News: Another Major Line to Restrict Onboard Smoking

[DizzyDallasDi]

Studies have shown that the second hand smoke is even more dangerous than first hand.

 

Please provide a link to these alleged "studies." There's no way second hand smoke can be "more dangerous" than first hand.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I think you'll find the number of drunk driving fatalities far exceeds the number of second-hand smoke deaths, not to mention violent homicides perpetrated by drunks.

 

Even on a cruise ship where it's likely you won't be involved in a drunk driving accident, there's still a chance some drunk might do something stupid like drop the anchor while the ship is moving.

 

On the other hand, second hand smoke on a cruiseship is definitely minimized by constraining it to certain indoor areas with strong ventilation and to outside areas where the wind takes care of things. Just because you smell the odor of smoke doesn't mean you're inhaling smoke.

 

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. You can't smell it unless it's in the air. If it's in the air, you're going to inhale it. Maybe not much, but some. I'm talking about freshly generated smoke. I have no idea what chemicals you're inhaling when you're in an area where heavy smoking has left the ashtray smell, like the casino.

[Bearnaise]

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. You can't smell it unless it's in the air. If it's in the air, you're going to inhale it. Maybe not much, but some. I'm talking about freshly generated smoke. I have no idea what chemicals you're inhaling when you're in an area where heavy smoking has left the ashtray smell, like the casino.

What affects the nose (smell) doesn't necessarily impact the lungs. Freshly generated smoke dissipates quickly in areas with strong ventilation or outside so you'd have to be sitting pretty close or confined together in a small room to be impacted. On a cruise, unless you're sharing a cabin with a smoker or sitting at the casino table with one, the amount of second-hand smoke will be negligible.

[sail7seas]

The above comment might (sometimes) apply to a moving ship. When the ship is at dock and smokers are on adjoining veranda, smoke definitely drifts most unpleasantly 'next door'. A smoker cannot know how unpleasant and, indeed, sickening that odor can be to a non-smoker. Smokers do not have a fine sense of smell; it is dulled.

 

[GoldenRose]

We're a family who has been hesitant to book with Holland America (or several other cruise lines) up to now because of their smoking policies. I'm very allergic to cigarette smoke, and through my life this allergy has kept me out of venues I would have otherwise enjoyed. (In years before many places instituted bans, I couldn't go bowling, go to bars, or go to small restaurants.)

 

I admit, I am very pleased that several lines are banning smoking on all or many balconies. Honestly, as long as they keep it to one side of the ship, and it is easy to figure out which side of the ship is the smoking side, I think that is a manageable compromise.

[peaches from georgia]

As a retired healthcare professional I am very aware of the dangers of smoking and second hand smoke. Studies have shown that the second hand smoke is even more dangerous than first hand. I am very willing to live and let live except when someones " habit" endangers me and my loved ones health. Cruise lines should ban smoking on board ship, anywhere!

Interesting theory, how about quoting the study sources. I checked with my doctor (a rabid anti-smoker, of course, and an excellent doctor) today when I was in his office and he laughed and also wants your sources. He's never seen or heard of any such study and if there is one out there he would question the study design. In other words, you're spreading nonsense. :rolleyes:

[cruz chic]

Interesting theory, how about quoting the study sources. I checked with my doctor (a rabid anti-smoker, of course, and an excellent doctor) today when I was in his office and he laughed and also wants your sources. He's never seen or heard of any such study and if there is one out there he would question the study design. In other words, you're spreading nonsense. :rolleyes:

Could you tell us how you really feel?

[peaches from georgia]

Could you tell us how you really feel?

I'm passing on my doctor's opinion.

[cruz chic]

I'm passing on my doctor's opinion.

I'm talking about the you're spreading nonsense comment. Was that a direct quote from your doctor?

[peaches from georgia]

I'm talking about the you're spreading nonsense comment. Was that a direct quote from your doctor?

The 'nonsense' was. His words were 'That's nonsense. I've never seen or heard of any study saying that and if there is one I'd question the study design. I'd like to see the sources that say this.", pretty much exactly as I quote.

 

Perhaps I should not have said '"spreading nonsense", but he did say to his knowledge that is nonsense. It doesn't even make sense to a layman. I note the poster has not come back with any data.

[Seren Ap Gwalia]

Previously I have refrained from really posting much on these threads because I think this topic had been done to death and anyone with opinions either way should just go back and read the old threads as a reminder where all this ends up.

 

Now, flame me if you want, but I am a smoker, and I think myself a considerate one - I am careful about people on the other balconies, do not smoke in any inside areas other my cabin and make sure I have a smoke free patch of deck before I light up.

 

Despite all this, why do the ones that complain the most chose to stand 2 feet from me when the come outside and can see I am smoking, and the rest of the deck is empty- then do the "fake" cough, louder and louder until I take notice and then ruin a perfect evening by such hateful hurtful comments when they saw I was there smoking and could simply have chosen another place to stand.

 

This is the only thread that makes me not like my cc home, I find the comments rude, hurtful and some times down right malicious. Yes you are entitled to your view and opinions, but if you want to be respected then please respect others in return - friendly discussion does not have to turn into all out verbal war.

 

I love this site but for me this topic should just be over, we know the views both ways and when attitudes get heated it spoils the entire tone of what CC stands for.

[ibfishing2]

Thank You!!!!!! Well said

[ibfishing2]

Previously I have refrained from really posting much on these threads because I think this topic had been done to death and anyone with opinions either way should just go back and read the old threads as a reminder where all this ends up.

 

Now, flame me if you want, but I am a smoker, and I think myself a considerate one - I am careful about people on the other balconies, do not smoke in any inside areas other my cabin and make sure I have a smoke free patch of deck before I light up.

 

Despite all this, why do the ones that complain the most chose to stand 2 feet from me when the come outside and can see I am smoking, and the rest of the deck is empty- then do the "fake" cough, louder and louder until I take notice and then ruin a perfect evening by such hateful hurtful comments when they saw I was there smoking and could simply have chosen another place to stand.

 

This is the only thread that makes me not like my cc home, I find the comments rude, hurtful and some times down right malicious. Yes you are entitled to your view and opinions, but if you want to be respected then please respect others in return - friendly discussion does not have to turn into all out verbal war.

 

I love this site but for me this topic should just be over, we know the views both ways and when attitudes get heated it spoils the entire tone of what CC stands for.

Thank You!!!!!!!!!! Well said.

[cruz chic]

The 'nonsense' was. His words were 'That's nonsense. I've never seen or heard of any study saying that and if there is one I'd question the study design. I'd like to see the sources that say this.", pretty much exactly as I quote.

 

Perhaps I should not have said '"spreading nonsense", but he did say to his knowledge that is nonsense. It doesn't even make sense to a layman. I note the poster has not come back with any data.

I have noticed that poster has not come back. That said some people do work so may not be able to spend 24/7 on here. I have to agree, the study does sound a bit strange but when the remarks are added to it it doesn't make a person warm about coming back. It's clear that there are 2 camps and that's never going to change but the smokers say they are being beaten up. They are pretty good at beating the non smokers up but they don't seem to see it.

[cruz chic]

Despite all this, why do the ones that complain the most chose to stand 2 feet from me when the come outside and can see I am smoking, and the rest of the deck is empty- then do the "fake" cough, louder and louder until I take notice and then ruin a perfect evening by such hateful hurtful comments when they saw I was there smoking and could simply have chosen another place to stand.

 

.

I've heard this story time and time again from smokers. I've never seen anyone doing a fake cough so I guess I must travel in different circles. I really wonder if this does happen often. I can tell you I do hate the smell of smoke but if I'm in an area where there is smoker I've NEVER done that.

[eh2zed]

References on ETS (Environmental Tobacco Smoke), SHS (Second Hand Smoke) people may be interested in.

 

From the US Surgeon General

www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/

From the Center for Disease Control

www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheet/secondhand_smoke/general_facts/index.htm.

From the National Cancer Institute

www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS

 

Common information from all 3 fact sheets

-ETS or SHS is a health risk

-there is no safe level of exposure to ETS

-young children are at higher risk

[lollytw]

No - repetative - and forgot to rant about perfumes.

 

I don't rant about what other people wear, what they consume (food, drink or smoking), and I certainly don't rant about perfume. My frustration is regarding some, and I said some, nonsmokers' attitudes and judgments. I find that so often a thread has begun with someone asking where they can smoke, and before you know it, people who abhor smoking jump in with how they hate it and how it has ruined their cruises. Some, and again I said some, people pretend it's about health, when what it really seems to be is a way to let out their anger about other people's behavior. I don't care what you look like on my cruise. I don't care what you eat, drink, or smoke. But I do care about your behavior towards others, and if it's rude or judgmental, it's hard to take.

[lollytw]

I think you'll find the number of drunk driving fatalities far exceeds the number of second-hand smoke deaths, not to mention violent homicides perpetrated by drunks.

 

Even on a cruise ship where it's likely you won't be involved in a drunk driving accident, there's still a chance some drunk might do something stupid like drop the anchor while the ship is moving.

 

On the other hand, second hand smoke on a cruiseship is definitely minimized by constraining it to certain indoor areas with strong ventilation and to outside areas where the wind takes care of things. Just because you smell the odor of smoke doesn't mean you're inhaling smoke.

 

 

Good points.

[CowPrincess]

I've heard this story time and time again from smokers. I've never seen anyone doing a fake cough so I guess I must travel in different circles. I really wonder if this does happen often. I can tell you I do hate the smell of smoke but if I'm in an area where there is smoker I've NEVER done that.

 

 

It happens pretty regularly, lorekauf. On land and at sea. One fellow on our Carib/Ryndam cruise dragged his lounge chair into the "smoking" area near the Aft Pool, and then proceeded to yell about the smokers and harangue one of the poor crew members about smoking and insisting that the crew member STOP THE SMOKERS. Some (not all) people feel the need to find a soap box and then use it, y'know? Even if they have to build the soapbox ;)

 

One cruise (can't remember which one) a woman walked by us, we were holding UNLIT cigarettes, by an ashtray, and turned and scowled at us, then proceeded with the cough and arm-waving. Sigh....

[cruz chic]

It happens pretty regularly, lorekauf. On land and at sea. One fellow on our Carib/Ryndam cruise dragged his lounge chair into the "smoking" area near the Aft Pool, and then proceeded to yell about the smokers and harangue one of the poor crew members about smoking and insisting that the crew member STOP THE SMOKERS. Some (not all) people feel the need to find a soap box and then use it, y'know? Even if they have to build the soapbox ;)

 

One cruise (can't remember which one) a woman walked by us, we were holding UNLIT cigarettes, by an ashtray, and turned and scowled at us, then proceeded with the cough and arm-waving. Sigh....

That's just stupid. I can hardly believe people would bother.....and you know my stance. Clearly that person is an idiot. I do have a question though. I cough a fair bit as a side effect of a medication I take. It gets worse when I'm walking. Maybe smokers think I'm doing a fake cough. How does a smoker determine what is a fake cough and which one is real?

[3rdGenCunarder]

That's just stupid. I can hardly believe people would bother.....and you know my stance. Clearly that person is an idiot. I do have a question though. I cough a fair bit as a side effect of a medication I take. It gets worse when I'm walking. Maybe smokers think I'm doing a fake cough. How does a smoker determine what is a fake cough and which one is real?

 

 

Smoke sometimes makes me cough for real. I have allergies (not to smoke) and during allergy season a lot of things that ordinarily don't bother me--especially smoke and heavy perfume--can set off a coughing fit. It's a 'dry cough,' so it might sound fake.

[CowPrincess]

That's just stupid. I can hardly believe people would bother.....and you know my stance. Clearly that person is an idiot. I do have a question though. I cough a fair bit as a side effect of a medication I take. It gets worse when I'm walking. Maybe smokers think I'm doing a fake cough. How does a smoker determine what is a fake cough and which one is real?

 

For me, I presume someone is "fake coughing" when

 

a) I'm not smoking, and they are giving me the "stink eye" and cough while going past me while I am holding an unlit cigarette :)

 

b) they wave their arms (again while I'm not smoking but standing at the rail by an ashtray) and cough.

 

You're right, maybe the cough is a side effect of medication. But when accompanied by the arm waving (to clear away nonexistent smoke) and the "stink eye", I personally suspect that they are making a point, not truly suffering a respiratory event.

 

I have a dear friend who has a subtle cough due to a medical condition. As subtle as it is, it sounds real. And is never accompanied by arm waving and "stink eye" ;)

 

The guy on the lounger? He just built himself a soapbox and used it for all he could ! :D

[3rdGenCunarder]

For me, I presume someone is "fake coughing" when

 

a) I'm not smoking, and they are giving me the "stink eye" and cough while going past me while I am holding an unlit cigarette :)

 

b) they wave their arms (again while I'm not smoking but standing at the rail by an ashtray) and cough.

 

You're right, maybe the cough is a side effect of medication. But when accompanied by the arm waving (to clear away nonexistent smoke) and the "stink eye", I personally suspect that they are making a point, not truly suffering a respiratory event.

 

I have a dear friend who has a subtle cough due to a medical condition. As subtle as it is, it sounds real. And is never accompanied by arm waving and "stink eye" ;)

 

The guy on the lounger? He just built himself a soapbox and used it for all he could ! :D

 

The guy on the lounger is stupid. If he didn't like to be around smoke, he shouldn't drag the lounge chair over to the smoking area. Why put up with the smoke you don't like just to make a point?

 

I really really hate smoke, but my solution is to avoid the smoking areas, not charge into them ranting and flailing my hands.

[RuthC]

I remember a post on a smoking thread from years ago. The poster used the Lido exit to the aft that went through the smoking area, rather than the one on the other side where no smoking was allowed. Then complained greatly that she had to endure the smoke. :eek: No amount of telling her that she could use the other side was enough. She wanted to use that one side, and was demanding that she should have the right to do so without going through smoke. Period. :rolleyes:

That kind of unreasonable attitude keeps the argument going.

[DizzyDallasDi]

I remember a post on a smoking thread from years ago. The poster used the Lido exit to the aft that went through the smoking area, rather than the one on the other side where no smoking was allowed. Then complained greatly that she had to endure the smoke. :eek: No amount of telling her that she could use the other side was enough. She wanted to use that one side, and was demanding that she should have the right to do so without going through smoke. Period. :rolleyes:

 

That kind of unreasonable attitude keeps the argument going.

 

Good lord, some people have such a highfalutin sense of entitlement it simply amazes me.