Just exactly how HAL calculates the amount of pre-authorization at boarding?

[nho9504]

We just returned from Noordam's 14 days TATL yesterday morning.

 

Upon checking our Citicards, I noticed HAL had made quite a large amount of pre-authorization on each card on 10/22 the day we started our cruise.

 

I remembered when I did the online check in, the fine print said HAL would make an pre-authorization of $860 per person - which was a tad lower than the $960 in April 2011 when we did the TATL on Neuw Amsterdam if I recalled it correctly.

 

However, the pre-authorizations this time were close to $1800 on one passenger's card and the passenger had $300 shipboard credit and almost $2000 on the other passenger's card and the passenger had $50 shipboard credit.

 

Did HAL authorize BOTH passengers' amount to EACH passenger's card? Otherwise I fail to see how there would be such a high amount of authorization on a 14 days cruise.

 

On top of that, the amounts were not even, they had pennies - it looks as if HAL is converting Euro to USD when making pre-authorization - that does not make any sense because the currency on the ship is USD. Citicard also confirmed that the pre-authorization was done in USD. Still, why they were $1774.95 and $1908.50 respectively?

 

Just exactly how HAL comes up with such weird (and fairly large) amount? Does it wishfully assume the passenger would spend $150 A Day in Average on a basically fully paid for room-and-board type of trip?

 

While our credit cards have high limit so the pre-authorizations even unreasonably high, only account for less than 15% of the total available credit limit, I can see this can create issues for some people if their cards have limits that are below $10K and there are several persons in the travel party, especially if they have a lengthy continuing land trip after the cruise.

 

When we do Eastbound TATL we often tag on a 30 days long land trip after the cruise. Hotel stays could eat up a lot of the credit limit - for example, last time I was told at InterContinental Paris that the hotel would block 150 euro per day for the whole stay at check in. For the hotels to do that it makes sense because you may dine at the hotel at least once a day - Breakfast or dinner - so the 150 euro a day isn't outrageous. But when you multiple that by 20 to 30 days, the total amount is not trivial. Then if the cruise line like HAL, pre-block a sizable amount from your credit line, it would affect your subsequent lengthy land trip if your credit card limit is below $10K. So here you are, half of your credit card limit is blocked for phony "pending charges" thus not available to you while you have never spent that amount. It can cause quite a bit inconvenience.

 

Another annoying aspect is, the blockage can take weeks to fall off depends on banks. In the case of Citi, I have seen pending charges without billing can stay there for 30 days based on how Princess doing its pre-authorization (not a lump sum, but a daily amount determined by the TOTAL outstanding balance up to that day after midnight of EVERYDAY of the cruise instead of an incremental - because of such method, the final bill will NEVER come any close to the numerous pre-authorizations therefore the pre-authorizations were all "orphaned" without matching billing and would take 30 or more days to fall off.

 

Yes, I fully understand Pending does not mean Billed. Yes, I also understand some folks can incur many more thousands dollars of bill on their cruises - However I firmly believe that the majority of passengers dont incur a lot of incidentals on a cruise. So there is no need to post on these 2 areas.

 

I just want to know if anyone knows/understands how HAL comes up such amount of pre-authorization on a 14 days cruise.

[kazu]

For what it's worth - my understanding was the hold was $60 per day per passenger unless it was a longer cruise (much more than 14 days) so that would be $840 by my math but if HAL said $860 - that's fine too.

 

Now, that is per passenger - so if there are two passengers in the cabin using the same credit card it is going to be close to $1700.

 

 

Just wondering - did the people who had the larger charges happen to have any extra passengers in the cabin or children? These may book at a reduced price or even free but they still are subject to the daily hold unless other arrangements can be made.

 

I'm not sure I understand or can explain what you encountered but the hold aspect is no different than hotels. HAL is just straightforward about it. Once the payment is made I am certain that the electronic hold is dropped by HAl automatically. How long your credit card takes to process the cancelled hold is a horse of a different colour;) (yes I have a banking background).

 

I think your questions raise more questions. do mistakes happen? of course - I'm not saying no mistake could be made. But I do find it all very strange to say the least.

[nho9504]

2 persons in the cabin - me and DH - we used our own individual cards for our accounts by purpose. 2 persons in the same cabin with 2 credit cards - shouldn't each person only responsible for his / her own $860?

 

That is why I suspect HAL has put 2 persons' amount on EACH card - still, this does not explain why the difference between the 2 authorization did not equal to the difference of the OBCs - i.e. one person had $300, the other person had $50. ($250 CCL + $50x2 FCD). Plus why it was close to $2000 on one person, almost $300 higher than the $1700 calculation based on $60 x 14 x 2?

 

It may be (gasp) such calculation is manually done (instead of automatically handled by the system), and someone who did ours, was math-challenged or did not even understand the rules - all said person knows is the $1700 for 2 persons in the cabin and then automatically applied to each card - and then said person sees a $300 credit - instead of taking it off from the amount to be authorized, s/he adds it back - the only way to explain why my card had almost $2K authorized as I only had $50 OBC under my name. DH got a full authorization and then some (over $1700). Strange.

[Krazy Kruizers]

This sounds like when they filled out the information, they checked off both people being able to use each other's card on the ship -- thus the multiple charge holds.

[Esri]

nho9504 -- Did you call HAL and ask them?

 

It certainly sounds like a mistake was made and the easiest way to figure it out would be to call HAL. Even though a hold is not a "charge", it does tie up your funds and you should bring the issue to HAL's attention. I am sure they would want to prevent such mistakes in the future, assuming it is a mistake -- and I can't see any situation in which it wasn't a mistake.

[aussiedisneyfan]

I didn't think HAL took into consideration any OBCs you may have. So if it was 10 days it would be $600 regardless of whether you had say $500obc. Am I wrong should it only be $100? That does sort of make sense.

 

No explanation for the odd hold amounts.

[kazu]

I didn't think HAL took into consideration any OBCs you may have. So if it was 10 days it would be $600 regardless of whether you had say $500obc. Am I wrong should it only be $100? That does sort of make sense.

 

No explanation for the odd hold amounts.

 

I don't believe obc's are taken into account. The hold is a non issue with me - but one cruise I had significant obc's and noticed that the hold amount was the same. I suspect the hold is automatic and not individualized

[nho9504]

This sounds like when they filled out the information, they checked off both people being able to use each other's card on the ship -- thus the multiple charge holds.

 

NOPE.

 

Besides, you only get the screen to attach a new CC to the 2nd person in the cabin when the option you mention is NOT checked off. If it is checked off, the screen for the 2nd person's payment option does NOT show up.

 

We wanted EACH person to have his / her own card for the shipboard account for a purpose and found that ONLY when the option you talked about is NOT checked off, then we could add a new card to the 2nd person.

 

So it is not what you speculated here.

[nho9504]

nho9504 -- Did you call HAL and ask them?

 

It certainly sounds like a mistake was made and the easiest way to figure it out would be to call HAL. Even though a hold is not a "charge", it does tie up your funds and you should bring the issue to HAL's attention. I am sure they would want to prevent such mistakes in the future, assuming it is a mistake -- and I can't see any situation in which it wasn't a mistake.

 

No. I dont bother to call HAL on this UNLESS the holds do not fall off for extensive time, like passing 30 days. I agree it is a mistake but I am not sure how really HAL would care especially the cruise has already been done

 

Yes, it ties up the "available credit" on our cards but they are not real "funds" like the effect on a debit card which directly linked to your bank account therefore you have money sitting in the bank yet not available to you. In our case this is "available credit" that we could charge up that is being tied up - not a biggie because our cards have high enough limits that we would never run up to even 50% of the total limit at any given billing cycle, and the tie-ups are less than 15% of the total limit. Besides the cards used are not our day-to-day cards but specific co-branded Hilton HHonor cards which we have fulfilled our purposes to put specific charges on them thru this cruise so mission accomplished and they go back to sock drawer.

 

I am merely curious HOW in the world HAL could put thru such an odd amount authorization on each card. It certainly looks to me it is MANUALLY DONE and some % calculation or exchange rate translation is being used otherwise I fail to understand why they were not even, nice numbers based on the $60 a day per person calculation.

 

At this moment I guess nobody could speculate a remotely plausible speculation other than assuming mistakes have been made, MANUALLY. I dont see a pre-programmed, automatically sent thru authorization would result to such odd numbers on the hold.

 

I didn't think HAL took into consideration any OBCs you may have. So if it was 10 days it would be $600 regardless of whether you had say $500obc. Am I wrong should it only be $100? That does sort of make sense.

 

No explanation for the odd hold amounts.

 

I know Princess always takes the OBC into account. Princess does not put a hold upfront. Instead Princess put a hold on daily ACTUAL account balance everyday after midnight. (verified a few times with purser desk on several cruises). As such, when your account still have credit balance, there is NO HOLD for that day.

 

I do not remember what is the HAL practice last time when in 2011 we sailed Neuw Amsterdam East Bound when we also had $350 OBC in total and the account was on a single CC.

[cruz chic]

So, you don't want any opinions and you don't want to call HAL. Seems like you just want to complain then? Sorry, but instead of guessing HAL could tell you for sure. Wouldn't that be the easiest?

[Krazy Kruizers]

HAL has been putting the "hold" on credit cards for years.

On another thread I talked about an incident with a young honeymoon couple -- and this was back in 2005.

[kazu]

My attitude has always been to have a high enough limit that these holds will not impact you. Holds are standard practice in most businesses.

 

The hold does not worry me unless it will impact if I can use my card. Unless there is an impact to a person, i can't see worrying about a hold that is there on a temporary basis:p;) If it is of concern, then i would contact HAL - they can't fix mistakes if they don't know about them;)

[nho9504]

So, you don't want any opinions and you don't want to call HAL. Seems like you just want to complain then? Sorry, but instead of guessing HAL could tell you for sure. Wouldn't that be the easiest?

 

I was hoping some folks here would explain the mystery of the calculation. So far there hasn't been any but at least we agree on there seems to be mistakes based on deduction and elimination process on the possible culprits.

 

For the fact I am not even complaining. If I want to complain I would call HAL to let them know that they may have made a mistake in this - but since the mistake has not caused any real damage, what is the point to "complain"? Unless of course if the backing is a debit card instead of a credit card, then yes, I would complain to HAL because the hold would then tie up real fund.

 

Still, it makes me wonder why some posters could not stand any slightest "negative" posts before they brand others being complainer.

 

What is wrong to just want to complain? Is it this board's rule that people could not complain for something they dont like?

[kazu]

I was hoping some folks here would explain the mystery of the calculation. So far there hasn't been any but at least we agree on there seems to be mistakes based on deduction and elimination process on the possible culprits.

 

For the fact I am not even complaining. If I want to complain I would call HAL to let them know that they may have made a mistake in this - but since the mistake has not caused any real damage, what is the point to "complain"? Unless of course if the backing is a debit card instead of a credit card, then yes, I would complain to HAL because the hold would then tie up real fund.

 

Still, it makes me wonder why some posters could not stand any slightest "negative" posts before they brand others being complainer.

 

What is wrong to just want to complain? Is it this board's rule that people could not complain for something they dont like?

 

there is nothing wrong if you have an issue - nor if there is a question.

 

The problem is - you are asking a question that I don't think any of us can answer - the answer can only come from HAL - I am assuming it is a mistake (but what do I know). As I said in another post, I encourage you to contact HAL to ask - if they don't know they made a mistake, they can't fix it:D

[Typhoon1]

$60.00 per person per day.

[Hawaiidan]

are the result of currency conversion at the daily spot rate that they might have been done on and a international conversion fee calculated is what I would suspect

 

But...and a big but its just a hold its not a charge... The compoany is only seeing if you have the funds to make the cruise and not stiff them , thats all.

Get a good card and use it lots and pau it off monthly and its easy to get very nice 5 figure limits that will preclude porblems in the future

Hey I just stayed 2 nights ina Marriott on points ( free) and rented a Hertz car pre paid for 3 days. Marriott put a $100 a night hold on each free night and Hertz $200 on the pre paid rental.

 

And Hal just put a $5000 hold for an 43 day cruise later this year...

Get the credit limit you need by building good credit and using the card and paying it off monthly!

[nho9504]

HAL has been putting the "hold" on credit cards for years.

On another thread I talked about an incident with a young honeymoon couple -- and this was back in 2005.

 

My attitude has always been to have a high enough limit that these holds will not impact you. Holds are standard practice in most businesses.

 

The hold does not worry me unless it will impact if I can use my card. Unless there is an impact to a person, i can't see worrying about a hold that is there on a temporary basis:p;) If it is of concern, then i would contact HAL - they can't fix mistakes if they don't know about them;)

 

The goal for this thread is:

 

1) Share this info with the board and hope some folks could come up with an explanation of why the holds were so strange (not in even amount per the $60 per day per person rule), and doubled the amount it should have been.

The consensus is, HAL has made a mistake.

There is no need for HAL to correct this mistake as it would self-corrected given time, and this would most likely what I would be told if I call HAL... Since it would be self-corrected, I doubt HAL would actually go to the bottom of the thing, i.e. how this would ever happen?

 

2) This thread may once again reminds people the impact of a high amount "hold" could be on some folks, especially if they are using debit cards. Your practice to use a high limit card is a good one. To take this further, I would say to use a card that is not your card(s) for the expenses of the same trip in the case you have an extended land trip post cruise, assuming you have a 0% forex fee card that you would need for international travel. Since the ship uses US Currency, you dont need the 0% forex fee feature, so use other cards for your shipboard account so your 0% forex fee card's credit limit would not be tied up.

 

As a side note, we have specific cards for specific purposes - hotel cards for specific hotel chains, 0% forex fee cards. high earning rate cards for category spends and such... Our trip that ended with this cruise was 39 days long, including 2 days in NYC then 3 days in Budapest and 4 days in Vienna, flew to Rome 2 days before taking a RCCL's 11 days Holy Lands cruise on Mariner of the Sea, then after 2 days layover in Rome, we took Noordam to sail home.

 

Because we stayed in both Marriott and IHG hotels on our land portions, we brought the Marriott Visa and Priority Club Visa with us for the hotel bills for the bonus points.

 

We also carry our chip and signature Citi Premium card which has 0% forex fee and the chip feature makes it much more convenient in Europe than the swipe only mag card (though it still failed at Vienna's train station kiosks as they were offline verification but the US-issued chip and signature cards dont have PIN in the chip - therefore only online, i.e. real time, transaction would work.) BTW, the chip and signature card works both way - it can be read either by the chip or by the mag strip.

We also brought a BofA chip and signature card as back up.

 

All told, outside the 2 Hilton HHonor cards used for the Noordam cruise, we have 8 other cards with us on this trip, all for specific purposes and luckily all have 0% forex fee - it really is too many cards to bring (the aggregated credit limit is almost a silly $100K) but in the name of maximizing bonus earnings, I would do it. ;)

[vicocala]

Since you don't use the card often, is it possible the card is set up for Euro's or some other foriegn country? In that case the answer would of been truthfully yes if it was in American dollars but was converted to American dollars either by HAL or your bank.

 

Is your bank an American Bank? If not, then the same thing. In addition, it does sound like they doubled down on both cards instead of doing it individually which would be an error.

 

For the sake of other travelers, if not yourself, please contact HAL and get the straight story and share it back on this thread.

 

Thanks!

[nho9504]

are the result of currency conversion at the daily spot rate that they might have been done on and a international conversion fee calculated is what I would suspect

 

The hold is done in US Dollar in $60 per person per day. There is NO currency conversion comes in the picture whatsoever. As I stated in my first or second post, on the check-in page, HAL said it would be $860 per person - why it was $860 but not $840 as $60 x 14, is beyond my wisdom, let alone such odd looking amounts appear on our cards. ;)

 

But...and a big but its just a hold its not a charge... The compoany is only seeing if you have the funds to make the cruise and not stiff them , thats all.

Get a good card and use it lots and pau it off monthly and its easy to get very nice 5 figure limits that will preclude porblems in the future

Hey I just stayed 2 nights ina Marriott on points ( free) and rented a Hertz car pre paid for 3 days. Marriott put a $100 a night hold on each free night and Hertz $200 on the pre paid rental.

 

And Hal just put a $5000 hold for an 43 day cruise later this year...

Get the credit limit you need by building good credit and using the card and paying it off monthly!

 

Read my side note about our trip - we stayed 3 days in Budapest at Boscolo, a Marriott Autographic Collection, 4 days in Vienna at Imperial Riding School Renaissance - all on pay rates as we are doing the Fall Megabonus promotion and on Gold Challenge - I did not see Boscolos put on any hold at check in, but IRS Ren did put in a 150 euro worth of hold which the room rate itself was already 120 euro, so the hold was VERY reasonable. We were upgraded to Junior suite at Boscolo - the room looked EXACTLY like the pix on Marriott website - check it out and I believe you would be impressed. The complementary brekkie as Gold benefit was an excellent buffet offering at the landmark New York Cafe which itself is a sightseeing spot in Budapest. At Vienna we were upgraded to Club room at the building across street. The club is wonderful. Very decent breakfast and passable hot and cold evening offerings. The alcoholic beverages in the evening include reasonable quality Champagne, White and Red wine, several kinds of beer and hard liquors for cocktails. One can easily eat and drink 50 euro worth at the club everyday, for free. This would be our choice of hotel should we re-visit Vienna.

 

As for the credit limit? We have close to $100K aggregated credit limit on the cards we brought with this trip because we brought quite a few cards - not for their limits, but for the specific spend that goes on each card, such that we would earn the maximum bonus on Marriott stay when using a Marriott Visa to pay the hotel bill. Ditto for the IHG hotels we stayed at the 2 separate 2 days in Rome.

 

Again, the hold is NEVER an issue on us regarding the usage of the cards. I am just curious to see how in the world the hold is not in the round figure based on the $60 a day number, but a rather weird sum.

[nho9504]

Since you don't use the card often, is it possible the card is set up for Euro's or some other foriegn country? In that case the answer would of been truthfully yes if it was in American dollars but was converted to American dollars either by HAL or your bank.

 

Is your bank an American Bank? If not, then the same thing. In addition, it does sound like they doubled down on both cards instead of doing it individually which would be an error.

 

For the sake of other travelers, if not yourself, please contact HAL and get the straight story and share it back on this thread.

 

Thanks!

 

The cards are Citibank's Hilton HHonor Visa Signature. I guess not everyone knows Citi is the US bank that is bailed out by the US Government in the financial crisis from 2008 and our government still owns a big chunk of the bank's stock. Yes, it is a US currency card. I dont think any US bank could set up a foreign currency card. AMEX issues foreign currency cards but those cards are NOT technically issued by AMEX in US but thru a separate entity. (too much OT already. :p)

 

I may give it a try and call HAL tomorrow then report back. Though I strongly suspect that they would just say, "dont worry about it, the hold would drop off and you would only be charged the final bill's amount." So there would not be any meaningful answer on this curious issue (mistake).

[SilvertoGold]

Thank you, OP nho9504, for starting this thread.

 

This whole business gives me the creeps and is why we pay cash. With non-USD currency, it costs us more on our credit cards just to start with and then all the problems with the credit card hold thrown into the mix is enough to discourage us from never, ever paying by credit card.

 

Hope all this works out for you.

[vicocala]

"On top of that, the amounts were not even, they had pennies - it looks as if HAL is converting Euro to USD when making pre-authorization - that does not make any sense because the currency on the ship is USD. Citicard also confirmed that the pre-authorization was done in USD. Still, why they were $1774.95 and $1908.50 respectively?"

 

This statement is what sent me off on the foreign currency track. Your location is not in the upper right hand which is why I thought you were not a US citizen, given your statement.

 

As most large U.S. banks are multi-national, I am sure most of them have credit cards in the local country's currency.

 

I will look with interest at the reply they give you although I have never had an issue. Once the card was billed I had no pending charge. I do show a pending charge overnight when I buy anything on the internet with Sun Trust, so everyone who is on-line besides those already mentioned put a hold on until the charge hits my home bank.

 

I can see where multiple holds can be a problem, but being stiffed by passengers would be a bigger problem. I think the way Princess does it as described here sounds like a very nice compromise.

[cruz chic]

I was hoping some folks here would explain the mystery of the calculation. So far there hasn't been any but at least we agree on there seems to be mistakes based on deduction and elimination process on the possible culprits.

 

For the fact I am not even complaining. If I want to complain I would call HAL to let them know that they may have made a mistake in this - but since the mistake has not caused any real damage, what is the point to "complain"? Unless of course if the backing is a debit card instead of a credit card, then yes, I would complain to HAL because the hold would then tie up real fund.

 

Still, it makes me wonder why some posters could not stand any slightest "negative" posts before they brand others being complainer.

 

What is wrong to just want to complain? Is it this board's rule that people could not complain for something they dont like?

How can anyone explain it? Everyone is guessing. HAL could enlighten you in a few minutes so why not make the call? It's fine if you want to complain and I certainly do about HAL but I wouldn't come to message board to explain a "strange" hold.

[arzz]

Thank you nho9504

 

I had not realized exactly what the difference was between "chip and PIN" and "chip and signature" cards. We have had our difficulties on our last couple of overseas trips with our magnetic strip only cards not working in places (such as mass transit kiosks), so we ordered a chip and signature version of our favorite credit card -- specifically to use overseas (after, of course, we purchased the stainless steel wallets to carry them in).

 

It sounds like the chip and signature versions are not going to solve all of our issues. Best to travel pre-warned. We always provide a back up for ourselves so we never really get stuck -- but would prefer to use the credit card in many situations.

 

Sorry, I can shed no light at all on how HAL calculates the credit card hold. It is all voodoo to me.

[Boytjie]

No. I dont bother to call HAL on this UNLESS the holds do not fall off for extensive time, like passing 30 days.

 

 

I am merely curious HOW in the world HAL could put thru such an odd amount authorization on each card. It certainly looks to me it is MANUALLY DONE and some % calculation or exchange rate translation is being used otherwise I fail to understand why they were not even, nice numbers based on the $60 a day per person calculation.

 

Nobody here will be able to explain it so if you want an explanation, call HAL.

 

 

I know Princess always takes the OBC into account. Princess does not put a hold upfront. Instead Princess put a hold on daily ACTUAL account balance everyday after midnight. (verified a few times with purser desk on several cruises). As such, when your account still have credit balance, there is NO HOLD for that day.

 

That is not how I remember Princess handling it but that was a while ago. IIRC correctly when filling in online data it stated a specific dollar amount that would be held.