My public letter to Royal: why do you keep pushing me away?

[ClemsonTiger96]

Let me first say that my wife and I cruise with our three kids. Now let me say that the OP couldn't be more correct. I can't stand watching unsupervised kids screwing around with no parents in sight, or if they are in sight letting the kids behavior continue. Nothing is more frustrating to me then watching parents let borish behavior continue. Parents either are afraid to parent these days or are too lazy to parent these days. You better believe that if I see my kids doing cannonballs or pushing all the numbers on the elevator that we'll be going back to the room for a long talk. Luckily I've brought them up so they wouldn't consider to do something so stupid and rude.

 

Even though I am nowhere near Diamond status, I think that the CL should be only for adults. They earned the right to have somewhere they can go and relax where children are off limits. I don't think it's too much to ask that they have that area to unwind without having to worry about someone's unsupervised child.

 

If they set a goal that they want to reach Diamond status to enjoy some added perks only to have them taken away, then they should be upset.

[Cruisin824]

It used to be fairly clearly advertised that 7:00 was the cutoff for families with children. I haven't really noticed it in writing on board in recent years, so I don't know if the rule still exists. Although, I think the RCI website might still say it.

 

If this is still the case then I would certainly follow the rule although I wouldn't be dining after 7 with the family anyway as that to me would be more of a night out type of thing for adults. Others made it seem like children should never be allowed and that I have an issue with.

[ducklite]

It used to be fairly clearly advertised that 7:00 was the cutoff for families with children. I haven't really noticed it in writing on board in recent years, so I don't know if the rule still exists. Although, I think the RCI website might still say it.

 

We often vacation at a resort that has a family dining policy, children will be accommodated in the dining room, however they will be seated away from other diners and there is a zero tolerance policy. They request that children under 12 be finished with meals and out of the dining room by 7:00 pm and move service along to accomplish this. I've seen them box meals and send families packing a couple of times either because the children became disruptive or because they were well past the "curfew."

 

They also have a zero tolerance policy towards cell phone use and boorish behavior by adults--although I've never seen either, their patrons generally seem to understand the rules and follow them.

 

I think that because they do have rules in place and actually enforce them, those who don't want to follow the rules don't patronize them and those who appreciate the civility those rules bring are loyal to them.

[K1200S]

I agree with the OP and hope the entry is sent to RCI. I do not understand why a parent will stop being a parent once on a cruise.

[CruisinGerman]

I don't understand the OP's point. Every mass market cruise line is quite similar in its demographics of passengers. Lots of people everywhere. Those brochures we all used to see with a handsome couple standing on a top deck overlooking the sea basically having the ship to themselves is pure marketing, non-existent and misleading.

 

I have no young children, and children on mass market lines do not phase me one way or another. If I wanted to be totally away from children, I would make sure I sail Silversea or Seabourn and the like. We actually like RCCL more than Silversea or Seabourn because we find the RCCL ships far more interesting and exciting, despite the masses of people everywhere.

 

Sorry about the child who ruined your drink in the hot tub. Yes the child was wrong, but it's probably just as bad to be drinking inside a hot tub or swimming pool in the first place. The child probably didn't know he was doing anything wrong, but an adult should know that drinking alcohol inside of a hot tub, apart from being anti-hygienic, could cause low blood pressure, sudden seizure, or heart attack.

 

The complaints about the children in the Concierge Lounge are exaggerated and overrated. At any given time when the Concierge Lounge is at its peak with about 60 guests, there are 0 - 4 children there. It's just not a big deal. There are many posts on this subject in which some people observe that some of the adults in the Concierge Lounge behave far far worse than the children.

 

You seem to want RCCL to change its product to make it more suitable for you. What you don't realize is that they have done exactly that. Try Celebrity or Azamara -- other RCCL products attracting different demographics than the mainstream product, but which happen to use different brand names.

 

Where RCCL has indeed failed and misled us, at least in my opinion, is the false impression it tries to evoke that cruising is this calm, tranquil experience (images of basking alone on the pool deck, no lines anywhere in their brochures, etc.). If they would be a bit more upfront about what mass market cruising really is, that would be fairer and much less misleading to its customers.

 

But if you saw brochure pictures of a pool deck that was more crowded than the New York City subway during rush hour, would you book?

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[spcopps]

Let me first say that my wife and I cruise with our three kids. Now let me say that the OP couldn't be more correct. I can't stand watching unsupervised kids screwing around with no parents in sight, or if they are in sight letting the kids behavior continue. Nothing is more frustrating to me then watching parents let borish behavior continue. Parents either are afraid to parent these days or are too lazy to parent these days.

 

I think it may be a little of both. The last morning of our cruise this past October we went into the dining room for breakfast before departing the ship. One of my 4 year old's was tired because he had to get up early and was whining in the dining room. I promptly "escorted" him out of the dining room and got down eye level with him and had a "sturn" talk. There was a gentlemen standing there who overheard it and said to me "I am happy to see some parent's still discipline their children". Point being, he could have been of the opposite opinion and I think some parent's worry about this too much. Luckily this time the talk worked (which is doesn't always LOL) because I couldn't take him back to the room for more appropriate discipline ;) since we were debarking the ship.

[wwcruisers]

To the OP: Hope you can look at the glass as half-full, lol. ;) Being Diamond on RC has at least gotten you to Elite (highest) status on Celebrity, which I see that you sail as well. After 10 years of sailing almost exclusively on RC, we find ourselves gravitating more and more to X. I don't dislike kids (I raised one), but I don't want to pay for things like Dreamworks characters, etc. I would rather spend my cruise dollars on improved food and service -- both of which I've found on X. Add all that to the fact that RC now has NO ships ships sailing anywhere on the West Coast, and the choice for us is pretty clear. :(

 

Hope you do send your letter to Richard Fain and Adam Goldstein, though -- they need to know that some of their customers are not happy with the recent changes to RC. Be sure to include a daytime phone number in your letter, as you may get a phone call back from the corporate offices. :cool:

[struther1]

Let me first say that my wife and I cruise with our three kids. Now let me say that the OP couldn't be more correct. I can't stand watching unsupervised kids screwing around with no parents in sight, or if they are in sight letting the kids behavior continue. Nothing is more frustrating to me then watching parents let borish behavior continue. Parents either are afraid to parent these days or are too lazy to parent these days. You better believe that if I see my kids doing cannonballs or pushing all the numbers on the elevator that we'll be going back to the room for a long talk. Luckily I've brought them up so they wouldn't consider to do something so stupid and rude.

 

Even though I am nowhere near Diamond status, I think that the CL should be only for adults. They earned the right to have somewhere they can go and relax where children are off limits. I don't think it's too much to ask that they have that area to unwind without having to worry about someone's unsupervised child.

 

If they set a goal that they want to reach Diamond status to enjoy some added perks only to have them taken away, then they should be upset.

 

I agree with the OP and hope the entry is sent to RCI. I do not understand why a parent will stop being a parent once on a cruise.

I think all you people who don't want children here or there or anywhere should go somewhere where that is how it is, that's not Royal Caribbean. My 3 kids are grown, we took them on many cruises when they were young and i think they were pretty well behaved (probably my parental blinders but who cares). Said it before and will say it again loud and drunken adults are way more annoying than any kid ever. And what I don't understand is why any of you let it bother you, it's not that big of a deal, kids will be kids. If they push every button on an elevator who cares, you're on vacation so it takes you an extra few minutes to get where you're going. This could be directed at many on the thread, you two were just the most recent I found.

[jst]

We to agree with Lawgirl:) like her we have mainly cruised RCI and are D+ older with no

children. We have nothing against kids on cruise ships, and a lot of the time it is the

parents who are really at fault.

 

Even Disney, and Carnival have areas on their ships that are stricktly for adults, and to them it means "NO KIDS ALLOWED" but it seems that RCI doesn't get the message!!!

Do we like to cruise with them...yes, but for the first time in several years we have cruises

booked on other lines. Should we move over to Celebrity, would love to try them out, but

to have the same type of cabin we usually cruise in it would cost us a lot more money, plus

no balcony discount and we would have to fly rather than be able to drive to Galveston.

We are going to do just that on a future cruise on a competitors cruise line, plus although

there is no Concierge service (except on Hal's top cabins) you can have liquor delivered to

your cabin via "Bon Voyage", something RCI used to allow till they changed the rules.

 

I did write to Goldstein and received the customary phone call wanting to know how I felt,

and like everyone else received the "cookie cutter" response that he figured the children were no problem on the ships, plus I was told the Concierges etc., would take care of things.

 

To the Captain on the Xmas cruise BRAVO!!!

[B-52]

Lawgirl,

 

A basic understanding of how cruise lines really operate might be helpful here.

 

Money is ALWAYS the main theme for us. Everything we do is aimed ONLY at making more of it. Money is the bottom line, the top line, and every line in between. For any large cruise line, making you - as an individual - happy is very low on our priority list. Making large demographic groups happy is another story.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI learned long ago to segment their demographics to their different brands in order to more successfully make more money. By tweaking the product - and the rules - they encourage different segments of society to move or stay on different brands. Currently RCCL is going down-market to capture more Middle American families and first timers. This move puts RCCL head to head with Carnival, by far the most financially successful cruise line in cruise history. Currently Celebrity and Azamara are moving up market to capture the upper tier of Middle America, hoping to compete with HAL and the smaller upscale lines.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI also learned long ago that first time cruisers spend far more money and complain far less on cruises than repeat cruisers do. There is currently a very large back-log of potential first time cruisers. So long as those people exist, your value as a repeat cruiser is very low. The cruise lines will give you plenty of inexpensive lip service about how much we value your loyalty - but we are not about to spend much money nor effort to bring back someone who will most likely not spend much money on our ships. We give priority to first-time families and children. That's where most of our profit is coming from.

 

You may not like to hear these facts. I certainly am not happy about them. But that is the financial model the major cruise line companies have adopted. I can only suggest that you might use this information to better plan your cruise vacations in order to be a willing participant rather than an unwilling victim.

 

If you want to be seen, considered, and treated as a valuable individual with specific needs, you really need to buy up and out of the Mass Market. In that case RCCL is not for you.

 

If you do not mind being treated as one small cow in an extremely large herd of cows, "Royal" as you call it, is for you. Personally I do not see anything Royal about it.

 

I am constantly amazed that people actually believe this company, or any large mega-company, actually cares about you, the individual.

It's their marketing angle that they use. The smiles, politeness, C&A bennies, everything is just a made up image!!!

And they are very successful at it! So don't expect them to change any time soon.

[ducklite]

If they push every button on an elevator who cares, you're on vacation so it takes you an extra few minutes to get where you're going. This could be directed at many on the thread, you two were just the most recent I found.

 

That is exactly the sentiment many of us have a problem with. It's obnoxious to let your kids do that. it's not amusing, it slows down the elevators. Just because I'm on vacation it doesn't mean I want the 'scenic ride" on the elevator. It's parents who allow (and encourage by not correcting) this type of behavior that many of us have a problem with. If you want to take the slow elevator ride with your kid, put an elevator in your own home and do it all day. But as long as you are in a public place, you are inconveniencing others for your own selfishness, and that's just flat out rude. Please, take the blinders off.

[ksuds]

Thanks OP!!!! We actually won't book the Allure or Oasis because they gear those ships toward kids and family experiences. I have no kids and really just prefer not to be outnumbered by them.

 

I also am one that enjoys the CL lounge because of its adult environment. We did a back to back in December and I had my first experience with kids in the lounge. With the limited space it is not fair that these kids get to be there and take up the very limited seats available.

[Big_G]

If you invest your life savings going on cruises I'm not going to feel sorry for ya.

 

That's the best snide comeback you have? How much have you invested in RCI?:cool:

[Cruzaholic41]

I am constantly amazed that people actually believe this company, or any large mega-company, actually cares about you, the individual.

 

As harsh as that sounds, you are correct. I always get a laugh out of the frequent RCI cruisers who actually think the staff really give a crap about them. Those people are all over these boards. They know every Captain, every Cruise Director, and every Concierge. Don't they realize they are buying that relationship?

 

I think all you people who don't want children here or there or anywhere should go somewhere where that is how it is, that's not Royal Caribbean.

 

I think this is a bit of an overreaction. Complaining about kids' behavior and cruises with an over abundance of kids does not equate not wanting to see kids at all. There's a big difference.

 

I don't understand the OP's point. Every mass market cruise line is quite similar in its demographics of passengers.

 

This comment I disagree with the most. The demographics are not the same on all mass-market lines. There is a big difference in demographics on Celebrity and HAL from RCI. And even within RCI itself, the demographics vary greatly between the big week long cruises like Oasis and Freedom from the slightly longer cruises on Vision and Radiance Class.

[ducklite]

I am constantly amazed that people actually believe this company, or any large mega-company, actually cares about you, the individual.

It's their marketing angle that they use. The smiles, politeness, C&A bennies, everything is just a made up image!!!

And they are very successful at it! So don't expect them to change any time soon.

 

Agreed. Unless enough people STOP CRUISING with RCCL and take their dollars elsewhere--and lets RCCL know that they have done so--things aren't going to change. RCCL could care less about the average cruiser who spends a couple grand a year, there are 10,000 right behind them. Now if 10,000 people boycotted RCCL, it would be more than a blip, and they would make changes. But a handful of people who complain but still sail them? Why should they care?

[struther1]

That is exactly the sentiment many of us have a problem with. It's obnoxious to let your kids do that. it's not amusing, it slows down the elevators. Just because I'm on vacation it doesn't mean I want the 'scenic ride" on the elevator. It's parents who allow (and encourage by not correcting) this type of behavior that many of us have a problem with. If you want to take the slow elevator ride with your kid, put an elevator in your own home and do it all day. But as long as you are in a public place, you are inconveniencing others for your own selfishness, and that's just flat out rude. Please, take the blinders off.

It's not rude it's kids being kids, assuming it was a kid and not some drunken Yahhoo, and it's no big deal. Personally, I don't use elevators ever on a cruise ship and I do sort of think its funny that people get worked up about it.

[Jumbiecruiser]

Who hopefully will politely tell you to mind your own business. Unless I missed it I have not seen a curfew on the specialty restaurants. If there is one then fine, otherwise I will be in there enjoying my vacation with my family. As I said before the door is in the same place as when you entered, no one is forcing you to be in the specialty restaurant. The same goes for the ship in general, no one is forcing you to be there.

 

Yes Royal Caribbean has set hours for which children under the age of 13 are able to dine in specialty dining. Learn something new every day don't you? Someone must have got up on the wrong side of the world this morning. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nikimouse]

its been a while since i looked at the rci boards, but one again I find certain cc members on here just rude

 

If a child did push a few buttoms in an elevator, why would you imediately judge them, their parents and their upbringing and assume they were unruly or had ruined your cruise? geeze I get that its annoying but thats life, kids are kids. My 18 month old cried because I wouldnt let him push the buttons, and the next time I used the elevator I let him because it was probably fascinateing to him and it didnt do any harm. Some people obviously bring up their kids like they are in the military but I dont and if anyone tells me I am too soft or relaxed then ill tell them to mind their own buisiness. If you dont like kids go to an adults only resort. There Ive had my rant and I dont think Rci is for me, they might be family friendly but their followers on cc are not and everytime I come on here im put off :eek:

[MichelleChell]

I have kids and I think that was a really good letter! Good job. I am glad you understand there are those parents that careless what there kids do and those of us that do.

I hope RCI starts thinking more about the benifits they have been taking away. I am not D nor D+ but that has to stink.

[Jumbiecruiser]

its been a while since i looked at the rci boards, but one again I find certain cc members on here just rude

 

If a child did push a few buttoms in an elevator, why would you imediately judge them, their parents and their upbringing and assume they were unruly or had ruined your cruise? geeze I get that its annoying but thats life, kids are kids. My 18 month old cried because I wouldnt let him push the buttons, and the next time I used the elevator I let him because it was probably fascinateing to him and it didnt do any harm. Some people obviously bring up their kids like they are in the military but I dont and if anyone tells me I am too soft or relaxed then ill tell them to mind their own buisiness. If you dont like kids go to an adults only resort. There Ive had my rant and I dont think Rci is for me, they might be family friendly but their followers on cc are not and everytime I come on here im put off :eek:

 

I hope that you did not allow your child to press the buttons if there were other people in the elevator with you. That would be rude.

[struther1]

its been a while since i looked at the rci boards, but one again I find certain cc members on here just rude

 

If a child did push a few buttoms in an elevator, why would you imediately judge them, their parents and their upbringing and assume they were unruly or had ruined your cruise? geeze I get that its annoying but thats life, kids are kids. My 18 month old cried because I wouldnt let him push the buttons, and the next time I used the elevator I let him because it was probably fascinateing to him and it didnt do any harm. Some people obviously bring up their kids like they are in the military but I dont and if anyone tells me I am too soft or relaxed then ill tell them to mind their own buisiness. If you dont like kids go to an adults only resort. There Ive had my rant and I dont think Rci is for me, they might be family friendly but their followers on cc are not and everytime I come on here im put off :eek:

Niki, it's not just about kids. There are a LOT of people on CC that are uptight about darn near EVERYTHING. Don't be put off on Royal, the ships (reality) are not like this board. Trust me if they were I could never have made it through 10 cruises without getting arrested.

[Big_G]

Lawgirl,

 

A basic understanding of how cruise lines really operate might be helpful here.

 

Money is ALWAYS the main theme for us. Everything we do is aimed ONLY at making more of it. Money is the bottom line, the top line, and every line in between. For any large cruise line, making you - as an individual - happy is very low on our priority list. Making large demographic groups happy is another story.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI learned long ago to segment their demographics to their different brands in order to more successfully make more money. By tweaking the product - and the rules - they encourage different segments of society to move or stay on different brands. Currently RCCL is going down-market to capture more Middle American families and first timers. This move puts RCCL head to head with Carnival, by far the most financially successful cruise line in cruise history. Currently Celebrity and Azamara are moving up market to capture the upper tier of Middle America, hoping to compete with HAL and the smaller upscale lines.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI also learned long ago that first time cruisers spend far more money and complain far less on cruises than repeat cruisers do. There is currently a very large back-log of potential first time cruisers. So long as those people exist, your value as a repeat cruiser is very low. The cruise lines will give you plenty of inexpensive lip service about how much we value your loyalty - but we are not about to spend much money nor effort to bring back someone who will most likely not spend much money on our ships. We give priority to first-time families and children. That's where most of our profit is coming from.

 

You may not like to hear these facts. I certainly am not happy about them. But that is the financial model the major cruise line companies have adopted. I can only suggest that you might use this information to better plan your cruise vacations in order to be a willing participant rather than an unwilling victim.

 

If you want to be seen, considered, and treated as a valuable individual with specific needs, you really need to buy up and out of the Mass Market. In that case RCCL is not for you.

 

If you do not mind being treated as one small cow in an extremely large herd of cows, "Royal" as you call it, is for you. Personally I do not see anything Royal about it.

 

Wow! You couldn't have been anymore patronistic. Thanks Dad.:cool:

[Ocean Boy]

I am constantly amazed that people actually believe this company, or any large mega-company, actually cares about you, the individual.

It's their marketing angle that they use. The smiles, politeness, C&A bennies, everything is just a made up image!!!

And they are very successful at it! So don't expect them to change any time soon.

 

BruceMazz and you are exaclty right. The cruise lines are very successful in making it seem like loyalty is a two way street and that the cruise line is "all about you" and that you are coming home when you step back aboard the ship which, people tend to forget, is RCI's ship and not your ship or my ship. Unfortunately, they are so good at producing the illusion that when they don't live up to it by doing things, like changing the loyalty programs, it creates a lot of grumbling and anamosity. So in some ways the cruise lines are almost a victim of their own excellent marketing strategies.

 

People need to drop the emotional attachment and start viewing their dealings with companies for exactly what they are.... business transactions. You pay money and the business provides a service. It is that simple. Allowing a business to tap into your emotional side simply gives them one more advantage, and places a huge disadvantage on the comsumer, in the business arrangement between you and them.

 

However, as long as RCI continues to provide a product that suites my needs at a pricepoint that I am willing to pay, I have no immediate plans to take my business elsewhere.

[setsail]

Yes Royal Caribbean has set hours for which children under the age of 13 are able to dine in specialty dining. Learn something new every day don't you? Someone must have got up on the wrong side of the world this morning. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Can you point me to those set hours for children dining in SR'S?

[ducklite]

It's not rude it's kids being kids, assuming it was a kid and not some drunken Yahhoo, and it's no big deal. Personally, I don't use elevators ever on a cruise ship and I do sort of think its funny that people get worked up about it.

 

Kid or drunken yahoo, why is it any different? Purposely inconveniencing others is rude, regardless of your age.

 

Some of us need to use elevators. I have asthma, and while I can go downstairs with no problem, climbing more than a floor or two doesn't work for me. I shouldn't have to take the scenic route because some parent wants to indulge their child's precocious behavior. Talk about raising entitled brats.