Anyone ever removed the auto tip

[NMLady]

To stop people , misguiding the thread , and hopefully get an answer to the question I asked 'if anyone ever had done it, and what there experience was'

 

Didn't really want all the moral high ground folk telling me how hard done to the back room staff are ! ( on that note are people seriously telling me the back room staff are going over and above for my benefit , or because it's there job ?! )

 

MY opinion is the charges should be built in the cost of the trip if that's what they are , charges and no option to remove . Grats / tips should always be a choice to the people who have personal effect on my trip .

 

Now back to my original question please , surely some folk have done it , come on be brave and talk to me :-)

 

If the Daily Service Charge (which is NOT a tip but is similar to US Hotel's resort charge) were to be built into the fare that would result in higher tax on the fare, higher commission fees based on the fare, etc.

[bobhsv]

WHEN IN ROME.

That's all I feel the need to say.

 

Well said, and exactly our thoughts too. Being aussies, tipping is alien to us, but we always respect the cultures of other lands. Just be careful what you wish for though....in the past some aussies used to remove the grats once onboard. It was a common thing to do, but now, most if not all, cruises from Oz have the grats/tipping included in the initial purchase price of the cruise. On our last cruise all the aussies had prepaid for this service, but those cruising from overseas still had them added on daily. We now do not have a choice but to pay upfront. I am happy with this.

Again, careful what you wish for....as the cruise lines could enforce this in your country too.:)

[sparks1093]

Can I have my THEPS removed ????

 

Only under general anesthesa:cool:.

[softsands]

That's a complete myth. The word "tips" is not derived from "to insure prompt service".

 

Give it a moment's thought...a tip is normally offered after the service has been performed. How can it "insure prompt service" when it's given afterwards?

 

NCL correctly calls it a service charge. A tip is something you offer above the service charge.

 

Whether TIPS is an acronym for that or not, in the service industry, while a tip may be awarded afterwards, it is certainly assumed to be coming, hence the need to be nice to the Customer from the start.

[04cruises]

I just came back from from Princess and had a long talk about this subject with the hotel managaer. Princess and NCL - have the auto tip. We all know it, deal with it.

 

But a word to the wise - The people who remove the auto tip, early in a cruise, your NAME and CABIN # are placed on a list for all staff to see. You have been placed on a black ball list. This is known and accepted by the staff and managment of the ship, you should expect the level of service for someone who pays NOTHING and will recieve NOTHING or the absolute minimum they must do to insure they don't get in too much trouble.

 

Let's sum it this way - if you can;t pay the $12 a day or $74 for a week, what are you doing on the ship to begin with? For you to throw out the you can't afford it, you knew about it before you got there.

 

The Hotel Manager said that this removal is found in the over 65 demo mostly. There is some beleif that since you don;t get the envelopes anymore there is no "guilt" that you would feel by not tipping your steward. The auto tip was to insure you didn;t have to worry about this.

 

I find it hard to beleive that we all have this conversation over $74pp. Wouldn;t you think it would be over the 4K I spent on just getting to the ship in 30 days?

 

If a company allows a Blackball list,doesn't it make you wonder what is going to happen to your food or toothbrush if you complain early in a cruise about a employee? Kind of a catch22.

[stephenandrew]

If you like this idea (and I don't) why would you restrict it Haven passengers? Why not all suite passengers?

 

Here's why I don't like the idea. There is a wide range of usage of butler and concierge services by suite passengers. Some (like us) use their services very little, if at all. Why should we pay the same in "tips" (or service charges) as passengers who are hosting parties in their suite or getting frequent room service delivery of meals, or having the concierge make a lot of dinner reservations for them?

 

If you're staying in a hotel that has a concierge, but never use the concierge's services, you don't tip. If the concierge gets you theater tickets or makes dinner reservations for you, then you tip. It's the same concept in NCL's suites. Tipping should reflect the services performed.

 

All passengers eat, all passengers have their rooms cleaned. That's why all passengers are assessed a service charge for the dining room staff, room stewards and behind the scenes support crew.

 

 

A couple of thoughts---first, I mentioned the Haven becasue I assumed that only those folks had access to the Butler and Concierge. If all suite passengers do, then, yes my question would be applicable to them as well. Second, I see your point regarding the usage of the butler/concierge---makes sense. I would only add, that our butler provided us with some services regardless if we asked for them, e.g. bringing us end of day snacks for example, so in that regard, the butlers provide service too everyone. And, yes, while you are correct, everyone does eat and have their room cleaned (hence the reason for the service charge), I think some folks are far less demanding than others with regard to the dining room staff and steward's time. Some folks are very tidy, and their room may only take a moment to clean; some folks are easy to please at dinner, and don't make a fuss, or run the wait staff back and forth to bring multiple entree's (some might even only eat in the buffet and make less use of the wait staff's time), etc. My point is that while we all use thier services, we do not use them equally. Having said this, I still see your point--totally sensible. I believe, and I may be mistaken, that another line does charge its suite passengers a higher DSC to reflect the usage of a butler--I am thinking it is HAL. I am sure someone can correct me if I am wrong.

[bplazo]

Why do all the cheap people want to remove tips and tip those who deserve it. OMG, seriously just leave the auto tip on and tip above that if someone does a great job. IMHO, the amount suggested is the least amount you should tip for any kind of service that you receive on the ship for a week.

[njhorseman]

Whether TIPS is an acronym for that or not, in the service industry, while a tip may be awarded afterwards, it is certainly assumed to be coming, hence the need to be nice to the Customer from the start.

 

Some people tip a lot more than others, so how does the service provider know if they're going to get a dollar or ten dollars? Or nothing, for that matter? The dollar might be insulting, the ten very generous.

 

But the most important point is that the service provider is supposed to be nice to the customer regardless. Most people don't earn tips on their jobs. Does that mean they don't have to treat customers nicely?

[njhorseman]

A couple of thoughts---first, I mentioned the Haven becasue I assumed that only those folks had access to the Butler and Concierge. If all suite passengers do, then, yes my question would be applicable to them as well. Second, I see your point regarding the usage of the butler/concierge---makes sense. I would only add, that our butler provided us with some services regardless if we asked for them, e.g. bringing us end of day snacks for example, so in that regard, the butlers provide service too everyone. And, yes, while you are correct, everyone does eat and have their room cleaned (hence the reason for the service charge), I think some folks are far less demanding than others with regard to the dining room staff and steward's time. Some folks are very tidy, and their room may only take a moment to clean; some folks are easy to please at dinner, and don't make a fuss, or run the wait staff back and forth to bring multiple entree's (some might even only eat in the buffet and make less use of the wait staff's time), etc. My point is that while we all use thier services, we do not use them equally. Having said this, I still see your point--totally sensible. I believe, and I may be mistaken, that another line does charge its suite passengers a higher DSC to reflect the usage of a butler--I am thinking it is HAL. I am sure someone can correct me if I am wrong.

 

Yes, all NCL suite passengers get butler and concierge services, not just Haven passengers.

 

Passengers such as ourselves who are likely to make few or no requests of the butler or concierge should be allowed to tip only minimally, while those who utilize their services more heavily should tip accordingly. If the only service I receive from the butler is the daily snack delivery, should the tip be higher than what I would give a room service waiter who delivered coffee to me once every morning of the cruise? If all the concierge does is escort us on and off the ship on embarkation and disembarkation days, should he be getting anything more than a small tip?

 

My cabin may be neat, but the bathroom still has to be cleaned, the bed made, the towels changed, the supplies refilled, the carpet vacuumed, twice very day.

 

We're easy to please in the dining room, but we still eat three times a day (at least!) every day. The buffet staff also shares in the service charge pool...in fact if you look carefully, you'll see wait staff from the dining rooms working there during breakfast and lunch. Even if you're eating in the buffet, there are crew cleaning tables, working on the buffet line, helping passengers who need assistance to carry their plates.

 

The point is the regular level of service received from the regular cabin and dining room crew even by an easy to please, neat, non-demanding passenger is at a much higher level than that received from the butler and concierge if you make little or no use of their services.

[bobbyleduck]

If the Daily Service Charge (which is NOT a tip but is similar to US Hotel's resort charge) were to be built into the fare that would result in higher tax on the fare, higher commission fees based on the fare, etc.

 

No, it wouldn't. Haven't you noticed that the tax amount is the same, no matter what cabin, or what price you pay for a particular cabin. Example: The tax for our 11 day cruise, later this year, is $121.88 per person, and it doesn't matter what the fare is. It was $121.88 added to the $699 fare, and it is $121.88 now that the fare for the same cabin is $769. So, add $84 of service charge for seven days, or $132 per person for 11 days, but it won't have any affect on the taxes.

[genealogyfan]

I got on the Norwegian Cruise line section for another reason and saw a message about tipping, so replied about tipping (not about the specific cruise line).

 

Yes I know what cruise line I was on - Royal Caribbean - 3 day cruise in Florida - we had a certain amount of a service charge added on per day (can't remember but it was a set amount for the steward, waiter). we had the option to remove the automatic tip and pay ourselves!

 

I never used the waiters in the sit down restaurant, which I remember it was written that's what part of the tip was for - so why give them a tip if I never used them. I gave a generous tip to the cabin steward.

[JMHAM1]

Some people tip a lot more than others, so how does the service provider know if they're going to get a dollar or ten dollars? Or nothing, for that matter? The dollar might be insulting, the ten very generous.

 

But the most important point is that the service provider is supposed to be nice to the customer regardless. Most people don't earn tips on their jobs. Does that mean they don't have to treat customers nicely?

 

During college, I worked in the service industry and it NEVER failed that the people who ran you the most were the ones that left $1 as a tip regardless of the amount of the bill. My work ethic caused me to always deliver great service to everyone but it is hard especially when you saw those repeat $1 customers. I feel I am a generous tipoer and if there is ever anything amiss, I give folks the opportunity to correct the problem. $12 p/p is really not alot at all!

[Bostoncruiser35]

NCLs "auto tip" as you worded it, is not a tip at all. I have heard it is just part of thier salaries ( from reading other posts) I agree you should be able to tip based on your own feelings, but again this is not a tip. We choose tip over the auto for those who provide excellent service. Just so you know before you make the decision.

[sdmike]

No, it wouldn't. Haven't you noticed that the tax amount is the same, no matter what cabin, or what price you pay for a particular cabin. Example: The tax for our 11 day cruise, later this year, is $121.88 per person, and it doesn't matter what the fare is. It was $121.88 added to the $699 fare, and it is $121.88 now that the fare for the same cabin is $769. So, add $84 of service charge for seven days, or $132 per person for 11 days, but it won't have any affect on the taxes.

 

It might avoid payroll taxes, which would require fares to go up more than the $12. Not sure if that would apply to foreign flagged ships, but with NCL corporate offices in the US it might apply.

[boaterette]

Well I have removed mine. I received the worst service in over 20 cruises. Both by the cabin steward and the mdr staff. I tried to get the service corrected but nothing changed. So I removed them. They asked if I wanted the hotel manager to call me and I said I did. In three days he or she never called. I didn't have any problems removing them at all.

[bobbyleduck]

It might avoid payroll taxes, which would require fares to go up more than the $12. Not sure if that would apply to foreign flagged ships, but with NCL corporate offices in the US it might apply.

 

Cruise ship employees don't have taxes withheld on their income, federal, state, social security or taxes for another country. It has to do with the registry of the ship.

 

Bob

[smeyer418]

the US government charges a tax on every cruise sold in the US for a US embarkation or final port. Its small 1/4 of 1% but generally this added into the fare. for cruises that leave from the US there are also DHS fees that attach and are listed as taxes and fees. Some countries also charge some value added taxes to cruises. Most of the things shown as taxes are government(or quasi government) charges which most cruises lines charge per person...and that is why they are the same...

[megaelch]

I feel the service charges ( which in my case add up to 48 USD a day with 2 children ) should be included and shown in the cruise price from the very beginning. Excluding them and hiding them in the fineprint is used to artificially lower the advertised fares and not everyone does read all the fineprint !

I compare it to air fares where the so called " fuel surcharges " are used to hide the real fares .

 

And yes i did remove parts of the surcharge when i did not get the service i expected. On the other hand i do tip the room stewards and waiters / bar staff generously in addition to the service charges when i have a pleasant experience !

[CruisinChris412]

With only 2 cruises under my belt, I've accepted service charges or automatic tips as part of the cruising scene.

 

Some people make comments about like you're on some power trip. If you have a bad experience at a restaurant on land, do you tell the manager to take money out of their paycheck? That's what you're doing when you take the DSC away. If some worker isn't quite doing their job, then I'm going to complain. I'm not going to take their earnings away. Yes I might tip less or not at all in extreme circumstances, but the DSC is not a tip; it's a fee. I have to trust that the management will follow through on resolving the issue, which could very well mean firing the employee

 

Maybe it's easier to grasp if you view it as a per person fee. If you have a crappy time in a port, do you demand to have the cost of the port fees reimbursed?

[sparks1093]

Well I have removed mine. I received the worst service in over 20 cruises. Both by the cabin steward and the mdr staff. I tried to get the service corrected but nothing changed. So I removed them. They asked if I wanted the hotel manager to call me and I said I did. In three days he or she never called. I didn't have any problems removing them at all.

 

I don't think anyone would have a problem with this- you experienced substandard service, reported it and gave NCL the opportunity to fix it, and when it wasn't fixed you removed the DSC. That is the process.

 

What people take exception to is arbitrarily removing the DSC for a non-service related issue (I'm not used to tipping, it's too much money for all of us on our tight budget, I want to tip in person, the planet's aren't aligned the right way).

[Raleigh Traveler]

What a mess. I think a lot of people need a cruise so they can chill out. I feel for the OP as no one ever , out of 95+ posts answered the question. One mentioned an aunt and two said yes but never said which cruise line. Then it became a drawn out soap box derby.

We will take our 4th NCL cruise in April and have always paid the “service charge”. That is not to say that there are not issues with how NCL communicates and handles the charge and I think this leads to a lot of the debate. There are a number of inconsistencies and drops on this subject. For fun I went through the NCL website and the process of booking a cruise. I also looked back at all my emails with our PCC for the upcoming cruise. This is what I found.

1. The service charge is not obvious, you have to really search for it on the website. You will not likely stumble upon it.

2. During the booking process it is not mentioned until the final page where you input your CC info to actually book. Then it is in the form of being able to pre-pay this charge. It you click or the “Why is there a service charge” you find that it is called discretionary service charge that is automatically added and that it goes to the staff. Two problems; they call it discretionary which means it is up to the discretion of the cruiser. Second, they call it a service charge but by their definition it is tips and gratuity.

3. During process of booking with my PCC the SC was never mentioned until I read it at the bottom of the reservation confirmation. The only time the PCC mentioned the charge was it reference to obc, the PCC stating it can be used for anything “excluding tips and gratuity”, meaning the service charge.

We need to cut the opinions. By NCL’s statements and descriptions this “service charge” is in fact, tips and gratuity, maybe the baseline, but still, tips and gratuity. Second, by their own description, it is discretionary which means that cruisers should have the right to adjust without hassle whether its justified or not. Lastly, if it is a required charge then it should be mentioned earlier in the booking process. Even the possible fuel surcharge is stated on every page of the booking process.

[fergusonvt]

When I booked my first cruise for Jan/2011 in July of 2010 the PCC that I got when I called to book told me upfront about the charge. I do agree it isn't readily apparent when booking online.

[che5904]

What a mess. I think a lot of people need a cruise so they can chill out. I feel for the OP as no one ever , out of 95+ posts answered the question. One mentioned an aunt and two said yes but never said which cruise line. Then it became a drawn out soap box derby.

We will take our 4th NCL cruise in April and have always paid the “service charge”. That is not to say that there are not issues with how NCL communicates and handles the charge and I think this leads to a lot of the debate. There are a number of inconsistencies and drops on this subject. For fun I went through the NCL website and the process of booking a cruise. I also looked back at all my emails with our PCC for the upcoming cruise. This is what I found.

1. The service charge is not obvious, you have to really search for it on the website. You will not likely stumble upon it.

2. During the booking process it is not mentioned until the final page where you input your CC info to actually book. Then it is in the form of being able to pre-pay this charge. It you click or the “Why is there a service charge” you find that it is called discretionary service charge that is automatically added and that it goes to the staff. Two problems; they call it discretionary which means it is up to the discretion of the cruiser. Second, they call it a service charge but by their definition it is tips and gratuity.

3. During process of booking with my PCC the SC was never mentioned until I read it at the bottom of the reservation confirmation. The only time the PCC mentioned the charge was it reference to obc, the PCC stating it can be used for anything “excluding tips and gratuity”, meaning the service charge.

We need to cut the opinions. By NCL’s statements and descriptions this “service charge” is in fact, tips and gratuity, maybe the baseline, but still, tips and gratuity. Second, by their own description, it is discretionary which means that cruisers should have the right to adjust without hassle whether its justified or not. Lastly, if it is a required charge then it should be mentioned earlier in the booking process. Even the possible fuel surcharge is stated on every page of the booking process.

 

Actually I did answer the original question with a "no".

 

I agree with a lot of what you post here. The part I will slightly disagree with is that this is "in fact a tip or gratuity" (in whole). NCL states regarding the DSC "Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports". I have worked for many companies that had tipping (individual and pooled) but never have my tips went into a social type fund for "incentive programs". NCL doesn't elaborate on that but IMO that is programs with bonuses, cash or otherwise, to enhance either team work, dedication or exemplary service of some sort.

[Scott2.0]

We need to cut the opinions. By NCL’s statements and descriptions this “service charge” is in fact, tips and gratuity, maybe the baseline, but still, tips and gratuity. Second, by their own description, it is discretionary which means that cruisers should have the right to adjust without hassle whether its justified or not.

 

Please post the link to where you've seen it referred to as discretionary. Thanks in advance.

[DMH15]

Please post the link to where you've seen it referred to as discretionary. Thanks in advance.

 

I am not Raleigh, but I believe tips are discretionary. DSC is not. I remember reading that.

 

I don't care if it is hidden on page 112 of the contract. How can anyone assume people are cleaning after you and serving you and if the service isacceptable or exemplary extra should be forthcoming. You see, people who do not pay their share cost the rest of us more in the long run.

 

And, Raleigh... You say no one answered the OP's question. Well, most of us wouldn't remove the DSC. But the OP ended post #1 with ANY THOUGHTS WELCOME. So we did post.