Shame on HAL

[peaches from georgia]

you might be right, but how do you know that they do get pay ???

 

I was told by two different steward, from two different services and very clearly that they do not get pay, so right from the mouth of the horse.

I'm not disputing you were told that, but I find it hard to believe they don't get paid while the ship is in drydock. They are on the ship and working. They have a union which I can't imagine would allow them to work and not get paid. Of course they are paid much less because of no tips.

[sail7seas]

This dry dock is 14 days. If a pair of room stewards lose out on $8 (35% of $23) per day per cabin and have 30 cabins to service, that's $3,360 for the full dry dock - $1,680 per man. That's not chump change to me, and I'm sure they miss it even more! :(

 

Do any of us know if HAL makes up the difference in pay due to loss of tips? No one seems to have considered whether that happens. Maybe they have a guarantee for a 'minimum'?

 

The hotel crew (Filipino and Indonesian) are not quite as poor as some imagine. I've seen photos of some of their houses and SOME live very nicely. Mansions? No..... but many are very nice.

 

Another point to keep in mind...... They willingly sign contracts to return to the ships and they are members of union.

No one loves HAL crews more than DH and I do but we are realists. We would stand up for them each and every time but they know dry dock is part of the deal when they sign onto ships.

 

 

And I wonder why certain people feel it necessary to inquire about information that is none of their business.

 

 

Yes,..... and thank you. That is a pet peave of mine. I do not consider anyone's wages my business unless they owe me money. :)

 

 

For those who doubt what Copper 10-8 has shared here with us, think about this for a minute.........

 

I KNOW he works on HAL ships as Security Officer. That is a position of high trust and great importance. I KNOW he works on the ships as DH and I have sailed with him...... in uniform. Why would someone who is well known on this forum, is well known to be Security Officer on HAL ships state anything in writing for the world to read that he does not absolutely know to be true? I am very sure no one, not anyone, would imply such a thing. That is too hard to contemplate. It is so out of the question.

 

He settled the matter. He told us the situation.

OP....... You can believe him and not worry about slavery on HAL ships in dry dock.

Hopefully you feel better about this subject now that we've 'hashed it out'.

 

 

 

 

[Linda&Vern]

Do any of us know if HAL makes up the difference in pay due to loss of tips? No one seems to have considered whether that happens. Maybe they have a guarantee for a 'minimum'?

 

The hotel crew (Filipino and Indonesian) are not quite as poor as some imagine. I've seen photos of some of their houses and SOME live very nicely. Mansions? No..... but many are very nice.

 

Another point to keep in mind...... They willingly sign contracts to return to the ships and they are members of union.

No one loves HAL crews more than DH and I do but we are realists. We would stand up for them each and every time but they know dry dock is part of the deal when they sign onto ships.

 

Yes,..... and thank you. That is a pet peave of mine. I do not consider anyone's wages my business unless they owe me money. :)

 

For those who doubt what Copper 10-8 has shared here with us, think about this for a minute.........

 

I KNOW he works on HAL ships as Security Officer. That is a position of high trust and great importance. I KNOW he works on the ships as DH and I have sailed with him...... in uniform. Why would someone who is well known on this forum, is well known to be Security Officer on HAL ships state anything in writing for the world to read that he does not absolutely know to be true? I am very sure no one, not anyone, would imply such a thing. That is too hard to contemplate. It is so out of the question.

 

He settled the matter. He told us the situation.

OP....... You can believe him and not worry about slavery on HAL ships in dry dock.

Hopefully you feel better about this subject now that we've 'hashed it out'.

AMEN ... thanks Sail!

[world~citizen]

Do any of us know if HAL makes up the difference in pay due to loss of tips?

 

No we don't. As I have noted, we also don't know if there are deductions taken from their remuneration. This might be problematic if gross income floated at around 5 dollars an hour as I originally suggested. Which of these questions, if any, seems more likely?

 

Suffice to say that staff remuneration suffers when there are no gratuities. As to the OP, it seems nothing will convince him contrary to what he believes he was told.

 

With reference to your ongoing observation that other people's remuneration is not your business, I offer this quote which resonated with me from my childhood. It is Marley's response to Scrooge's suggestion that he was a good man of business:

 

Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence were all my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!

----Dickens (A Christmas Carol)

 

Something for all of us to think about at this time of year.

 

Smooth sailing and Seasons Greetings to you Sail...

[JLC@SD]

you might be right, but how do you know that they do get pay ???

 

I was told by two different steward, from two different services and very clearly that they do not get pay, so right from the mouth of the horse.

 

It has been clear (by Copper) that they get their "base" pay. They probably do not get their "tip" pay because there are no passengers.

 

I am sure they probably continue to get their "room and board" compensation. It is acceptable to the rest of the crew or they would not have signed their contracts.

 

If these two were my employees .....there is the door, don't let it hit you in the butt on the way out....;)

[santa fe]

It has been clear (by Copper) that they get their "base" pay. They probably do not get their "tip" pay because there are no passengers.

 

I am sure they probably continue to get their "room and board" compensation. It is acceptable to the rest of the crew or they would not have signed their contracts.

 

If these two were my employees .....there is the door, don't let it hit you in the butt on the way out....;)

 

So if Copper (who is an HAL employee) say that they are getting pay that is right...and if the employee say the opposite they are wrong, they lie...

[mariner]

What I know is this: My employees are not allowed to respond to chat rooms, period. Never a good thing.

[sail7seas]

So if Copper (who is an HAL employee) say that they are getting pay that is right...and if the employee say the opposite they are wrong, they lie...

 

 

Copper has a great deal of credibility around here.

The nameless, faceless stewards referenced here are not known to us.

 

The stewards were wrong to even be speaking of it to any guest and that turns me against their credibility right from the 'get go' but that is only my opinion........

 

I tend toward thinking they may have been fishing for higher tips but, of course, I wasn't there.

 

 

[ChelseaSailor]

 

Their base salary is their main salary! It does not come from tips!

 

Copper, I have always thought ,except for beverage workers, tips were the only pay the Stewards and Dinning staff received. Has the staff always been given a regular pay check or was there a time when all they got was tips. I like the system of paying the tips through the ship as they deserve to have an adequate pay. Thinking tips were their only source of pay, I also give an added tip as a matter of course. If I knew they were getting a decent wage I would link my tipping to quality of service versus making sure they were getting a fair deal.

ChelseaSailor

[sail7seas]

No we don't. As I have noted, we also don't know if there are deductions taken from their remuneration. This might be problematic if gross income floated at around 5 dollars an hour as I originally suggested. Which of these questions, if any, seems more likely?

 

Suffice to say that staff remuneration suffers when there are no gratuities. As to the OP, it seems nothing will convince him contrary to what he believes he was told.

 

With reference to your ongoing observation that other people's remuneration is not your business, I offer this quote which resonated with me from my childhood. It is Marley's response to Scrooge's suggestion that he was a good man of business:

 

Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence were all my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!

----Dickens (A Christmas Carol)

 

Something for all of us to think about at this time of year.

 

Smooth sailing and Seasons Greetings to you Sail...

 

Seasons Greetings to you, as well, World~Citizen. :)

[pms4104]

Whatever the arrangement HAL has for drydock operations, it surely was part of the contract that crew/staff signed ... and it was their choice to accept it or turn down the job opportunity.

 

Perhaps this thinly disguised white lie/fib simply was a way to solicit sympathy, and extra tips from guests on the pre-drydock sailing ... and these same crew will try the identical sob story on the guests on the first couple of sailings after drydock?

[JLC@SD]

So if Copper (who is an HAL employee) say that they are getting pay that is right...and if the employee say the opposite they are wrong, they lie...

 

....maybe they may be "exaggerating" ....and feel that with no "tip pay" .....they are not "getting paid" ....;)

 

...and the two of them and Copper would both be correct ....

[santa fe]

....maybe they may be "exaggerating" ....and feel that with no "tip pay" .....they are not "getting paid" ....;)

 

...and the two of them and Copper would both be correct ....

 

...again I would say that this might be right, who to belive, Copper, who is a (probably a middle management of HAL)...and would defend HAL position on this subject and two stewards who might be frustated of getting ( a very low salary without tips)...a question of credibility!!!!

 

And as a poster mention earlier, I doubt very much that their basic salary is 3,000$ a month is real...without tips...wich would equal to 36,000 $ a year + tips...at this salary the crew would be all americans.

[startwin]

There's no reasoning with this poster, you might as well just move on.

[cjm66]

 

Oh yeah, contrary to popular belief and rumor control, the crew gets time off at night and many hit the local town

 

We were on the Oosterdam not long before her dry dock in Sydney and this came up in parting conversation with our stewards. They were looking forward to the time in Sydney with a shorter working day, different duties and the opportunity to go ashore as much for the free Internet as for sight seeing. We did not discuss pay. Perhaps they were saying what they thought we would want to hear, but that did not come through in their voices or body language.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[bobpell]

We got off the Z in FLL as hundreds of European workers were getting ready to board for 10 days in drydock.

Our cabin stewards and aft lido deck attendants were thrilled that their work day would be 8 hours not the standard 11 hours while in drydock

Bobpell

[Minoushka]

Uh, "regular people", really?

 

What I meant is any one of us .here in Canada or US not necessarily foreigners ....sheesh .it was not meant as a derogatory remark

 

if this is true that they can getb3000$ clear per month wih no food or rent to pay plus tip ...I think they are getting a pretty good deal How many of us make that kind of money???

in this economy if people really knew this and it were absolutelt true many North Americanns wouls work on ships

 

earning plus 3000$ is not bad ....not bad at all

[496and706]

Obviously the original poster is trying to stir something. Any of the long time or regular posters/lurkers/readers know that Copper is a trustworthy HAL employee and has very good information.

 

I'm sure that we could all respond until we were blue in the fingers and the original poster would still argue like a petulant child.

[JORAY]

Go to this site for a company trying to hire people for all ship lines. Copper 10-8 is correct!:D

 

http://www.cruiseshipjob.com/position.htm

 

You will see statement like following: Saving Money - you will be able to save a substantial amount of money in a short period of time since all your earnings will be a disposable income - expenses are taken care of by the cruise line (food, accommodation, medical care, airline ticket to the port of embarkation and back home). Citizens of certain countries do not have to pay taxes on the income they have earned aboard cruise ships.

 

Cabin Steward / Stewardess / Cabin Attendant (daily cleaning of passenger cabins) - no experience required, some experience preferred. Basic English Language skills required. Salary range: $1800-2200 U.S. per month, depending on gratuities from passengers (Plus any cash gratuities guest gives direct to steward) . Possibilities for promotion to Head Room Steward.

 

Junior Assistant Purser / Guest Service Associate (Front Desk Receptionist) - previous hotel experience and /or university degree preferable. Fluent English Language skills required and speaking other languages (German, French, Spanish or another European language) is a plus. Salary range: $1600 -2200 U.S. per month, depending on the cruise line. Possibilities for promotion to Assistant Purser

 

There was also a note that HAL pays higher, do the age groups of their guests

 

Ray

[world~citizen]

Cabin Steward / Stewardess / Cabin Attendant (daily cleaning of passenger cabins) - no experience required, some experience preferred. Basic English Language skills required. Salary range: $1800-2200 U.S. per month, depending on gratuities from passengers. Possibilities for promotion to Head Room Steward.

 

Ray

 

I think this is the relevant consideration here.

[kazu]

Go to this site for a company trying to hire people for all ship lines. Copper 10-8 is correct!:D

 

http://www.cruiseshipjob.com/position.htm

 

You will see statement like following: Saving Money - you will be able to save a substantial amount of money in a short period of time since all your earnings will be a disposable income - expenses are taken care of by the cruise line (food, accommodation, medical care, airline ticket to the port of embarkation and back home). Citizens of certain countries do not have to pay taxes on the income they have earned aboard cruise ships.

 

Cabin Steward / Stewardess / Cabin Attendant (daily cleaning of passenger cabins) - no experience required, some experience preferred. Basic English Language skills required. Salary range: $1800-2200 U.S. per month, depending on gratuities from passengers (Plus any cash gratuities guest gives direct to steward) . Possibilities for promotion to Head Room Steward.

 

Junior Assistant Purser / Guest Service Associate (Front Desk Receptionist) - previous hotel experience and /or university degree preferable. Fluent English Language skills required and speaking other languages (German, French, Spanish or another European language) is a plus. Salary range: $1600 -2200 U.S. per month, depending on the cruise line. Possibilities for promotion to Assistant Purser

 

There was also a note that HAL pays higher, do the the age group of their guests

 

Ray

 

Taking the mid point that is $24,000 per year NET (not taxes) - depending upon where you live and your tax bracket - I would put that at a minimum of the equivalent of $30,000 per year - which I am sure a number of people would like to earn.

I don't think there should be any more discussion on pay. I know they work hard - but this seems to be reasonable pay to me and it doesn't include the 'top up' tips some of us give every cruise.

[RuthC]

Taking the mid point that is $24,000 per year NET (not taxes) -

Where are you getting that this would be "net"? If the mid-point is $2000 per month, that's $24,000 gross per year. There's no reason to believe that HAL is deducting taxes for the various countries represented in it's staff.

[PeaceLoveCruise]

Oh this is painful!! :eek: Please make it stop!!

[kazu]

Where are you getting that this would be "net"? If the mid-point is $2000 per month, that's $24,000 gross per year. There's no reason to believe that HAL is deducting taxes for the various countries represented in it's staff.

 

my understanding was that the income was tax free? one of the advantages ? anyways, no worries.

[sail7seas]

Some countries do not collect income tax on wages earned abroad; other countries do. There are many on HAL ships who pay income taxes. There are some who pay income taxes to U.S., Netherlands and probably Canada as well.

 

 

I absolutely know of some who work on the ships who pay U.S. taxes.