22 Passengers Robbed On Excursion...

[skittl1321]

(on a side note...22 people couldn't take down one man??)

 

I don't think it is logical to try to take someone down who is threatening, but not acting. Because he'll shoot in the process. Giving up your stuff makes a lot more sense. No one got hurt that way.

 

 

How did Carnival compensate the passengers?

[welldone60]

Think what you like , just know going in that you put the lives of your family in danger when you travel to the Western side.If you have already booked just stay on the ship .Be safe it's really not worth getting hurt or robbed over

 

Using your logic, you should not get off the ship in Nassau, Jamaica, St. Kitts, St. Lucia, St. Thomas, or San Juan.

 

 

Or visit most cities in the united states.

[cdamion]

This makes it worse! People walking around on a tour and a gunman robbed them?? (on a side note...22 people couldn't take down one man??) I'd like to think the bus driver COULD HAVE sped up, driven past the gunman, etc. But a group of people making their way to a zipline tour and someone just jumps out at them??

 

I don't believe it was the private property of a zip line company. I think it was a public trail in a remote area of the mountains.

 

And yes, I do think this is better than an organized group of people with automatic weapons, which to me would seem to be cartel violence.

 

In the other ports (none in Mexico) where excursion buses were robbed, they couldn't just drive around because there was some type of road block set up. In St. Kitts it was a tree knocked down across the road.

 

In Nassau, a tour from one of the ships was robbed at Queen's Staircase. If you are familiar with Nassau, you know that is a tourist attraction right in the heart of the town only blocks from the terminal. Other cruise excursions were robbed elsewhere on the island. This has all occurred in the last 3-4 years.

 

My point is simply that people are attacking Mexico (rightly or wrongly), but completely being oblivious to very similar risks to cruisers that exist in many other places.

 

The fact remains that all of these incidents are exceedingly rare.

[Notreallyacruiser]

Glad it was just robbery and not worse. I cannot for the life of me understand why people still continue to travel to Mexico. It is NOT like going to Vegas, yes Vegas and other US cities have what is considered high level of crime but its on a predictable level. You know where the bad areas are, you know most crime is at night, you know to stay in groups, take taxis after dark, etc etc. With a level of predictability you can drastically reduce your chances of being a victim. But that is not to say you'll be completely immune even with precautions, there are isolated incidences any where and at any time. But that is NOT the case with Mexico, crime has sharply increased over the past few years, and is on such a fluid level it has no predictability whatsoever, it happens anywhere any time, day or night, and doesn't even have to be a remote location and this is no longer isolated, its commonplace and widespread. I would encourage everyone to read what the State Dept has to say, a new warning was just issued a few weeks ago, see link:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5665.html

[cdamion]

Glad it was just robbery and not worse. I cannot for the life of me understand why people still continue to travel to Mexico. It is NOT like going to Vegas, yes Vegas and other US cities have what is considered high level of crime but its on a predictable level. You know where the bad areas are, you know most crime is at night, you know to stay in groups, take taxis after dark, etc etc. With a level of predictability you can drastically reduce your chances of being a victim. But that is not to say you'll be completely immune even with precautions, there are isolated incidences any where and at any time. But that is NOT the case with Mexico, crime has sharply increased over the past few years, and is on such a fluid level it has no predictability whatsoever, it happens anywhere any time, day or night, and doesn't even have to be a remote location and this is no longer isolated, its commonplace and widespread. I would encourage everyone to read what the State Dept has to say, a new warning was just issued a few weeks ago, see link:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5665.html

 

Hold on a moment, let me copy a link from another thread with the state department's comments on several other Caribbean ports.

 

Predictable level in Vegas? Including the shootouts at the MGM, Caesars and NY NY?

[cdamion]

Here is more info for Carnival's most common ports in Mexico and the Caribbean directly from the State Department (complete with links so you can for yourself). This is quoting the US Government's own website and as such is part of the public domain, so no copyright infringement.

 

Bahamas:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...989.html#crime

 

"High crime rate with three separate groups of tourists robbed near Nassau, plus rise in violent crime recently."

 

Belize:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...055.html#crime

 

"Armed robberies of tourists remain a possibility at archeological sites, national parks, and other areas frequented by visitors"

 

Jamaica:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...147.html#crime

 

"In several cases, armed robberies of U.S. citizens have turned violent when the victims resisted handing over valuables. Crime is exacerbated by the fact that police are understaffed and often ineffective."

 

St. Lucia:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...027.html#crime

 

"Crime, including armed robbery, does occur and is rising in St. Lucia"

 

Honduras (Roatan):

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...135.html#crime

 

"Crime is widespread in Honduras and requires a high degree of caution by U.S. visitors and residents alike. U.S. citizens have been the victims of a wide range of crimes, including murder, kidnapping, rape, assault, and property crimes."

 

"An October 2011 United Nations report on crime and drugs ranked Honduras as having the highest per capita homicide rate in the world at 82.1 homicides for every 100,000 inhabitants."

 

"Copan, Roatan/Bay Islands, and other tourist destinations have a lower crime rate than other parts of the country, but thefts, break-ins, assaults, and murders do occur."

 

St. Kitts:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...026.html#crime

 

"St. Kitts and Nevis experienced an increase in violent crime in 2008. Also, petty street crime and burglary continue to occur."

 

Mexico:

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...970.html#crime

 

"The Mexican government makes a considerable effort to protect U.S. citizens and other visitors traveling to major tourist destinations. Resort areas and tourist destinations in Mexico generally do not see the levels of violence and crime reported in the border region and in areas along major trafficking routes. Nevertheless, crime and violence are serious problems."

 

Barbados & Cayman Islands: Appear to be the safest places in the Caribbean to visit - particularly the Cayman Islands.

[cdamion]

An individual may unfortunately get robbed here and there..but I have never, ever read of a tour bus full of people in those cities stated above being boarded and robbed at gunpoint. not likely to happen...unless the tour driver is in on it....so it is news worthy..because many travelers assume they are safe on a guided excursion..and that is not necessarity the case...so better to be informed and aware

 

Not in the listed cities, but certainly in Bahamas (more than one), St. Lucia (more than one), St. Kitts., and Jamaica. All within the last 3 or so years.

 

Bahamas:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?id=3563

 

http://www.time.com/time/travel/arti...992105,00.html

 

Jamaica:

 

http://www.travelblog.org/Topics/5764-1.html

 

St. Lucia:

 

http://www.internationalcruisevictim...as_Westby.html

(cruise hate sites have more details about apparent cover-ups of a couple more cruise excursion robberies in St. Lucia, but I can't - and don't want to post links to those individuals)

 

St. Kitts:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4232

[Notreallyacruiser]

CDAMION - Good homework, yes those are all some of the more dangerous places to travel though still pale to Mexico. Guatemala is pretty unsafe too. Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama are better, but that is all relative.

 

Here's some surprises, Colombia..while the State Dept still hasn't backed off warnings there they do finally admit significant improvements, see link:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1090.html

"The Department of State warns U.S. citizens of the dangers of travel to Colombia. Security in Colombia has improved significantly in recent years, including in tourist and business travel destinations like Cartagena and Bogota, but violence by narco-terrorist groups continues to affect some rural areas and large cities."

 

I would definitely go to Colombia before I went to Mexico, quite a switch from even 5 years ago and still improves.

 

Here's another surprise, you wouldn't think the Sultanate of Oman to be safe given its location and being right next to Yemen but in fact its one of the safest countries in the world. This is a model country page for the State Dept its basically a glowing report, they only mention terrorism as a possibility, of course it would be irresponsible to say otherwise but its never occurred and street crime is very low, violent crime almost nonexistent:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_991.html

[waldocruiser1]

People get robbed in Las Vegas, Orlando, Myrtle Beach. Why is this news worthy? Crime happens everywhere, with or without guns.

 

Because in Las Vegas, Orlando, and Myrtle beach, you NEVER here of a bus being held up at gun point.

 

So if it is not news worthy, why are you reading about it?

[jillmom2]

Not in the listed cities, but certainly in Bahamas (more than one), St. Lucia (more than one), St. Kitts., and Jamaica. All within the last 3 or so years.

 

Bahamas:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?id=3563

 

http://www.time.com/time/travel/arti...992105,00.html

 

Jamaica:

 

http://www.travelblog.org/Topics/5764-1.html

 

St. Lucia:

 

http://www.internationalcruisevictim...as_Westby.html

(cruise hate sites have more details about apparent cover-ups of a couple more cruise excursion robberies in St. Lucia, but I can't - and don't want to post links to those individuals)

 

St. Kitts:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4232

Oh I agree...I am always very cautious with what I do in the Caribbean...anywhere..I was just making reference to the U.S. cities the poster had listed...trying to state that he said crime happens in any city...not likely to happen here very often..and I live outside Detroit....but those places you stated yes, be very aware of what activities you choose to do...

[CWcruisers]

Because in Las Vegas, Orlando, and Myrtle beach, you NEVER here of a bus being held up at gun point.

 

So if it is not news worthy, why are you reading about it?

 

And a bus was not held up at gun point in Puerta Vallarta either. Have you seen the latest details?

[scvgirl]

And a bus was not held up at gun point in Puerta Vallarta either. Have you seen the latest details?

I second that. A bus was not involved in the incident. Passengers were on a nature trail when they were confronted by the gunman.

[Equest]

For 2009 the US robbery rate was 125.1 per 100,000. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0321.pdf

For 2009 the US death rate for motor vehicle accidents was 11 per 100,000

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1103.pdf

I will take my chances and continue to cruise.

[cdamion]

CDAMION - Good homework, yes those are all some of the more dangerous places to travel though still pale to Mexico. Guatemala is pretty unsafe too. Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama are better, but that is all relative.

 

 

My entire point arguing throughout this and another thread is that all of the other islands have risks too that people completely ignore. You seem to know about these and other destinations and make your decisions based on what you have read. You are being an informed traveler.

 

However, other people complaining about Mexico would not think twice about wandering the French Quarter at night before a New Orleans departure, or hiking a remote trail in Jamaica. Both of which have a degree of risk associated with them. (I mention New Orleans because that is where I was almost robbed - still love and go to the city).

 

I don't agree on completely avoiding Mexico. I will be there aboard Splendor in less than a month with my kids, and back again near Tulum on a land-based trip in June. I am not worried about either (although I probably won't head to the trail where the robbery occurred, which I was going to do). I also won't head to those areas of high violence in Mexico anytime soon.

[mjl1960]

I don't care where you go, if you want complete security, stay on the ship...there will always be incidents, and those incidents will always get everyone's attention, but that does not mean that it happens like that every day there. Most of the ports, and excursions have a lot of security around them, because they don't want these incidents to happen and do everything to discourage them because they want our money. Ask the people in Mazatlan what the economic impact was when everyone quit going there...

[CWcruisers]

I know some of us on the various threads that popped up after this incident have said that we feel that some of the news media is sensationalizing exactly what is going on in Mexico, and I'm not trying to say that what happened wasn't significant, but, I have copied this from the home page of these boards under the story of how the ships will not be pulled from Puerta Vallarta, and it's written today:

[I]The ill-fated tour took [/I][URL="http://www.cruisecritic.com/reviews/review.cfm?ShipID=375"][I]Carnival Splendor[/I][/URL][I] passengers to El Nogalito, an area some 40 miles outside of Puerto Vallarta known for its lush natural setting. While they were returning to the ship, masked assailants stopped the bus and robbed the cruisers of their money, watches, cameras and other valuables. A statement from Carnival said there were no injuries, and all passengers returned safely to the ship.
[/I]
My question is, now that we know they were not on the bus and it was a lone attacker, why is this misinformation still being printed? The story broke the same way in the San Diego Union Tribune this morning. A passenger was interviewed that was one of the 22 and confirmed it was on a walking trail.

[cathyz]

[quote name='CWcruisers']I know some of us on the various threads that popped up after this incident have said that we feel that some of the news media is sensationalizing exactly what is going on in Mexico, and I'm not trying to say that what happened wasn't significant, but, I have copied this from the home page of these boards under the story of how the ships will not be pulled from Puerta Vallarta, and it's written today:

[I]The ill-fated tour took [/I][URL="http://www.cruisecritic.com/reviews/review.cfm?ShipID=375"][I]Carnival Splendor[/I][/URL][I] passengers to El Nogalito, an area some 40 miles outside of Puerto Vallarta known for its lush natural setting. While they were returning to the ship, masked assailants stopped the bus and robbed the cruisers of their money, watches, cameras and other valuables. A statement from Carnival said there were no injuries, and all passengers returned safely to the ship.
[/I]
My question is, now that we know they were not on the bus and it was a lone attacker, why is this misinformation still being printed? The story broke the same way in the San Diego Union Tribune this morning. A passenger was interviewed that was one of the 22 and confirmed it was on a walking trail.[/QUOTE]
Journalists love to sensationalize everything. One bandito on a remote trail isn't nearly as newsworthy.

[cdamion]

Off topic, but I was just thinking about the State Department warnings posted for Honduras that I linked before. Right after arriving in Honduras we were in a (sort of) taxi on our way up to Copan from San Pedro Sula.

If you look at the warnings, tourists there are getting robbed (1) in taxis from the airport and (2) on the road to Copan which (3) you should never be on after dark.

So here we are going on the road to Copan when the taxi blows a tire. We pull over to change the tire. I get out to help the driver and in the trunk is a little weenie wheel, a crowbar, and two broken jacks. The driver couldn't get service on the cell and we are stranded (1) in a taxi from the airport (2) on the road to Copan and (3) now it is starting to get dark.

Three big guys with machetes now emerge from the hills and come towards us. I figure we are done now. They come up and start talking to the driver. One guy partially fixed the jack with the machete and rocks somehow, then all 3 helped lift the car enough to get the tire changed.

In so many different ways that story could have ended differently, but as it turns out despite the terrible crime in that country, the people who live there are very very friendly and helpful.

[CWcruisers]

[quote name='cathyz']Journalists love to sensationalize everything. One bandito on a remote trail isn't nearly as newsworthy.[/quote]


I know, but couldn't some of the violence, death and destruction happening in Mexico also be sensationalized causing people to formulate opinions. If they are willing to do it once, they'll do it again.

[CWcruisers]

[quote name='cdamion']Off topic, but I was just thinking about the State Department warnings posted for Honduras that I linked before. Right after arriving in Honduras we were in a (sort of) taxi on our way up to Copan from San Pedro Sula.

If you look at the warnings, tourists there are getting robbed (1) in taxis from the airport and (2) on the road to Copan which (3) you should never be on after dark.

So here we are going on the road to Copan when the taxi blows a tire. We pull over to change the tire. I get out to help the driver and in the trunk is a little weenie wheel, a crowbar, and two broken jacks. The driver couldn't get service on the cell and we are stranded (1) in a taxi from the airport (2) on the road to Copan and (3) now it is starting to get dark.

Three big guys with machetes now emerge from the hills and come towards us. I figure we are done now. They come up and start talking to the driver. One guy partially fixed the jack with the machete and rocks somehow, then all 3 helped lift the car enough to get the tire changed.

In so many different ways that story could have ended differently, but as it turns out despite the terrible crime in that country, the people who live there are very very friendly and helpful.[/quote]


I think that's the point you and I have been trying to make over the last few days. A entire country is being condemned when there are really great people and places to visit and they are being hurt in this whole mess also.

[ib4cruzn]

[quote name='CWcruisers']
My question is, now that we know they were not on the bus and it was a lone attacker, why is this misinformation still being printed? The story broke the same way in the San Diego Union Tribune this morning. A passenger was interviewed that was one of the 22 and confirmed it was on a walking trail.[/QUOTE]

Does somehow "not being on a bus" make it better?

I would much rather be in the safety of a vehicle than on a trail having to wonder what/who is behind every tree with a machete!

That's just me though...

[ib4cruzn]

[quote name='CWcruisers']I think that's the point you and I have been trying to make over the last few days. A entire country is being condemned when there are really great people and places to visit and they are being hurt in this whole mess also.[/QUOTE]

This is true but why would these people rob each other when they can target those with disposable income?

If you think about it, they're pretty smart and the "marks" come to them!

In New York when you're mugged it's hit and miss as to how much they'll get. Cruise passengers "advertise".

YMMV

[cdamion]

[quote name='ib4cruzn']Does somehow "not being on a bus" make it better?

I would much rather be in the safety of a vehicle than on a trail having to wonder what/who is behind every tree with a machete!

That's just me though...[/QUOTE]

Here is what makes it better for me personally:

Any idiot anywhere can rob somebody with a knife, machete, or gun. Mexico, Chicago, Mayberry, anywhere. Worrying about who is behind every tree would be overly sensitive.

However an organized robbery of a group of people by several banditos with automatic weapons as originally reported is much scarier and much more brazen on behalf of the robbers. Blocking a road and robbing a bus takes more planning and a complete disregard for law enforcement or passers by, which to me would be a sign that maybe the cartels are moving towards the tourist areas.

[cdamion]

[quote name='ib4cruzn']This is true but why would these people rob each other when they can target those with disposable income?

If you think about it, they're pretty smart and the "marks" come to them!

In New York when you're mugged it's hit and miss as to how much they'll get. Cruise passengers "advertise".

YMMV[/QUOTE]

I agree and disagree. Yes, tourists are probably targeted there just like anywhere else in the world. People on vacation (whether they are in Mexico, Nassau, New Orleans, South Beach, or Vegas) have their guard down and are easy pickin'. I bet in any of the places listed, the thugs target tourists. New York police specifically run stings dressing like tourists to catch the punks.

[ib4cruzn]

[quote name='cdamion']Here is what makes it better for me personally:

Any idiot anywhere can rob somebody with a knife, machete, or gun. Mexico, Chicago, Mayberry, anywhere. Worrying about who is behind every tree would be overly sensitive.

However an organized robbery of a group of people by several banditos with automatic weapons as originally reported is much scarier and much more brazen on behalf of the robbers. Blocking a road and robbing a bus takes more planning and a complete disregard for law enforcement or passers by, which to me would be a sign that maybe the cartels are moving towards the tourist areas.[/QUOTE]

So it's better to be robbed in the jungle instead of a coordinated effort in plain sight on a bus?

Cartels?? I'm sorry but I just about busted a gut on that one. I'm sure there's much more money to be had in robbing tourists than one could make in the drug trade.

You had me for a while...