Let's be realistic on money matters

[calliopecruiser]

Hope this doesn't come across as lecturing, but I can't believe how many posts I've seen here where someone says "it's worth the extra money" to:

 

-- Eat at the up-charge restaurants

-- Get a balcony cabin

-- Go on the best excursions

-- Arrive early and spend a night in the departure city

-- Upgrade to a fancy suite

 

Yes, these are all things that "are worth it" if you have the money, but to many of us, just coming up with the scratch to buy and get to a cruise stretches the budget near the breaking point. Please understand that not everyone on this site is rolling in dough. Some are just trying to squeeze a little "luxury" into into an otherwise getting-by life.

 

By the way, I don't really know where to post this, and it's obvious many of the cruise veterans who offer advice on the first-time cruisers forum are great people willing to spend time helping the newbies.

 

Jim

 

So what's your point? So some people can't afford those things........do you think that means that no one should discuss them or give their opinion on whether or not they think it's worth spending on? It's also true that some people can afford those things and want to discuss them......do you think that they shouldn't discuss them or how much they like them (or what a deal they think they are)?

 

You have to accept that there's a whole range of people with a whole range of expectations and a whole range of financial situations and a whole range of preferences.........none of them are better than the other, and none of them should have to apologize for their preferences, plans, or limits. We're all entitled to post our opinions and share our experiences.

 

I understand this is your opinion, which is fine, but you also seem to be asking others to change what they do (what they post about) to accommodate you, and I don't understand why.

[johneeo]

Yes, I've already said I made a mistake including the early arrival with the other more optional stuff. Arriving early is often a safety measure and not a luxury.

Jim

 

It is certainly a safety measure.

 

But, moreso. We will land in Fort Lauderdale on a Friday at 10:00 AM. We will be checked into a hotel on the beach, and be on the beach by noon. Spend the whole day at the beach, the pool, and relax.

 

On Saturday morning, a short hop to the ship, and should be on by noon at the latest. And all of that for the additional cost of a hotel room and a lunch and a dinner.

 

More than worth it.

[paul929207]

I still don't see how one person's assessment of whether something is "worth it" or not to himself /herself correlates to whether someone else can "afford it" or not. To me they are 2 different things.

 

Through this forum, I am learning other people's experience, which I understand is subjective (and it should be). It gives me a more informed understanding of what the experience will be like if my family and I were on that particular ship, line, cabin, restaurant, excursion, etc. But depends on the price of that particular item, it is my own call whether I want to do it or not, and if I can afford it.

I agree.

 

To me, if someone asks if something is worth it, they are asking my opinion. I will then take my finances, values, experiences, etc. into account when giving an answer. If you ask me is a five million dollar house worth it, my answer is no. I can't afford a house like that.

[dorisis]

I have stayed in a lot of different catagories of cabins from owner's suite to inside with bunk beds. If i wanted to do an around the world cruise and could only afford the cheapest inside, I would do it. If I wanted the largest suite on a luxury ship i would look for the shortest cruise I could manage to pay for.

We all have to make those decisions for ourselves. What is "worth it" to me may not be for someone else and I can only decide for me. If I choose to do 5 cheaper Caribbean cruises than one luxury Asian cruise Who cares but me.

 

~Doris~>Who would love to do the round the world in a luxury ship with a huge suite.

[madelinerose]

....

[jasbo49]

To the OP: I'm not sure I understand...what exactly is your point? Should we ignore the different levels of cruising because some can/can't afford it? Has my budget become your business? Would you like people to stop discussing these topics altogether?

No, your budget is not my business, and I'm not suggesting anyone shouldn't enjoy what they can afford.

 

Obviously I made a big mistake in posting this and/or doing a poor job of explaining myself. I just grew frustrated seeing posts and reviews in which people suggested everybody simply must go on some expensive excursion or eat in an extra-fee restaurant or book a suite. I was suggesting that people who can afford these things keep in mind that not everyone can.

 

I'll just go back to minding my own business now.

 

Jim

[RoofingPrincess]

And FWIW, getting a balcony is not always a huge splurge.

We booked and paid for an inside cabin on our upcoming cruise.

Prices on balcony cabins dropped one weekend to the point where they were $10 per person more than we had paid (and $40 less than cabins in our inside category were currently selling for)... We are now sailing in a balcony for that cruise!

[paul929207]

No, your budget is not my business, and I'm not suggesting anyone shouldn't enjoy what they can afford.

 

Obviously I made a big mistake in posting this and/or doing a poor job of explaining myself. I just grew frustrated seeing posts and reviews in which people suggested everybody simply must go on some expensive excursion or eat in an extra-fee restaurant or book a suite. I was suggesting that people who can afford these things keep in mind that not everyone can.

 

I'll just go back to minding my own business now.

 

Jim

I don't worry about what somebody says I must do. I do what I want to.

[Pangga]

I was suggesting that people who can afford these things keep in mind that not everyone can.

 

Jim...People do keep this in mind.

[aquilegia]

To the OP: I'm not sure I understand...what exactly is your point? Should we ignore the different levels of cruising because some can/can't afford it? Has my budget become your business? Would you like people to stop discussing these topics altogether?

 

I'm with you on this one, Laughing Angel. I can't really see what the OP is getting at either. Often the 'worth it' comments are made in response to a query, but even if they're not, where's the problem. I can't afford a full suite, but when someone on here says their suite was really worth the extra money I don't get upset or feel they shouldn't have mentioned it.

 

No doubt the OP has friends or colleagues who can't afford any sort of cruise. When he gets back, is he going to avoid mentioning he's been on one for fear of seeming insensitive?

[skinslvr26]

Hope this doesn't come across as lecturing, but I can't believe how many posts I've seen here where someone says "it's worth the extra money" to:

 

-- Eat at the up-charge restaurants

-- Get a balcony cabin

-- Go on the best excursions

-- Arrive early and spend a night in the departure city

-- Upgrade to a fancy suite

 

Yes, these are all things that "are worth it" if you have the money, but to many of us, just coming up with the scratch to buy and get to a cruise stretches the budget near the breaking point. Please understand that not everyone on this site is rolling in dough. Some are just trying to squeeze a little "luxury" into into an otherwise getting-by life.

 

By the way, I don't really know where to post this, and it's obvious many of the cruise veterans who offer advice on the first-time cruisers forum are great people willing to spend time helping the newbies.

 

Jim

 

 

I agree with the others that said if you have to worry about Spending money You shouldnt be going on a crusie IMHO. And yes we all dont make the same amount of money But the way i look at it if your going on these trips you should have the money to listen to folks who say things are worth it. If i was only able to take 200 dollars and stay in a Inside room and not be able to do excursions i wouldnt go.IMO:D And im not trying to be snooty Its just my opinion

[pdmlynek]

Hope this doesn't come across as lecturing, but I can't believe how many posts I've seen here where someone says "it's worth the extra money" to:

 

-- Eat at the up-charge restaurants

-- Get a balcony cabin

-- Go on the best excursions

-- Arrive early and spend a night in the departure city

-- Upgrade to a fancy suite

 

Yes, these are all things that "are worth it" if you have the money, but to many of us, just coming up with the scratch to buy and get to a cruise stretches the budget near the breaking point. Please understand that not everyone on this site is rolling in dough. Some are just trying to squeeze a little "luxury" into into an otherwise getting-by life.

 

By the way, I don't really know where to post this, and it's obvious many of the cruise veterans who offer advice on the first-time cruisers forum are great people willing to spend time helping the newbies.

 

Jim

 

Yeah, I hear the frustration in your voice. We’ve all been there. And any of us may again be there in the future.

 

I think that know what you mean, Jim. I sometimes see people talk about spending on stuff (here on CC or in other walks of life) to the levels that are way beyond what a person in that position should be able to afford. I am not saying that a rich person could not afford it, but that a person in that market could afford it. For example, from RL, I had a landscape architect give me a design on my front and backyard that would cost me about as much as my house is worth; that was just dumb -- if I could afford to spend that much money, I would be in a much more expensive house to begin with.

 

In the realm of cruising, for example, it amazes me that on a relatively inexpensive Caribbean cruise, something that costs around $500 or $700 for a week, that people are willing to spend $300 to $400 for a cabana on a beach on a private island. Your post identifies other examples. That just seems so out of sync. If a person is of middle class that he goes on just a cheap cruise, then how does he afford such an expensive cabana? If on the other hand, he has the wealth/income that the cost of a cabana is affordable, then why does he go on a cheap cruise with us, the great unwashed?

 

But let me take a stab at answering your question and my own questions: perhaps it has to do with living below one’s means. If a person is wealthy enough to afford a $5,000/person vacation, then this living-below-his-means person would buy a run of the mill $1,000/person cruise, and any extras that seem extravagance to other cruisers would be well within his means. This living-below-his-means person would not go on a much more luxurious $3,900/person cruise, which he could afford, but which would mean that he would have to cut back on the extras. I think that psychologically it is more rewarding for a person to be in the former position than the second position.

 

Similarly, a living-below-his-means person would go to what is to him “a cheap restaurant”, with the knowledge that he can afford pretty much anything on the menu, rather than to go to what is to him “an expensive restaurant”, where he would be able to afford only a few items on the menu.

 

Yes, it takes a strong willpower for a person to live below his means. But I think that the people who can do it are financially very happy.

 

So what I am saying is that I suspect that these people who are going on run-of-the-mill cruise ships and spend money on the “worth the extra money” items are actually much, much better off than most passengers on the ship who are just barely able to afford that cruise. I would not be surprised if the guy next to you or me in a buffet line on Lido deck has 10 or 50 times greater income than you or I.

 

Anyway, that is my theory of way these extravagances are found on rather plain cruises.

[Friend100]

In the realm of cruising, for example, it amazes me that on a relatively inexpensive Caribbean cruise, something that costs around $500 or $700 for a week, that people are willing to spend $300 to $400 for a cabana on a beach on a private island. Your post identifies other examples. That just seems so out of sync. If a person is of middle class that he goes on just a cheap cruise, then how does he afford such an expensive cabana? If on the other hand, he has the wealth/income that the cost of a cabana is affordable, then why does he go on a cheap cruise with us, the great unwashed?

 

Don't agree. If someone is choosing a $700/week cruise and a $300 cabana, this is totally the "someone's" choice. Whether the "someone" is middle class or not, and whether the "someone" choose to do what you deem as "cheap cruise" or not is totally irrelevant. It is the someone's personal choice of what he/she thinks is "worth it" to him/her, which can be exactly the same, somewhat similar, somewhat different, or totally different from what I value, and I think this is absolutely fine. The beauty of cruising, I think, are the choices we have.

[pdmlynek]

Don't agree. If someone is choosing a $700/week cruise and a $300 cabana, this is totally the "someone's" choice. Whether the "someone" is middle class or not, and whether the "someone" choose to do what you deem as "cheap cruise" or not is totally irrelevant. It is the someone's personal choice of what he/she thinks is "worth it" to him/her, which can be exactly the same, somewhat similar, somewhat different, or totally different from what I value, and I think this is absolutely fine. The beauty of cruising, I think, are the choices we have.

 

Yes, you are choices, and yes, I am not judging if anyone can or cannot afford a cruise or a cabana or anything else. That is not the point that I was trying to communicate.

 

What I was trying to illustrate by the examples that I gave, i.e., the example with the cabana or the example with my landscape architect, was to explain to the OP why people post here the “it is so worth it!” comments, even though they may seem extravagant to OP. To me spending $300 on a cabana for a day on a beach while spending $700 on a cruise seems incompatible. This to me is similar to going to a fast food restaurant that serves $4 burgers and buying a $50 steak.

 

But perhaps you are correct. Perhaps it is not the best example. If you do not like my example of a cabana as being an “extravaganzas” that the OP writes about, can you come up with a better example of such incompatibility?

[Friend100]

What I was trying to illustrate by the examples that I gave, i.e., the example with the cabana or the example with my landscape architect, was to explain to the OP why people post here the “it is so worth it!” comments, even though they may seem extravagant to OP. To me spending $300 on a cabana for a day on a beach while spending $700 on a cruise seems incompatible. This to me is similar to going to a fast food restaurant that serves $4 burgers and buying a $50 steak.

 

But perhaps you are correct. Perhaps it is not the best example. If you do not like my example of a cabana as being an “extravaganzas” that the OP writes about, can you come up with a better example of such incompatibility?

 

I think your example is fine. As you said, to you that spending pattern is incompatible, and I assume that is based on how you see things are "worth it or not worth it". But to someone else, it might be totally compatible, because someone else's value is completely different from yours - and this difference is totally fine.

 

Another example: Disney cruise is my family's preferred cruiseline, but not really my personal most preferred when all things considered :rolleyes:. Anyhow, for the same amount of money for a 3-day Bahamas cruise, I could have done a 7-day Caribbean cruise on Holland America. Based on how we see things are "worth it" to us at this stage of our life, we believe when we cruise as a family, the value of a 3-day Disney cruise is "worth more" to us than a 7-day cruise on HAL. That's all that matter to us. You can agree, you can disagree. It is entirely up to what's value more or less to you. The subject of "affordability" isn't even on the table.

[wadethegringo]

I cant help myself from putting in my two cents.

I do not own a car or a golf cart. (Where I live there are more golf carts than cars). I ride a bicycle by choice. Gas here is over $7.00 us a gallon. I use fans instead of a/c. I eat a lot of local chicken with rice and beans. When I get out of the country I look for food and experiences I cant do at home.

I am looking forward to my OV cabin with A/C. No need for me to go to the Steak House. I will be to busy with all the other options of food that I cant get or am not willing to pay for. Ben and Jerrys ice cream $28 a half gallon, 12 oz can of pepsi $1.50, smoked salmon $50 a lb.....most things you find at the $1 store cost $2.00 here in Belize.

My choice to live here and how to spend my $$$$.

[calliopecruiser]

[quote name='Friend100']I think your example is fine. As you said, to [B][U]you[/U][/B] that spending pattern is incompatible, and I assume that is based on how you see things are "worth it or not worth it". But to someone else, it might be totally compatible, because someone else's value is completely different from yours - and this difference is totally fine. [/quote][COLOR="Black"]

Absolutely - I see nothing incompatible in that spending pattern, I see that it might be someone who spends without concern on things that are important to him/her, but saves money on the things that aren't important to him/her. Makes good sense to me, even if the specific things are different than my choices. [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]

Likewise, some people may spend more on a vacation and less on other areas of their routine work-a-day life, saving on things that others might think are important and worthwhile expenditures (but aren't posted about here.) It really isn't anyone's business how or why a stranger spends his/her money (and also how that person earns or saves his/her money).
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy][COLOR=Black][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]

[BlueRiband]

[quote name='jasbo49']Hope this doesn't come across as lecturing, but I can't believe how many posts I've seen here where someone says "it's worth the extra money" to:

-- Eat at the up-charge restaurants
-- Get a balcony cabin
-- Go on the best excursions
-- Arrive early and spend a night in the departure city
-- Upgrade to a fancy suite

Yes, these are all things that "are worth it" if you have the money, but to many of us, just coming up with the scratch to buy and get to a cruise stretches the budget near the breaking point. Please understand that not everyone on this site is rolling in dough. Some are just trying to squeeze a little "luxury" into into an otherwise getting-by life.

By the way, I don't really know where to post this, and it's obvious many of the cruise veterans who offer advice on the first-time cruisers forum are great people willing to spend time helping the newbies.

Jim[/quote]

If somebody asks if the luxuries are "worth it" I presume they can afford the money or they wouldn't be asking. They want to know learn from the personal experience of people who used those luxuries.

I'm sorry but I'm seeing a bit of resentment in your post that appears to be directed at those who book higher cabin categories than you can afford.

[CantanaLobo]

My $0.02, now we've got $0.04.

My take on someone saying "it's worth the extra money" means to me that it might be worth my time to investigate further. Find out what I'll get for my shekels and is that worth what they're charging to me. E.G. find out what's on the menu and am I willing to pay however much extra for that food? How much extra is the mini-suite and do I want to pay that much extra for a bathtub instead of a shower (or whatever)? Etc.

As CruiserBruce said 'What is "worth it" to you, may be a total waste to me'

For first time cruisers, do your research. Know that the cruise will be perfectly fine if you don't go to the the up-charge restaurants, if you get an inside cabin, and don't go on the "best" excursions.

(I justify flying in the day before in that flying the day of gets me extremely uptight and nervous. Flying in the day before is cheaper than a session with a shrink. YMMV)

[Friend100]

... and per the cruisecritic community guideline ..

[url]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/faq.php?faq=guidelines[/url]
[quote]... You shouldn't make a cruise decision just because some stranger (or even an online friend) talks it up. Basically, you shouldn't treat cyberspace any differently than you would real life.

The fundamental concept is that you should NOT totally rely upon the information or opinions you read. Rather, you should use what you read here as starting points for doing independent research on cruise lines, ships, hotels, shore excursions and bargain-hunting techniques. Then judge for yourself the merits of the material that has been shared in our forum.

[/quote]

[juliawinston]

[quote name='Keith1010']When it comes to all of this there is no right or wrong and how one spends their money is a personal decision.

Keith[/QUOTE]

this.

[pdmlynek]

[quote name='calliopecruiser']

[COLOR=black]Absolutely - I see nothing incompatible in that spending pattern, I see that it might be someone who spends without concern on things that are important to him/her, but saves money on the things that aren't important to him/her. Makes good sense to me, even if the specific things are different than my choices. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]Likewise, some people may spend more on a vacation and less on other areas of their routine work-a-day life, saving on things that others might think are important and worthwhile expenditures (but aren't posted about here.) It really isn't anyone's business how or why a stranger spends his/her money (and also how that person earns or saves his/her money).[/COLOR][/FONT]
[/COLOR][/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]Look, I understand that different people have different spending needs. I understand that for some people spending 5% of their budget on vacations is appropriate, while for others 15% is a better level. And I understand that some people make $50,000 per year, other $100K, and other $300K/year, so people of different incomes can afford this. That is not the issue for the OP. The issue is not the price itself; the issue is the apparently high price in the context of the base product sold by the vendor.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]What I am trying to do is to address OP’s concerns, which I imagine are concerns that could be addressed by a large section of the cruising population, and I paraphrase as: “[B]how can people on cruises afford all these ‘extras’?[/B]” He views these “extras” as rather expensive. Well, this question can certainly be dismissed with a trivial non-answer such as: “that is not any of your business”, or trivial answers such as “they just make more money than you”, or “it is simply more important to them”. But these trivial answers and non-answers do not get to the heart of the matter. These trivial solution do not answer the question, but simply dismiss the question.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]OP’s query is a valid question, which I believe deserves a more thorough answer. OP is likely not the only cruiser with such a question.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]To answer OP’s query I begin with the premise that these “extras” in the context of the basic product that is offered by the cruise line vendor are to be incompatible. What I mean is that the extras appear to be marketed to consumers in a totally different socioeconomic strata than the basic product. My example, to the question: “Would you like a cabana for 8 hours on a beach for $350?” an average person on a $700/week cruise I would expect to likely answer no, while a person who spends say $12,000/week on a cruise the answer likely answer yes. I would expect a $350 cabana to be found on a $12,000/week cruise but not on a $700/week cruise. This would be similar to finding a $50 steak on a menu of a $4 burger joint, or finding a $100K kitchen in a $150K house. A fancy restaurant might easily sell $50 meals, but a $4 burger joint wont sell any, and similarly $100K kitchen are typically sold to be installed in $1M houses instead of in $150K houses. It simply appears that the extras that cruise lines offer (such as a cabana in my example, or best excursions, or up-charge restaurants in OP’s original question) are mispriced in view of the cost of the cruise.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]Yet they are not. These extras are NOT mispriced. Somehow the market accepts the prices of these extras that are relatively very high compared to the cost of the cruise. Why is that? Why is it that we are seeing $350 cabanas on a $700 cruises, or “$50 steaks in a $4 burger joints”? Why am I wrong on this? This seems to make very little sense. And that is the question that OP is asking.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]My answer to this riddle is that people who take the $700 cruises are actually much wealthier than one would expect. The people who rent $350 cabanas are not the average $700/week cruisers who have a household income of $120K/year. The people who buy these relatively expensive extras can likely afford the $12,000/week cruises, yet chose not to do so. [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]So the answer to OP question is that [B]the people who are buying these relatively highly priced extra are in fact taking a cruise that is well under their standard of living, under their[/B] [B]means. It is not that they are taking expensive extras, it is that they are traveling on relatively cheap cruises. [/B][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[johneeo]

[quote name='Friend100']... and per the cruisecritic community guideline ..

[URL]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/faq.php?faq=guidelines[/URL][/quote]

Incredibly useful.:rolleyes:

[Cruisin' Chick]

Just like "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," value is very subjective. It could be your own financial situation that influences the worth of a situation to you, or could just be your idea about what is valuable.

A woman who lives around the corner from me has a very different idea of values than me: she was able to convince her boss to allow her to work at home. While I had to become a full time stay-at-home mom. So she and her husband have had more money to spend (and spend they do), but that's their business. When we were on the same PTA committees, she was often the first to suggest that the parents can afford this and that, and I was one who said that not everyone will be willing to pay for this and that. She also decided she would rather fly someplace directly (after her extended family had a reunion cruise). While my family tries to tie in a cruise with any vacation over a couple of days.

Our idea of a vacation is no better nor worse than hers --just different.

[Friend100]

Off topic but for 8 hour in a cabana I can share this will friends, right? So it is $350 per cabana but not $350 per person. Am I right?