It's Official: Cunard Re-flags Ships in Bermuda, Launches Weddings at Sea

[Whitemarsh]

No, and I'm sure it's unrelated...but I've just had a flyer for a QM2 TA for £499.....that's the lowest I've seen! If they are having to price at this level no wonder they are keeping a tight control on crew costs....

 

Are other lines offering similar discounts I wonder? I recall a while ago that many ships, that had been scheduled for Mediterranean cruises, were sent elsewhere due to lack of demand. The economy of most Western countries aren't going gang-busters right now. I would think that has a bigger impact rather than the reflagging.

 

Interestingly though, Cunard aren't offering discounts at all on their 2013 itineraries, around OZ anyway. I'm still waiting for that.

[Salacia]

But really, is it the end of the world?

 

There is only one poster on here that I recall who, as a result of this decision, has vowed never to sail on Cunard again. Everyone else is disappointed (in varying degrees) but is still planing to sail on Cunard again.

 

 

Clearly, it is not the end of the world.:rolleyes:

 

I don't know how many passengers will decide not to sail with Cunard again as a result of the re-flagging; only time will tell. But no matter, there will always be bodies to fill the berths at discounted rates.

 

How long will it be before the difference in registry becomes evident? And who will care when it does - provided the fares are low enough to fit the budget. When crews' contracts expire - how many will choose to renew? Several posters have written that it is not their concern if the crew is unhappy with their wages or working conditions, so perhaps the training and experience of the crew will have no affect on bookings whatsoever. The berths will be filled, there will be a crew, and the ship will continue to sail. Carnival Corp will continue to make huge profits.

 

The world will go on.

 

Happy sails.

Salacia

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

 

Interestingly though' date=' Cunard aren't offering discounts at all on their 2013 itineraries, around OZ anyway. I'm still waiting for that.[/quote']

 

2013?

You're looking for a discount already? After all your Cunard voyages, I'm sure there will be a special offer in the post for you soon! :)

 

Let's see: if the ship can go even slower thus using less fuel, and if there are lowered requirements for crew salary/living conditions, smaller plates, more dining venues with surcharges, increased photo options, more buying venues on board, oh wait...

 

WEDDINGS ON BOARD WILL INCREASE REVENUE!

 

Blimey! You're sure to have a discounted rate in 2013!

 

If only they'd allow for a barbie on the balcony!

 

Cheers,

Salacia

[Whitemarsh]

How long will it be before the difference in registry becomes evident? And who will care when it does - provided the fares are low enough to fit the budget. When crews' contracts expire - how many will choose to renew? Several posters have written that it is not their concern if the crew is unhappy with their wages or working conditions, so perhaps the training and experience of the crew will have no affect on bookings whatsoever. The berths will be filled, there will be a crew, and the ship will continue to sail. Carnival Corp will continue to make huge profits.

 

The world will go on.

 

Happy sails.

Salacia

 

I'm pretty sure that the reflagging is not going to negatively affect the pay or conditions of the crew.

 

Below is a partial quote from a frequent cruiser on Cunard. The bold text is my addition.

 

After a snack in the buffet I wandered around and bumped into some passengers and crew that I have travelled with before. Speaking to the crew I enquired of them whether the re-flagging would affect them at all. They were unanimous and quite vehement that it would not and they went on to say that if it did result in a cut to their income they would easily be able to find alternative employment with other lines. I know that there are various threads being stoked by the ignorant averring that it will reduce their income, perhaps this tedious subject can now be put to bed as I have related the true story from the horse’s mouth. To me it was blindingly obvious and not even worthy of comment that these crew members are only on board to make money which they mostly save, therefore any threat to that situation would result in a mass exodus to the gangway.

[guernseyguy]

if there are lowered requirements for crew salary/living conditions

 

In fairness, I think all they've done is maintain the status quo ante - they are not cutting wages, just not increasing them in the way that the UK Equality act was going to force them to.

 

Realistically, even if they had stayed UK flagged they probably would then not have increased the wages long term any way (thus creating two classes of employee onboard EU and non-EU) - they simply would not have re-hired the EU staff after their contracts expired.

 

So the 'theoretically' better off EU crew would in fact have been unemployed....

[Salacia]

In fairness, I think all they've done is maintain the status quo ante - they are not cutting wages, just not increasing them in the way that the UK Equality act was going to force them to.

 

Realistically, even if they had stayed UK flagged they probably would then not have increased the wages long term any way (thus creating two classes of employee onboard EU and non-EU) - they simply would not have re-hired the EU staff after their contracts expired.

 

So the 'theoretically' better off EU crew would in fact have been unemployed....

 

My understanding was that the UK staff's wages were governed by UK law as long as the ships were registered in the UK.

 

The EU crew would have commanded the same salary had the ship remained registered in the UK under the new law. HOWEVER...

 

Now that Cunard ships are registered in Bermuda, all the crew and officer's salaries are governed by Bermuda law.

 

I sincerely doubt that CCL will continue to pay UK wages to those from the UK if CCL stands a change of hiring for less once those contracts expire.

[Whitemarsh]

You're looking for a discount already? After all your Cunard voyages, I'm sure there will be a special offer in the post for you soon! :)

 

Yes of course I'm looking to save money and take advantage of cheaper fares. We can't all live in the U.S.A where everything is so cheap, cheap, cheap. Lucky thing that you are. :)

 

I knew you'd be supportive of my search for cheaper voyages, so I can cruise more often. After all, I wouldn't want to be away from Cunard for so long that I forget what the Britannia restaurant, Chart Room & Queens Room look like. :eek:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30696780&postcount=16

[Salacia]

Yes of course I'm looking to save money and take advantage of cheaper fares. We can't all live in the U.S.A where everything is so cheap, cheap, cheap. Lucky thing that you are. :)

 

I knew you'd be supportive of my search for cheaper voyages, so I can cruise more often. After all, I wouldn't want to be away from Cunard for so long that I forget what the Britannia restaurant, Chart Room & Queens Room look like. :eek:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30696780&postcount=16

 

 

Yes, thank you, I do consider myself very lucky to live in the USA.

[capnpugwash]

Yes of course I'm looking to save money and take advantage of cheaper fares. We can't all live in the U.S.A where everything is so cheap, cheap, cheap. Lucky thing that you are. :)

 

I knew you'd be supportive of my search for cheaper voyages, so I can cruise more often. After all, I wouldn't want to be away from Cunard for so long that I forget what the Britannia restaurant, Chart Room & Queens Room look like. :eek:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30696780&postcount=16

 

tsk tsk tsk!

[guernseyguy]

I sincerely doubt that CCL will continue to pay UK wages to those from the UK if CCL stands a change of hiring for less once those contracts expire.

 

If your hypothesis was correct, then surely all the P&O and Princess UK personnel would have moved to Cunard for the better wages, given the former have been Bermudan flagged for some time?

 

Since people move back and forth between P&O and Cunard fairly frequently, I doubt your hypothesis is correct.

 

Cunard will either pay 'the market rate' for their employees, or lose them to other companies - apart from the potential impact on non-UK EU crew, I doubt this move will have any impact on others' salaries.

 

As I pointed out earlier, for non-UK EU crew the options probably were 'current salary' or 'unemployment'.....

 

But your questions do illustrate this PR Omnishambles - which could very easily have been addressed head on in a simple series of Q&As:

 

Q Are you changing registry so you can cut crew wages?

 

A No. No crew wages will be cut as a result of this move. We are making this move to ensure we can maintain employment flexibility and remain competitive in the marketplace.

[Salacia]

If your hypothesis was correct, then surely all the P&O and Princess UK personnel would have moved to Cunard for the better wages, given the former have been Bermudan flagged for some time?

 

Since people move back and forth between P&O and Cunard fairly frequently, I doubt your hypothesis is correct.

 

Cunard will either pay 'the market rate' for their employees, or lose them to other companies - apart from the potential impact on non-UK EU crew, I doubt this move will have any impact on others' salaries.

 

As I pointed out earlier, for non-UK EU crew the options probably were 'current salary' or 'unemployment'.....

 

But your questions do illustrate this PR Omnishambles - which could very easily have been addressed head on in a simple series of Q&As:

 

Q Are you changing registry so you can cut crew wages?

 

A No. No crew wages will be cut as a result of this move. We are making this move to ensure we can maintain employment flexibility and remain competitive in the marketplace.

 

But Cunard hasn't made that statement...and if not, why not?

[guernseyguy]

[/b]

 

But Cunard hasn't made that statement...and if not, why not?

They haven't made ANY statement! Omnishambles.

 

Meanwhile British flagged ships to get armed guards. I wonder what Bermudan flagged ships will do?

[Salacia]

They haven't made ANY statement! Omnishambles.

 

Meanwhile British flagged ships to get armed guards. I wonder what Bermudan flagged ships will do?

 

Armed guards? There are no guns in Bermuda, no crime, no gangs, no one gets shot. Just ask any public official (but don't read the local newspapers). Just to add that I found Bermuda to be a wonderful island, and I met many lovely people there. Transparency is another issue entirely.

[Norfolk Brit]

Peter was referring to ships vulnerable to Somali pirate attack - here's his link again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15510467.

 

Mary:)

[Salacia]

Peter was referring to ships vulnerable to Somali pirate attack - here's his link again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15510467.

 

Mary:)

 

Yes, I understand. And I am sure Cunard ships are well equipped to protect its passengers.

 

I've seen ex-Gurkhas (and other ex-British military/navy) on watch in the past. Very reassuring -Top notch security! -S

[Topsham]

Armed guards? There are no guns in Bermuda, no crime, no gangs, no one gets shot. Just ask any public official (but don't read the local newspapers). Just to add that I found Bermuda to be a wonderful island, and I met many lovely people there. Transparency is another issue entirely.

 

 

Sadly there are gangs in Bermuda... just like everywhere else. But I've got a great idea.... pick a bunch of them... from one gang only of course... and put them on board to protect the rest of us from the pirates!

[guernseyguy]

Sadly there are gangs in Bermuda... just like everywhere else. But I've got a great idea.... pick a bunch of them... from one gang only of course... and put them on board to protect the rest of us from the pirates!

 

Joking apart - presumably the Bermudan Parliament will have to legislate (or Government regulate) to effect this on Bermudan registered ships.....will they?

[Topsham]

Joking apart - presumably the Bermudan Parliament will have to legislate (or Government regulate) to effect this on Bermudan registered ships.....will they?

 

 

Yes, it will have to be passed by Parliament. I cannot see any problem as it relates to security of vessels on the high seas.

 

The problem with pirates is that they don't care about laws from anywhere and if they decide to attack a vessel and know that there is a possibility that they mey receive return fire, they will still attack but with more force. One of the reasons why merchant ships do not carry arms.

[guernseyguy]

One of the reasons why merchant ships do not carry arms.

 

I guess all three ship's best defence is speed.....and while QE/QV are nowhere near as fast as QM2, 23+knots is still a fair lick....

[Topsham]

I guess all three ship's best defence is speed.....and while QE/QV are nowhere near as fast as QM2, 23+knots is still a fair lick....

 

 

Very true. Even 18 knots is not bad. Coming alongside a high sided vessel in a small boat is not going to be easy at any time.

 

Unfortunately rocket launchers etc can still make a mess of a ship and create havoc.

 

Personally I think a convoy system is the best answer with an armed escort.

[guernseyguy]

Very true. Even 18 knots is not bad. Coming alongside a high sided vessel in a small boat is not going to be easy at any time.

 

I look forward to the day someone repeats Captain Bertram Fox Hayes trick with the Olympic and U-103....

[Topsham]

I look forward to the day someone repeats Captain Bertram Fox Hayes trick with the Olympic and U-103....

 

You better hope your Tincantieri ship can match anything that Harland & Wolff has built or you will both end up on the bottom!:eek:

[Leucothea]

The handling of this situation by Cunard/Carnival/P&O is incredibly odd. Mr Shanks comes across as hoping all this just goes away as opposed to addressing Cunard's client issues and concerns. Now I read where Cunard's Facebook page has deleted comments from their page and has been accused of blocking others from posting.

 

Seems very odd and a dated approach to this situation. Makes you wonder who on earth is in charge of all this and what their credentials are.

 

 

I just seems to me this is the way US corporations operate now, and have been operating for quite a while.

[Leucothea]

Oceanic, I agree it is very odd indeed. In addition, that Carnival (CCL) did not disclose material facts to CCL stockholders regarding plans to re-flag Cunard ships is also very curious. The deed is done, but it is not forgotten by more than a few. -S.

 

 

Corporations here do not include the customer or the public in their decision making process. Even when they use the customers' ideas or input, it will not be aknowledged. It is virtually impossible to have any direct communication with those in charge, or with personnel in the administrative offices. If you do manage to do so, you will receive a response something like "it's a business decision"; end of story, goodbye.

[Leucothea]

But really, is it the end of the world?

 

There is only one poster on here that I recall who, as a result of this decision, has vowed never to sail on Cunard again. Everyone else is disappointed (in varying degrees) but is still planing to sail on Cunard again.

 

Have you checked the Facebook page? Quite a few posters on there have taken themselves off the Cunard mailing list and/or have in fact vowed to no longer sail on Cunard. One British councilman, working for Cameron, has said he will not sail with Cunard unless they change the registration back to Southampton.