Toddlers and the MDR - AHHHHHHH

[Onessa]

Well where do I start.... Guess first of all I have to say that I'm 60 years old. On our last cruise we had a group of other Old Farts, a table of eight, sitting all week long in the MTD section on the FOS last March. Talk about rude and loud! I must say that these folks were the worst!!... If the seating in the MTD would have had a table for four else were we would have moved in a heartbeat. We have six children ourselves with many grand kids. I have yet to have had any children in the MDR upset our dinners. Not to say it can't happen. Guess we've just been lucky...

 

Enjoy Your Dinner!

Earl & Kathy

I've always contended that the "old" in grumpy old fart does not imply a legal age, but instead a state-of-mind age.

 

My DD's pet peeve is when we are somewhere and she sees adults behaving "poorly". She shakes her head and says "If teenagers were doing that they'd be asked to leave -- and should be. But since these are adults it is somehow or another OK"

[aurelius180]

She shakes her head and says "If teenagers were doing that they'd be asked to leave -- and should be. But since these are adults it is somehow or another OK"

 

It's not OK.

[CaroleSS]

I guess I didn't ask to be moved as there were a large number of us and didn't think that we could be accommodated. In retrospect, I should have.

 

To the point that 'kids' come in all ages, there was a group of drunk passengers at the show on the last night. They choose to stand behind us (we were in the balcony). They were loud and obnoxious and talked through some of the show. DH first respectfully asked them to lower their voices, to which they just got louder. He then highly recommended that they leave and go somewhere else - with the backup of my BIL. They called us a few names but left.

 

I can't honestly say why I let the kid get away with in approprate behavior but ran off the drunks, other than to say that I don't blame the child, but rather the parents. They should have known better!

 

To the question of whether the parents KNEW the kid was being disruptive, I do think they did. Mom used her hand to cover the kid's mouth a few times but that was the extent of her effort to quell the noise.

 

As has been mentioned before, parents should be parents. They are NOT your friend, they are your mentor and your teacher and sometimes they have to do things you don't like, but if THEY don't teach you right from wrong, society will - and it won't be pretty!

[CI66774]

I'm taking my 3 year old on a Disney cruise then on Celebrity. Will I take her to the MDR? You bet! Will I remove her if she's starts crying and making a scene? You bet! Bottom line is a crying baby is NOT a happy baby and others shouldn't be forced to endure the noise. Same for loud, drunken adults, huge party at one table getting too rowdy, etc. It's all about good judgment and respect for others. Both things are in short supply these days.:)

[familycrusingviv]

Did anyone say anything to these inconsiderate parents? Since they were able to tune the crying out, do you think they thought everyone could? Believe me, I'm NOT defending them. I'm just wondering if they were made aware of how uncomfortable the child was making other guests?

 

I have a DIL who is oblivious to an amazing number of things including how loud & disruptive her children could be when they were younger. If she wasn't told to take them out or make them stop running, yelling, crying, whatever, it was like it wasn't happening.................... Needless to say, we didn't spend nearly as much time with that part of the family as we would have liked until the kids were older & had learned some manners!

 

Just wondering, are "these children" your grandchildren?!? You speak of them as your DIL's kids with no relation to you.

Disgusting!

 

Some people are to focused on finding negativity. A table if 7 can be moved, just ask. I have to say as an American living in Europe the Europeans do let children be children. Till I see the no children allowed sign on cruises the shall go with me not everyone can facilitate the dropping off at grandmas, especially if the grandmother considers them her DIL's children not her own grandchildren.

[alohanails]

For the life of me, I can't see why ANYONE would want to bring a toddler to a specialty restaurant.

 

If I were sitting next to a toddler who was loud and I had paid extra to eat, I'd be REALLY upset! (and BTW, I take my baby medium rare!)

 

Several years ago this happened to us....a baby was in a carriage and cried throughout our meal....the head waiter knew we were pissed....he comped our meal with out even asking....why they let them in I do not know....the res was for well after 7....

[phoenix1181]

Just wondering, are "these children" your grandchildren?!? You speak of them as your DIL's kids with no relation to you.

Disgusting!

 

Some people are to focused on finding negativity. A table if 7 can be moved, just ask. I have to say as an American living in Europe the Europeans do let children be children. Till I see the no children allowed sign on cruises the shall go with me not everyone can facilitate the dropping off at grandmas, especially if the grandmother considers them her DIL's children not her own grandchildren.

 

Without knowing my family situation, I find your statement to be rude & uncalled for. The children in question are not "my" grandchildren. Had I attempted to take charge of their behavior, or criticize their upbringing, their parents would have removed them from our lives completely and broken my husband's heart.

 

I hope you never find yourself in a difficult family situation............ You obviously are too opinionated to be able to handle it properly!

[familycrusingviv]

I apologize if i was crude. That makes sense, it did not sound like they were your grandchildren.

 

I usually do not bite but the threads about children as if they were animals is obscene. It's a parental issue bit children at that age decisions are made for them.

 

CC has always been a place to meet fellow cruisers and gather information but others just come to dump hateful statements.

[BeagleOne]

clue-by-four

 

That's brilliant! I think I will steal it. :)

[circuitrider]

Our oldest has been cruising since before he was 3 months old (small technicality, Disney allows newborns 12 weeks and over...he was just over 12 weeks but just under 3 months). He's been all over (and so has his sister). We've gone to specialty restaurants on occasion with him. From memory, he's been in Le Bistro on Norwegian Dream, both kids have been in Salsas and Cagney's on Norwegian Dawn. They've acted fine the few times we've taken them to specialty restaurants, but have acted up on occasion in the MDR (in which case we take them out, wait for them to calm down, and re-enter...occasionally one of us has to leave with one or both kids while the other finishes and brings dessert to the stateroom).

 

If you want to guarantee a completely child-free dining experience, unfortunately the only way is to find a specialty restaurant that doesn't allow children (whether they disallow children completely, or at certain hours). Find out exactly when kids are and aren't allowed (does no kids after 7PM mean no kids at all, or no kids starting their meal after 7?). And if there are kids when there should be none, demand that something be done about it. Because I'll agree with you getting upset if kids are somewhere they shouldn't be. Kids come with us almost 100% of the time, but there are occasions when leaving them behind is nice too (even if just for a couple hours at Palo's).

 

So, to sum up my feelings...kids should be allowed to be anywhere that they are allowed to be (kinda makes sense, doesn't it?). But they should be acting appropriately and if they aren't, need to be removed from that area. Yes, it's your vacation, but it's also your kids' vacation, the fellow diners' vacation, etc.

[redpatti]

So, to sum up my feelings...kids should be allowed to be anywhere that they are allowed to be (kinda makes sense, doesn't it?). But they should be acting appropriately and if they aren't, need to be removed from that area. Yes, it's your vacation, but it's also your kids' vacation, the fellow diners' vacation, etc.

 

Totally agree!!!

[andiloveu]

Not the case for all parents these days, at least not for us. Hubby and I will be going on a 10th anniversary cruise next year and leaving our son with his Gigi. He will be 4 when we go, and we will be leaving him home for a couple of reasons. 1: It's our anniversary. 2: We want to eat dinner at the specialty restaurants and MDR 3: He's not ready for a 7-day, which includes a 7-hour (one-way) drive to Miami and back. It shouldn't be that hard for parents to weigh that sort of thing out. On top of that, I will be aggravated if I'm around misbehaving children and uncaring parents on our cruise, and will not apologize for it. :)

We are right there with you. My husband and I did not take our sons on a cruise till they were 8 and 10. We went on vacations that were more little kid friendly. Plus I did not want to be stuck in a small room with toddlers. I think alot boils down to how people parent. I have seen people allow their kids to run wild and it amazes me. Once our boys saw some kids acting up and our boys said "That mom and dad didn't teach them right." LOL Have a great time on your anniversary cruise. We will going this year for our 20th. Happy Cruising! Andi:)

[bralli]

I posted this in another thread, but I am a dad of four girls and we have been cruising many times since the first was born. Maybe my kids are just wonderful (they are of course...) but I've never once had a bad experience with an older passenger giving us attitude about my kids on the ship. If anything it's really been the opposite with many people interacting with my kids and generally being very complementary. I think for the most part most cruisers nowadays understand that cruises ARE for all ages and are marketed as such, including kids in the main dining room. Keep in mind that even the toddler is paying full fair for the cruise.

 

That being said, as someone who takes my kids out to eat regularly I think all parents should respect that a crying or screaming child SHOULD be removed from the dining room ASAP, that's just common courtesy. Also, toddlers are just plain messy. As much as I try to control my youngest child, she always leaves a mess under her chair; but little children should not be permitted to throw food. I also don't take my toddler age children to any of the shows.

 

As someone mentioned, I've found the loudest disruption in the dining room has been boisterous older passengers having a good time (and more power to them!).

 

We are right there with you. My husband and I did not take our sons on a cruise till they were 8 and 10. We went on vacations that were more little kid friendly. Plus I did not want to be stuck in a small room with toddlers. I think alot boils down to how people parent. I have seen people allow their kids to run wild and it amazes me. Once our boys saw some kids acting up and our boys said "That mom and dad didn't teach them right." LOL Have a great time on your anniversary cruise. We will going this year for our 20th. Happy Cruising! Andi

 

I tell you what, I think cruises are about the MOST kid friendly vacations you can take with your younger children. It's MUCH less stressful dealing with my kids on a ship than at Disneyland or a Hawaiian beach rental. You can feed them whenever. The kids programs are awesome. Even the most hyperactive toddler is going to have plenty of sights and sounds to enthrall their attention.

[Stratus22]

We are going on our first family cruise as well and look forward to every minute spent with the kids. I hear the Adventure Ocean program is outstanding on RCCL. My oldest is so excited. Cruise on!!!!

[ducklite]

This "pithy" comment really is not at all humorous and really will only inflame this discussion.

 

I have long been a proponent of bringing your kids on vacation with you and having them eat with you in the MDR.

 

But I would like someone like the OP to be able to politely point out that while it is OK for a family to eat together in the MDR, that if one of the kids is having a hard time, that it really is the parents/guardians' responsibility to deal with that situation. And while the parents may be accustomed to a slightly higher level of commotion at home, they need to be sensitive to the fact that they are in a public place and that the level of commotion that is acceptatble at home, may not be acceptable in that particular venue.

 

I do recall times with my little one (now 16YO!) when we would excuse ourselves (either DH and DD, or me and DD) during a meal to work out a clearly impending issue! DD was a pretty tolerant kid, but had she not been, we definately would not have done some of the things we did try with her.

 

This is a very well written post. There is nothing wrong with bringing children of any age to the MDR, however parents need to be considerate and prepared. Have the kids take a nap for even 30 minutes to take off the edge. Bring things to keep them amused. And be prepared and willing to leave for a few minutes or the remainder of the meal if need be.

 

Taking kids to the MDR can be a great experience and "training" for them as they continue through their life journey, but parents need to be realistic as far as what their children can handle, and understand that although they might be used to chaotic meals at home, it's inappropriate to expect others to suffer through children who are cranky and melting down or can't use "inside voices."

[Sinppu]

There is nothing wrong with bringing children of any age to the MDR, however parents need to be considerate and prepared.

 

This is the problem. I don't think anyone here wants to ban children from anywhere, if they can behave.

 

Almost always it's the parenting (or a complete lack of it) that's the issue. :rolleyes:

 

Besides, I don't understand how you can compare bad adult behaviour to children. Being loud isn't exactly the same as crying at the top of one's lungs, running around the restaurant uncontrolled or throwing food around. This is tolerated with children :mad:

 

If adults would do those things, I'm pretty sure they would be escorted out very quickly.

 

Or has someone really seen the opposite?

[scarlett81]

I agree with the OP's comments totally.

We just took our 2 little ones on a Crystal cruise and did not permit the kids to be loud, period. We took them outside, left, whatever. However we talked to our DD alot prior to cruising about what was expected of her, and she was not a problem.

That being said I have 2 thoughts:

1, I don't tolerate the kids making noise during meals whether we're on a cruiseship, Disneyworld, McDonald's, wherever. Manners are manners universally. Kids DO need to make noise and run, and they can do that in the yard or our playroom.

2, Little ones need to behave in a grown up setting like a MDR. But I also ask that adults behave as well. We had some adults cursing so loudly through several meals, near our family during dinner and it was very annoying. We had another 'gentleman' seated near us that spoke SO loudly during each meal in the MDR and that was just as distracting as any child.

 

These rules don't just apply to children.

 

And if someone is irritated by my child's noise, you have a right to be. If you are irritated by my child's mere presence, get a life.

[yj2cute]

I agree with the OP's comments totally.

We just took our 2 little ones on a Crystal cruise and did not permit the kids to be loud, period. We took them outside, left, whatever. However we talked to our DD alot prior to cruising about what was expected of her, and she was not a problem.

That being said I have 2 thoughts:

1, I don't tolerate the kids making noise during meals whether we're on a cruiseship, Disneyworld, McDonald's, wherever. Manners are manners universally. Kids DO need to make noise and run, and they can do that in the yard or our playroom.

2, Little ones need to behave in a grown up setting like a MDR. But I also ask that adults behave as well. We had some adults cursing so loudly through several meals, near our family during dinner and it was very annoying. We had another 'gentleman' seated near us that spoke SO loudly during each meal in the MDR and that was just as distracting as any child.

 

These rules don't just apply to children.

 

And if someone is irritated by my child's noise, you have a right to be. If you are irritated by my child's mere presence, get a life.

 

I agree with you 100% and appreciate your parenting style. And I also agree about loud, rowdy adults. There's no place for them in the DR either. Everyone should be respectful of everyone else's right NOT to hear your noise.

[junglejane]

Did this thread get moved here from another board, like the RCCL board? Because it sure seems that way. Well, my 2 cents is that dining with toddlers is always a challenge, more difficult than dining with a baby IMHO. I don't really miss those days (meaning trying to eat in nicer restaurants with toddlers). My kids are now 11 and 15 and have been on 11 cruises. We went on our first family cruise when our youngest was 4, so she was beyond the toddler stage. Rule No. 1 has always been "stay in your seat" unless going with a parent to the restroom. Okay, if a whale is spouting or dolphins are appearing outside the window, you can go look. But otherwise your bottom must be glued to the chair.;) We've happily dined in the MDR and many specialty restaurants. My kids would be the first to object if they saw other kids running around out of their chairs.

 

Speaking of cursing adults, we took our kids to dinner at a churrascaria restaurant in Manhattan. The restaurant had a kids price for the dinner so kids were obviously anticipated. Anyway, about 2/3 of the way through our dinner, they seated a very large (15 or so) party of young 20-something men who must have gotten a head start drinking in the bar. They were loud, drunk, and profane in a very raunchy way, straight out of the Sopranos. The staff tried without success to get them to tone it down and offered to move us. But by that point we were nearly done, so we just hurried to finish, paid our bill and left the restaurant.

[TheCalicoCat]

What is a Windjammer?

[yj2cute]

What is a Windjammer?

 

The casual buffet venue on RCCL ships.

[Karysa]

This is a very well written post. There is nothing wrong with bringing children of any age to the MDR, however parents need to be considerate and prepared. Have the kids take a nap for even 30 minutes to take off the edge. Bring things to keep them amused. And be prepared and willing to leave for a few minutes or the remainder of the meal if need be.

 

Taking kids to the MDR can be a great experience and "training" for them as they continue through their life journey, but parents need to be realistic as far as what their children can handle, and understand that although they might be used to chaotic meals at home, it's inappropriate to expect others to suffer through children who are cranky and melting down or can't use "inside voices."

 

Well put.

[Cuizer2]

What is a Windjammer?

 

A windjammer is the ultimate type of large sailing ship with an iron or for the most part steel hull, built to carry cargo in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. Windjammers were the grandest of merchant sailing ships, with between three and five large masts and square sails, giving them a characteristic profile.

 

 

The windjammers were cargo ships designed for long voyages. They usually carried bulk cargo, such as lumber, guano, grain or ore from one continent to another, usually following the prevailing winds and circumnavigating the globe during their voyages. Several of these ships are still in existence — either as school ships, museum ships or restaurant ships.

 

It is also the name of the buffet on Royal Caribbean ships.

[Warm Breezes]

The solution to this issue is so blindingly obvious that I hate to insult your intelligence by pointing it out. Nevertheless, here goes: parents need to parent. They need to understand what is appropriate behavior and what is not, and they need to know that some behavior will range from appropriate to inappropriate depending on where it occurs.

 

Parents should know their kids well enough to know whether or not they stand a good chance of being able to make it through a sit-down meal without becoming fussy. If so, the MDR is fine. If not, I think the Windjammer is a good alternative -- NOT because the patrons there deserve to suffer, but rather because it's easier to eat quickly and leave if need be.

 

But even the best-behaved kids have their off-moments, and this is when the parents need to remove their kids from the venue unless and until they can calm down. I think this is the crux of the matter. And I think that if most parents did this, the CC anti-kid brigade would have a lot less ammunition.

 

Lest you think I'm of the "ban kids from anyplace where an adult might be present" mindset, think again. I have two kids, ages 5 and 3, and I have no compunction about taking them where we are allowed to be -- including the MDR. However, if they start to act up, out they go. I've removed my kids from McDonald's for misbehaving, so I'll certainly pull 'em out of a more adult-oriented restaurant such as the MDR if the need arises.

 

Totally agree with this. My kids are now 15 and 18. When DS was a baby/toddler we could take him anywhere because he rarely cried and when he did he was easy to calm. On those rare occasions when he did cry, we would simply take him out of the room for a few seconds and that was all we needed. DD on the other hand cried until she could talk. We went for 2 1/2 years avoiding sit down restaurants because she could not be calmed once the crying started. I would not subject anyone to that...it is rude.

 

At that age, the improper behavior is not the child's, it's the parents. They know their kids and what they can handle. Yes there are occassional melt downs by "good kids". The proper resonse with them is to take them out of the room and calm them down. If that can not be done that get your meal to go and leave the other patrons to eat in peace. If you have a child like DD, then don't put the child in those type of situations where you KNOW they will not do well. It's not good for the child or anyone else for that matter. Why subject everyone to that? It's selfish and poor behavior on the part of the parent.

 

IMHO, once children can talk and understand, then discipline takes over. Parents need to teach their children how to act in a sit down restaurant. If you haven't taught your child how to do that, then you may want think twice about putting them through an 1 1/2 - 2 hour meal. Again...why make the child and everyone else suffer? When I say taught your child....I mean no getting up from their chair, inside voices, and eating...not playing with their food. This sometimes means that the parent needs to interact more with the child to keep them patient. For example...playing I Spy or tic tac toe with them. Both of my children could sit through a 2 hour meal by the time they were 3. DS could do it before then. We taught them early what proper behavior was and we interacted with them so they didn't get bored. That was our job as parents.

 

Some parents liked to place blame on the situation (the child is tired or they are hungry). IMHO that's the parents fault. If you know your child is tired or hungry then don't take them to a sit down restaurant where they need to wait for their food. Again this is our job as parents to take care of the needs of our children...we shouldn't subject innocent bystanders to our child's mood because we neglected to get them sleep or food when they needed it.

 

Sorry this long...but I just think if parents would use a little more common sense and discipline (no hitting or even yelling is necessary to properly discipline), then this world would be much better place to be in for all of us.

[njmomof2]

We spent a few years avoiding restaurants because DS1 could not handle the outside dining experience. At first, we thought it was because he was tired or done for the day...then it started at a breakfast place. So we shelved eating out for a while, until he could control himself better in those sorts of situations. I remember having to walk out with him while my husband ate, then he would come and relieve me as I finished. I would never subject anyone else to my personal hell LOL!

 

At young ages, it is about parents doing their job...someone previously said that you are not their friend...you are their teacher and mentor. This is something I work very hard at doing. I love my kids and think they are terrific, but I am first and foremost their mother, and my job is to raise them to be responsible, respectful, productive young men. Unfortunately, I'm the only parent in the house that is doing this, and this is one of the reasons for my impending divorce. It's incredibly hard to teach your children proper respect when their other parent has no respect for anyone...kind of an uphill battle.

 

I think that anyplace that welcomes children must understand that at times, kids are kids. But letting children run around the table, under the table, bumping into other diners, yelling, throwing things, screaming...this is a parent's responsibility to deal with and if it can't be stopped, the child(ren) need to be removed from the situation.

 

I mean, seriously, how often have all of us seen parents at a nice restaurant (heck, it can be any restaurant) after 8 PM with a small child and the poor thing is a wreck. It's way past that kid's tolerance level, but mom and dad wanted to go out and this is when they wanted to go, and kiddo needed to go with them. Why put your child in a situation when you just know they are going to fail? It's totally unfair to everyone, the child most of all.