Lesson for Norwegian from Concordia

[Kruiser@]

My last 2 cruises were on the Epic and the Oasis. Our muster station was inside in a restaurant on both ships. I realize that it takes a long time for a ship to sink, so in theory this should be fine. After seeing a real emergency, it makes this plan seem ridiculous. If the ship is taking on water, who would be brave enough to go inside and wait at a restaurant? especially if the lights were flickering? People would head straight for lifeboats. And, since we don't know where our lifeboat is because we gather at the restaurant and not our boat, people would scramble for the nearest boat. Also, in a real emergency parents aren't going to let go of their children (as we practiced in the muster). So Norwegian and RCCL: you need to come up with a better plan!

[SissasMomE]

My last 2 cruises were on the Epic and the Oasis. Our muster station was inside in a restaurant on both ships. I realize that it takes a long time for a ship to sink, so in theory this should be fine. After seeing a real emergency, it makes this plan seem ridiculous. If the ship is taking on water, who would be brave enough to go inside and wait at a restaurant? especially if the lights were flickering? People would head straight for lifeboats. And, since we don't know where our lifeboat is because we gather at the restaurant and not our boat, people would scramble for the nearest boat. Also, in a real emergency parents aren't going to let go of their children (as we practiced in the muster). So Norwegian and RCCL: you need to come up with a better plan!

 

Completely agree. My husband and I were speaking of this yesterday, and said the exact same thing.

[CTCruiser001]

So many people are missing the point for why NCL and other cruise lines have you muster to large public spaces...The theory is that we assemble at the central muster stations and we will be directed to our lifeboat.

 

Sounds good? Okay, ask yourself if that lifeboat is not working due to mechanical failure? Maybe it's damaged from whatever is causing your ship to sink...Explosion, fire, etc...? Would you want to waste your time running around and jumping into the first lifeboat you see (maybe it isn't going to run due to maintenance issues) or do you want to go where you WILL get direction to a proper craft and off the ship to safety?

 

From each muster station, I would be SHOCKED, SHOCKED if they didn't have several routes planned out to several different lifeboats for whatever the situation calls for.

 

What we want to learn from the Concordia disaster is, are the officers and crew members really, truly trained to give us (panicky and frenzied) passengers the forceful hand to safety? I do believe many crew members are well trained on NCL ships, and that said, I hope if such a disaster was to happen on a ship I was sailing, that I wouldn't act in such an irresponsible manner that would jeporize the safety of my fellow passengers and the crew trying to assist us to safety!

 

If there is anything that needs to be changed during the muster drills, is a stern statement to passengers about why the cruise line is training you to muster to those central locations. That is what muster drills are...Training.

 

Pay attention.

[armwinder]

Well said CtCruiser001;

 

Yes so many folks are missing the point on why they have us muster in large public places, why line up at a life boat that may not be there on worse yet on fire. The drills are also to help the crews stay on top of their training.

[che5904]

There are already 2 threads running on this same topic that you may want to check out. There is some very good information posted, by an ex crew member and safety personel from other high safety risk companies.

 

Besides the information in the links below. The one thing you may want to keep in mind about location of muster drills.

 

In all of the media about the Concordia, I have never seen location of muster stations be an issue or a cause for missing or loss of life. The finger has been pointed in many directions but this was not one of them.

It has been blamed on lack of information, wasted time by the captain, no direction from captain or officers, paniced passengers and or crew, lack of muster drill before sailing, disorganization, passengers not realizing that certain crew members were responsible for certain things and to be listened to and trusted, there is even one video taken of passengers garbed in life vests out by the life boats and a crew member directing them back to their cabins (of all places).

 

Perhaps if everything had fallen into place that we all learn in our muster drills, crew learned in training and captain learned in training, no matter where the muster stations are located, there wouldn't have been any missing or loss of life.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1549282

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1553099

[Cruise-Crazy]

My last 2 cruises were on the Epic and the Oasis. Our muster station was inside in a restaurant on both ships. I realize that it takes a long time for a ship to sink, so in theory this should be fine. After seeing a real emergency, it makes this plan seem ridiculous. If the ship is taking on water, who would be brave enough to go inside and wait at a restaurant? especially if the lights were flickering? People would head straight for lifeboats. And, since we don't know where our lifeboat is because we gather at the restaurant and not our boat, people would scramble for the nearest boat. Also, in a real emergency parents aren't going to let go of their children (as we practiced in the muster). So Norwegian and RCCL: you need to come up with a better plan!

 

When you meet in the restaurant for the drill they tell you where your lifeboat is. This is why it is important to pay attention and not sit there chatting about what you are going to do after the drill.

[sjbdtz]

May main concern with mustering in the dining room before heading to the lifeboat(s) is that inevitably you need to deal with the s-lowest common denominator.

 

What should happen is that you are identified, and directed....rather than having to wait for the rest of your muster group.

 

 

 

.

[captgeo]

On the Star last November, our muster station was in the theater. There, a crew member up on stage demonstrated how to put on a life jacket. I would venture to say some 95% of the folks there were "yacking" and not paying a bit of attention. And, can you picture a theater full of people in a panic all trying to exit at the same time? Several of the "crew" in the theater were entertainers; how well trained are they? I still prefer the old way -- muster at your life boat station with your life vest on. Its a tough call -- there is going to be panic and confusion no matter what. We took responsibility for our own safety and after looking at the diagram on the cabin door, went off to find our life boat, and the one closest to our cabin..

[SissasMomE]

In all of the media about the Concordia, I have never seen location of muster stations be an issue or a cause for missing or loss of life.

 

I thought I read that 3 of the deceased were found with lifejackets on, outside of a restaurant (presumably their muster station)? Did I read that incorrectly?

[che5904]

Several of the "crew" in the theater were entertainers; how well trained are they?

 

I'm assuming as well trained as every crew member on board.

 

Maybe that should be addressed either at muster drill or somewhere else with something like. All of our crew members are cross trained in many aspects of emergency rolls. Just because that crew member may be a dishwasher they are also cross trained to assemble a muster station, drop and drive a lifeboat.

 

That appears to be one area of the Concordia situation that caused issues. Was because people were being directed by waiters or room stewards and they did not seem to trust that these crew members were suppose to do whatever it was in the emergency that they were trying to do.

[SissasMomE]

When you meet in the restaurant for the drill they tell you where your lifeboat is. This is why it is important to pay attention and not sit there chatting about what you are going to do after the drill.

 

I agree. "Back in the day" you weren't allowed to talk, use your cell phone, etc. It seems the crew has also become lax about the muster drill as well.

[sparks1093]

So many people are missing the point for why NCL and other cruise lines have you muster to large public spaces...The theory is that we assemble at the central muster stations and we will be directed to our lifeboat.

 

Sounds good? Okay, ask yourself if that lifeboat is not working due to mechanical failure? Maybe it's damaged from whatever is causing your ship to sink...Explosion, fire, etc...? Would you want to waste your time running around and jumping into the first lifeboat you see (maybe it isn't going to run due to maintenance issues) or do you want to go where you WILL get direction to a proper craft and off the ship to safety?

 

From each muster station, I would be SHOCKED, SHOCKED if they didn't have several routes planned out to several different lifeboats for whatever the situation calls for.

 

What we want to learn from the Concordia disaster is, are the officers and crew members really, truly trained to give us (panicky and frenzied) passengers the forceful hand to safety? I do believe many crew members are well trained on NCL ships, and that said, I hope if such a disaster was to happen on a ship I was sailing, that I wouldn't act in such an irresponsible manner that would jeporize the safety of my fellow passengers and the crew trying to assist us to safety!

 

If there is anything that needs to be changed during the muster drills, is a stern statement to passengers about why the cruise line is training you to muster to those central locations. That is what muster drills are...Training.

 

Pay attention.

 

Well said, especially the last line. The most important part of the muster is to do an accounting of all passengers, which is impossible to do if passengers are heading off higgledy-piggledy to the life boats. If someone is missing then someone else is going to have to go and find them, possilby at great risk.

[neverbeen1]

We just returned from a cruise on the Spirit (just prior to the Costa disaster) and I have to tell you that the crew on our ship took the emergency drill very seriously. We met at our muster stations directly below our lifeboat and they did a role call, checking everyone's name off their list. When a passenger in the group grumbled about the procedure the crew member said, "pay attention - remember the titanic!"

[cruis247g]

I thought I read that 3 of the deceased were found with lifejackets on, outside of a restaurant (presumably their muster station)? Did I read that incorrectly?

 

I read the same thing. It is so very sad and disturbing.

[nikimouse]

well said about paying attention!!! I didnt pay attention at any of the muster drills and would freak out and not know what to do in an emergency! I really had the attitude that nothing will happen to me. I also couldnt see any point in meeting in a resturant and Ive always said that Id grab my life jacket and go up on deck despite being told not to. The passengers they found dead were at the muster point so I figure its safer on deck, but the lifeboats are not on deck they are somewhere else. Im not even sure if they have enough lifeboats for the amount of people or how they would decide who gets on the lifeboat first and there are so many things I am unsure about because I have never really thought about it until recently. Im going to make a point of really listening at the next muster drill. It seemed that on the costa ship it was a case of every man for himself but I have to applaud the people who did help others befor helping themselves and the survivors that stayed calm and were brave during a traumatic situation. I cant imagine what it would feel like to go through that. I hope it never happens again and if it does I hope its handled better and that everyone survives.

[gooch47]

Unfortunately, I think that in this case it didn't matter where they were supposed to meet. The ones who hadn't had the drill had no idea and most likely that added to the panic.

 

You also have to remember that not all emergencies end up as an abandon ship order. Having a place to meet in relative safety and away from the elements would be much preferable to me than having to stand outside, possibly in extreme heat or cold for heaven only knows how long until the emergency is resolved.

[TrudyC]

Let's be honest, when the breakdown of communication and direction fails at the top, the trickle down effect is disastrous...Who checked the elevators?? The info from the bridge was electrical problems...did this captain believe that??? Did the others on the bridge?? Being directed back to the cabins in the dark on a listing ship, when most people wouldn't even KNOW the layout after only a few hours was wrong!!!

 

And they hadn't had their drill so no one knew where to go, so some followed the orders to go to their rooms...And the person who complained the waiter/cleaner didn't know how to drop the life boat, of course he didn't by then it wasn't going straight down, and the guy inside the lifeboat needed the guys on deck to assist, and they did and the boat dropped, but not smoothly, of course...maybe some dry land training for staff in how to work these on a 45 degree list??? When one side of the boat is up, so half the boats are useless and the others have to be dropped and get away before the ship crushes them...

 

I am very upset with the loss of life, I am very upset that the captain didn't do the right thing, but the crew with a total lack of proper direction did all they could. Perhaps this will cause some to pay attention to musters, that some will walk the ship and orient themselves right away as to how to make it to exits.. Maybe cruise owners will install different protocols, but they will definitely be looking at this in the next weeks/years... May it never happen again RIP to all those who passed and i am truly sorry for grieving family members, this is so wrong...

[autrucheplume]

My last 2 cruises were on the Epic and the Oasis. Our muster station was inside in a restaurant on both ships. I realize that it takes a long time for a ship to sink, so in theory this should be fine. After seeing a real emergency, it makes this plan seem ridiculous. If the ship is taking on water, who would be brave enough to go inside and wait at a restaurant? especially if the lights were flickering? People would head straight for lifeboats. And, since we don't know where our lifeboat is because we gather at the restaurant and not our boat, people would scramble for the nearest boat. Also, in a real emergency parents aren't going to let go of their children (as we practiced in the muster). So Norwegian and RCCL: you need to come up with a better plan!

 

If you read the links to the threads that another poster shared, you'll see that the reason they do this is because certain groups will be ready first, and certain lifeboats will be ready first. These 2 might not coincide. If people gathered at the lifeboats, and the boat for one group was ready to go, but only 1/3 of the group was there, why should that boat wait? This way, the groups that are ready first can head to the lifeboats that are ready first. It's actually a much better system when you think about it - though until I heard that, I completely agreed with you that it seemed silly. Now, I realize that it's much more efficient (as efficient as anything could be in a panic situation like that)

[nikimouse]

The passengers were lied to on the costa ship - they were told to go to their cabins and that it was engine trouble and nothing to worry about. The captain abandoned ship. If some waiter is telling me not to worry and go to my cabin I am not gonna listen either. They didnt get the people waiting at the muster point into a boat and I cant help feeling like its similar to titanic and each man for himself. its gonna cost them millions in losses and lawsuits and Im sure other cruiselines wanna avoid that happening again. The captain is looking at 12 yrs in jail too.

[Starry Eyes]

In the case of the Concordia, current info suggests that the officers did not admit the gravity of the problem for a long, long time. It appears that rather than sound the general emergency signal (the well known seven short one long on the horn), they instead told crew and coast guard there was an electrical issue. Had the alarm been properly and promptly sounded, could not life boats all been filled and deployed from both sides of the ship? could crew have covered their emergency areas, instructing those who had not yet had muster drills and those that did not pay attention? It seems possible that all would have survived with less trauma had the alarm been sounded sooner.

 

To endanger the lives and the ship to sail close to shore to sound horns at night in a salute was obviously foolhardy. To deny the gravity of the situation while precious minutes slipped away was far worse.

[RWDave]

Being just 4 points away from Platinum, we've been cruising with Norwegian for many years. First thing we do when we get to the cabin is to check the back of the door for the location of our life boat station. The second is to locate our life vests. The muster on every Norwegian cruise we've been on has, without exception, been conducted seriously and professionally by every member of the crew from the Captain on down. I just don't believe that what happened on the Concordia could ever happen on a Norwegian ship.

 

Dave

[crew mom]

Several of the "crew" in the theater were entertainers; how well trained are they? ..

They are as well trained as any other crew member. They take the same safety classes, watch the same videos, read the same safety manuals, have to pass the same written tests (Yes- crew members take written tests and have to pass) as every other crew member on board. They participate in the weekly drills and every muster drill.

[knitwitt44]

I totally agree. Having sailed Costa several years back, I found the drill to be a joke. Went to the muster station and having our life vest on, the drill consisted of "Everybody outside, ok, everybody inside." Then, started sailing Norweign and felt so much safer and impressed. Sailed on NCL from 1998 and every year since, always, always, assembled on the outside deck or main room, each name was called and checked off, proper instructions on life jackets and info in case of actual evacution. Also being on board during drills where the stimulated actual smoke conditions, all crew member involved, seriously following procedures. I always felt safe and impressed with the deligence of the crew.

 

These is one of the many reason why I sail NCL. I also check each ships CDC ratings and NCL ships always appear to be 95 to 100% compliance with health regulations.

 

No matter what cabin I chose, no matter where I sail from, I really believe NCL is top notch on safety. The only concern I have lately is the the huge mega ships. Living in NYC, I don't want to travel with 4,000 other people. It is enough I take the subway.

[electricron]

I think one lesson that should be learned by all is not to put on your lifejacket until you reach open decks. Just about all the bodies found below decks had their lifejackets on - trapping them where they were. In a panic, they may not have thought to remove them so they could swim underwater to escape. I realize that many passengers couldn't swim, so they would have become trapped anyways, but we'll never know how many. We do know that most found below decks had their lifejackets on.

Carry your lifejackets, don them only when required should be preached over and over again.

[skt4cruise]

I think one lesson that should be learned by all is not to put on your lifejacket until you reach open decks. Just about all the bodies found below decks had their lifejackets on - trapping them where they were. In a panic, they may not have thought to remove them so they could swim underwater to escape. I realize that many passengers couldn't swim, so they would have become trapped anyways, but we'll never know how many. We do know that most found below decks had their lifejackets on.

Carry your lifejackets, don them only when required should be preached over and over again.

 

I think you have that mixed up with flying, I have always been instructed to come to the muster station WITH your life jacket ON. On flights you are instructed NOT to inflate.