Crown princess steaming home!

[Mary Ellen1]

If I were on the CDC team I would not rule out HVAC, not as a source but as a "vector". Who has cruised who has not had an occaisional unpleasant moment shortly after flushing the the vacuum activated toilets? You know some aerosol and thus airborne virus has to be present at about the level of the bathroom vent. And where does that air go? Possibly there is a breach in the sewer lines somewhere adjacent to an air inlet. I can hardly count the times that hallways have reeked of sewage, yes it could just be the more volatile and virus free odors, or it could be an aerosol being generated in the system somewhere.

 

Ew... But you have an interesting theory... Here's a very gross fact that supports what you say: all odors are particulate. ew-ick-ew! :eek:

[HazyDavy]

I wonder if the Marriott resort knows they are receiving 100s of quarantined/sick guests? I also wonder if those quarantined will be in different busses than those that are not? Do they make a bus with multiple restrooms? I sure wouldn't want to be the driver. .

 

 

If I was suffering from noro, or recovering from noro, the last place I would want to be is on a bus for 3 or more hours.

 

If I was lucky enough to escape contracting noro on the Crown, why would I want to share a bus with potential carriers?

 

I appreciate the fact that Princess is arranging hotel rooms for guests put off the ship, but I wouldn't take a 3 hour bus ride to get to Orlando. No hotels in Lauderdale or Miami?

[chrysalis]

If I was suffering from noro, or recovering from noro, the last place I would want to be is on a bus for 3 or more hours.

 

If I was lucky enough to escape contracting noro on the Crown, why would I want to share a bus with potential carriers?

 

I appreciate the fact that Princess is arranging hotel rooms for guests put off the ship, but I wouldn't take a 3 hour bus ride to get to Orlando. No hotels in Lauderdale or Miami?

 

Perhaps it is the healthy ones going to Orlando, and the sick ones to hotels very close by the pier.

[cruzinchris]

Keeping your stateroom clean is a good thing, but you aren't going to spend all of your time in your quarters. You venture out with hundreds of other passengers who might already be affected by the virus.

 

I mentioned in my review of the Crown Princess last week that the carpet and furniture looked dirty and worn. Our stateroom carpet was cleaned on Monday, but this was not by request; it was "scheduled" for cleaning. I wonder how frequently carpet in staterooms and/or public venues is cleaned and not just vacuumed.

 

How often are upholstered chairs/loveseats/sofas cleaned? I can't recall ever having noticed furniture not in use, so I have to wonder how often the upholstery is thoroughly cleaned? Perhaps it is done when the ship is in drydock. DH and I have our carpets cleaned annually and upholstered furniture every two-three years. Even with only two of us in the house most of the time, I know that we probably leave body fluids, dead skin cells, etc. on the furniture. Just think of all of the "germs" that are deposited on upholstered chairs, loveseats, and sofas on a cruise ship from one voyage to another :eek:

 

When the Crown Princess arrives back in Fort Lauderdale and prior to another sailing, I hope that all carpeting and upholstered furniture will be deep-cleaned before another shipload of passengers embarks. jmo

Chris

[AttilaTheFun]

I'm on the same boat of "seriously, how many Noro threads do we need" and I'm going to add the "seriously, why do non-professionals think they are coming up with solutions to Noro that the CDC and Princess haven't already considered"? As the uninformed public, I think it's pointless for us to suggest solutions when there are actual professionals who are employed to work on such things. :rolleyes:

[caribill]

carriers?

 

I appreciate the fact that Princess is arranging hotel rooms for guests put off the ship, but I wouldn't take a 3 hour bus ride to get to Orlando. No hotels in Lauderdale or Miami?

 

Finding 1500 rooms of decent quality at the height of the winter season is not easy in South Florida.

[NRG]

Looking at the news reports over 300 passengers are sick and over 60 of the crew... Looks like a great deal if you didn't get sick though - a full refund, and a 25% credit towards your next cruise....

 

How is this a great deal? Are their flights being refunded? Are their bosses giving them another week of vacation time? There are no ports or entertaiment on this sailing and anyone still healthy is probably afraid to go out of their cabins much less enjoy the food. The OP has a great attitude and is making the best of a bad situation but this is NOT good.

[sunsetbeachgal]

There are no winners in this situation, period. But to me it sounds like Princess financial reparations to those on board is very fair (although I'm sure we will read posts from those who think otherwise!).

[JimmyVWine]

How is this a great deal? Are their flights being refunded? Are their bosses giving them another week of vacation time? There are no ports or entertaiment on this sailing and anyone still healthy is probably afraid to go out of their cabins much less enjoy the food. The OP has a great attitude and is making the best of a bad situation but this is NOT good.

+1. "Here you go Mrs. Lincoln. We're going to refund the price of tonight's performance and give you a 25% discount on a future play at Ford's Theater."

 

Don't get me wrong. I am not complaining about Princess' offer one bit. I think they are doing the right thing. (Well, maybe cancelling the sailing from the get-go and allowing the ship and the crew a week to recover might have been better...but that ship has sailed. Literally). But to think that anyone is coming out ahead on this is silly. Ask yourself this. If on embarkation day, a magic genie appeared and said that he could arrange it so that your trip would be transformed into a truncated cruise to nowhere with sick passengers and crew members puking all over the place, and you would get your money back plus a 25% future discount, would you do it? Or would you rather keep your current itinerary? Easy answer.

[Loonbeam]

I'd like to say this is why you buy travel insurance, but in this case I will be interested to see how the insurers respond to requests for compensation, since technically they did get a 5 day cruise and 2 days of land stay...

 

+1. "Here you go Mrs. Lincoln. We're going to refund the price of tonight's performance and give you a 25% discount on a future play at Ford's Theater."

 

Don't get me wrong. I am not complaining about Princess' offer one bit. I think they are doing the right thing. (Well, maybe cancelling the sailing from the get-go and allowing the ship and the crew a week to recover might have been better...but that ship has sailed. Literally). But to think that anyone is coming out ahead on this is silly. Ask yourself this. If on embarkation day, a magic genie appeared and said that he could arrange it so that your trip would be transformed into a truncated cruise to nowhere with sick passengers and crew members puking all over the place, and you would get your money back plus a 25% future discount, would you do it? Or would you rather keep your current itinerary? Easy answer.

[RickEk]

The question is what will Princess do DIFFERENTLY this time that they haven't done before?

Yes they are working with the CDC...please don't remention it, but perhaps they should replace the entire crew.

 

Do you know how long noroviruses last on contaminated surfaces????

Since viruses are neither alive nor dead. they're like zombies - always in a dangerous and active state until they're completely destroyed. Since viruses are only genetic material and protein, they don't have to have metabolism. They use the protein-making machinery of the cells they infect. So, technically, they can't die... and can last indefinitely on a doorknob, stair rail, etc until they run into a host cell for some reason. Some viruses have been extracted from dinosaur remains... and are still infective. And although some companies advertise they have products that can "kill" viruses...they actually only denature the proteins. This prohibits the virus from being infective, but technically doesn't "kill" them.

 

So, the answer the question is... forever.

 

Thus my question to Princess...WHAT are you going to do differently when the ship arrives back in FLL.

 

So we're all doomed?! :rolleyes:

[Mrs. Wilburforce]

There are no winners in this situation, period. But to me it sounds like Princess financial reparations to those on board is very fair (although I'm sure we will read posts from those who think otherwise!).

 

I agree with this sentiment and I feel very bad for those who may have to wait another 6 months to a year to travel.

There really is no perfect solution.

[redrightreturning]

I'd like to say this is why you buy travel insurance, but in this case I will be interested to see how the insurers respond to requests for compensation, since technically they did get a 5 day cruise and 2 days of land stay...

 

And a full refund.......

[cruisin42]

My thoughts are that if Princess does not replace the entire crew then, if, out of maybe 1000 crew or more on board, only 100 crewmembers get sick at a time. This could possibly be a revolving door of a self perpetuating virus for gosh knows how long for many future passengers.

[JimmyVWine]

And a full refund.......

There's your answer right there. Insurance exists to reimburse you for out of pocket expenses. In other words, it is supposed to keep you from going into the "red" (or minimize, per the terms and conditions of the contract, your "redness"). It is not designed to put you in the "black". If you aren't our of pocket anything, there is nothing for the insurance to pay.

 

The more interesting question (if you think about these things;)) is whether Princess has any business interruption insurance (or any other type of applicable insurance) that will reimburse it for all of the refunds and travel arrangements that it is shouldering.

[redrightreturning]

There's your answer right there. Insurance exists to reimburse you for out of pocket expenses. In other words, it is supposed to keep you from going into the "red" (or minimize, per the terms and conditions of the contract, your "redness"). It is not designed to put you in the "black". If you aren't our of pocket anything, there is nothing for the insurance to pay.

 

The more interesting question (if you think about these things;)) is whether Princess has any business interruption insurance (or any other type of applicable insurance) that will reimburse it for all of the refunds and travel arrangements that it is shouldering.

 

 

Well, if you do think about those things, let's work it through. Take the Crown Class vessels at full pax capacity c.3100 x a conservative average of $800 cruise fare per pax you've got $2.48 mil in revenue x 52 cruises/year equals $129 mil annually x ships in the fleet..............not to mention lost onboard revenue...........

 

My guess is the premium would be cost prohibitive and Princess would just roll the dice and eat it (as they are now) if it happened.

 

As it stands, they are probably out about $4 mil. Just a guess. Chump change for them.

[cruiser2053]

I'm looking for some clarification and I understand that hand sanitisers are not the answer but IMO better than nothing. So many people are saying that they should contain bleach but see below. CDC say it should be alcohol based why are so many people saying bleach?

Stop the Spread of Norovirus

 

Practice proper hand hygiene

 

Wash your hands carefully with soap and water, especially after using the toilet and changing diapers and always before eating or preparing food. If soap and water aren't available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer. These alcohol-based products can quickly reduce the number of germs on hands in some situations, but they are not a substitute for washing with soap and water.

 

 

Jeff

[Loonbeam]

The sanitizer IS better than nothing. First, it helps with bugs other than NORO. Second the motions of sanitizing can help clear the virus away from the most likely contact areas. But alcohol based sanitizers won't kill enough of the virus to stop contamination, and since it stays on the skin it doesn't remove it from play.

 

Soap and water physically removes the virus from your hands at that time...

 

 

I'm looking for some clarification and I understand that hand sanitisers are not the answer but IMO better than nothing. So many people are saying that they should contain bleach but see below. CDC say it should be alcohol based why are so many people saying bleach?

Stop the Spread of Norovirus

 

Practice proper hand hygiene

 

Wash your hands carefully with soap and water, especially after using the toilet and changing diapers and always before eating or preparing food. If soap and water aren't available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer. These alcohol-based products can quickly reduce the number of germs on hands in some situations, but they are not a substitute for washing with soap and water.

 

 

Jeff

[A Sixth?]

where did people hear that they are shipping passengers to the Orlando area... the news release says nothing except that the ship is returning to ft Liquordale.

 

http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na1210

[roe2ship]

where did people hear that they are shipping passengers to the Orlando area... the news release says nothing except that the ship is returning to ft Liquordale.

 

http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na1210

 

The OP reported it back a few pages.

[Cindy]

where did people hear that they are shipping passengers to the Orlando area... the news release says nothing except that the ship is returning to ft Liquordale.

 

http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na1210

 

I believe it is the passengers on a back-to-back who will be accommodated at a Marriott in Orlando. Saturday morning they will be bussed back to PE for the second leg of their trip. Those passengers are also receiving a per-diem to cover their meals while they're off the ship.

[A Sixth?]

I believe it is the passengers on a back-to-back who will be accommodated at a Marriott in Orlando. Saturday morning they will be bussed back to PE for the second leg of their trip. Those passengers are also receiving a per-diem to cover their meals while they're off the ship.

 

Ah... that makes some sense.

 

So what's happening to those who have return flights Saturday or Sunday?

[reefisher]

Instead of posting your question here, why don't you ask Princess directly either through an email or on their FB page?

 

And where do you propose they get the 1200 or so crew members from, and what do they do with the current crew, fire them? If the virus lasts forever perhaps they should just burn the ship and let it sink to the bottom of the ocean. :rolleyes:

 

No you give two weeks leave, cancel sailing for two weeks, or hire real scientists from the private sector not CDC, and maybe in one to twelve months (viruses are hard to work with) they will have an answer. First option sounds better to me. I think the posters point is that you can not kill something that is technically not alive. But off course burning the ship is an option. As a stockholder I protest.

[gertz]

Just my 2 cents.

We just returned last week sometime from the Panama Canal Island Princess cruise and had a wonderful time. Never a word on NORO or anything else.

However, about two days prior to arriving in FLL I started feeling not so good and by the time we got home I was feeling very bad and headed for the doctor. Never sick at my stomach but very sick. Bronchitis was the diagnose. Now two trips to the doctor and all sorts of antibiotics including an inhaler to help breathing I am feeling better.

My conclusion, it is something I just picked up, could have been anyplace like the airplane. And I think blaming it on the airline is just as valid as blaming it on Princess. But the person I picked it from picked it up from someone else. So on and on and on and on. It will never end. Turn it into the insurance. Think they would laugh at me and I would probably agree with them.

So maybe as we were returning I passed it on to some one going on the Crown. I don't like the over crowded Crown anyway so why not.

My statement makes about as much since as any other so why not. The truth is IMO a bunch of people got sick and no one knows exactly why. guess it will run its course, who knows.

Will I cancel our next cruse because of it? NO. But consider this. Prior to boarding you must sign one of the "sick" form that ask all sorts of questions on how are you or have you been coughing and so on prior to boarding. My question, have you ever signed one saying your had any symptoms of being sick? I have not and know of no one that has. That's my 2 cents.

[iriemon]

. Prior to boarding you must sign one of the "sick" form that ask all sorts of questions on how are you or have you been coughing and so on prior to boarding. My question, have you ever signed one saying your had any symptoms of being sick? I have not and know of no one that has. That's my 2 cents.[/size]

 

Yes those questions are about as silly/valid as when they use to ask you when you were boarding the plane if you were carrying any weapons - I am sure all the terrorists answered yes to that (No I am not comparing the people on the Crown to terrorist - just an example)