Big mistake by Holland America

[sail7seas]

[quote name='kyriecat']Holland America is defintely not the only cruiseline that charters their ships. Royal Caribbean canceled two cruises that I had booked and their customer service was horrible!

I had booked a Caribbean cruise over a year in advance so I could pick the aft cabin that I wanted. About 10 months before sail date, RC called to say the ship was chartered and I needed to pick another sail date. They offered a couple dates as alternatives, but both were in March which is a very difficult month for my husband to take off work. They were offering $450 OBC to switch dates, but we had to rebook at the current rate. The current rate for the cabin type we wanted was over $1200 more than when we booked but no afts were available. That was not a good deal! I said no thanks and we switched to a Med cruise for that year and booked a Caribbean cruise for the following year.

The day before we were flying to Rome for our Med cruise, RC called to say our Caribbean cruise was canceled. However, the woman on the phone didn't seem to know what cruise she was calling about. She never identified the ship or sail date, just said she was calling to notify me that my cruise had been canceled. I had the Med cruise on my mind so I thought she was calling about that one. I even said we were flying to Rome in the morning and her response was, "I'd cancel those flights if I were you." I was ready to cry. It wasn't until I asked about compensation for changed plans and she responded that RC wasn't offering anything that it finally dawned on me that she might not be calling about the Med cruise. When I asked what ship and sail date, she said she would have to look that up. When she came back on and told me that it was the Carribean cruise not the Med one, I was so mad about the scare that I told her to cancel the Caribbean cruise. I wasn't interested in rebooking.

When I got back from the Med cruise, I booked a Caribbean cruise for the following year on Holland America. I used to sail almost exclusively with Royal Caribbean, but since the cruise cancellations, I've become more open to trying other lines.[/quote]


[B] This is Horrible and I'm so sorry you had such a thing happen to you. Talk about a moron doing the worst possible customer interaction. [/B]



[quote name='Viesczy']What I am about to say is a condemnation of the practice & not a line...

Let's spin this another way & again I'm faulting the industry, not HAL, as it is rampant within the industry... rather than selling cruises, say they are doctors and transplanting organs/replacing joints.

You have a date of X to get the work done, another party says, "Hey Doc, I'll pay more for part/organ Y", and the Doc drops you like you're part of the excess population, what's your opinion then?

Before the apologist jump in and say "that's not the same thing because one is a vacation and the other is a medical procedure" keep in mind that medical procedures are because of availability $, no other reason. Both are selling a service, they'll take your $ for X--the cruise line's X is relief from the daily grind and the doc's X is relief from what is ailing you.

If any cruise line says Room X is worth Y and person Z agrees to that worth by entering into the contract, the line should stand on that contract UNLESS there are mechanical issues that make the boat not seaworthy. Honor what you've entered into, line and passenger. Honor.

Because something is rampant, doesn't mean it is right. All it means is that we're desensitized to it, that we accept it out of apathy.

Again, this is a condemnation of the practice, not a line.

Derek[/quote]


[B] OPEN HEART SURGERIES are cancelled the morning scheduled. I am very familiar with such situations and though a patient's valve replacement surgery may have been scheduled weeks prior, it is not uncommon to show up at the hospital and be told an emergency took your spot and you have to rebook. This at the top heart centers in the country as well as the community hospitals that do such surgeries.

Put that concept into the place of a vacation booked 10 months out being cancelled and somehow it becomes somewhat less traumatic.

[/B]

[whogo]

[quote name='sail7seas']

[B]OPEN HEART SURGERIES are cancelled the morning scheduled. I am very familiar with such situations and though a patient's valve replacement surgery may have been scheduled weeks prior, it is not uncommon to show up at the hospital and be told an emergency took your spot and you have to rebook. This at the top heart centers in the country as well as the community hospitals that do such surgeries.

Put that concept into the place of a vacation booked 10 months out being cancelled and somehow it becomes somewhat less traumatic.

[/B][/quote]

I am sorry, sir, we are canceling your surgery scheduled for today. Instead we will do elective, cosmetic surgery on a more profitable patient.

[bepsf]

[quote name='catl331'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]If you wait to book until you are within 90 days, or better yet after final payment day which is typically 75 days, you won't have to worry about cancellations for charters. But unforeseen mechanical problems could cause a cruise cancellation even then.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[/quote]

[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]...and if you wait to book your Air and Hotels for final payment [I](Which seems like common sense to me)[/I] you will not have to concern yourself with those penalties either.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[kazu]

[quote name='bepsf'][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]...and if you wait to book your Air and Hotels for final payment [I](Which seems like common sense to me)[/I] you will not have to concern yourself with those penalties either.[/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

not really - it depends upon where you are going and how in demand the flights and hotels are. Sales on flights don't necessarily happen after final payment and there may not be flights available. Especially for Europe and peak times to the Caribbean/Florida. Hotels are not as big a deal as usually you can cancel without penalty 2 weeks to 48 hours in advance (2 weeks is for Europe). ( If you want to use FF miles, you need to book very early - however, for a fee they can be refunded to your account/they offer insurance in case of cancellation). We always book early if using FF miles. JMO & experience

[sail7seas]

[quote name='whogo']I am sorry, sir, we are canceling your surgery scheduled for today. Instead we will do elective, cosmetic surgery on a more profitable patient.[/quote]


[B]Actually, it's Ma'am, Not Sir. :D[/B]

[DFD1]

The heart surgery analogy won't fly.

Mine was cancelled as I was being rolled into the operating theatre because my surgeon had just finished an emergency and declined to take the responsibility for my surgery because of fatigue.

I had a choice....another surgeon....or wait 24 hours until he was rested and fit.

I waited.

The idea that the charters should not be a part of any cruise lines business practices is unrealistic. They are here and here to stay.

IMO

[English_in_Spain]

[quote name='bepsf'][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]...and if you wait to book your Air and Hotels for final payment [I](Which seems like common sense to me)[/I] you will not have to concern yourself with those penalties either.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

[FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"]That is not always possible. Our flight is Upper Class on Virgin Atlantic London to Miami at Easter. You need to get in early to be sure of booking these flights.

[/SIZE][/FONT]

[sail7seas]

[quote name='DFD1']The heart surgery analogy won't fly.

Mine was cancelled as I was being rolled into the operating theatre because my surgeon had just finished an emergency and declined to take the responsibility for my surgery because of fatigue.

I had a choice....another surgeon....or wait 24 hours until he was rested and fit.

I waited.

The idea that the charters should not be a part of any cruise lines business practices is unrealistic. They are here and here to stay.

IMO[/quote]


[B]It flies......[/B]

[B]I participate on a heart forum and some of the stories there are nerve jarring. There are few things more anxiety producing than heart surgery and some of those folks have their priorities in good order.[/B]

[B]I think many of us would shrug at a vacation cancelled 10+ months in advance as compared to other real life experiences of that sort.[/B]

[B]Sorry that happened to you.[/B]
[B]It had to be hard.

Yes. Cruise ship charters are big money makers and the cruise lines are delighted when they get a full charter. I'm sure none like to disappoint their booked guests but business is business and profit usually wins.[/B]

[Krazy Kruizers]

[quote name='bepsf'][FONT=Garamond][SIZE=4]...and if you wait to book your Air and Hotels for final payment [I]([B][COLOR=red]Which seems like[/COLOR][/B] [B][COLOR=red]common sense to me[/COLOR][/B])[/I] you will not have to concern yourself with those penalties either.[/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]We have so flights out of our area that if you do not book as soon as possible -- you will be out of luck!![/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]Over 1/2 of our airport has been closed down.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]US Airways used to have 549 flights a day -- now they are down to 42 -- and will cut more Jan 1.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]Other airlines are not picking up extra flights. In Fact Jan 1 -- Southwestern will be cutting flights.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Krazy Kruizers]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] This is Horrible and I'm so sorry you had such a thing happen to you. Talk about a moron doing the worst possible customer interaction. [/B]






[B]OPEN HEART SURGERIES are cancelled the morning scheduled. I am very familiar with such situations and though a patient's valve replacement surgery may have been scheduled weeks prior, it is not uncommon to show up at the hospital and be told an emergency took your spot and you have to rebook. This at the top heart centers in the country as well as the community hospitals that do such surgeries.[/B]

[B]Put that concept into the place of a vacation booked 10 months out being cancelled and somehow it becomes somewhat less traumatic.[/B]

[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]Know what you are talking about.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]DH had his heart attack in the wee hours of a Monday morning. He was scheduled for something that was not as traumatic as yours -- 2 stints (only 1 was successfully put in) -- for the next day (Tuesday). He was transfered to the operating hospital -- prepped and then it was cancelled until the following week.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4]We were scheduled to fly out to Australia for a Princess cruise. They really great about the situation.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Typhoon1]

Heart surgery and cruise ships is like comparing apples to oranges. Let's try to compare apples to apples.

[Viesczy]

[quote name='whogo']I am sorry, sir, we are canceling your surgery scheduled for today. Instead we will do elective, cosmetic surgery on a more profitable patient.[/quote]

Whogo, I'm glad to see you understand it.

For the rest, why is it is out of the question for anyone or anything to stand on what was offered and sold? You don't see how this practice devalues us as individual consumers?

How about this since apples to apples is requested, you book & pay for a World Cruise in THE POSHEST suite on any line's premier boat, this is what you've been looking forward to since time out of memory. Then I come along, telling Corporate that I'll pay full brochure price because I'm some noveau riche piece of excrement who just won the Powerball buying what I want like the noveau riche piece of excrement I am, and they accept my offer, bumping you out with a "thanks but here's your coin" letter, letting you know why, and that there's no more room on the boat.

How does that make you feel? That you weren't a good as some parvenu, right? You going to spend your money there again after it wasn't good enough that time?

How about a car purchase? Your ride that you ordered to your exact details/wants/hopes has arrived and you're scheduled to pick it up on Friday, but the dealer calls you on Friday mornging to tell you that it was sold to another customer who paid MSRP Thursday night and the check is in the mail for the non purchase as they can't order you another one.

How does that make you feel? Going to get another car from them ever again?

Or in a mate/date;

For the guys, a lady you are smitten with likes you good enough today, but 3 weeks from now some noveau riche cad comes a sniffing around she drops you like you're a leper, you going to spend any time with that lady once that noveau riche cad got what he wanted?

For the ladies, a guy that is the object of your heart's desire is happy enough to spend time with you now, but what about a month later when some overly made up trollip with a rich daddy comes a knocking and he chooses her? When that trollip finds another greasy beau and dumps him AND he comes a knocking again... you going to even think about giving him the time of day?

Your word is the only thing that you give and still keep, it is that easy. Personal, professional or Corporate, it is that easy.

I'm not attacking any line, but the practice itself; the devaluation of us as individuals.

Derek

[sail7seas]

[B]They lose a customer, they get a new customer. It's the way of all business. Marriages come and go; customers come and go.

If I don't buy an "SA" suite ever again, they'll selll them to someone else.


IMO[/B]

[iancal]

If it were my business, I would go with the certainty of a charter.

As someone who could get bumped from a cruise I don't like it but that's business. I do think that HAL should compensate booked passengers who have an airline fare issue resulting from this.

[kazu]

[quote name='iancal']If it were my business, I would go with the certainty of a charter.

As someone who could get bumped from a cruise I don't like it but that's business. I do think that HAL should compensate booked passengers who have an airline fare issue resulting from this.[/quote]

I agree. Let's not forget that charters are booked and you know they go. Passengers can cancel up until final payment date without penalty and the cruise line is left putting them on sale. The Prinsendam was all but sold out until a week before final payment date. Obviously the economy impacted some people's decisions.

There should, however be some type of compensation offered for air fare if it is non refundable or other expenses. Or a discount on another cruise (if there is one) leaving from the same port within a day or two.

[Mar56]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B]They lose a customer, they get a new customer. It's the way of all business. Marriages come and go; customers come and go.[/B]

[B]If I don't buy an "SA" suite ever again, they'll selll them to someone else. [/B]


[B]IMO[/B][/quote]

Sail, it's true that it's the way of MOST businesses. Maybe not all. But I get what Viesczy is saying. It SHOULDN'T be that way. And while there have always, throughout history, been businesses who didn't care, there have also been those that did - that really cared about their clients/customers/workers etc. what's happened to that? It's the same attitude that permeates (sp?) our world - it's all about me, I don't care what impact it has on you etc etc.

It's sad, doesn't say much for human beings, but it's reality. It's just sometimes difficult to accept that reality. That's all.

And I'm not living in lala land honest. I'm a self employed accountant and I deal with mom and pop businesses. Those that offer the wonderful services and know their customers are being eaten alive by Walmart, tim Hortons, Lowes, big box etc etc.

Mar56