My public letter to Royal: why do you keep pushing me away?

[ducklite]

I don't disagree that what they are doing is probably best for RCCI financially, I just take objection with calling it a loyalty rewards program, and then really rewarding those who spend more, not those who are loyal.

 

If I buy a first class ticket, I better get my first class seat. If I'm simply upgraded to it due to having flown 150 flights last year, I'd understand if they told me I got bumped from first class because someone paid cash for the seat. After all, I had that same opportunity, I simply chose not to do so.

[teajak]

I will also stand back and let a disabled person go in the elevator before me. I have even asked others to wait and let someone in a scooter go in front of them.

 

I have seen disabled people waiting long periods of time for elevators, just like the rest of us.

 

I'm thankful I can still walk.

Thank you, just because we are disabled,(I must use a walker), not all of us are rude and pushy.I have waited more than 45 minutes for an elevator after muster drill beside a gentleman in a wheel chair, when the next elevator came i stood in the door and asked the new people to please allow him to enter as he had been waiting so long.It is very difficult when you don't have no choice but to wait but there is no excuse for rudeness.To the OP, great post, please send it by snail mail to the top gun.For all of her reasons is why we are returning to Celebrity.

[Pushka]

I think that more and more companies will abuse their loyal consumers because their history shows that they have made a deliberate effort to remain loyal and it will take something really significant to make them look elsewhere. So they keep niggling away and reducing the benefits, and until they have become seriously eroded, then the loyalty remains. Because attracting new customers is more beneficial to them, than the risk of losing the loyal ones. There will be a tipping point though.

 

There is a real freedom in losing your loyalty as it frees you up to make decisions based on the current reality and not a sense of loyalty and benefits that no longer exist. A sad fact of current company policy.

 

With regard to spend versus loyalty issue. Who is more valuable to a company. Someone who travels economy once every three weeks, or someone who flies every six months and flies first class?

[ducklite]

Excuse me.........where did I say a person with a hidden disability should take a back seat to a wheelchair. Anyone with a disability, whether hidden or obvious, IMA, should get priority.

 

 

Geeeeesh, take 3 deep breaths and stop being so rude.

 

You said:

I have even asked others to wait and let someone in a scooter go in front of them.

 

You are the one who said that you have told people they had to wait--how did you know that the person you told to wait didn't need that elevator as well?

 

I don't think it's rude, I think it's a reasonable question that you are avoiding answering.

[frito58]

How did you know they didn't have hidden disabilities? If you wish to wait yourself, that's your choice. But why should someone with a hidden disability who can't take stairs have to take a backseat to someone in a wheelchair if the ambulatory person was there first? What gives you the right to control elevator access?

 

I dont know that people with " hidden" disablities want special treatment , just act normal and be polite to everyone is all I ask . Why do people stand in the front of elevators and and act is if they are full:confused: I mean yes i need them I have very little feeling in my legs do to chemo and radiation it is what is . I dont need to be babied , I survive every day. But if people would just show a little consideration for their fellow man we could all get along .

[Aquahound]

Here's a thought: In order to maintain your current level, you'd have to cruise at least seven nights every year or 12 nights every 18 months or something along those lines.

 

It would reward the really loyal guests and thin the herd a bit at the same time. Pattern it after the Hilton or Marriott Rewards program.

 

This is just proof there is no perfect answer to loyalty programs. C&A gets changed all the time and no matter the change, someone always takes issue. I just roll with it because loyalty programs are 2nd priority to my vacation enjoyment.

[ducklite]

I dont know that people with " hidden" disablities want special treatment , just act normal and be polite to everyone is all I ask . Why do people stand in the front of elevators and and act is if they are full:confused: I mean yes i need them I have very little feeling in my legs do to chemo and radiation it is what is . I dont need to be babied , I survive every day. But if people would just show a little consideration for their fellow man we could all get along .

 

I agree. My point is that for someone to be told they can't enter an elevator they've been waiting for because someone who showed up 15 minutes later in wheelchair should go first is absurd. If the person in the wheelchair was there first, by all means they should go first. But if others have been waiting longer, they should wait their turn and not expect priority simply because they use a mobility device.

[teajak]

I must say I take a completely different opinion on this. I am more of a stairs person but if someone is disabled for whatever reason they are more than welcome to go in front of me everytime. I dread the day I may be in that situation so for me to give up a spot on the elevator when I am perfectly capable of taking the stairs is fine by me. I can understand what your point was but it truly did not come across that way.

My aunt in her 80"s needed a wheel chair, at Disney this able bodied couple kept returning to the site reserved for wheel chairs and the attendant kept asking them to leave, the lady turned to my Aunt and said,"I don't see what is so special about wheel chairs anyway." My Aunt very nicely told her,"Maam I will trade you my wheel chair for your legs any day you choose." Sorry off topic,but I have never forgotten that.

[frito58]

My aunt in her 80"s needed a wheel chair, at Disney this able bodied couple kept returning to the site reserved for wheel chairs and the attendant kept asking them to leave, the lady turned to my Aunt and said,"I don't see what is so special about wheel chairs anyway." My Aunt very nicely told her,"Maam I will trade you my wheel chair for your legs any day you choose." Sorry off topic,but I have never forgotten that.

 

I'm sure she would , my dad had both of his amputaed because of sugar. So He never had much fun using his scooter but it was nice thing to see him ride around the small town they lived , so much they had to put a big flag on the back so people would see him LOL.

[Mary521]

RCI would have to make some major changes to what is available for people who like being active before they will get me back on Celebrity.

 

I agree, we tried celebrity. You cannot just suggest to the OP to try lines like X. It had its plus's, but it had little to do as far as activities go. We are a couple in our early 30's without kids. We tried celebrity once and we felt like the kids on board, and had trouble finding anyone even within 10 yrs of our age. We love chatting and making new friends with ppl of all ages, but it is nice to find some ppl with some similar interests as us.

 

I agree with the OP. Yes, mail and email that letter! I have unfortunately found myself frustrated a lot more often with the parenting (or lack thereof) going on lately everywhere in public, not just cruise ships. It has become more of a treat to see a child behaving while out anywhere these days. I have also tried speaking up politely as some of you suggested. This only angers the parents who defend their naughty kids and how they should not be told how to parent. So, i try my best to ignore the ignorant parents and their naughty children. I feel bad for all the parents who teach their children how to act in public, these messages are not for you.

 

I can't speak on the rcci c&a rewards, as we are still gold. I will say from reading cc, we have no reason to be loyal to anyone. We are booked on a trip leaving later this month and will have a wonderful time. I focus on ports and where do we want to go. You'll find us in the solarium pool, late seating, and late shows. ;)

[mjldvlks]

1. We are "empty nesters" -- we only cruised once with one of our kids -- he was 24 at the time. Don't recall any complaints about his behavior. Never caught him punching all of the keys on the elevator, but if he had I would have definitely told him it was a no-no.

 

2. If I had younger kids, I would do my best to maintain discipline. It is not right or proper to allow kids to be rude annoying, etc.

 

3. Having been there and done that, however, I sympathize with parents who are trying and many times try to encourage them and talk to the kids to keep them occupied for a few seconds. Some of the most enjoyable conversations I have ever had have been with 3-5 year olds.

 

4. I LIKE having kids around. True there are some minor annoyances, but on the whole they make me smile and remind me that life goes on.

 

5. Tried Celebrity once -- didn't care for it. Very limited activities by unenthusiastic staff and the overall service was poor. Was not on Solstice class though and had not yet reached Diamond/Elite status at that time. May feel differently about newer ship or my now exalted status. Would like to try other cruise lines for comparison, but I am fairly happy with RCI.

 

6. To whoever said that the cruise line employees don't care about the individual, I disagree to some extent. I work in a service oriented business, and I care how my customers feel. They pay my bills. But at the bottom line, it IS a business and I know I cannot make everybody happy. But I do listen to customers and am concerned about how they feel.

 

7. On the whole, I am pleased with the RCI product and plan to continue to patronize RCI. But that doesn't mean I won't let them know my preferences. How else are they going to make informed decisions regarding the product they provide? But I would think the best places to make those desires known is in comment cards, letters to the company, and the like. I doubt this thread will have much impact. Ultimately, the cruise line has to decided the policies that best serve its bottom line. Assuming they have done that, The I have to decide if I like the product enought to buy it. Its called the free market, baby.

[Wilda]

You said her points were reasonable but I think you're missing the point. It wouldn't take much to keep childless longtime cruisers happy. They're not asking for much. The mass market excuse is a manufactured excuse by the "It's my vacation and I'll do what I want crowd" and not the cruiselines. The age old 'things change' is a joke when you have people who have literally invested life savings in a company only to be ignored.

 

Things do change all the time...people taking it as a personal insult is the problem. RCI changes their loyalty program... contrary to what you might think they didn't sit up half the night figuring out a way to tick YOU off. Like I said about 100 posts ago...it is not personal but people take it that way.

 

And how is RCI ignoring people? While onboard does no one serve them a drink, make the bed, provide fresh towels?

[travelberlin]

Lawgirl did you send your letter to RCI? It would be interesting to know their answer, especially in relation to their loyalty program :)

[Cruising89143]

I am a diamond member and have almost exclusively cruised on RCCI. My main issue with RCCI's approach to their loyalty program is it's lost it's value due to sheer volumes of people reaching the status levels (so now Diamond members can't use the Concierge Club--), and they allow suite guests access--so instead rewarding how much people spend on any given cruise, rather than reward those who are return customers. In any event, this has not changed the fact that I like cruising on RCCI, and I don't cruise RCCI because of the benefits. And, I can honestly say that while I have encountered cruises with some ill behaved children, by far the worst cruises I experienced were a 10 day Panama Canal, and a 5 day "spring break" cruise, where many of the "seniors" as well as the "young adults" were the rudest I had ever encountered. I don't know that there is any vacation where you can avoid rude or ill behaved people, unless you find a private island somewhere, and with about 3000 people on any given ship, you are bound to encounter some along the way.....young and old alike :mad:

 

Actually the CL was originally designed for suite guests. They later added Diamond and then D+ once they added that tier to C&A. So it makes sense that if space becomes an issue, C&A members go before suite guests.

[Phillies14]

I have been holding this in and just have to get it out to my fellow CC posters (with full knowledge that I will be lambasted by some of you).

 

I have been loyal to Royal despite their every attempt to alienate my kind: a childless couple who want a nice cruise and the benefits of repeat customer appreciation.

 

You see, DH and I don't have children and don't particularly want to have tons of kids on our vacation. Yet, we like to cruise and can't afford to book ultra luxury or adults only cruises.

 

Yes, there are very well behaved children out there. But even those of you who parent such children must admit that there are also numerous kids whose parents let them run amuck on a cruise.

 

So we follow the rules: we take long itineraries on the off season, avoiding Holidays, etc. (except for the upcoming Allure trip, which I am doing just to see the ship). We go to the solarium, choose late seating, go to only late night shows.

 

Even so... There was the cruise where the kid cannonballed into the HOT TUB knocking over my $8 drink while dad told him he was cute. The kid who threw ice down from above while I was on my balcony. The one who thought it was fun to run back and forth between his inside cabin and his parents balcony room slamming doors. (yes, his parents left two elementary aged kids alone in the inside cabin while they enjoyed the balcony cabin).U

 

So, we book suites... At least we get some quiet time in the Conceirge Lounge. No more as most of you know. Yes, I like the free drinks. But not as much as I like (or used to like) having grown-up conversations. A place where we met the same adults every night to make new friends, where they had my favorite cocktail waiting...without worrying about kids running around . It is just a different atmosphere without kids.

 

Here's my main point AND my weariness with Royal. I play by your Rules. When booking a cruise, I don't shop Princess or NCI, I go to Royal. Why? I like your product, but you also lured me in with your programs and insincere promises of benefits. So if I am loyal, why do you keep changing your rules?

 

First, I buy stock because I get a shareholders discount. Whoops, sorry we are changing that rule so you can't combine it with other discounts and it is now worthless (except for the stock which plummeted).

 

Next, I reach Diamond only in time to have the Conceierge Privileges taken away.

 

Now, We are close to D+... Too bad, we're making your nightly respite cocktail hour into a family friendly soda fest.

 

So my years of loyalty, my tens of thousands of vacation dollars devoted to Royal mean this little.

 

Here's the thing.. I can't instantly become Diamond or Diamond Plus. It takes years, so when making my choice of cruiselines, i HAVE to rely upon what yoy say your benefits are. I booked all these cruises based upon what I expected to get in return. It is unfair to keep changing these rules. You suck me in, then water down your benefits.

 

Yes, I can start over with some other line and I will start shopping around. But what a shame - what a spit in the face to loyal customers - that I should have to do so.

 

When will they stop changing the Rules and realize that it takes all types (including us with no kids) to fill a ship.

 

OK, start lambasting me....

I hear what your saying and I do sympathise with you BUT.....Am a D+ here and I still think RC is very very loyal to their repeat cruisers and treat us exceptionally well. The concierge lounge I agree 100% should still be an adults only venue regardless if your D+ or a suite guest or both. Truly enjoy the adult atmosphere there and the lively adult conversation. As far as the rest of the ship I honestly make each and every cruise a new and wonderful experience no matter what situations arise. As far as children, well they just haven't played a part in any of the cruises I have been on. Maybe I've just been lucky not to encounter any ill behaved children so far. Have encountered ill behaved parents and adults and do my best to hit the ignore button if at all possible. So I'm more of a go with the flow kind of soul and wish you many more happy cruises with RC....K.O. Near Philly;):)

[poolreader]

WOW! Thank you OP, I agree with you and realize the examples about children were only your attempt to say you followed RCI rules. It was funny to see this turn into a bad behaved vs well behaved kids and that morph into wheelchairs and elevators.

So in line for what this has become, I have decided to ignore the kids unless the behavior is dangerous to someone, they are damaging the ship, or abusive to the child (like the parent who insisted his 10 year old son stay in the smoke filled piano bar after the pianist told him the material was going to be adult now that it was midnight). Then I will find, or use the house phone to call, a ships representative.

I will politely remind people who walk up to an elevator and try to push in (when people are already standing there in front of the elevators) that there is a line, because you can not tell by looking who really needs the elevator.

I will enjoy my cruise on any line at any time.

[lv2cruisgrl]

I agree for all the same reasons and I am sick of it and we are not cruising this year ! I will take my $$ elsewhere....

[ducklite]

Actually the CL was originally designed for suite guests. They later added Diamond and then D+ once they added that tier to C&A. So it makes sense that if space becomes an issue, C&A members go before suite guests.

 

Marriott's program works this way:

 

Suite guests (ie club floor guests) always get lounge access. Platinum also always get lounge access. (you need to stay 75 nights each year to maintain that level, it's not lifetime) Gold guests get lounge access space permitting. If the club floor is sold out and there are a lot of platinum's, golds will not be granted access. You find out when you check in.

 

It seems that's the logical way to manage it.

[Cruising89143]

Lawgirl,

 

A basic understanding of how cruise lines really operate might be helpful here.

 

Money is ALWAYS the main theme for us. Everything we do is aimed ONLY at making more of it. Money is the bottom line, the top line, and every line in between. For any large cruise line, making you - as an individual - happy is very low on our priority list. Making large demographic groups happy is another story.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI learned long ago to segment their demographics to their different brands in order to more successfully make more money. By tweaking the product - and the rules - they encourage different segments of society to move or stay on different brands. Currently RCCL is going down-market to capture more Middle American families and first timers. This move puts RCCL head to head with Carnival, by far the most financially successful cruise line in cruise history. Currently Celebrity and Azamara are moving up market to capture the upper tier of Middle America, hoping to compete with HAL and the smaller upscale lines.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI also learned long ago that first time cruisers spend far more money and complain far less on cruises than repeat cruisers do. There is currently a very large back-log of potential first time cruisers. So long as those people exist, your value as a repeat cruiser is very low. The cruise lines will give you plenty of inexpensive lip service about how much we value your loyalty - but we are not about to spend much money nor effort to bring back someone who will most likely not spend much money on our ships. We give priority to first-time families and children. That's where most of our profit is coming from.

 

You may not like to hear these facts. I certainly am not happy about them. But that is the financial model the major cruise line companies have adopted. I can only suggest that you might use this information to better plan your cruise vacations in order to be a willing participant rather than an unwilling victim.

 

If you want to be seen, considered, and treated as a valuable individual with specific needs, you really need to buy up and out of the Mass Market. In that case RCCL is not for you.

 

If you do not mind being treated as one small cow in an extremely large herd of cows, "Royal" as you call it, is for you. Personally I do not see anything Royal about it.

 

 

This is a very good post and IMHO hits the nail on the head.

[Big_G]

Things do change all the time...people taking it as a personal insult is the problem. RCI changes their loyalty program... contrary to what you might think they didn't sit up half the night figuring out a way to tick YOU off. Like I said about 100 posts ago...it is not personal but people take it that way.

 

And how is RCI ignoring people? While onboard does no one serve them a drink, make the bed, provide fresh towels?

 

How did you jump from C&A benefits to bartender and cabin steward service?:confused:

[Tralynn]

While I agree that all cruiselines have to market to everyone, including families with children to fill their cruises (yes, I have kids and sometimes they cruise too), there is still never an excuse for why the cruiseline does not enforce their own rules.

 

Royal has a curfew for kids after a certain time, only to find young pre-teens, teens, and even a few really young kids running up and down the halls at all hours of the night, not to mention their fun elevator late night games. Just ENFORCE THE RULES.

 

They have rules against children being in the Adult Only areas of the ship, only to find the adult hot tub always loaded with preteens at all hours of the day. Just ENFORCE THE RULES.

 

As far as C&A benefits go, I'm sure they have to change the rules with the changing times, however maybe they could at least find a better way of doing so. Ex. Why not have an early "soda" hour for family time in the Lounge, and have it open later to only adults? That's a compromise. They just need to quit throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and think outside the box. It's just not smart to alienate loyal customers when widening your market.

 

These are just a few examples, but really if the cruiselines would simply enforce their own rules, and keep in mind prevouse promises made, maybe it would be a better cruising experience for ALL. JMHO

[honeybee85]

And furthermore, I'll match my manners and those of my kids with you and yours anytime.

 

If they have the same sort of manners you seem to have, I don't think they have a chance.

 

I am glad your world is different than mine. I seriously hope you were not such a bother when you were a child because children seem to be nothing but a problem for you. Or even better did your parents leave you at home so you were out of the way?

 

I will say this. When I was a kid, I was well behaved. Why? Because if I wasn't, my mother would have turned me around and gone right back down to the cabin and we would have had dinner there. Without toys or TV. I wasn't allowed to throw tantrums in public. As a result, I do not tolerate parents that let their children act like heathen in public when there is another option: remove them from the situation.

[Aquahound]

The solarium is for ADULTS ONLY. There needs to be a large sign as you enter the area.

 

Like this? These are on Oasis Class. They should put them on all ships in the Solariums.

 

[ducklite]

"Simply because they use a mobility device?" I guess you were trying to make a point but I think you crossed over into heartless while doing so.

 

So those with hidden disabilities should have their needs be any less valid simply because they don't use a mobility device? Is it a double standard?

[Big_G]

You said:

 

 

You are the one who said that you have told people they had to wait--how did you know that the person you told to wait didn't need that elevator as well?

 

I don't think it's rude, I think it's a reasonable question that you are avoiding answering.

 

Ducklite,

You're looking for an argument that's not there. I read the post and the person said they would 'ask' others to wait. I've done it myself by just saying the the word 'wheelchair' if no one realized a wheelchair person was waiting. Usually people cordially wait. You have to understand that people in wheelchairs have to wait for an elevator that's almost empty before getting on. That can cause some consternation for the wheelchair bound while on a cruise ship. I'm sympathetic to those that have hidden disabilities but if you can't criticize someone for not seeing it.