Costa Ship grounded or sinking

[Pam in CA]

So, what else might that suggest about the incessant drivel on the evening "news?" :)

Scary, isn't it? In this day of instant information, so much of it is wrong. :(

[Katelab]

It seems pretty clear to me, that if the ship had stopped and begun the evacuation while still offshore, all the boats would have been launched and there would have been minimal (if any) loss of life.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/interactive-graphics/9018076/Concordia-How-the-disaster-unfolded.html

 

I'm not so sure how clear, but IF they had not done the turn and just started getting people off I think you are right it might have gone very smoothly. But, If they were a little further from the island and had done the turn, then it could have gone down very quickly in deep water and many would have died.

[RickEk]

Scary, isn't it? In this day of instant information, so much of it is wrong. :(

 

I read somewhere that as news organizations grow smaller, the fact-checkers/proofreaders are the first to go...

[jacketwatch]

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/01/19/costa-concordia-italian-captain-greek-second-officer-fell-into-lifeboat/

[OldSeaDog]

If they were a little further from the island and had done the turn, then it could have gone down very quickly in deep water and many would have died.

 

No, it probably wouldn't. If both engine rooms were completely flooded the Concordia would have settled about 3 meters deeper in the water. That's it. If both engine rooms and one of the generator rooms flooded it would be about 4 meters. Modern ships have huge amounts of reserve bouyancy and both lengthwise and cross-ship water tight compartmentation so that they *will* remain afloat...it's up to the engineering crew to make sure she stays upright while afloat. In this case, grounding her on the rocks made that impossible.

[binkey36]

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/01/19/costa-concordia-italian-captain-greek-second-officer-fell-into-lifeboat/

 

It will be interesting to see if the Italian courts react to this captain in the same way it reacted to Amanda Knox. I'm sure the facts will all come out, in the end.

[cruzinchris]

Just saw a brief segment about the Concordia incident on Inside Edition. Included was an interview with the young blonde cruise staffer who being wined and dined by the Captain at the time of the accident :rolleyes:

 

Text and/or video should be available shortly at http://www.insideedition.com

[jacketwatch]

Just saw a brief segment about the Concordia incident on Inside Edition. Included was an interview with the young blonde cruise staffer who being wined and dined by the Captain at the time of the accident :rolleyes:

 

Text and/or video should be available shortly at http://www.insideedition.com

I saw that as well. I wonder if his wife did? ;)

[Katelab]

No, it probably wouldn't. If both engine rooms were completely flooded the Concordia would have settled about 3 meters deeper in the water. That's it. If both engine rooms and one of the generator rooms flooded it would be about 4 meters. Modern ships have huge amounts of reserve bouyancy and both lengthwise and cross-ship water tight compartmentation so that they *will* remain afloat...it's up to the engineering crew to make sure she stays upright while afloat. In this case, grounding her on the rocks made that impossible.

 

Well I have read about the greater technical information available being such a positive. :D

 

But I did not know we were still saying ships were unsinkable. :D:D:D

 

I appreciate your perspective, but will keep my doubts.

[Aus Traveller]

Just saw a brief segment about the Concordia incident on Inside Edition. Included was an interview with the young blonde cruise staffer who being wined and dined by the Captain at the time of the accident :rolleyes:

 

Text and/or video should be available shortly at www.insideedition.com

The young blonde woman has been identified. It has been reported that she was not on the crew list and not on the passenger list. Therefore she was not officially authorised to be on board. Someone in authority must have organised that she be there.

[CZEE]

But from what I've also read is that even under Italian law this guy should've remained on the ship. Supposedly, just the fact that he abandoned ship will carry a heavy jail sentence of about 12 years! Still no comfort to the families of those who lost their lives...:(

 

Their maritime law is quite explicit on the master's responsibility. He or she is to stay on board and direct the evacuation of his vessel. It's not just the customary thing to do. In their waters, if you're Italian, you do it. End of story. That certainly explains the Coast Guard's frustration.

[Aus Traveller]

Speaking about eating. The Concordia story just keeps getting more insane. According to the ship's cook, the captain apparently ordered dinner for himself and a woman about an hour after the crash:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/19/world/europe/italy-cruise-cook/index.html?hpt=hpt3

Apparently this is the 25 year old blonde ballerina from Moldovia who wasn't on the crew or passenger lists. ;)

[Purples]

Yes I read that too. Sounds crazy that there are people onboard and not on the manifast - sounds like the captain and officers can have "friends" onboard with no recording of names - the company must be compicit in this - to hide it from thier wives perhaps?

[CZEE]

Apparently this is the 25 year old blonde ballerina from Moldovia who wasn't on the crew or passenger lists. ;)

 

Amazing that people can get on board without being accounted for. That's just scary. If she'd been lost, how would anyone have known? Surely, Costa can't be that lax.

[Katelab]

Yes I read that too. Sounds crazy that there are people onboard and not on the manifast - sounds like the captain and officers can have "friends" onboard with no recording of names - the company must be compicit in this - to hide it from thier wives perhaps?

 

 

If he can steer the boat a few hundred feet from the island - way off route - risking thousands of lives and a 500 million dollar boat, Do you really think people care if he brings a babe on board?

[Aus Traveller]

Amazing that people can get on board without being accounted for. That's just scary. If she'd been lost, how would anyone have known? Surely, Costa can't be that lax.

I don't think it is Costa, but the particular crew. If a senior officer brought a friend on board, the security staff at the gangway would certainly be aware of it - and I don't think it will happen again after this publicised incident. If I was in Costa management I would want a "please explain" from the security staff on this particular matter.

 

Yes - I know in the scheme of things it doesn't appear to be important, but it should be followed up.

[bdjam]

The number of missing or dead - while still tragic - is small compared to the number of people who were on that ship. The command structure broke down - the Captain should have started abandoning the ship when it was apparent that there was a mortal wound - waiting an hour was what put the passengers in trouble.

 

You're right, we can reasonably expect the ship's officers to be in charge and you're also right that some of the passengers said it was chaos. But I have to doubt that the crew was incompetent at evacuating the ship - if they had been, the loss of life would have been much worse.

 

The crew didn't get over 4,000 people safely off. The crew did get the majority off, but many had to jump overboard and swim to shore and others were taken off by helicopter (thanks to the Italian Coast Guard). Then there are the poor souls who didn't get off, or who may have drowned while trying to swim ashore.

 

I agree, we have to take some responsibility, but I think we can reasonably expect the ship's officers to be in charge. From what we read it was chaos (that word has been used by several survivors).

[bdjam]

Your idea about automated life rafts might be a good one. But it's just like when a wing falls off an airplane, no matter how much training the crew has, if a ship is damaged severly enough, people won't get off. Ships the size of Concordia should - by law - be able to be evacuated in 30 minutes. If the command decision was made when it should have been, 30 minutes would have been plenty of time to get all the lifeboats filled and off the ship before the list hampered it.

 

The root cause of this whole thing is a lack of respect for the responsibilities of command. No amount of training will help if those trained aren't utilized properly. There is a definite command structure on a ship so that order can be kept amongst the crew and the ship will function in unity. With that command structure comes a responsibility to command.

 

A lot of the ship is still above water. Some very brave crew members did help customers, but if a ship ever lists like this in deeper water thousands of lives could be lost as it QUICKLY goes below the water line.

 

severe Listing and sinking are VERY bad and the officers realize that and abandoned the passengers.

 

You will NEVER get enough life boats launched once severe listing occurs. There needs to be better training and back up automatically launched inflatable life rafts for people to swim to.

 

The colder the water the more worthless a life vest becomes. Running aground and being close enough to shore so people could swim on their own made a big difference. If this had been steered differently to deeper water and the swim was 1 mile to shore the number of lives lost would have increased dramatically.

[bdjam]

Interesting...

 

No, it probably wouldn't. If both engine rooms were completely flooded the Concordia would have settled about 3 meters deeper in the water. That's it. If both engine rooms and one of the generator rooms flooded it would be about 4 meters. Modern ships have huge amounts of reserve bouyancy and both lengthwise and cross-ship water tight compartmentation so that they *will* remain afloat...it's up to the engineering crew to make sure she stays upright while afloat. In this case, grounding her on the rocks made that impossible.

[cherylandtk]

Apparently this is the 25 year old blonde ballerina from Moldovia who wasn't on the crew or passenger lists. ;)

 

Yes I read that too. Sounds crazy that there are people onboard and not on the manifast - sounds like the captain and officers can have "friends" onboard with no recording of names - the company must be compicit in this - to hide it from thier wives perhaps?

 

Amazing that people can get on board without being accounted for. That's just scary. If she'd been lost, how would anyone have known? Surely, Costa can't be that lax.

 

She was on the manifest as a passenger for this cruise although she is a Costa employee, just not for this particular cruise.

 

"THE captain of the Costa Concordia is alleged to have been drinking at dinner with a Moldovan dancer on the night of the shipwreck off Italy. Italian police want to question Domnica Cemortan, a 25-year-old former ballet student who says that she was with the captain on the bridge. Ms Cemortan is a Costa Cruises employee, but she was starting a holiday to celebrate her birthday with friends. She had worked as an interpreter for Russian passengers on a previous leg but bought a ticket to stay on board after the ship left the Italian port of Civitavecchia"

[Aus Traveller]

She was on the manifest as a passenger for this cruise although she is a Costa employee, just not for this particular cruise.

 

"THE captain of the Costa Concordia is alleged to have been drinking at dinner with a Moldovan dancer on the night of the shipwreck off Italy. Italian police want to question Domnica Cemortan, a 25-year-old former ballet student who says that she was with the captain on the bridge. Ms Cemortan is a Costa Cruises employee, but she was starting a holiday to celebrate her birthday with friends. She had worked as an interpreter for Russian passengers on a previous leg but bought a ticket to stay on board after the ship left the Italian port of Civitavecchia"

Although the woman said she was "starting a holiday" there have been definite reports that she was not on the passenger list (or the crew list).

[Pam in CA]

Not that I am contemplating cruising on the Allure or Oasis but if I were, I'd think twice. These ships can't even tender to ports effectively. I'd be very curious to know what the evacuation plans are for these and other super-sized ships which are getting bigger and bigger.

 

Carnival Corporation issued a press release today that they are reviewing the safety procedures for all of their brands: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=200767&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1650784&highlight=

[H2O skier]

Scary, isn't it? In this day of instant information, so much of it is wrong. :(

 

Mark Twain said; "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uniformed.

If you do read the newspaper, you are misinformed". Seems to pertain to all media today.

[Katelab]

Your idea about automated life rafts might be a good one. But it's just like when a wing falls off an airplane, no matter how much training the crew has, if a ship is damaged severly enough, people won't get off. Ships the size of Concordia should - by law - be able to be evacuated in 30 minutes. If the command decision was made when it should have been, 30 minutes would have been plenty of time to get all the lifeboats filled and off the ship before the list hampered it.

 

The root cause of this whole thing is a lack of respect for the responsibilities of command. No amount of training will help if those trained aren't utilized properly. There is a definite command structure on a ship so that order can be kept amongst the crew and the ship will function in unity. With that command structure comes a responsibility to command.

 

I am not going to debate the ROOT cause of this disaster, but plans need to be sufficient to account for several cascading errors or failures occurring in a row not just a single event. The cargo 4000+ passengers and crew are to precious.

 

BTW, the news is reporting the ship may yet sink so my previous concerns about listing in deep water and getting VERY FEW life rafts in the water is a very real issue and design deficiency in these ships.

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

I have noticed the BBC has started many of its news storries about the

 

this with X is reporting, or Y has said,

 

I assume this is because there is so much miss information out there and

 

unless they its true they do not want to be blamed.

 

 

I see the latest video shows crew telling passengers wearing life jackets

 

too go back to their cabins, everything is OK now just amazing

 

 

BBC has some very good reports, the one from the deputy major is a must read he spent 6 hours on the ship

yours Shogun