Second Open Letter to Frank Del Rio

[moggyhill]

To the best of my knowledge we have not received any reply yet. Shame on you Mr Del Rio!!!!!!!!!!

[vaitape]

Yesterday the Dept of State issue a Travel Alert (not a Warning) for India through January 2012. So we're going to India instead of Myanmar?

[les221b]

I'm not sure how Oceania will handle it, but the cost of your trip just

increased by $50 per person.

 

http://www.eta.gov.lk/visainfo/center.jsp?locale=en_US

 

Les

[2kiwis]

Yesterday the Dept of State issue a Travel Alert (not a Warning) for India through January 2012. So we're going to India instead of Myanmar?

 

Might not be going anywhere at this rate :confused:

[moggyhill]

Don't worry. I am sure they will substitute more armpit ports without any passenger input.:eek:

[2kiwis]

Don't worry. I am sure they will substitute more armpit ports without any passenger input.:eek:

 

Find it hard to believe it is a coincidence that changes, which have a huge impact on the quality of the cruise, have been made AFTER final payment again!

 

All you can do now is look elsewhere next time

 

:(

[tanny18]

Find it hard to believe it is a coincidence that changes, which have a huge impact on the quality of the cruise, have been made AFTER final payment again!

 

All you can do now is look elsewhere next time

 

:(

 

Just to let you know that Myanmar was eliminated a full month BEFORE final payment was made; however, Chennai, the substitution, was taken away AFTER final payment.... while I'm not justifying what Oceania did, as per my letter, we all had ample opportunity to cancel before final payment was made. We all chose to stay....We're just very disappointed that an unacceptable port was chosen in place of Chennai. As for looking elsewhere, that's a matter of choice. I and my DH will continue to sail with Oceania. Arlene

[ozdroggy01]

Just to let you know that Myanmar was eliminated a full month BEFORE final payment was made

Just as a matter of interest, due to our 'shyster' TAs in Australia I was required to pay up front by 28 June and did so on 25 June. My TA advised me of the change 4:16 PM 01 July. Maybe the Kwis suffered a similar fate.:mad:

 

For 2kiwis - 1 point - Phew!!!:D

[vaitape]

Appreciate your loyalty Arlene but I have to say that we're looking at other options for future cruises. In our 20/20 hindsight, we should have explored the Department of Treasury reason/excuse/whatever in greater detail and certainly earlier than after final payment. We thought the cancellation was due to safety reasons in some way...but it wasn't.

 

We're happy with most of the originally scheduled ports of call but why wouldn't we be....we CHOSE the cruise BECAUSE of those ports. What we're not happy with is the lack of planning on Oceania's part regarding the berthing situation in Chennai.....that should have been fully researched before final payment. Adding yet another day for a total of 3.5 days to what was meant to be a 1 day visit to Sri Lanka and adding a port in India that has little to offer the tourist and calling it in our best interests is very frustrating/maddening, especially since we have no recourse at this point and that doesn't make us happy.

 

The itinerary changing behavior of Oceania is not specific to our cruise......it's happened more than several times this year on other Oceania cruises. It makes us wonder why...and also makes us start looking elsewhere.

[tanny18]

Appreciate your loyalty Arlene but I have to say that we're looking at other options for future cruises. In our 20/20 hindsight, we should have explored the Department of Treasury reason/excuse/whatever in greater detail and certainly earlier than after final payment. We thought the cancellation was due to safety reasons in some way...but it wasn't.

Of course we should have looked into the Treasury Department "provisos" but unfortuntely not one of us did. And I'm very angry with myself for not doing it!! I knew it wasn't safety reasons...that's State not Treasury and we should have known that. I'll tell you something about Oceania that was really special. When we were sailing from Dubai to Athens for 20 days in April of this (just at the time of the Egypt uprising), Oceania gave us an "alternate" intinerary. If we can't go here we'll go there. No one objected...in fact when the dust settled, the only port we didn't go to that was on the original itinerary was Port Said. Two other ships that left Dubai when we did, stopped in Oman and then went STRAIGHT to Rome or Santorini -- 9 days at sea without a stop....So, I wrote my letter with great disappointment that Oceania could have been so kind to all of us then, and now so totally unacceptable in what they did. This will be our 10th cruise and the only time a port was cancelled was Victoria in August -- but with plenty of anger on the part of passengers, it was put back. That was the main reason I wrote this letter. I wrote one in August as well... We have a few more cruises coming up, and I believe that there will be no cancellations of any port. We enjoy sailing with Oceania -- loyalty aside -- because of the intensity of the ports, the casualness of the ship, the great food, and of course all the nice people I've met over the years who have become my friends. We all booked this cruise for the ports and hopefully we'll all make the most of a very annoying situation -- we do have all those great ports in South Africa!! Arlene

[vaitape]

We don't share your optimism regarding no cancellations on future Oceania cruise schedules Arlene... sorry to say.

 

BUT we WILL make our South Africa, Sands, and Sri Lanka cruise great......we've spent too much money and too much effort in planning to do otherwise.

 

Looking forward to meeting you and your DH in December!

[JimandStan]

Just as a matter of interest, due to our 'shyster' TAs in Australia I was required to pay up front by 28 June and did so on 25 June. My TA advised me of the change 4:16 PM 01 July. Maybe the Kwis suffered a similar fate.:mad:

 

For 2kiwis - 1 point - Phew!!!:D

 

If the folks down under showed more strengtrh of character in NOT BOOKING TRAVEL, then the Agencies that control their bookings might rapidly grow less independant.

Or, they can continue to moan about the shortfalls of American companies.

:o Just a thought :o

[Christine Frances]

Appreciate your loyalty Arlene but I have to say that we're looking at other options for future cruises. In our 20/20 hindsight, we should have explored the Department of Treasury reason/excuse/whatever in greater detail and certainly earlier than after final payment. We thought the cancellation was due to safety reasons in some way...but it wasn't.

 

Here it is http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/burma.aspx

[ozdroggy01]

.......

Or, they can continue to moan about the shortfalls of American companies....

 

Don't get me wrong - I am NOT moaning about American T/As [companies?]. In fact I had terrific cooperation from three USA T/As in helping me try to book before our Australian 'shysters' finally dropped their prices to equal those that were available in the US six months earlier.

 

December 2010 - US Price $10,474.00 USD per person AUS Price $ 15,395.00 per guest.

The US Dollar to Australian Dollar exchange rate on 31 December 2010 was 1 USD = 0.9781 AUD so that is almost 44% over the top. And there is no free Air fares in our pricing.

 

 

Unfortunately I know the 'legals' of making bookings through the US and OCEANIA is one company that specifically will not accept overseas bookings through US T/As.

 

 

Maybe it another of those US Department of The Treasury things ;)

[PaulMCO]

Why should we have researched the Treasury laws. I actually think that Oceania is bowing to political pressure and not Treasury laws. If it were Treasury laws, then they would have NEVER gone to Burma in the first place. The CURRENT rules regarding Burma were established under an executive order signed by then President Bush in 2003. The last changes were made in 2008. Nothing has changed since then, in fact Oceania had visited Burma twice in 2011 -- once in January and most recently in April.

 

What I am disappointed in is the trashy ports in the revised itinerary of Magalore and Sri Lanka. Oceania should have changed or added some Eastern Indian ports like Mumbai -- which would have nicely substituted for losing Burma. At least the Taj would have been accessible.

 

Further -- Oceania continues its deceptive marketing in 2013 with the same itinerary -- including stops in Tanzania and Kenya. Anyone care to wager that these ports will be canceled???

[moggyhill]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:Further -- Oceania continues its deceptive marketing in 2013 with the same itinerary -- including stops in Tanzania and Kenya. Anyone care to wager that these ports will be canceled???

new cruise should be called LIES LIES AND ARMPITS OF THE WORLD

[Paulchili]

Further -- Oceania continues its deceptive marketing in 2013 with the same itinerary -- including stops in Tanzania and Kenya. Anyone care to wager that these ports will be canceled???

 

 

This is the part that I find most upsetting.

IIRC, the Kenya and Tanzania stops were cancelled twice before (2011 & 2012) and Myanmar once (2012), although I admit that I was not closely following these itineraries as I am not interested in them. If I am wrong about this, please correct me.

However, if this is the case, to advertise such an itinerary for 2013 is truly deceptive, at best.

That is a new Oceania practice for me - an Oceania I do not like and hope it is not an Oceania of the future, as far as other itineraries are concerned - i.e. advertising unrealistic itineraries only to get bookings.

This is one time I hope I am wrong.

[PaulMCO]

This is the part that I find most upsetting.

IIRC, the Kenya and Tanzania stops were cancelled twice before (2011 & 2012) and Myanmar once (2012), although I admit that I was not closely following these itineraries as I am not interested in them. If I am wrong about this, please correct me.

However, if this is the case, to advertise such an itinerary for 2013 is truly deceptive, at best.

That is a new Oceania practice for me - an Oceania I do not like and hope it is not an Oceania of the future, as far as other itineraries are concerned - i.e. advertising unrealistic itineraries only to get bookings.

This is one time I hope I am wrong.

 

You are correct Paul.

You know they will be canceled again -- Especially considering the recent military incursion into Somalia by the Kenyan Army. The reason is of course to go after the rebels who have kidnapped Tourists in Kenya.

[victoriasailor]

Appreciate your loyalty Arlene but I have to say that we're looking at other options for future cruises. In our 20/20 hindsight, we should have explored the Department of Treasury reason/excuse/whatever in greater detail and certainly earlier than after final payment. We thought the cancellation was due to safety reasons in some way...but it wasn't.

 

Here it is http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/burma.aspx

 

I agree with Christine Frances. If we had the foresight to check this out in greater detail before final payment six months in advance we might have reconsidered since O's explanation is not credible. Given how unhelpful O's explanations about withdrawing from Myanmar portion, we followed up with an extensive conversation with the enforcement division of the OFAC section of U.S. Department of Treasury this morning. They say there is no reason at this time why any American cannot travel to Burma although they are subject to the modest restrictions of the sanctions against Burma. There is no record of any breach of the Act by Oceania. Whatever the reason for withdrawal of Myanmar by Oceania, it is not the one stated. O's advertising Myanmar in future cruises can only be viewed as deceptive and untrustworthy.

Hence, there are currently more security or personal safety reasons for not going to parts of India or Sri Lanka. What is pathetic is the substitution of ports that are of limited interest which have devalued this cruise. Speaking personally we would prefer a longer stay in Phuket to Mangalore and Trincomalee. We can vent our frustrations as much as we like on this board but unless Oceania hears directly from (more) passengers that are unhappy with this cruise, it looks like we are stuck with whatever they dish up! This experience with Oceania's itinerary substitutions will certainly inform our decision on future cruises.

[ozdroggy01]

Thank you victoriasailor.

 

Given how unhelpful O's explanations about withdrawing from Myanmar portion, we followed up with an extensive conversation with the enforcement division of the OFAC section of U.S. Department of Treasury this morning. They say there is no reason at this time why any American cannot travel to Burma although they are subject to the modest restrictions of the sanctions against Burma. There is no record of any breach of the Act by Oceania. Whatever the reason for withdrawal of Myanmar by Oceania, it is not the one stated.

 

I am glad to see that we now have a definitive answer from USDOT as I have maintained that the Oceania given excuse was spurious at best. I have also written a formal letter to Del Rio a copy of which was emailed last Friday. I do not expect the snail mail version to arrive until this week. I am still expecting a reply.

 

In my letter I specifically quoted from and drew attention to http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/burma.aspx

 

In my letter I said:

 

In the light of the foregoing it would appear that there never has been any impediment to NAUTICA visiting Yangon posed by the U S Department of The Treasury.

 

and concluded with:

 

You will be aware of the ill feeling caused by these changes and the considerable damage that is being done to Oceania's reputation. Many recall that NAUTICA visited Yangon in 2010 and that if anything things have improved in Burma since; they see no logic in the omission.

I believe it would be in Oceania's best interests to look again at the cruise as it stood in June 2011 with a view to providing your passengers with the cruise they expected.

 

I find it hard to believe that some middle level employee of Oceania is not monitoring this thread. I am ever hopeful of a sensible outcome to this whole sorry saga.

[Paulchili]

I find it hard to believe that some middle level employee of Oceania is not monitoring this thread. I am ever hopeful of a sensible outcome to this whole sorry saga.

 

Actually, I believe that it is FDR himself that reads these threads - at least he is the one responding from time to time.

[tanny18]

 

I. Given how unhelpful O's explanations about withdrawing from Myanmar portion, we followed up with an extensive conversation with the enforcement division of the OFAC section of U.S. Department of Treasury this morning. They say there is no reason at this time why any American cannot travel to Burma although they are subject to the modest restrictions of the sanctions against Burma. There is no record of any breach of the Act by Oceania. Whatever the reason for withdrawal of Myanmar by Oceania, it is not the one stated. O's advertising Myanmar in future cruises can only be viewed as deceptive and untrustworthy.

Hence, there are currently more security or personal safety reasons for not going to parts of India or Sri Lanka. What is pathetic is the substitution of ports that are of limited interest which have devalued this cruise. Speaking personally we would prefer a longer stay in Phuket to Mangalore and Trincomalee. We can vent our frustrations as much as we like on this board but unless Oceania hears directly from (more) passengers that are unhappy with this cruise, it looks like we are stuck with whatever they dish up! This experience with Oceania's itinerary substitutions will certainly inform our decision on future cruises.

 

Why don't we all send this to Oceania and ask them for a definitive explanation as to why we cannot go to Burma!!! I for one will send this to Mr. Gonzalez, VP Passenger Services.....If we have info from the Treasury Dept. that there is not reason we cannot go to Burma, then why can't we? My e-mail will go out tomorrow!!! If anyone wants his e-mail address, let me know.... tanny5258@att.net Arlene

[vaitape]

Arlene, do you think that Mr Gonzalez is the person to handle our complaints and concerns, despite his title? After all, he was the one who issued the following:

 

"On June 29th of this year we notified all Guests booked on this cruise through their Travel Agent that Myanmar (Burma) is “an affected country for purposes of travel under the enforcement guidelines imposed by the United States Department of the Treasury”. We are not in a position to willfully violate the rules imposed by the Treasury Department. Myanmar will not be reinstated on any of our itineraries."

 

We now know his statement was less than forthcoming. Perhaps the person who should be addressed is Mr Del Rio.

[tanny18]

Arlene, do you think that Mr Gonzalez is the person to handle our complaints and concerns, despite his title? After all, he was the one who issued the following:

 

"On June 29th of this year we notified all Guests booked on this cruise through their Travel Agent that Myanmar (Burma) is “an affected country for purposes of travel under the enforcement guidelines imposed by the United States Department of the Treasury”. We are not in a position to willfully violate the rules imposed by the Treasury Department. Myanmar will not be reinstated on any of our itineraries."

 

We now know his statement was less than forthcoming. Perhaps the person who should be addressed is Mr Del Rio.

As I understand it, he and/or the new president of Oceania, Bruce Himelstein, are the persons "in charge" right now. Frank Del Rio DID NOT answer my letter....Gonzalez did, albeit, a definite "standard" answer. Right now, I don't know what to do. :( Maybe tomorrow I'll call the Treasury Dept and see what I can get in writing from them and take it from there!! Arlene

[vaitape]

You'll probably be referred to the USDOT website as it is all spelled out there, albeit in legalese but worth a try anyway I suppose.

 

Disappointed to learn that Mr Del Rio is no longer the person in charge. From what I've read, he was responsive and sensitive to his customers. From what I've experienced with the new "people in charge", I can't say the same.