Let's be realistic on money matters

[calliopecruiser]

[quote name='pdmlynek'][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]What I am trying to do is to address OP’s concerns, which I imagine are concerns that could be addressed by a large section of the cruising population, and I paraphrase as: “[B]how can people on cruises afford all these ‘extras’?[/B]” [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

I think your paraphrasing is wrong, and I think that's not at all what the OP's concerns are. He (she?) didn't ask how people can afford it (IMO), but, rather, why would someone pay for it?

And the truth remains that for some people, they're not "extras", they're an expected part of the cost of the vacation. It has nothing to do with whether or not their living within their means or whether or not it's an inexpensive cruise. Maybe the cruise and the extras are putting them into hock and it's way above their ability to pay......all we know is that they're willing to pay.

For instance, back when photography was done on film, I routinely factored in an extra amount, sometimes up to $500, for the cost of film and developing. That was important to me, I would shoot a roll a day in many cases; that cost was not an "extra", it was a necessary part of MY trip. It might not have been a necessary part of my friend's trip, and she might have seen that expenditure as a luxury extra.

I find your presumptions about the financial status of cruisers to be quite astounding (where do they come from?), as I do your presumptions of how these extras are priced. The price of these "extras" are set based on a whole bunch of factors that go way beyond the financial status of the cruisers, including supply and demand as well as various emotional and psychological factors for creating desire.

[Laughing Angel]

calliopecruiser, you make some excellent points. The cost of your fun is what you are willing to pay for it. That doesn't make it right or wrong.

To the OP: I really do want to understand. This is not a case of "Try the specialty restaurant or you won't have a fun cruise" or "Take the expensive excursion or you will have a bad time". There are so many cruise personalities (and various levels of cruising to fit their needs), that everyone can have fun and try new things on the ship/itinerary of their choice.

People are merely sharing their experiences (after all, that's the whole point of the message board) and offering helpful suggestions based on those experiences. It's about sharing and helping others. They mean no harm and don't feel the need to question someone's intelligence or insult others who disagree with them.

[pdmlynek]

[quote name='calliopecruiser']I think your paraphrasing is wrong, and I think that's not at all what the OP's concerns are. He (she?) didn't ask how people can afford it (IMO), but, rather, why would someone pay for it?
[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]I understand your alternative explanation of OP’s post. [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]The way that I view his (jasbo49 sign off as “Jim” thus I assume that OP is male) post as an exasperation. To wit: [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana][I][COLOR=blue]“…I can't believe how many posts I've seen here where someone says "it's worth the extra money" to:[/COLOR][/I][/FONT][/COLOR]
[I][COLOR=blue][COLOR=#0033cc][FONT=Verdana]-- Eat at the up-charge restaurants[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/I]
[COLOR=blue][I][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]-- Get a balcony cabin[/COLOR][/FONT][/I]
[I][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]-- Go on the best excursions[/COLOR][/FONT][/I]
[I][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]-- Arrive early and spend a night in the departure city[/COLOR][/FONT][/I]
[I][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]-- Upgrade to a fancy suite[/COLOR][/FONT][/I]
[I][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Yes, [U]these are all things that "are worth it" if you have the money[/U], but to many of us, just coming up with the scratch to buy and get to a cruise stretches the budget near the breaking point. [U]Please understand that not everyone on this site is rolling in dough[/U].”[/COLOR][/FONT][/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]This suggests that he is not questioning the value of the extras (see the first clause in the penultimate sentence), but his frustration with the high cost (see the last sentence). [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]That is my interpretation anyway. But I do not know; you may be correct. We’ll have to let jasbo49 clarify his point for us, the next time he posts.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[Langley Cruisers]

[quote name='pdmlynek'][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]We’ll have to let jasbo49 clarify his point for us, the next time he posts.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

Jim stated in post # 31 that he regrets starting this thread. Pretty sure he won't be back.

[pdmlynek]

[quote name='calliopecruiser']
And the truth remains that for some people, they're not "extras", they're an expected part of the cost of the vacation. It has nothing to do with whether or not their living within their means or whether or not it's an inexpensive cruise. Maybe the cruise and the extras are putting them into hock and it's way above their ability to pay......all we know is that they're willing to pay.

For instance, back when photography was done on film, I routinely factored in an extra amount, sometimes up to $500, for the cost of film and developing. That was important to me, I would shoot a roll a day in many cases; that cost was not an "extra", it was a necessary part of MY trip. It might not have been a necessary part of my friend's trip, and she might have seen that expenditure as a luxury extra.
...[/quote]

[COLOR=navy][FONT=Verdana]Aah, yes, I think that I understand your theory. What you are saying is that the extras are taken into account ab initio when making decisions about the cost of a cruise. So, a person evaluates the overall costs, and is not necessarily swayed by the low cost of the cruise portion of the trip. In other words the person’s view of extras is: “yeah, this extra is more than I’d normally pay, but this is more than off set by the good deal that we are getting overall.”

Forgive me, I am just a newbie, have not yet been on a cruise, but my question is, does this actually work post facto? Do people actually splurge on extras that they would otherwise not obtain? I don’t know if people would view their spending so holistically once they are aboard. But I guess if they pre-pay these extras before coming on board, their consumption of the extras is already essentially preordained, thus such costs are mentally dismiss in their determinations of affordability. Is it true, then, that most of these extras are prepaid?[/FONT][/COLOR]

[spookwife]

[quote name='pdmlynek']So the answer to OP question is that [B]the people who are buying these relatively highly priced extra are in fact taking a cruise that is well under their standard of living, under their[/B] means. It is not that they are taking expensive extras, it is that they are traveling on relatively cheap cruises.[/QUOTE]


disagree.

I cannot afford the higher up front costs of those other lines. but if I can save the 'splurge' money in between final payment and the date of the cruise, or can feel relatively confident that I will be able to pay off the On Board account afterward, I do so. I CAN afford a suite on RCI without breaking the bank. I CANNOT afford the same standard of cabin on say Disney or any of the premium lines

case in point.. just got off Enchantment. Original plan was to NOT do Chops grille as we considered to to be an unnecessary expenditure as our intent was to spend our money on wine.

well between the wine package that we had pre purchased.. and the fact that we had free drinks pretty much every night between the variety of venues that were made available to us, we found that our bar tab was going to be much lower than we had budgeted. as a result we ate at Chops and we actually also bought several of the photographs( also something we do not normally do as we cannot afford them)

and FTR.. while we do not regret spending the money at Chops we also decided it was not worth doing a second time.

[spookwife]

[quote name='pdmlynek']
Forgive me, I am just a newbie, have not yet been on a cruise, but my question is, does this actually work post facto? Do people actually splurge on extras that they would otherwise not obtain? I don’t know if people would view their spending so holistically once they are aboard. But I guess if they pre-pay these extras before coming on board, their consumption of the extras is already essentially preordained, thus such costs are mentally dismiss in their determinations of affordability. Is it true, then, that most of these extras are prepaid?[/QUOTE]

we routinely do this now.

Out first cruise we were SOOOO concerned with not being able to pay off the on board account at the end that we missed out on a LOT..we passed up purchasing many extras we really could have afforded in retrospect. as a result we left feeling rather..well cheated... like we missed out on a lot.

so now, I check the on board account daily. I know what I can afford to pay off in full at the end and we now feel it is not necessary to reign in our spending unless we get close to that ceiling. and yes I also opt to prepay as much as I can.. gratuities, even pre pay for spa appointments and of course our wine packages.


and yes many times I do factor those extras such as wine packages into the final budget.. how much are we willing to spend for this vacation. of course now that we are within 20 minutes of a port.. we can take any funds that would have been earmarked for airfare and funnel that into the up front cost of the cruise.

[Clydesmom7865]

[quote name='jasbo49']No, your budget is not my business, and I'm not suggesting anyone shouldn't enjoy what they can afford.

Obviously I made a big mistake in posting this and/or doing a poor job of explaining myself. I just grew frustrated seeing posts and reviews in which people suggested everybody simply must go on some expensive excursion or eat in an extra-fee restaurant or book a suite. I was suggesting that people who can afford these things keep in mind that not everyone can.

I'll just go back to minding my own business now.

Jim[/QUOTE]

What you are missing is the key word in all of that is SUGGESTION. They are suggestions. Not laws, not edicts, demands, or expectations. Someone posts a question about specialty restaurants, excursions etc. They may get 3 responses they may get 30. They will range in advice from blow your wallet to don't do it. They are looking for a range of experience with which to make a decision based on their budget and interests.

I got plenty of well intended advice here last year before my first cruise. Some of it was of the "I would never...... without spending my entire savings" type. I ignored it. I WOULD do some things without a butler following me around, servants in a suite or other luxuries. I was looking for MY experience. My personal favorite response "we would never cruise without doing....." Well good for you. Good thing I am not cruising with you because I WOULD. :D

If you aren't comfortable suggesting things to other cruisers because you can't afford them then skip those threads. I for one am confident that those who post here asking for advice are smart enough to decide for themselves in the end what they will and won't do and if it fits their budget regardless of how forceful some of the opinions expressed are.

[calliopecruiser]

[quote name='pdmlynek'][COLOR=navy][FONT=Verdana] Do people actually splurge on extras that they would otherwise not obtain? I don’t know if people would view their spending so holistically once they are aboard. But I guess if they pre-pay these extras before coming on board, their consumption of the extras is already essentially preordained, thus such costs are mentally dismiss in their determinations of affordability. Is it true, then, that most of these extras are prepaid?[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

Yes, some people often splurge on things while on vacation that they otherwise wouldn't.......those some people would do that with land vacations too. And some people do prepay for things they've decided to splurge on, or some simply mentally allocate that money and know they'll be spending X amount total, which is Y amount more than the cost of the cruise.

[deladypilot]

"Worth It" is a term only the person putting out the money can decided. As stated over and over again. What is worth it to one is not to another. I think that is what is great about cruising. We all go together on one ship, but we each get what we wanted on a vacation.

I do think however, that when most people ask "Is it worth it to get the balcony" they are really trying to find out if they are going to see anything of beauty for that extra cost. Again, that is subjective. What is beautiful to one is not to another.

I do realize that not everyone can afford the extra day to fly out early. I believe most of the people here on CC are letting people know that you do take a bigger risk of missing the boat if you do not. We have all read the post where someone missed a boat and come back here and post bad things about the cruise line because they did not wait on them. So they are trying to help those new to cruising understand in advance what the risks are.

Paul im with you - I love the historical sites and most people would say yuk and go to the beach instead. I for one do not care for the beach.

[jasbo49]

[quote name='pdmlynek'][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]...[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy] he is not questioning the value of the extras (see the first clause in the penultimate sentence), but his frustration with the high cost (see the last sentence). [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=navy]That is my interpretation anyway. But I do not know; you may be correct. We’ll have to let jasbo49 clarify his point for us, the next time he posts.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]
OK, OP here. I really wasn't going to come back to this, but I feel like I need to try one more time.

I am not questioning the value of these things, the prices or your right to have fun and spend what you want on it.

I was responding to what I saw as mostly unsolicited advice. In one case, it was a question about "Should I get a balcony or a mini-suite?" And the answer was something like "We always stay in the penthouse suite and wouldn't stay anywhere else." Others seemed to suggest that if you eat in the main dining room, you aren't really living.

I personally wouldn't want to go on a cruise if I couldn't afford a balcony, but I'm not going to try to make somebody else feel like a second-class citizen if he can't afford it.

It makes sense that smart people can just ignore advice that doesn't apply in their world, and I suppose I was dumb to even post the original comment. I just thought people who had plenty could go easy on those who can't afford all these treats. But, like I said before, I'll go back to minding my own business now.

Jim

[dustyroad]

[quote name='Mur-cruiser'][B]On most of this I agree, except for the arriving the day before. [/B]It only takes one to miss the ship because of airline problems to totally ruin your cruise. Long story short, fllying to NY from San Antonio via St. Louis, plane delayed, ended flying to chicago, no tickets to NY, finally got on a plane to NY, as we were landing in NY we saw our ship leaving. Needless to say it wasn't a great way to start a second honeymoon to Bermuda ( 10th anniversary) Also our luggage got lost :( Anyway the cruise staff at the airport in NY were great and all ended well, we were upgraded to a balcony cabin. Of course the people didn't know what to do with us, seeing as we were suppose to be on a ship not coming in on a plane. So if we have to fly, which we try not to, we always go the day before...less stress.[/quote]

amen ;)

[calliopecruiser]

[quote name='jasbo49']I was responding to what I saw as mostly unsolicited advice. In one case, it was a question about "Should I get a balcony or a mini-suite?" And the answer was something like "We always stay in the penthouse suite and wouldn't stay anywhere else." [/quote]

Well, in your example, that's not unsolicited advice.....in fact, it's not advice at all, it's sharing personal choices. And I can't see that it's making anyone feel badly or second class......no comment was made about those who choose to stay elsewhere. I can't see that they said anything intended to belittle those who don't do as they do. In fact, I more often see the opposite: Those who can afford to spend more on X are told by others that people who spend that money are foolish or wasteful, and that X isn't important or worthwhile. The "I don't know why anyone would waste money on a balcony when they can just go to the aft deck instead" kind of comments.

[simplelife]

[quote name='klfrodo']Don't mean to be rude, but,, if things are that tight, then maybe you're not ready for a cruise vacation financially.
99% of us have been there. We had dreams of cruise vacations but had to put that off until we could really afford it. Until then, we did what we could with what we had.[/quote]
This post reflects the very attitude that the OP was referrring to. Those on tight budgets CAN afford the cruise (just not all the extras) and can have a very good time without them. Cruising without the extras IS doing "what we could with what we had." If no one cruised until we could afford "top of the line", there would be far fewer cruisers (perhaps this is the aim of some of the "haves".

[simplelife]

[quote name='bplazo']Also arriving a day before the cruise gives you an extra vacation day and time to relax before you get on the ship.[/quote]
Some do not have the extra day. Just sayin'.

[runnerandme]

Jim, Thanks for the post. It is a reminder to me to phrase my posts in a "we chose this because" vs "it is so worth it".

[rutgersgirl27]

[quote name='skinslvr26']I agree with the others that said if you have to worry about Spending money You shouldnt be going on a crusie IMHO. And yes we all dont make the same amount of money But the way i look at it if your going on these trips you should have the money to listen to folks who say things are worth it. If i was only able to take 200 dollars and stay in a Inside room and not be able to do excursions i wouldnt go.IMO:D And im not trying to be snooty Its just my opinion[/quote]

I think it's all perception. I don't feel you can tell someone because they can only afford base price of a cruise (meaning they can afford the full cost/tax/fees/tips and travel) that they shouldn't cruise. It doesn't make sense that you should only take a vacation if you could afford all the added extras, when they added extras aren't even really needed. We aren't talking about a place like Atlantis Resorts, where paying for the bare minimum means really missing out on parts of the property. We are talking about the difference between an MDR steak vs steakhouse, and hanging out at port vs taking an expensive tour.

Also, posters here tend to make things into absolutes. It's an absolute that you must stay overnight, even if it's another $100.00 that could be spent on something else (whether vacation or life-related) and you must not take a cruise if you can't afford an extra hundred dollars. On my last cruise I had to choose between flying down early, and a good travel insurance plan. I chose the travel insurance. Does the fact that I stuck to my budget means I shouldn't have cruised?

ETA- I do mean to say that if you are spending your last dollar in life on a cruise, then yes. You can't afford it. But if you have a strict vacation budget, and don't want to go over it, then that's a different story.

[Friend100]

[quote name='runnerandme']It is a reminder to me to phrase my posts in a "we chose this because" vs "it is so worth it".[/quote]


And to me, both are equally fine from the perspective of the person who's sharing his/her experience and opinion. From the perspective of the reader, it is totally up to him/her to interpret the merit of such opinion and of how applicable it is to his/her own personal circumstances.

[Laughing Angel]

[quote name='jasbo49']OK, OP here. I really wasn't going to come back to this, but I feel like I need to try one more time.

I am not questioning the value of these things, the prices or your right to have fun and spend what you want on it.

I was responding to what I saw as mostly unsolicited advice. In one case, it was a question about "Should I get a balcony or a mini-suite?" And the answer was something like "We always stay in the penthouse suite and wouldn't stay anywhere else." Others seemed to suggest that if you eat in the main dining room, you aren't really living.

I personally wouldn't want to go on a cruise if I couldn't afford a balcony, but I'm not going to try to make somebody else feel like a second-class citizen if he can't afford it.

It makes sense that smart people can just ignore advice that doesn't apply in their world, and I suppose I was dumb to even post the original comment. I just thought people who had plenty could go easy on those who can't afford all these treats. But, like I said before, I'll go back to minding my own business now.

Jim[/QUOTE]

Jim, please--

I can only speak for myself, but I don't consider you dumb for posting the original comment. I truly didn't understand the point you were making at first. I was honestly just trying to get what you were saying and why. I think I was able to figure it out once you explained. That said, I will repeat what Clydesmom said in an earlier post: These are SUGGESTIONS, not laws, edicts or demands. This board is full of unsolicited advice, and you get to choose what fits or feels right for you.

I hope you'll come back and ask questions/contribute to this site in the future.

[Laughing Angel]

[quote name='runnerandme']Jim, Thanks for the post. It is a reminder to me to phrase my posts in a "we chose this because" vs "it is so worth it".[/QUOTE]

Excellent post--and a great reminder for me as well.

[Golfman3436]

[quote name='klfrodo']Don't mean to be rude, but,, if things are that tight, then maybe you're not ready for a cruise vacation financially.
99% of us have been there. We had dreams of cruise vacations but had to put that off until we could really afford it. Until then, we did what we could with what we had.[/quote]


Some people live check to check and have saved for a year or more to take a nice trip. Many people are at the top of their potential earning and still live check to check. They may never be in a better financial place. Just because $$ is extra tight doesn't mean they are not ready for a cruse vacation or should wait. People book trips 2 years out just to pay for it.
I say do what is right for you and don't worry what others can afford. Have fun on the trip you paid for. IMHO the main dining room food is just as good as the restaurants. Just enjoy your trip. Life is about making memories not regrets.

[Cruisin' Chick]

[quote name='jasbo49']OK, OP here. I really wasn't going to come back to this, but I feel like I need to try one more time.

I am not questioning the value of these things, the prices or your right to have fun and spend what you want on it.

I was responding to what I saw as mostly unsolicited advice. In one case, it was a question about "Should I get a balcony or a mini-suite?" And the answer was something like "We always stay in the penthouse suite and wouldn't stay anywhere else." Others seemed to suggest that if you eat in the main dining room, you aren't really living.

I personally wouldn't want to go on a cruise if I couldn't afford a balcony, but I'm not going to try to make somebody else feel like a second-class citizen if he can't afford it.

It makes sense that smart people can just ignore advice that doesn't apply in their world, and I suppose I was dumb to even post the original comment. I just thought people who had plenty could go easy on those who can't afford all these treats. But, like I said before, I'll go back to minding my own business now.

Jim[/quote]

[COLOR=Red]When someone says that if they can't have a balcony, forget it, or other such comments, I just take it as opinion and personal preferences. For the most part, nobody else on the ship will know whether you have an inside or an owner's suite, unless you tell them, or they see you opening that cabin. Nobody's going to know whether you go to a specialty restaurant unless you tell them or they see you enter one. I don't feel lesser than that other cruiser just because I've never stayed in a suite or eat in Sabintinis. It's not a big deal for me. If someone comes on CC and books their cruiseline, ship, cabin, excursions, simply based on someone's post...rather than extensive research, that's their problem.[/COLOR]

[quote name='rutgersgirl27']I think it's all perception. I don't feel you can tell someone because they can only afford base price of a cruise (meaning they can afford the full cost/tax/fees/tips and travel) that they shouldn't cruise. It doesn't make sense that you should only take a vacation if you could afford all the added extras, when they added extras aren't even really needed. We aren't talking about a place like Atlantis Resorts, where paying for the bare minimum means really missing out on parts of the property. We are talking about the difference between an MDR steak vs steakhouse, and hanging out at port vs taking an expensive tour.

Also, posters here tend to make things into absolutes. It's an absolute that you must stay overnight, even if it's another $100.00 that could be spent on something else (whether vacation or life-related) and you must not take a cruise if you can't afford an extra hundred dollars. On my last cruise I had to choose between flying down early, and a good travel insurance plan. I chose the travel insurance. Does the fact that I stuck to my budget means I shouldn't have cruised?

ETA- I do mean to say that if you are spending your last dollar in life on a cruise, then yes. You can't afford it. But if you have a strict vacation budget, and don't want to go over it, then that's a different story.[/quote]

With us, the arriving in the embarkation city (other than our home port) early is a must. If we can't due to scheduling, then we're going to chose another date or cruise. So this is our (and apparently based on other posts here) major exception to the OP's first post (and even he/she admits this item made it on the list by mistake). If something goes wrong (flight gets cancelled or delayed), there goes our trip. When I got the tickets for my second cruise and the flight info that said our flight would get us into Miami early the morning of the cruise, I called my then-bf (now hubby) and told him about our red-eyed flight. He said no way and I was in total agreement and called the TA, reminding her that when we booked cruise air, that included a hotel stay. It got changed. After that, I made our travel arrangements, always with a pre-cruise stay in a hotel. No way are we getting on a ship blurry-eyed or stressed out.

[Suzieanna]

I have been thinking about the original post quite a bit, and my response is as follows:-

What is "worth it" is purely subjective. I like a balcony, but do I think it is "worth" paying an extra £500pp for it - probably not? However, we get one because my hubby does think its worth it - because he would get cabin fever in an inside room (or so he thinks, we have never tried one, so how would he know that?)

Is it "worth" going to upscale restaurants - not for me cos I am not interested in food at all. Eat and run, that's me! - Some people do want to be made a fuss of, and eat the lobster and have a white gloved waiter -so it is worth it for them.

Is it "worth" doing organised trips - if its somewhere you dont know then yes, it is - for me. If I am going to go all the way to a "thing", I want to make sure I know what it is I am looking at and I dont want to run the risk of getting lost!

What is always "worth" doing is spending your money in a way that provides you the most return on your spend - ie - enables you to do the things you want to do the most.

There is a tv show here in UK that sells cruises and I admit I get mightily P*ssed off when the presenter says things like "ooh this is a recession busting price", and "everyone should treat themselves to a cruise, you only live once" and all that sort of thing. Then against this "recession busting price" they show a montage of pay restaurants, glamourous couples drinking cocktails in their penthouse suite balcony whilst being attended to by their butler. They should be made to show what that recession busting price actually gets you - and then be made to tell us that a pint is £5 - with 15% service on top!!!

[Aluvendale]

[quote name='runnerandme']Jim, Thanks for the post. It is a reminder to me to phrase my posts in a "we chose this because" vs "it is so worth it".[/QUOTE]

This. You can knock out the entire debate of "worth" if you just give an honest review of what you did/purchased/experienced. Give people the facts followed by your opinion/review, then let the reader decide for themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Friend100]

[quote name='Aluvendale']This. You can knock out the entire debate of "worth" if you just give an honest review of what you did/purchased/experienced. Give people the facts followed by your opinion/review, then let the reader decide for themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

But your opinion can also include, for what you paid for the cruise / suite / specialty restaurant / excursion, whether you think it is worth it to you or not.

And personally I appreciate the entire debate of "worth". I think this is good discussion. I do not want to knock out it.