Why Does HAL Hate NYC?

[3rdGenCunarder]

But doesn't Cunard still leave out of New York? They are definitely more than Brand A.

 

Not on a weekly basis. QM2 does a mix of transatlantics, Europe cruises (out of Southampton), NY-based cruises (Canada or Caribbean). She generally does a world cruise in the winter. The other two Cunard ships sail in Europe, except if they do a WC in the winter. Cunard did try a winter Caribbean season out of NYC with QM2 one year. They didn't do it again, so I guess it didn't sell well.

[Salacia]

Cunard has only one Caribbean R/T NY this year - the QM2 Holiday voyage in December. My first voyage was on QM2 to the Caribbean r/t NY in 2008 (or maybe it was 2007). Since then, we've enjoyed several Caribbean voyages on QM2, as in subsequent years QM2 made several trips to the Caribbean in the fall/winter seasons. But when that route was drastically reduced, we sailed on Princess r/t NY-Caribbean. But when Princess drastically reduced r/t NY -Caribbean voyages, we booked with Holland America -Veendam NY/Bermuda last May. We enjoyed that cruise so much that we booked that cruise for an August sailing. And now that Holland America has eliminated r/t NY Bermuda cruises, I'm wondering if I should just take up kayaking on the Hudson River :eek::) -S.

[Boytjie]

'The 'Euro' dam is coming in from 'Euro'pe in September.. But NYC is just way too expensive, HAL should go back to Hoboken like in the old days..

 

Not going to happen: the Hoboken waterfront has been developed and the old piers are not there for docking anymore.

[Boytjie]

I remember their old location in lower Manhattan (pier is still there, but HAL doesn't use/own it). I don't remember a Hoboken terminal.

 

I remember seeing Holland America Line painted on a building on the docks on Hoboken when I lived there in the late 80's and early 90"s.

[josie724]

I don't know their reasons this time; however 20 years ago when they pulled their ships out of NYC they gave two reasons officially:

1. Too many slowdowns and other problems with various maritime unions etc in NYC

2. too many of the passengers who boarded from the NYC area were difficult and abusive to their crew members thus creating problems which they preferred to avoid.

Thus they moved their ships and did not sail again from NYC for many years. Some years ago they returned, and now have again retreated from the NYC market.

 

Are you telling me that HAL OFFICIALY stated that:confused::confused:

[HamOp]

I don't know their reasons this time; however 20 years ago when they pulled their ships out of NYC they gave two reasons officially:

1. Too many slowdowns and other problems with various maritime unions etc in NYC

2. too many of the passengers who boarded from the NYC area were difficult and abusive to their crew members thus creating problems which they preferred to avoid.

Thus they moved their ships and did not sail again from NYC for many years. Some years ago they returned, and now have again retreated from the NYC market.

 

Are you telling me that HAL OFFICIALY stated that:confused::confused:

 

josie,

 

I think we both know that HAL would never single out folks from any city and just say "too many problems with those people".

 

Heck, a lot of the people sailing from New York are not even from the metro area. People fly from all over the world to embark in NYC.

 

It sounds to me like someone on a HAL ship (the captain?) was fishing for an answer and that was one of the first things that popped onto his mind, perhaps based on his personal bias.

 

I lived in NYC for 4 years and I'm sure I don't have to tell you, NYCers are just like folks anywhere. Most nice and a few not so nice. That's life.

 

If HAL ever did say something like that not even Bill Clinton could handle damage control:D.

[gkny]

Other lines (NCL and Carnival) can charge a much lower per diem than HAL. To compete, Noordam's per diem rate would have had to be lowered to an unacceptable level to produce HAL's superior product. Notice Princess is no longer doing the Caribbean from NYC either.

 

I rarely agree with Sail7Seas but in this case she is correct. If HAL could make money sailing from NYC, the Noordam would still be here.

 

We sailed on the Noordam's NYC sailing four times and loved everyone of them. At a question and answer session with Captain Hans Mateboer, he stated three reasons for Noordam leaving NYC: 1. fuel costs and wear and tear on the engines since the trip required max speed. 2. on-board income was way below what HAL receives when sailing from Florida, since the guest sailing from NYC were a lot older (younger NYCers tend to go on the other lines) . and 3. any on-board emergency during the transit (medical evacuation) meant the ship would be hours late arriving since they was no flex built into the schedule - and this happened often.

I might disagree, but I could be wrong about the fuel and the wear and tear of the ship because Cunard does the TA crossings from NYC to London every week during the summer months. I think HAL is missing the oportunity in the NY Market and they should bring back a ship.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I might disagree, but I could be wrong about the fuel and the wear and tear of the ship because Cunard does the TA crossings from NYC to London every week during the summer months. I think HAL is missing the oportunity in the NY Market and they should bring back a ship.

 

Not every week, but several times over the summer and fall months. Because she's moving all the time on a TA, her fuel costs are more. And so are her fares. But she has essentially zero competition on TAs. Almost all other TAs include stops along the way, usually following a more southerly (and likely smoother) route.

[sagavista]

I have been reading your interesting thoughts and just remember: what's not good for business today, may be good for business tomorrow. HAL will be back in NYC again.

[Boytjie]

Not every week, but several times over the summer and fall months. Because she's moving all the time on a TA, her fuel costs are more. And so are her fares. But she has essentially zero competition on TAs. Almost all other TAs include stops along the way, usually following a more southerly (and likely smoother) route.

 

And QM2's TA now takes 7 days to travel at lower speeds, save fuel and I am sure less wear on the mechanicals.

[blue whale]

Thank you for the info about suites on Norwegian Line. We may look into those after we have finished the sequence of longer HAL cruises we have booked.

 

D

[CtheW0rld]

I might disagree, but I could be wrong about the fuel and the wear and tear of the ship because Cunard does the TA crossings from NYC to London every week during the summer months. I think HAL is missing the oportunity in the NY Market and they should bring back a ship.

 

cunard operates liners. hal operates cruise ships. two different beasts.

[Boytjie]

cunard operates liners. hal operates cruise ships. two different beasts.

 

Cunard has one ocean liner and two cruise ships. ;)

 

QV and QE are based on the Vista class of cruise ship.

[3rdGenCunarder]

And QM2's TA now takes 7 days to travel at lower speeds, save fuel and I am sure less wear on the mechanicals.

 

True. I suspect they've also done that to standardize the length of a crossing. Poor QE and QV don't have the power to do it any faster than that, so when the vistas do a crossing (with or without QM2 in tandem), it HAS to be 7 days.

[UandMe4Ever]

Other lines (NCL and Carnival) can charge a much lower per diem than HAL. To compete, Noordam's per diem rate would have had to be lowered to an unacceptable level to produce HAL's superior product. Notice Princess is no longer doing the Caribbean from NYC either.

 

I rarely agree with Sail7Seas but in this case she is correct. If HAL could make money sailing from NYC, the Noordam would still be here.

 

We sailed on the Noordam's NYC sailing four times and loved everyone of them. At a question and answer session with Captain Hans Mateboer, he stated three reasons for Noordam leaving NYC: 1. fuel costs and wear and tear on the engines since the trip required max speed. 2. on-board income was way below what HAL receives when sailing from Florida, since the guest sailing from NYC were a lot older (younger NYCers tend to go on the other lines) . and 3. any on-board emergency during the transit (medical evacuation) meant the ship would be hours late arriving since they was no flex built into the schedule - and this happened often.

 

 

I wish HAL would stay! Princess still does a "repo"...NYC (BKYN) BACK TO FLA..Only on the Caribb. Princess 9 or 10 day... wish they also did more cruises from NYC..

 

Have a nice day everyone!

[J-D]

We will probably sail from New York sooner or later, and we were happy with all but one aspect of a recent trip on HAL's "Volendam". However, on that cruise, frequent smoking on balconies near ours was a major negative for us. We are not likely to be back on HAL, from NYC or elsewhere, until HAL bans smoking not only in cabins (as they have done) but -- even more importantly -- on balconies. We appreciate that there are widely varying and strong views about this. However, for us, being able to use our balcony is an overriding consideration. Our business is going to cruise lines that prohibit balcony smoking.

[gkny]

Not every week, but several times over the summer and fall months. Because she's moving all the time on a TA, her fuel costs are more. And so are her fares. But she has essentially zero competition on TAs. Almost all other TAs include stops along the way, usually following a more southerly (and likely smoother) route.

 

But why are TA's or repositioning cruises so cheap. Last year we were on RCI and the cost for the 2 week cruise was $400pp for an inside cabin in Nov. Wer'e doing another TA on Celebrity this comming dec for a 15 night cruise for $500pp including taxes for an inside cabin. From the Cannery Islands to Miami will be an 8 day crossing.

[gkny]

cunard operates liners. hal operates cruise ships. two different beasts.

 

Now I might be stupid but can you explain whats the difference between and ocean liner and a cruise ship. I know the bow or the hull is different on a ol. What is the speed of an ocean liner. Thanks

[CtheW0rld]

Now I might be stupid but can you explain whats the difference between and ocean liner and a cruise ship. I know the bow or the hull is different on a ol. What is the speed of an ocean liner. Thanks

 

not a dumb question at all. books have been written about this. much too much to post here. I would suggest googling it. hull design and engineering for the stresses of the open sea are two of the biggest differences.

[Guest LoveMyBoxer]

Now I might be stupid but can you explain whats the difference between and ocean liner and a cruise ship. I know the bow or the hull is different on a ol. What is the speed of an ocean liner. Thanks

 

Here is a good explanation: http://misunderstoodmariner.blogspot.com/2009/07/ocean-liners-vs-cruise-ships.html

 

They may look alike to the casual observer, but cruise ships and ocean liners are really two very different types of vessel. The large cruise ships you see sailing out of Miami, Alaska, and other cruising destinations are related to Titanic, United States, and Queen Elizabeth II, but have very different missions, construction, and even crews.

Ocean liners came first. In technical jargon, any ship that runs a regular schedule on an ocean-going route is a liner, even if that ship doesn't carry passengers. In everyday usage, though, we think of an ocean liner as a passenger-carrying ship in the mode of the QEII. It is this difference in mission that distinguishes ocean liners from cruise ships: liners go from point to point; cruise ships don't have a final destination.

Ocean liners are also built for the open ocean routes their schedules require. They have storage for more food, water, and fuel than their cruise ship counterparts, and are built for the rougher waters of the open ocean. They typically have more freeboard than cruise ships, which simply means their highest open-air deck is higher off the water than that on a cruise ship. This makes an ocean liner a lot more expensive to build than a cruise ship. The Queen Mary II (pictured above), when she was completed in 2003, used 40-percent more steel than an similar-sized cruise ship would, and cost twice as much per passenger berth to build than a cruise ship. The builders also had to settle for fewer premium "balcony staterooms" than a cruise ship would to allow for the increased freeboard.

Cruise ships have become destinations in and of themselves; it's been said it doesn't matter where they sail as long as the scenery is pretty and the weather is decent. More than a third of all cruise ship sailings are out of and back to Miami via various Caribbean destinations. The cruise industry continues to be a huge part of the travel industry and the major cruise lines are building more ships (nearly ten a year since 2001) all the time. On the other hand, demand for ocean liners decreased as commercial passenger air travel became accessible. The Queen Mary II was the first true ocean liner built in more than 30 years and, with the retirement of the Queen Elizabeth II in 2008, remains the only true liner in passenger service in the world.

The Queen Mary II is the longest passenger ship in the world at 1,132 feet. It grosses more than 148,000 tons, carries more than 2,600 passengers, and has a crew of more than 1,200. The largest standard cruise ship in the world is Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas. It is 1,119 feet long, but surpasses the QMII in gross tonnage, at more than 154,000. It can carry more than 3,600 passengers and 1,300 crew.

[dakrewser]

But why are TA's or repositioning cruises so cheap.

 

Because they're a hard sell - few ports, long stretches at sea, and "open jaw" air flights, which are getting more expensive. But they do have to move the ships, so a little revenue is better than none at all.

[jtl513]

Because they're a hard sell - few ports, long stretches at sea, and "open jaw" air flights, ...

Also not the "in" season at either end.

[HamOp]

Because they're a hard sell - few ports, long stretches at sea, and "open jaw" air flights, which are getting more expensive. But they do have to move the ships, so a little revenue is better than none at all.

 

But with "few ports, long stretches at sea" what do many people do? I would think drink and gamble and shop. All money makers for the cruise line with no competition from shore side venues. Why wouldn't it be a good revenue producer?

[sail7seas]

Also not the "in" season at either end.

 

 

That is the big negative for us. I like to be at whatever location at the best time to be there. We usually avoid 'shoulder season' for any travel when possible....except for April in the Caribbean. We like that! :)

 

 

[sail7seas]

But with "few ports, long stretches at sea" what do many people do? I would think drink and gamble and shop. All money makers for the cruise line with no competition from shore side venues. Why wouldn't it be a good revenue producer?

 

 

Sleep, read, eat..... :)

 

They also watch movies they don't have time to see at home, chat with friends, participate in shipboard organzied activities.