Taking kids out of school ?

[Warm Breezes]

Keep in mind in the US the no child left behind policy really cracks down on truancy. So it is illegal to take your child out of school now for anything other than a death in the family or illness. If you write a note saying that your child was absent because you were out of town- you'll get a letter from the school board. This is not a legitimate absence in US public schools.

 

So most parents tell their kids to lie and say they were sick. I have trouble with that. I did take my son on a cruise over President's weekend because I wanted to do a winter getaway and in the future I won't do this. It isn't worth the anxiety and I don't like to lie. I think it sends two bad messages- the rules don't apply to you and that school isn't really that important.

 

That is not true in our school district. This was taken from our student handbook:

 

1. Students who accumulate twelve (12) or more absences (combination of excused or unexcused) in a class during a trimester will be given a grade of "X" (no credit due to excessive absences).

2. Students who have more than six (6) absences from a class (excused and unexcused) but less than 12 absences in a class they are passing, will be required to earn a grade of C- (70%) or better on the final exam in order to receive credit in the class. There is no buy back option for exceeding the attendance limit. Students must show that they have mastered the course content by passing the exam.

3. All absences from school (excused, pre-excused, family vacations, unexcused, and truancies) count toward the six day limit described above. Absences that are school-related (field trips, etc.) due to suspension, court appearance, (appropriate documentation required), funeral for an immediate family member (brother, sister, step-brother, step-sister, parent, step-parent or grandparent) or for medical reasons (provided a doctor’s/dentist’s note is supplied) will not apply to the limit.

4. If circumstances not covered above warrant it, a student who is denied credit in a class due to excessive absences will be allowed to appeal the loss of credit (see appeal procedure).

Every single time I took my kids out for a vacation, whether it was a day or a week, it was marked as excused on their records. We didn't break any rules and we did not lie.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

In Baltimore County the only legitimate excuses per the Superintendent are

 

Death of an immediate family member, illness, court summons or due to violent weather.

 

That's it. The school board will contact you and require a doctor's note for long absences due to illness.

 

That is just the legal guidelines but then there is the attitude at school. The students are expected to get all of their missed work from the teachers. The teachers don't just give it to them- the kids have to specifically ask. The teachers do not feel that it is their responsibility to get children up to speed- that fall on the child and parents. When a child is trying to do the current work, as well as make up work- I can tell you that my son was lost after being home with the flu for a week. He really struggled. Next year- I'll have to really stay on top of him if this happens again.

 

Keep in mind that school are awarded the Blue Ribbon Award largely based on school testing and attendance. The principal gets federal funds for the school when they have this distinction. So in my area they take school very seriously.

[Warm Breezes]

I agree that every child is different. My son would love to skip school to do a cruise. But I know what happened this past year when he was sick for a week. He did not complete the make-up work and he really struggled. In the end he got a failing grade in one subject. This is his first year of middle school and the kids can't afford to miss a week of school.

 

Maybe some kids can- but if your child ends up struggling- then you can't really give them a lecture about the importance of school- when you think family time is more important.

 

You can have family time and vacation time without taking your kids out of school- so this is not a good justification for pulling them out.

 

My sons have been all over the US and Europe and didn't miss any school (except on the two occasions I mentioned previously).

 

Are you an expert on every family's schedule, every school districts policies, and every child's educational abilities? For some parents, their schedules do not allow them to travel during school vacations. Really they don't have justification for pulling them out of school? Who are you to decide that? Good for you that you can travel during school breaks...but we all don't have your job. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before judging them and their decisions so hastily.

 

FYI my kids could handle being pulled out of school without any drops in their grades. I did do it less the older they got, at their request because they had sports on top of school which made it harder to make up the work...but I still had no problem pulling them out for a day or two. DS is starting college this year a semester ahead of many of his peers because of his AP and dual enrollment courses. He graduated in the top 10% of his class. It seems all the times I pulled him out for vacations during his school years did not hurt him at all.

[Warm Breezes]

In Baltimore County the only legitimate excuses per the Superintendent are

 

Death of an immediate family member, illness, court summons or due to violent weather.

 

That's it. The school board will contact you and require a doctor's note for long absences due to illness.

 

That is just the legal guidelines but then there is the attitude at school. The students are expected to get all of their missed work from the teachers. The teachers don't just give it to them- the kids have to specifically ask. So do our kids. The teachers do not feel that it is their responsibility to get children up to speed- that fall on the child and parents. I totally agree with this and we make sure our children make up their work and turn it in per the teachers requested date. When a child is trying to do the current work, as well as make up work- I can tell you that my son was lost after being home with the flu for a week. He really struggled. My kids made it a point to get as much done ahead of time as they could and used travel time to get the rest of it done. There was always some that they didn't get until after we returned and sometimes it was a struggle to get it done with sports schedules on top of current work loads...but they always did it and their grades never suffered. Next year- I'll have to really stay on top of him if this happens again.

Keep in mind that school are awarded the Blue Ribbon Award largely based on school testing and attendance. The principal gets federal funds for the school when they have this distinction. So in my area they take school very seriously.

 

My DD was out a week in 7th grade because she had an emergency surgery on her foot. Both of my kids have had school issued lap tops and most of their books, classroom notes, etc are right on there and they access homework assignments on-line. During that week she was off I only had to stop by the school to pick up a reading assignment. For everything else she contacted her teachers on-line herself to get her missing assignments. She did a computer project with another student at the same time they were in class on-line. Any notes she missed in class, she received from fellow students on-line. By the time she returned to school she was current with all of her classes. All schools and all students are not created equal. You can not judge everyone by your child and your school district.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Wow- we have quite a few opinions here. Everyone has to do what is best for their child. You are the only one that knows what is best for your child.

 

The OP asks for opinions and I gave mine but we can go round and round on this and opinions vary.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

My DD was out a week in 7th grade because she had an emergency surgery on her foot. Both of my kids have had school issued lap tops and most of their books, classroom notes, etc are right on there and they access homework assignments on-line. During that week she was off I only had to stop by the school to pick up a reading assignment. For everything else she contacted her teachers on-line herself to get her missing assignments. She did a computer project with another student at the same time they were in class on-line. Any notes she missed in class, she received from fellow students on-line. By the time she returned to school she was current with all of her classes. All schools and all students are not created equal. You can not judge everyone by your child and your school district.

 

 

My son had his appendix out in 5th grade and when I contacted the school the students all sent get well cards and the teacher provided me with his work. He wasn't really sick but wasn't allowed to return to school for one week so doing the work was not difficult. When my son had the flu- I knew about ed-line but he was sick- he wasn't up to doing school work in his condition and it had to wait until he was well. If he was well enough to do the work-he'd be in school in the first place. I did talk with his teachers because not all the classwork is on ed-line. Anyway- that was my experience and while some people have kids that are organized and can easily miss a week of school that's fine. My son isn't that type.

[celle]

No, I would not take my child out of school for a cruise.

 

However, I have taken my children out of school for other reasons.

 

When my children were in high school, my DH had a job that required lots of overseas travel. Normally, it was just for short periods and I stayed home with the kids.

 

However, when the kids were in years 11, 12 and 13, DH had a month-long business trip to the USA. We all went - so my kids were out of school for a month. New Zealand is not as draconian as the US about school attendance, when the absence is for a good reason.

 

We did it in consultation with the school and the individual teachers. Each child had an agreement with his/her teachers, and agreed to complete and present assignments on time. We're fortunate in having kids who were diligent and who were already doing well at school - I think that influenced the school's attitude to their absence.

 

Each child travelled with a backpack full of school books and they did a minimum of 3 hours a day of school work. On flights, in hotel rooms in the evenings - they did their work and they submitted their assignments by e-mail. When they get to senior level in high school, much of the work is done individually and it is possible for students to work independently and not fall behind.

 

It took a lot of planning (and some enforcement of work hours while travelling) but all 3 kids passed their year with good grades and they all eventually went on to university. I don't think their progress at school suffered at all from their absence.

 

In addition to keeping up with their school work, my kids had many educational experiences they would otherwise have missed.

 

• Boeing aircraft factory in Seattle - saw planes being assembled and noted the work ethic expected there.
  
• Alcatraz, sea life, trams in San Francisco.
  
• Sea life museum and aquarium in Monterey.
  
• Tall buildings, Central Park, Ellis Island immigration museum in New York.
  
• White House and several museums in Washington, DC.
  
• Space Museum at Cape Kennedy - and Florida Disneyworld, of course.
  
• Jazz in New Orleans (DS#2 played trumpet in his school's jazz band at that time).
  
• River Mississippi - tied this in with DD's reading of Huckleberry Finn.
  
• Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam from Las Vegas.
  

It took a lot of planning and a lot of parental supervision but, for the experience, I would do it again.

 

For a cruise - no, I don't think the benefits to the child are sufficient to justify missing school.

[dsrdsrdsr]

This was taken from our student handbook:

 

...

 

3. All absences from school (excused, pre-excused, family vacations, unexcused, and truancies) count toward the six day limit described above. Absences that are school-related (field trips, etc.) due to suspension, court appearance, (appropriate documentation required), funeral for an immediate family member (brother, sister, step-brother, step-sister, parent, step-parent or grandparent) or for medical reasons (provided a doctor’s/dentist’s note is supplied) will not apply to the limit.

Is that literally true? If a child's parent dies, they're allowed 1 day off for the funeral but any other absence may lead to automatic failure? :eek: What about step-grandparents, aunts and uncles, nephews, cousins? I hope there's leeway.

[6rugrats]

All these "Should I take my child out of school for a cruise thread?" seem to be all the same. We've had the "go ahead, it's your child posts", the "my child's a wonder student" posts, complete with details about their high achievements, the lectures on breaking the law, rules of various school districts across the country and in Canada, your "rights" as a parent, the importance of "family time" (what you don't spend time together as a family except on vacation?), etc.

 

But still waiting for the "It's o.k. to pull your child out of school because a cruise to the Bahamas is so very educational" post.

[circuitrider]

But still waiting for the "It's o.k. to pull your child out of school because a cruise to the Bahamas is so very educational" post.

 

Sure thing.

 

It's ok if you pull your child out of school to go on a Bahamas cruise, as long as you're not lying and/or breaking any rules. While the entire cruise does not have to be educational, it is very easy to include educational components in such a cruise.

 

Is that sufficient :)

 

I haven't been on a Bahamas cruise yet, but I've read up on some of the ports and it does look like one could learn quite a bit about the history, how people live there, etc. Yes, a beach day would be nice, but not every day has to be a beach day.

[Warm Breezes]

Is that literally true? If a child's parent dies, they're allowed 1 day off for the funeral but any other absence may lead to automatic failure? :eek: What about step-grandparents, aunts and uncles, nephews, cousins? I hope there's leeway.

 

I think you mis-read the post. If a parent dies the time off does not count towards the 6 days a trimester limit for missing days. If aunts, uncles, nephews, cousins die then it does count towards the 6 day limit where if they miss between 6-12 days they need to pass the final exam to prove they learned the material misssed.

[queenL]

Public schools in the US are not flexible. If a child misses school you really have to have a justifiable reason. I seriously doubt the first thing a serviceman does when he gets home is go on vacation anyway.

 

Funny you mentioned this. When my husband was in Iraq he got a 2 wk break mid tour. I booked a cruise for us. Literally a day after he returned we left to go cruising. We knew if we stayed home he would be bombarded with friends and family coming to visit. We just wanted some time all to ourselves to reconnect. So, I wouldn't rule that out. I'm sure we are not the only people who do that.

 

As for taking kids out of school. We are in just a few weeks. However, my oldest is in kindergarten. We will play it by ear. If she does well in school we will definitely continue to do. If I feel like it would be too much for her to handle then I would stop. That is my best advice, judge by your child. Another perspective, my parents pulled me out of high school for travel. I also went on an exchange trip my junior year. I was in Paris for a month. My teachers gave me my assignments in advance. I completed all my work and submitted it when I got back. I really think people make too big of a deal over this. That said it depends on the student. If they can't handle it, then don't do it.

[chipmaster]

Hot topic and very personal..

 

My opinion won't be shared by many.. I would never take my kids out for vacation, even to save money. It's about setting examples for your children about priorities, school is a priority, more so than vacation. I have taken my younger one out to compete at national competitions a slight different tradeoff and example.

 

I know there are others that argue about examples of kids that were taken out of school and go to harvard, become doctors, become whatever. The argument isn't about examples or exceptions, its about your values and how you show by setting example.

 

In my mind people who make arguments about what kids learn on vacation, famly time, or that they learn more on these vacations are exactly the point I'm trying to make, but again just my personal opinion

 

Good luck with your choice, what is mine value may not be the same for you.

 

How many of you take your children out of school to cruise? If you do, does the school give you a hard time?

 

We have never done it but thinking it's a lot more affordable with a family of 6.

 

Would love to hear what others think :confused:

[Warm Breezes]

Hot topic and very personal..

 

My opinion won't be shared by many.. I would never take my kids out for vacation, even to save money. It's about setting examples for your children about priorities, school is a priority, more so than vacation. I have taken my younger one out to compete at national competitions a slight different tradeoff and example.

 

I know there are others that argue about examples of kids that were taken out of school and go to harvard, become doctors, become whatever. The argument isn't about examples or exceptions, its about your values and how you show by setting example.

 

In my mind people who make arguments about what kids learn on vacation, famly time, or that they learn more on these vacations are exactly the point I'm trying to make, but again just my personal opinion

 

Good luck with your choice, what is mine value may not be the same for you.

 

And this is the argument that I disagree with the most. The values and examples given to my kids are what we see in the real world:

 

At my work place, I let my boss know at least a couple of months in advance when I plan a family vacation and I follow our work policy when doing so. At my kids school, I let the school and the teachers know at least a couple of months in advance when I plan a family vacation where the kids will miss school days and I follow our school policy when doing so.

 

At my work place, I make sure I will not be vacationing during any time periods where I need to be at work (ie 1st 2 weeks of every month). At my kids school, I make sure my kids will not be absent during any final exams or other important testing.

 

At my work place, I make sure all the work I need to get done is done ahead of time or I have someone covering for me on the things that have to be done right then. At my kids school, I make sure they get all of their homework assignments done and completed in the time period required by their teachers. If they need notes they contact classmates to get whatever notes they need from them.

 

The example and values that I put forth to my kids are that they get all of their work done and they get it done in an accurate and timely manner. The example and values that I put forth to my kids is that they follow the school policies when taking time off from school. I do not promote breaking the rules. I do not promote slacking on their work. In my work place, when I go on a vacation, it usually takes extra time and effort on my part before and after I return to make up for my work missed. In my kids school, when they go on a vacation, it usually takes extra time and effort on their part before and after we return to make up for their work missed...my kids are going to have no problem fitting into the real world.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

I know what parents go through in trying to schedule vacations and i just got to the point where i said- summer is our time. It just makes the most sense for us. My son is out of school from mid-June to late August and if we weren't on vacation- he'd be in summer camps which cost alot of money. So the way I see it- is we have so much time at our disposal and the world is our oyster. This summer we did a 19 day vacation and now we are doing a week to Bermuda this Sunday.

 

The rest of the year we have fun but we do things close to home that don't require him missing any school. When school is in session- I remind him that vacations are our reward for hard work. I work and his job is school.

 

This really just simplifies my life. Relatives don't ask me to do cruises during the school year because they know I won't go. And I don't even look at deals in the winter anymore. We just don't go away in the winter anymore. Both my sons (one is 24) like to be home for the holidays anyway.

 

Another thing you need to keep in mind- there aren't many kids on off- season cruises. Although on 7 night caribbean cruises there will always be some. But if you wanted to do a European cruise, South American cruise of Panama Canal cruise- you'd see fewer kids off season. So it might not be as much fun for the kids.

[legion3]

Wow public schools have become pow camps.

Gulags with task masters ;)

 

 

Yes I would pull my kids out of school but currently they are quite young and they both go to private school. Given what I pay them

i would not be interested in any lectures on the kids education needs vs the kids family time needs. I darn sure wouldn't take it from a public school system.

 

 

A warrant for the parents :rolleyes: for kids missing school...give me a break.

 

So public school administrators are fascist, I always here they are socialists...so which is it...or is there really no difference?

[rebeccalouiseagain]

The public school system in the US under no child left behind was sponsored by Ted Kennedy and signed into law by George W. Bush. It was meant to ensure that all kids were attending school- and that parents that didn't send their kids to school were considered to be breaking the law. The unintended consequences were that normal parents who do send their kids to school aren't permitted (in most instances) to take their kids out of school for vacations.

 

I do have my gripes with the public school system but at the end of the day- I do appreciate that teachers need to be respected by parents and some of the comments here make me understand why their job is so tough.

[Ramrac]

Family time is vastly more important than school time, IMO.

 

The question is, how to balance family time and school time, taking into account other factors (especially money). I would not agree with missing school every year just to save money - though if an opportunity comes up for a once-in-a-childhood sort of holiday, then go for it. But if there are other factors - such as for example one parent works in the UK tourist industry, which basically lasts only 2 months plus Easter now that school holidays have been more or less synchronised - then he has the choice: either take his child out of school, or never take his child on holiday at all. Obviously he takes his child out of school.

 

If sick children who take time out of school can catch up, then so can healthy children. Parents' decision IMO, not teachers'. It's the parents who have the first duty to bring up the children, teachers can only be advisers, not the supreme arbiters.

 

Agreed.

[Warm Breezes]

Wow public schools have become pow camps.

Gulags with task masters ;)

 

 

Yes I would pull my kids out of school but currently they are quite young and they both go to private school. Given what I pay them

i would not be interested in any lectures on the kids education needs vs the kids family time needs. I darn sure wouldn't take it from a public school system.

 

 

A warrant for the parents :rolleyes: for kids missing school...give me a break.

 

So public school administrators are fascist, I always here they are socialists...so which is it...or is there really no difference?

 

Not all public schools are like this. I know ours isn't.

[Warm Breezes]

I know what parents go through in trying to schedule vacations and i just got to the point where i said- summer is our time. It just makes the most sense for us. My son is out of school from mid-June to late August and if we weren't on vacation- he'd be in summer camps which cost alot of money. So the way I see it- is we have so much time at our disposal and the world is our oyster. This summer we did a 19 day vacation and now we are doing a week to Bermuda this Sunday.

 

The rest of the year we have fun but we do things close to home that don't require him missing any school. When school is in session- I remind him that vacations are our reward for hard work. I work and his job is school.

 

This really just simplifies my life. Relatives don't ask me to do cruises during the school year because they know I won't go. And I don't even look at deals in the winter anymore. We just don't go away in the winter anymore. Both my sons (one is 24) like to be home for the holidays anyway.

 

Another thing you need to keep in mind- there aren't many kids on off- season cruises. Although on 7 night caribbean cruises there will always be some. But if you wanted to do a European cruise, South American cruise of Panama Canal cruise- you'd see fewer kids off season. So it might not be as much fun for the kids.

 

That's nice when you can get off in the summer. We've had a couple years where we couldn't. I am always limited to the last weeks of any month being available for me to take off due to my work schedule. June is always out due to DD's nationals (which have luckily always fallen in those last 2 weeks of June). That leaves the last 2 weeks in July and the last 2 weeks in August and if DH can't get one of those weeks off we can't vacation in the summer. The same thing goes for the Thanksgiving and Christmas weeks and my schedule always means no Spring Break. DH has to put in his vacation requests in October for the next years vacations. DH has been working for his company for 28 years. He is still low man on pole seniority wise. This means there are years when we can't take a vacation during the school holidays. Sometimes people just can't say "summer is our time"....

 

IMHO family time is not more important than education...but education does not mean sitting in a classroom. It means learning the material covered. Some kids can learn that outside of the classroom. Some kids can't. The proof is in their grades.

[6rugrats]

The public school system in the US under no child left behind was sponsored by Ted Kennedy

God bless dear Teddy. Without No Child Left Behind, my children wouldn't ever get through school. They'd all still be in kindergarten; I know that nap time was the favorite subject of all of them, and thinking about it, it still is. With No Child Left Behind, it's move up and move along, no matter what the grades. Thank goodness I had enough children that I could save the older kid's assignments.

 

Sure helps the younger ones, as the schools just keep assigning the same work over and over. They've got tests and papers to copy right at home, and we don't have to waste time and money online looking for ones to purchased. Saved almost enough to pull the middle one out of school during the school year to take on a cruise. Every penny counts.

 

And, with the extra help, last year I had one child with all AP (in our district this stands for "Attitude Plus" and believe me, this one has it in spades) classes! I'm so proud. Combined with her extra-curricular activities (she's the school mascot for our local Continuation High) and helping out with her court ordered public service activities (a long story), she's kept pretty busy. Not sure how I could pull her out of school for a cruise; she actually asked me and dad not to even consider it, as she does love wearing that orange vest and picking up the trash on the weekends off the side of the road.

 

Wow public schools have become pow camps.

Gulags with task masters

I agree. They assign so much homework, at least 10-15 minutes a day (don't know if your district is as bad), it is like a forced labor camp. "pow" camps, now I can't agree with that one though. Our schools have a zero tolerance policy and any hitting results in an immediate suspension.

 

And don't get me started on the principal at the middle school. Now that's one scary lady.

 

Yes I would pull my kids out of school but currently they are quite young and they both go to private school. Given what I pay them

i would not be interested in any lectures on the kids education needs vs the kids family time needs. I darn sure wouldn't take it from a public school system.

 

So public school administrators are fascist, I always here they are socialists...so which is it...or is there really no difference?

After reading your post, I'd say private school is probably money well spent for your kids. I've found mine also needed a bit of special help with spelling and punctuation. Of course, we did spend some time in the Oakland school district, back in the day when the City Council was trying to make "Ebonics" an offical language. It's been hard for them to go back to good old regular English after that experiment. Been handy for the oldest boy when he wants to sound real "street" in his hip hop and rap songs. While he's paying his debt to society, they are letting him use an old answering machine to record his songs, and I'm sure as soon as he gets out, he'll be able to make enough money that maybe we all can cruise in the summer and not worry about missing school! That'd be something!

 

I don't know about "fascists" but our administrators are pretty social and I should know because I've spent many hours talking to them in their offices.

[grandma*knows*best]

Public schools in the US are not flexible. If a child misses school you really have to have a justifiable reason. I seriously doubt the first thing a serviceman does when he gets home is go on vacation anyway.

 

This simply is not true. As someone already posted, policies vary by state and school district, even sometimes individual schools. I live in MD myself and Baltimore County policy is not the policy in all MD counties.

 

As the spouse of a service member (and veteran myself), I can assure you that many service members go on vacations after (and during) deployments.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Another big consideration. I'm hearing that so many people can't schedule their vacations except during the school year.

 

I don't know about you- but I like to have a real vacation and if I had to do schoolwork on the one week of vacation I had with my family- that wouldn't really be a fun vacation for me. And if you multiply that by three kids- that's a lot of schoolwork.

 

I don't take work on vacation.

[6rugrats]

As the spouse of a service member (and veteran myself), I can assure you that many service members go on vacations after (and during) deployments.

Thank you for your service grandma. Do you ask for military discounts when you cruise?

[Warm Breezes]

Another big consideration. I'm hearing that so many people can't schedule their vacations except during the school year.

 

I don't know about you- but I like to have a real vacation and if I had to do schoolwork on the one week of vacation I had with my family- that wouldn't really be a fun vacation for me. And if you multiply that by three kids- that's a lot of schoolwork.

 

I don't take work on vacation.

 

My kids usually got most of their work done before we left or during our travel time. Usually some of the teachers gave them work ahead of time and some of them after we got back so that work couldn't be done until after we returned anyways. I don't remember them ever doing homework during our trip itself except to write in journals. Like I said before, they always got the work done by the teachers deadlines and their grades never dropped. Some kids can't handle it. As DS got older (after 7th grade), he didn't want to handle it because he had sports on top of the school work which made it harder for him to catch up...so I kept the days missed to a day or two. You have to judge by your childs willingness and ability to make up the work.