Will travel Ins cover Concordia losses to pasengers

[Jimsgirl]

I always purchase travel Ins when I pay the final cost, premium based on total cost cruise, hotel, air, lost luggage, medical

 

However have read on the Costa board that this type of Ins will not cover any losses to passngers on the Concordia because "incident was caused by the deliberate action of the Captain, in that he went off prescribed course".

 

This is a worrying problem. Does anyone in the industry know if this is likely to be true?

 

Thank you

[Underwatr]

I guess from the standpoint of the insurer it's not their loss to pay, but the cruise line's.

 

Eventually...

[bazzaw]

Nonsense!!! With the underlying proviso that the wording of the Insurance Policy (including all it's Terms and Conditions) is the final arbiter of what you are covered for or not covered for, it is only if YOU deliberately do something which can cause a loss to YOUR Insurance Company that they will refuse to pay.

 

Think about it - somebody deliberately or negligently damages your car. Does your Insurance Company protect you?? Yes - then they try to recover that cost from the guilty party.

 

Barry

[Underwatr]

I think travel insurance is named risk insurance - they won't pay for anything not specifically identified in the policy.

 

Having said that, would this be considered "default" of the travel supplier?

 

Among my plan's exclusions:

Any Loss caused by or resulting from the following is excluded:

...

11. Imprudent action or omission;

I remain of the opinion that the insurer won't pay unless or until it is demonstrated that Costa/Carnival is unable to.

[bazzaw]

One thing I "think" I have noticed - when reading discussions re Travel insurance in the different cruising Forums, is that there is a possibility of quite different forms of travel insurance in different countries. I have read of British people complaining about the "high cost" of their travel insurance and the low value of coverage - but here we have a MUCH higher cost but with very large limits to claims - some claim limits are indeed "unlimited" :eek:

 

Here for example are the full terms and conditions of the Company we normally deal with http://www.worldcare.com.au/content/pdf/productdisclosurestatement.pdf

 

They do also have some "catch-all" exclusions eg they will not cover any claims relating to getting caught in a war zone - whether war has been declared or not??? It really does pay to have a good look at the fine print of your insurance :)

 

 

Barry

[Salacia]

Barry, you're right, it really is important to read the fine print of travel insurance policies. Also, if it becomes necessary to litigate to recover losses, the laws of the country in which the ship is registered will be the laws that govern litigation. -At least that was the experience of a friend (a US citizen) who was on the Greek cruise ship that sank a few years ago.

[bazzaw]

I was one of those affected by the Icelandic volcano. After a week of seeing people being stranded in Asian airports while attempting to fly from Australia to London, I cancelled our flight (and all other bookings) 12 hours before we were to depart. Our Travel Insurance said that we were covered in the event of (amongst other things) cancellation due to "unforeseen natural disasters" -- but it didn't say cancellation by WHO!! Elsewhere in the Policy, in "General exclusions", it said that they would not pay out for "changes of mind".

 

I was nervous as to whether the Ins Co would pay out seeing as how it was I who cancelled out . - Fortunately they did! :p

 

 

Barry

[ocngypz]

Your insurance would up to the limits insured.

 

One would file under trip interruption. Since the cruiseline is refunding the fares, it is the trip interruption which would get one home.

 

Personal effects loss. Up to the limits on your policy AFTER the paltry sum paid by the cruiseline under the contract of carriage.

[ednria]

I saw a post somewhere, possibly on the Contra boards, that the insurance company was not going to pay because the Captain deviated from his course.

 

I see a problem there, in that the insurance company has apparently already convicted the Captain.

 

I also think the insurance company being cited in that report was probably the conmpany that insures the ship, itself.Would be an interesting trial to observe

[Salacia]

I saw a post somewhere, possibly on the Contra boards, that the insurance company was not going to pay because the Captain deviated from his course.

 

I see a problem there, in that the insurance company has apparently already convicted the Captain.

 

I also think the insurance company being cited in that report was probably the conmpany that insures the ship, itself.Would be an interesting trial to observe

 

Hi ednria. I agree that it will be an an interesting trial to observe, and I hope all of us who enjoy ocean voyages will follow the trial and show cruise lines (and insurance companies) that we are paying attention. Regards, -S.

[bazzaw]

While we are talking about Costa and travel insurance, all in the one sentence - have a look here, Post no. 43 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1548813&page=3

 

 

Barry

[Norfolk Brit]

It really does pay to have a good look at the fine print of your insurance :)

Barry

 

Can ayone tell me, bearing in mind that my mystical qualities are limited, which bit of the small print I should be examining in fine detail and what I should be looking for? Events over the past few years indicate that it's the unexpected (ash clouds, captains (allegedly) running into rocks, uprisings et al) that are excluded.

 

It's only once I know what the latest unpredictable event is that I shall discover whether it's covered or not. By then, it's too late...

[Salacia]

Can ayone tell me, bearing in mind that my mystical qualities are limited, which bit of the small print I should be examining in fine detail and what I should be looking for? Events over the past few years indicate that it's the unexpected (ash clouds, captains (allegedly) running into rocks, uprisings et al) that are excluded.

 

It's only once I know what the latest unpredictable event is that I shall discover whether it's covered or not. By then, it's too late...

 

 

I've purchased several different travel insurance policies for several different cruises. The details for each policy were different. Various riders include medical coverage, repatriation of remains (my personal fav) and coverage for inadequate canapes on board. Also cremation, but I didn't ash for details.

[bazzaw]

Where we are, it is quite common for different policies to have slightly different wording and coverage . Hence to know what anybody is covered for, we have to know the name of the insurer and the policy taken out. Here also, there has been a lot of work and regulation to force insurers to word their policies in "real English" - and largely this has happened, such that they are reasonably easy to read and understand. They generally split it into up to 16 sections of coverage and say, for each section, what they will cover and what they won't. Then at the end , there will be some "general" exclusions (such as , in my case, an exclusion from coverage for anything to do with "war" - whether declared or not.)

 

So I would have to hope that war doesn't break out amongst the Baltic countries or the western Mediterranean countries in May and June of this year :eek: - else I am "on my own"!!

 

 

Barry

[Norfolk Brit]

So I would have to hope that war doesn't break out amongst the Baltic countries or the western Mediterranean countries in May and June of this year :eek: - else I am "on my own"!!

Barry

 

I would be more concerned about industrial unrest/strikes this year in Europe, so have busily covered for every eventuality arising from that (apart from the one eventuality I haven't thought of, of course). So, you can rest assured that there won't be any and that someone or something, somewhere, is plotting something completely different to scupper my cunning plans.

 

I just need to know what it is.

 

Mary

[sirwired]

Underwatr; I'm pretty sure that policy exclusion is referring you YOUR imprudent action or omission; not that of a 3rd-party not on the policy. That'd be pretty useless insurance if it excludes random people doing something really stupid that effects you.

 

re: The Concordia passengers in particular. I am about 99.9% positive that Costa/CCL will do whatever possible to promptly cover any and all losses to passengers. Period. It is, from a PR perspective, completely untenable to even consider anything else, like foisting passengers off to their own insurance company first. There may be screwups, hassles, and communication problems, but I'm pretty sure they will pull out all the stops that they can.

 

That said. If you did have lost luggage, I can't see why your trip insurance wouldn't cover it. I don't know of any exclusions that would keep them from paying. They can always turn around and subrogate the claim to Costa on their own time (not likely for such a small amount.) However, the insurance company won't have any qualms about enforcing THEIR liability limits. Anything beyond that will need to be recovered from Costa directly.

 

Now, CCL might have a battle ahead of itself getting paid for the ship by its insurance companies, but that is CCL's problem, not yours.

 

What happens to people that are booked on future Concordia sailings? If I was Costa, I'd be offering full refunds on the cruise (duh), fare difference if you choose to take another cruise, and airline change fees and fare difference for whatever you choose as your replacement vacation (cruise or not.)

[cruiseco]

Underwatr; I'm pretty sure that policy exclusion is referring you YOUR imprudent action or omission; not that of a 3rd-party not on the policy. That'd be pretty useless insurance if it excludes random people doing something really stupid that effects you.

 

re: The Concordia passengers in particular. I am about 99.9% positive that Costa/CCL will do whatever possible to promptly cover any and all losses to passengers. Period. It is, from a PR perspective, completely untenable to even consider anything else, like foisting passengers off to their own insurance company first. There may be screwups, hassles, and communication problems, but I'm pretty sure they will pull out all the stops that they can.

 

That said. If you did have lost luggage, I can't see why your trip insurance wouldn't cover it. I don't know of any exclusions that would keep them from paying. They can always turn around and subrogate the claim to Costa on their own time (not likely for such a small amount.) However, the insurance company won't have any qualms about enforcing THEIR liability limits. Anything beyond that will need to be recovered from Costa directly.

 

Now, CCL might have a battle ahead of itself getting paid for the ship by its insurance companies, but that is CCL's problem, not yours.

 

What happens to people that are booked on future Concordia sailings? If I was Costa, I'd be offering full refunds on the cruise (duh), fare difference if you choose to take another cruise, and airline change fees and fare difference for whatever you choose as your replacement vacation (cruise or not.)

 

I agree. Costa will reimburse all of the passengers for their trip interruption -- the value of the unused portion of the trip plus the cost of getting home (at minimum -- they will probably also be given a free replacement cruise). Any medical bills will be paid by Costa and/or its insurers. Even if Costa is slow in making reimbursement for loss of personal possessions there's no reason why your travel insurance won't pay up -- they'll pay even if the loss of items is your own negligence (leave your camera in a restaurant or taxi and go strolling away) so there's no question you'd be covered if the loss is due to the negligence of a third party. Even the accidental death benefits of most plans only exclude negligence of the insured -- get drunk and die in a car crash you cause and you might not get paid. But be walking down the street and get run over by a drunk and your heirs will be thanking you for buying the insurance.

 

Since there will probably be no financial loss to any of the ship's passengers I really don't see how most travel insurance policies will even need to get involved.

[cherylandtk]

Most travel insurance policies as sold to North American pax will cover losses to personal possessions and trip interruption costs (such as a flights home and hotels) up to policy limits. Policy limits are based on what total $ coverage you paid for.

 

I would not give too much credence to the Australian report, they think Costa is headquartered in China (it's actually Genoa, Italy) and are upset their airfare was not covered (which in the US would be because they did not include it in their insurance purchase). Cannot say how Australian insurance laws differ from US, but it does matter that OP is in the US and all answers should be relevant to the US. There were only ~120 US pax on the Concordia, and thus most insurance Q&A from this event will not be directly applicable.

 

However, in this instance, Costa is refunding fares paid to all pax as well as covering costs incurred to them due to the accident, both loss of personal possessions and costs of hotel and airfare/changes to return home.

[Underwatr]

Underwatr; I'm pretty sure that policy exclusion is referring you YOUR imprudent action or omission; not that of a 3rd-party not on the policy. That'd be pretty useless insurance if it excludes random people doing something really stupid that effects you.

Maybe so, but other named exclusions include...

6. War or any act of war whether declared or not;

10. Insurrection or rebellion;

... which refer to actions of others, not my actions. I'm just trying to read the policy from the standpoint of the insurer rather than from the policyholder.

[CruisinGerman]

I agree with Sir Wired. People's travel insurance policies will pay up to all policy limits.

 

Costa is responsible for making victims of the tragedy whole, plus compensating them nicely for the trauma they will probably suffer the rest of their lives.

 

Carnival's insurer might try not to pay Carnival for the ship because of the captain's acts. But that is a problem between Carnival and their insurer -- it has nothing to do with affected passengers.

 

I don't think this matter will ever go to any trial beyond passengers technically filing their lawsuit. Carnival and the cruise industry in general should want to make this go away as quietly as possible.

 

In the short-term there is going to be damage to the entire cruise industry. The images we are seeing on television and on You Tube are just too vivid and tragic, and are being repeated all day long on all channels worldwide.

 

There was no Internet and cellphone cameras in 1912, and the ferry tragedy in the Philippines is just too far away from the mental awareness capacity of most Westerners. Even though there are fewer deaths (although 11 or 30 or 40 or whatever the final number will be are way too many), the detailed images we are seeing of this tragedy are having a very profound impact on people worldwide.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Underwatr]

People's travel insurance policies will pay up to all policy limits.

 

Costa is responsible for making victims of the tragedy whole

I think as long as there's ambiguity regarding whether insurance or Costa/Carnival ultimately will pay (it won't be both), the insurance companies will stonewall any payout.

[Salacia]

I think as long as there's ambiguity regarding whether insurance or Costa/Carnival ultimately will pay (it won't be both), the insurance companies will stonewall any payout.

 

Underwatr, I think that's safe bet.

 

From what I've been reading, it's the Passenger Contract that is the document most deserving of focus. -After that, it is the travel insurance policy. Also, if you paid for your voyage by credit card, check the automatic insurance coverage. What may also be of importance in an emergency situation is what assistance the Embassy of your County can provide.

[sirwired]

I think as long as there's ambiguity regarding whether insurance or Costa/Carnival ultimately will pay (it won't be both), the insurance companies will stonewall any payout.

 

They can't stonewall payout beyond that that is provided in your passage contract. In Costa's case, the U.S. contract specifies $150 per piece, $500 total per passenger.

 

That means that your insurance company can deduct $150/bag, up to $500, from what they pay you. They cannot stonewall payment entirely.

[cruiseco]

They cannot stonewall payment entirely.

 

That's correct. In most states, the state's department of insurance gives the insurer a defined amount of time (usually about 60 days from the date the claim forms are received) to pay any valid claims or face penalties and/or be barred from doing business with residents of that state. No insurer is going to risk those sanctions over a $500 baggage claim.

[Underwatr]

Makes sense. Thanks.