Bending the Rules - Not Fair to Others

[BORDER REIVER]

We sailed on Queen Victoria in 2009 and on Aurora last year. Both ships uphold the tradition of dressing for dinner and observing a certain dress code in the evening. What we noticed on both ships was that a small number of passengers were always trying to bend the rules, not just with regard to dress codes, but in other areas as well - such as trying to smoke in no-smoking areas, jumping into swimming pools, filming stage productions with camera / mobile phones.

I don’t particularly like dressing up. I certainly don’t like wearing a tie or cufflinks, but the way we see it is that when we embark on a cruise, we are on board as paying guests and as such, should be prepared to dress and behave in whatever way the cruise company ask of us.

All passengers receive comprehensive cruise and ship information and most have internet access, so it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone if they are turned away from the MDR on a formal evening for not wearing a jacket or tie.

I can understand new cruisers needing some good advice - we certainly did. I only had a black suit for formal evenings on QV and realised that it needed a bit more effort, so bought a dinner suit to wear on Aurora. I still felt hot and uncomfortable, but my girlfriend said I looked great - which is exactly what P&O are trying to do - make their passengers look and feel good, to create a certain ambience. My girlfriend splashed out on a black evening gown and she looked a million dollars.

This is never going to be effective if passengers read the cruise info, then decide that they don’t have a black suit, aren't prepared to buy one and will try and get away with a brown one, or if they hope to get away with wearing tatty jeans in the MDR on a smart casual evening.

Last December, we booked on the Northern Belle train (part of Simplon Orient Express group) for a “Black Tie Dinner”. I read a lot about what a Black Tie event was and found out that is in effect, a uniform that all gents should adhere to, yet there were gents with jeans on, brown suits, multi coloured ties, brown shoes, trainers.. Some of the girls were dressed as though they were going to a nightclub.

Is it asking too much that all passengers read the information before cruising and actually bother to come prepared to fit in with everyone else? Surely it’s only good manners and makes it more enjoyable for other passengers.

There are plenty of cruise ships out there who aren't bothered how passengers dress or behave, so why choose to sail with a cruise line like P& O if you don't like their dress codes or rules.

[Catherine Janaway]

I'm a 'rules are rules' kinda gal so I'm already converted!

[annieuk]

On our cruise on Azura this year we saw several men turned away from the main dining room on a semi-formal evening as they were not wearing jackets. A couple went to put one on while their friends waiter but one man started arguing with the Officer (there was an Officer at the doors on both formal and semi-formal evenings) but he didn't get anywhere and eventually stormed off.

 

I agree, if you don't like the dress code, choose a different ship. I wonder if part of the problem is that some people do not even look at a brochure or even the cruiseline website and don't even think about a dress code. They book online or as a result of an advert and don't research things enough. I know I've seen questions on cruising sites which say something like "I'm booked to go on Aurora (or other P&O ship) can anyone tell me about the dress code?" I would never book any sort of holiday without knowing what I was booking.

 

:)

[silver service]

now then,i think that there are a very few people, who certainly have an attitude. its a problem for them, and the unfortunate people around them.

basicly, no way are they going to be told what to do.ANYWHERE!!

they are only too well aware of the dress codes on the night,its in

the horizon, clearly every day. for some reason i can not understand

they think, i am not going to do it. as said, being trussed up in a

dress suit, and a tight collar with bow tie, is not very comfotable.

but the vast majority of us, do do it. its all part of the occasion

this isint going to go away. it will continue ad finitum.:confused:

[uniman]

Hi this problem is only going to get worse, with people who have never worn a suit never mind a DJ. It is part of the modern generation thing, although most often it is the middle age passenger who will scream and shout. The only hope is that the rules will continue to be enforced and not slip away.

[BORDER REIVER]

Silver Service has possibly hit the nail on the head - it could very well be down to attitude and there's a lot of attitude around these days. When I was young, if my parents asked me to do anything, I would do it without question. These days, you hear even very young children tell their parents "no, why should I, I'm not going to!" and this kind of attitude, if allowed to continue, will be there throughout their lives.

I generally find that dress codes were pretty well adhered to on Aurora, although the worst problem with ignoring rules was in the theatre, where every show had dozens of camera/mobile phone screens lit up between us and the stage. Apart from any performing rights issues, it makes it very difficult to see the show. Can people honestly not hear the request to switch off all recording devices / phones?

[GOCRUISE99]

My husband and myself a few years ago booked ocean village simply because we did not fancy the dressing up on other cruise lines, and continued to do this until they ceased in the U.K.

Feeling the need to carry on cruising we decided to try P&O and bought the attire suitable to comply with the dress code, much to our amazement we thoroughly enjoyed the experience and have never looked back, with each cruise we look forward to donning our finery and feeling special on formal nights.

I wish that people would just book, comply and try, if you don't like it don't do it again.

There are no excuses for not following dress codes as the right clothing is available for very little money, My own opinion is if you can afford the cruise you can afford the clothes.

[Benjamin1981]

Hi,

 

I wonder if any of the poster on this thread have asked people they are next to using phones to switch them off, or in fact spoken to people on board, that are not complying with certain dress codes and asked why?

 

Have you thought, that perhaps the people "dressed like they are on their way to a nightclub" think that they look presentable and are happy. It seems a strange thing to be offended by to me?!

 

I'm going on my first cruise in a couple of months and I do hope that I am not judged to much, for wearing a dark suit, or whatever is applicable and more importantly that I am comfortable in.

 

It is after all everyones holiday - and us much as I agree people should be considerate, respect does work both ways.

 

Hope this is read in the constructive manner in which its meant.

 

All the best,

 

Ben

[BORDER REIVER]

Hi,

 

I wonder if any of the poster on this thread have asked people they are next to using phones to switch them off, or in fact spoken to people on board, that are not complying with certain dress codes and asked why?

 

Have you thought, that perhaps the people "dressed like they are on their way to a nightclub" think that they look presentable and are happy. It seems a strange thing to be offended by to me?!

 

I'm going on my first cruise in a couple of months and I do hope that I am not judged to much, for wearing a dark suit, or whatever is applicable and more importantly that I am comfortable in.

 

It is after all everyones holiday - and us much as I agree people should be considerate, respect does work both ways.

 

Hope this is read in the constructive manner in which its meant.

 

All the best,

 

Ben

 

You've made some good points there, however on the point of a "Black Tie" dinner - Google it like I had to do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_tie and you will see what is required. I didn't know exactly what it meant, but had a rough idea, so I found the information and out of respect to the organisers of the event, I dressed accordingly. I think that some people cannot be bothered to find out what is expected of them, even though on cruises, the information is sent to them well in advance. I'm sure you will be fine in a dark suit, I was certainly happy enough on my first cruise, but I realised my dark suit was one of only a few in the MDR and the only one our table of 8, so I bought a tux, a few dress shirts and bow ties for the next cruise, on Aurora - they don't have to cost the earth.

We believe that even though we are on holiday and we are paying for it, if our hosts (P&O) go to the bother of sending us information on how they would like us to behave and dress, then out of respect for them, we will do our very best to honour those requests.

As regards policing the cruise lines rules, that's down to the staff, not fellow passengers..and it's a lack of enforcement that irritates some passengers.

 

Enjoy your cruise, you'll be OK with a dark suit, it's normally fine for a formal dinner, although a lot of cruisers seem to go the whole way, with cummerbunds, medals or highland dress.

[Benjamin1981]

Thanks for your post.

 

I go to a fair few black tie events, which I have to attend with work, so I'll be in a more relaxed, black suit, dress shirt, and bow or straight black tie for this cruise and then appropriate smart casual, which generally always means a suit and shirt with no tie, as I think its difficult for men to do smart casual.

 

I think it's the responsibility of all (as long as you don't put yourself at risk) to discourage the anti-social behaviour you mention, but I know a lot of people aren't comfortable with it.

 

Thanks for your reply and enjoy your next cruise and thanks for the tips! Any idea on dress code for breakfast?

[BORDER REIVER]

 

Any idea on dress code for breakfast?

 

As I said, I don't really enjoy dressing up with tight collar etc, so I do enjoy my breakfast. Dress code for me is something loose and expandible:D...so much choice of food:D.

Breakfast was the only area where QV beat Aurora - the waiters just kept coming back with more temptations & even poured the milk onto our cereal - one breakfast lasted 1.5 hours.

[kevinyork]

Thanks for your post.

 

I go to a fair few black tie events, which I have to attend with work, so I'll be in a more relaxed, black suit, dress shirt, and bow or straight black tie for this cruise and then appropriate smart casual, which generally always means a suit and shirt with no tie, as I think its difficult for men to do smart casual.

 

I think it's the responsibility of all (as long as you don't put yourself at risk) to discourage the anti-social behaviour you mention, but I know a lot of people aren't comfortable with it.

 

Thanks for your reply and enjoy your next cruise and thanks for the tips! Any idea on dress code for breakfast?

 

 

Benjamin, your attire sounds fine. Certainly way better than some we have seen. I know some men feel a little out of it if 99 percent of men wear a Tux and they wear a suit on formal nights but Its your choice and certainly within the guidelines. Enjoy your first cruise.

[Benjamin1981]

Border - Breakfast sounds great. Can't wait! Leisurely breakfasts are what its all about for me.

 

Kevin - thanks for the message. I'm sure we'll love our cruise, so will keep you posted. Watch out for the review!!

 

Ben

[amajaa]

I also think people should stick to the dress code but unfortunately it isn't a legal requirement and I suppose there is not much we can do if they don't. On Ventura last week only about 80% or less (ladies I'm talking about here) stuck to the black and white night theme. Which was such a shame, I'm sure some deliberately wore the brightest colour they could find, reds, really bright blues etc.

 

On the other hand smoking in the wrong place and video recording is a legal requirement and I think the offenders should be reported to the appropriate person (whoever that is) on board.

[sesh]

.

I don’t particularly like dressing up. I certainly don’t like wearing a tie or cufflinks, but the way we see it is that when we embark on a cruise, we are on board as paying guests and as such, should be prepared to dress and behave in whatever way the cruise company ask of us.

 

I still felt hot and uncomfortable, but my girlfriend said I looked great - which is exactly what P&O are trying to do - make their passengers look and feel good, to create a certain ambience. My girlfriend splashed out on a black evening gown and she looked a million dollars.

 

 

Sorry but you have contradicted yourself in one paragraph and you fail to understand that you are a paying customer (not a guest).

 

Also if someone wears a brown dinner suit rather than black what is the problem (if they have made the effort).

[Britchic4]

Black and white night isn't a dress code though, it's a theme night and people are no more required to wear black or white than they are to wear Hawaiian skirts on tropical night. There is also no mention of black and white night in your booking information. We knew about it on our first cruise from others but my MIL for example on their first cruise had no idea it would be on and as she doesn't wear either colour she had no suitable clothes.

 

I also think people should stick to the dress code but unfortunately it isn't a legal requirement and I suppose there is not much we can do if they don't. On Ventura last week only about 80% or less (ladies I'm talking about here) stuck to the black and white night theme. Which was such a shame, I'm sure some deliberately wore the brightest colour they could find, reds, really bright blues etc.

 

On the other hand smoking in the wrong place and video recording is a legal requirement and I think the offenders should be reported to the appropriate person (whoever that is) on board.

[berkshireboy]

On formal nights on Fred Olsen there is free champagne with breakfast. That is the kind of breakfast I like - start the day as you mean to continue!:)

[wales4ever]

Its just the way society has become these days.

 

Some saddos just don't like and refuse to be told or asked to do anything.

 

Just spoilt by their parents and spoilt by life in general.

[Benjamin1981]

I think people are being a little harsh, just because a guy doesn't wear a tux or a lady decides to wear a different colour dress, it certainly does not make them sad or spoilt.

 

I just hope that the comments on this thread do not reflect the nature of people that will be on the cruise I am going on.

[Catherine Janaway]

I think people are being a little harsh, just because a guy doesn't wear a tux or a lady decides to wear a different colour dress, it certainly does not make them sad or spoilt.

 

I just hope that the comments on this thread do not reflect the nature of people that will be on the cruise I am going on.

 

I'm not sure that is what people are saying.

 

The point is that the formal/semi formal nights are very much part of a cruise and being aware of these nights people should pack the appropriate clothes and confirm to the standards required.

 

If not they should dine in the buffets and not use the bars on those nights.

 

There are some people who take the cruises and decide to argue about the dress code rather than conform, it amazes me why people who don't like dressing up go on a cruise where this is expected. :rolleyes:

 

I do think that some people believe that as they pay 'good money' for a cruise they should be able to wear what they like having no consideration at all to others who like the formality of this type of cruise and expect the same from other guests.

 

If you don't like it I'm sure there are plenty of other cruises that offer a far more informal cruising style.

[Benjamin1981]

I think, if you re read the post directly above my last post, thats exactly what people are saying.

 

 

 

"Its just the way society has become these days.

 

Some saddos just don't like and refuse to be told or asked to do anything.

 

Just spoilt by their parents and spoilt by life in general"

Last edited by SouthWalesCruiser; Today at 04:08 PM. Reason: .

 

Also, I have indicated, throughout this thread, that if people are conforming to the rules in place i.e wearing a lounge suit, then I don't think they should be attacked or deemed sad or not in the right place.

[Benjamin1981]

Anyway Catherine, hope the above clarified what I meant.

 

Looks like we'll be on the same cruise. Very excited, are you??

[Beckyfaye-2008]

Sorry but you have contradicted yourself in one paragraph and you fail to understand that you are a paying customer (not a guest).

 

Also if someone wears a brown dinner suit rather than black what is the problem (if they have made the effort).

 

For me it all about the ambiance of the ship.

If I book a cruise say with P&O and it advertises 4 Black Tie evenings, and it states in the brochure and I quote " Black Tie Nights foster a rather special atmosphere on board, adding a touch of glamour, and a real sense of occasion to evenings at sea. Seeing an entire ship full of people transformed in their finery is quite something to behold". That is what I would expect to find.

However when Black Tie night arrives, I find the majority of people had in fact adopted the attitude, of I am going to ignore what it says in the brochure. Do you not think I would have cause to complain, due to the fact P&O had not provided the evening they advertised.

People who ignore the dress code do so at the expense of others, they know the dress code before they part with their money and can have no complaint, if they are denied access to certain venues, because they chose to ignore what it says in the brochure.

I am sure if on a casual night, the people who insist on wearing casual on a formal night, would not be very happy if everybody else turned up in formal dress.

The good thing about cruising is there are different dress codes for different nights, so over the length of the cruise their are evenings to suit everybody, why should the few be allowed to spoil it for the many.

It matters not if you are a paying customer, the people running the event can still decide the terms and conditions.

 

Just in case anybody is not sure, I saw this posted on another forum a couple of days ago.

 

P&O dress code names....

 

Just back from Aurora and the new dress codes are now on the daily Horizon but a few folk were still confused.

 

Formal is now Black Tie

Semi Formal is now Smart, jacket required

Smart Casual is now Casual

 

there is a new picture to go with each dress code( same as in the brochure) and its on an A4 display outside the restaurants and bars ( except the self serve and pub style bar)

 

its to make it clearer for those who didn't ( or wouldn't ) understand it before .. so they say.:);):D

[Benjamin1981]

Black tie

All ships

For a typical two week cruise there are normally four black tie evenings on board. However, when it is very hot, the number may be reduced.

Black tie nights on board are an opportunity for ladies to wear glamorous evening wear including cocktail dresses, ballgown or even a smart trouser suit. For men, a dinner jacket or tuxedo are the norm, but a dark lounge or business suit and tie can be worn as an alternative. You can also wear formal national dress. Attire for Black tie nights can be purchased on board.

 

Appropriate attire is essential for entry to the ship's bars and restaurants.

 

All I am trying to say, which I think is quite fair, that if someone chooses to wear a permitted alternative, then they should not be judged for doing so. It is also their holiday, and people do have a right to be comfortable!

 

I think its slightly naive to expect the brochure description to run though, throughout the whole trip as reading the reviews and comments on here, its obviously not the case.

 

Thanks,

 

Ben

[LibraLass41]

I also think people should stick to the dress code but unfortunately it isn't a legal requirement and I suppose there is not much we can do if they don't. On Ventura last week only about 80% or less (ladies I'm talking about here) stuck to the black and white night theme. Which was such a shame, I'm sure some deliberately wore the brightest colour they could find, reds, really bright blues etc.

 

.

 

I've noticed a few women wearing bright colours too on black and white night, and can only assume they are attention seekers...as they certainly do get a lot of attention for all the other ladies onboard that have made the effort!:rolleyes: