a problem to their neighbor.

 

It's true that they have permission to smoke on the balconies but they still deserve all the criticism they receive for doing so. Just because the cruise line allows them to smoke doesn't mean that their justified in causing discomfort to so many of their neighbors in the process.

[Oceanwench]

It's true that they have permission to smoke on the balconies but they still deserve all the criticism they receive for doing so. Just because the cruise line allows them to smoke doesn't mean that their justified in causing discomfort to so many of their neighbors in the process.

 

I guess I'm not getting the "deserve criticism" part.

They deserve criticism for going along with HAL's policy on smoking? If you want to hurl criticism, then direct it toward HAL, who has made a policy you can't tolerate.

 

I think I remember a similar argument about jeans in the dining room! :rolleyes:

 

I'm not a smoker, I don't like smoke.

The only time I've been bothered by smoke on a HAL cruise has been in the casino, when someone with a cigarette sits near me. Oh, and in the Sports Bar too, where all the officers seem to gather to light up!

 

Never in a dozen cruises have I had smoke bother me on a balcony.

And the only smoke I've smelled in the hallways came from those funny cigarettes. ;)

[Jalex63]

Passenger "A" books a HAL Balcony stateroom because he smokes.

 

Passenger "B" books a HAL Balcony stateroom knowing that HAL allows passengers to smoke there and then commences to bitch about the smoke.

 

Virtually everyone on this board knows the existing HAL rules about smoking. If you don't smoke and can't stand to be around it then book a different cruise line than HAL. Quit trying to enforce YOUR STANDARDS on other people!:mad:

[NetwrkEng]

This thread sure was good for a laugh. We just got off Oosterdam on Sunday and I'm pretty sure I smelled smoke on our balcony on the stern from that woman smoking on her balcony on deck 8 near the forward elevators while we were underway at 20+ knots. ;)

[1 HappyCruiser]

I guess I'm not getting the "deserve criticism" part.

They deserve criticism for going along with HAL's policy on smoking? If you want to hurl criticism, then direct it toward HAL, who has made a policy you can't tolerate.

 

I think I remember a similar argument about jeans in the dining room! :rolleyes:

 

I'm not a smoker, I don't like smoke.

The only time I've been bothered by smoke on a HAL cruise has been in the casino, when someone with a cigarette sits near me. Oh, and in the Sports Bar too, where all the officers seem to gather to light up!

 

Never in a dozen cruises have I had smoke bother me on a balcony.

And the only smoke I've smelled in the hallways came from those funny cigarettes. ;)

 

Yes HAL deserves criticism also and I'm positive they'll be getting more than their share as soon as more & more smokers migrate to HAL because of their lenient smoking policy.

Passenger "A" books a HAL Balcony stateroom because he smokes.

 

Passenger "B" books a HAL Balcony stateroom knowing that HAL allows passengers to smoke there and then commences to bitch about the smoke.

 

Virtually everyone on this board knows the existing HAL rules about smoking. If you don't smoke and can't stand to be around it then book a different cruise line than HAL. Quit trying to enforce YOUR STANDARDS on other people!:mad:

 

How else can people get the cruise line to change policy for the better unless it's given in the form of criticism? Perhaps we should just leave it as it is & let the non smokers continue to suffer. Maybe we can start a poll to bring back the smoking in the show lounge & dining rooms? :rolleyes: They're not my standards alone but that of the majority of cruisers on the ships. If the smokers were in the majority then you would have a point but since your a smoker & don't want to be inconvenienced by being put out, your argument doesn't hold much water. .

This thread sure was good for a laugh. We just got off Oosterdam on Sunday and I'm pretty sure I smelled smoke on our balcony on the stern from that woman smoking on her balcony on deck 8 near the forward elevators while we were underway at 20+ knots. ;)

 

I know I can.

[jimmy2x]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetwrkEng

This thread sure was good for a laugh. We just got off Oosterdam on Sunday and I'm pretty sure I smelled smoke on our balcony on the stern from that woman smoking on her balcony on deck 8 near the forward elevators while we were underway at 20+ knots. ;)

 

I know I can.

 

Really? Almost too funny for words. Whatever credibility you may have had here is disappearing faster than a puff of smoke.

[1 HappyCruiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetwrkEng

This thread sure was good for a laugh. We just got off Oosterdam on Sunday and I'm pretty sure I smelled smoke on our balcony on the stern from that woman smoking on her balcony on deck 8 near the forward elevators while we were underway at 20+ knots. ;)

 

I know I can.

 

Really? Almost too funny for words. Whatever credibility you may have had here is disappearing faster than a puff of smoke.

 

I'm not looking for creditability, only a smoke free balcony and unfortunately the smoke doesn't disappear all that quickly even with a 20 knot wind.