Safety Drill on HAL - Place to Sit?

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I remember doing a muster drill on Celebrity Infinity, where our assembly station was in one of the lounges. After the compulsory talk about lifejackets etc, it was explained to us that sometimes it might not be possible for us to use our assigned lifeboat, but that one of the crew would lead us to the lifeboat we were to use. Then, so that we knew which was our regular assigned lifeboat, we followed the crew to it before we dispersed.

 

We were all able to hear the talk, we knew where to find "our" lifeboat, and we knew that, in some circumstances (such as listing of the ship) we might have to be assigned to a different lifeboat.

 

That seemed like a pretty efficient muster drill to me.

I agree, Princess and Norwegian also conduct their Life Boat Drill very similarly and it does feel like that would be a more efficient way. But I have the feeling that HAL is not going to be changing anytime soon and there are those that truly believe they want to know where their life boat is even though the ship could be listing so far to that side they are unable to get to their life boat or a fire is blazing near their life boat :rolleyes:

[RuthC]

That seemed like a pretty efficient muster drill to me.

What apparently worked well on that Celebrity ship would not work well on most HAL ships. There simply is no place for most people to muster near the lifeboats on the majority of HAL ships. Up to three decks of passenger cabins are on or under the current muster stations. It would make no sense to climb the stairs past the assembly stations, only to climb back down to get to the lifeboat.

I know I would not want to go up from Main or Lower Promenade to the Crow's Nest just to go back down to Lower Promenade to see where my boat was. Or worse, to abandon ship.

[celle]

What apparently worked well on that Celebrity ship would not work well on most HAL ships. There simply is no place for most people to muster near the lifeboats on the majority of HAL ships. Up to three decks of passenger cabins are on or under the current muster stations. It would make no sense to climb the stairs past the assembly stations, only to climb back down to get to the lifeboat.

I know I would not want to go up from Main or Lower Promenade to the Crow's Nest just to go back down to Lower Promenade to see where my boat was. Or worse, to abandon ship.

 

I agree with you up to a point. But, just looking at the deck plan of Eurodam, for example, on the Promenade deck there are the Hudson Room, Screening room, Ocean Bar, Photo gallery, conference rooms and upper dining room. All of these could be used as muster stations. In fact, I have attended musters on other ships where several lifeboat groups had assembled in different areas of the dining room and of the theatre. It doesn't have to be just a lounge that is used as a muster station.

 

On smaller ships, like Volendam, there are several lounges, as well as the dining room and theatre, one deck above the lifeboat muster stations.

 

I don't think there would ever be any need to assemble right up on the top deck.

[RuthC]

I agree with you up to a point.

Then it comes down to a difference of opinion. Looking at HAL's demographic, I consider it unreasonable to expect many passengers to climb up three decks, past the boat deck, to muster, then climb back down a deck to be shown to their assigned boat. Many people would have a tough time climbing up, perhaps heading to the rear of the dining room, then reversing the process.

 

It would be confusing for some people to have a different procedure for some ships when the majority of the ships don't easily lend themselves to muster on the boat deck.

[MermaidWatcher]

I agree, it definitely has to be held at the lifeboat stations, but something has to be done about the no-shows to avoid everyone else standing there for an additional half hour or so. On our last cruise there were several no-shows, several PA announcements, and all of us who took it seriously had to stand around waiting for those stragglers to eventually turn up. I think they should ignore them, and disembark them when found:D instead of punishing the rest of us.

 

When you check in, they should, with explicit warning and melodrama, have you sign a very simple document that informs you that the muster drill is mandatory, and anyone who does not attend will be escorted off the ship . Period. I have no tolerance for the "rules are for everyone else" crowd.

As for the inside locations, I have attended drills on RCL where the stations were inside, and granted it was more comfortable, but all I kept thinking was that in a true need to abandon ship situation, I would rather be on the deck, where I could take my chances and jump if the situation looked dire enough, rather than drown or die from fire or smoke trapped in a room full of panicking people.

Edited December 6, 2013 by MermaidWatcher

[HoneyGV]

HAL is aware of my medical issues and I do get a letter in the stateroom indicating that they know about my problems.

Don't know what or if anything they could do to help should there be a real emergency.

 

A few years ago there was a real emergency at Port Canaveral when a huge ship stopped there. I BELIEVE it was the Oasis, but not sure, anyway the auto pilot had a problem and the ship listed severely and the crew was next to useless when it happened. All of the crew, including bartenders, stewards and most everyone else who was supposed to help during this situation couldn't speak English well enough to be of help and several pax got injured.

 

I was on a cruise once where I heard a crew member insulting a pax who was disabled and needed special equipment and the jerk told the pax that he shouldn't be on a cruise if he couldn't take care of himself during an emergency. I laid into the crew member and reminded him that ALL pax are supporting his job and he should never talk to a pax that way.

 

I'd never cruise that line again. They were a bunch of uncaring jerks for the most part and it wasn't just in the ship emergency department.

 

I'm leaving in an hour from the Hard Rock Hotel in Hollywood for the Port in about an hour to board the Noordam for a wonderful 10 days of relaxation on my favorite line...HAL. :)

[HoneyGV]

While I understand some passengers may have issues with the drill outside by the actual lifeboat, I think that is an important part of the drill. The other lines that do it inside don't even know if passengers can find their lifeboat, to me that is a problem. The drill needs to resemble what will actually occur as best it can. I don't have a solution for those with limited mobility, maybe they have a separate drill or have some limited seating at each lifeboat but I am not a fan of inside lifeboat drills at all.

 

I agree with you. There have been some issues lately with ship situations and coming from a seafaring family, I believe the drills are very important and is especially important for the pax to pay more attention since so many of the crew don't speak English very well and after seeing and reading about some problems it seems the pax can't count 100% on the crew to help.

 

When a problem arises...I think it's important we, the pax, have to know what to do and keep our wits about us. Most of us have a habit of being complacent and when danger arises, many folks just blank out and scatter around not knowing the first thing of what to do.

 

I say...stick with the captain and be close to HIS launch! <JK> :)

[sackman]

Princess does it right. What use is it to have your muster drill at your assigned life boat if your assigned life boat is inoperable for whatever reason? Then you get a bunch of people panicking because they have to find a working life boat. Muster inside, direct people to wherever they need to go in an emergency from there. Makes perfect sense. I'm wondering why there would be any resistance to this kind of plan.

[RuthC]

I'm wondering why there would be any resistance to this kind of plan.

Because it makes no sense (on the majority of the ships) to walk up to at least 3-4 decks past the boat deck to get to a public deck with room to sit down? :rolleyes:

[KirkNC]

I agree with you. There have been some issues lately with ship situations and coming from a seafaring family, I believe the drills are very important and is especially important for the pax to pay more attention since so many of the crew don't speak English very well and after seeing and reading about some problems it seems the pax can't count 100% on the crew to help.

 

When a problem arises...I think it's important we, the pax, have to know what to do and keep our wits about us. Most of us have a habit of being complacent and when danger arises, many folks just blank out and scatter around not knowing the first thing of what to do.

 

I say...stick with the captain and be close to HIS launch! <JK> :)

 

 

That would have worked with Costa as their captain fell into a liferaft by accident :rolleyes:

[Mary Ellen]

I must say that I'm gobsmacked. I had no idea there were so many experts in ship design and/or emergency evacuation procedures here. I'll admit that I'm neither. That is why I depend upon the expertise of each cruise line to determine what procedures they will follow in case of an emergency.

 

In the past year or so I've sailed on cruise lines where we've mustered out on deck (HAL and Disney) and where we've mustered in public rooms (Princess and Oceania). In each situation I've had no problem understanding why that line's procedure works for them.

 

I don't understand why anyone would sail on a line where they feel that line needs the expertise of the peanut gallery here to improve their safety procedures. You are trusting them with your life after all. If you don't trust them to already have the optimal procedures - for their ships - why cruise with them?

[Fouremco]

Because it makes no sense (on the majority of the ships) to walk up to at least 3-4 decks past the boat deck to get to a public deck with room to sit down? :rolleyes:

A quick scan of the HAL fleet's deck plans suggests that the existing muster stations are all on either the promenade deck, which has adequate space for inside muster drills, or on the lower promenade, only one deck below. So I'm not sure how you arrive at 3-4 decks to be walked up. Perhaps I've misconstrued your post? :confused:

[Linda&Vern]

I must say that I'm gobsmacked. I had no idea there were so many experts in ship design and/or emergency evacuation procedures here. I'll admit that I'm neither. That is why I depend upon the expertise of each cruise line to determine what procedures they will follow in case of an emergency.

 

In the past year or so I've sailed on cruise lines where we've mustered out on deck (HAL and Disney) and where we've mustered in public rooms (Princess and Oceania). In each situation I've had no problem understanding why that line's procedure works for them.

 

I don't understand why anyone would sail on a line where they feel that line needs the expertise of the peanut gallery here to improve their safety procedures. You are trusting them with your life after all. If you don't trust them to already have the optimal procedures - for their ships - why cruise with them?

 

Common sense ... thank you!

[Bluwater7]

A few years ago there was a real emergency at Port Canaveral when a huge ship stopped there. I BELIEVE it was the Oasis, but not sure, anyway the auto pilot had a problem and the ship listed severely and the crew was next to useless when it happened. All of the crew, including bartenders, stewards and most everyone else who was supposed to help during this situation couldn't speak English well enough to be of help and several pax got injured.

 

I was on a cruise once where I heard a crew member insulting a pax who was disabled and needed special equipment and the jerk told the pax that he shouldn't be on a cruise if he couldn't take care of himself during an emergency. I laid into the crew member and reminded him that ALL pax are supporting his job and he should never talk to a pax that way.

 

I'd never cruise that line again. They were a bunch of uncaring jerks for the most part and it wasn't just in the ship emergency department.

 

I'm leaving in an hour from the Hard Rock Hotel in Hollywood for the Port in about an hour to board the Noordam for a wonderful 10 days of relaxation on my favorite line...HAL. :)

 

Just watched your sail away ... have a wonderful cruise ... we board her on the 23rd .... Love HAL :):)

[KirkNC]

I must say that I'm gobsmacked. I had no idea there were so many experts in ship design and/or emergency evacuation procedures here. I'll admit that I'm neither. That is why I depend upon the expertise of each cruise line to determine what procedures they will follow in case of an emergency.

 

In the past year or so I've sailed on cruise lines where we've mustered out on deck (HAL and Disney) and where we've mustered in public rooms (Princess and Oceania). In each situation I've had no problem understanding why that line's procedure works for them.

 

I don't understand why anyone would sail on a line where they feel that line needs the expertise of the peanut gallery here to improve their safety procedures. You are trusting them with your life after all. If you don't trust them to already have the optimal procedures - for their ships - why cruise with them?

 

That is an opinion your entitled to however, how did that approach work out in the Costa Concordia, the recent Carnival disasters or if you read the book Burning Cold when HAL lost the original Prinsendam? When it comes to my families safety I believe one should be proactive and take whatever steps one consider necessary beyond what service providers may recommend. I find your reference to peanut gallery and ship design offense to the general banter of the conversation in this thread. This forum is cruise critic, what we do is discuss, analyze and provide our opinion on all aspects of cruising including the ones relating to safety.

Edited December 6, 2013 by KirkNC

[Mary Ellen]

FYI - I was on the cruise immediately prior to the one in the book Burning Cold. Due to an extreme storm we arrived very late in Vancouver (after noon) and saw many of those waiting to board the Prinsendam for her cruise across the Pacific. They were quite elderly. We were extremely impressed that the Captain and crew safely evacuated everyone. This was the primary reason we have stuck with HAL for so long.

 

I have never sailed on Costa or Carnival. There are other lines on which we won't sail as they don't fall in our category of 'trust'.

 

We are proactive but we still trust the expertise of cruise lines on which we sail far more than the peanut gallery here. I stand by my use of the term 'peanut gallery. It fits.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Mary Ellen

[RuthC]

A quick scan of the HAL fleet's deck plans suggests that the existing muster stations are all on either the promenade deck, which has adequate space for inside muster drills, or on the lower promenade, only one deck below. So I'm not sure how you arrive at 3-4 decks to be walked up. Perhaps I've misconstrued your post? :confused:

You've miscounted the decks.

On the majority of the ships (8 out of 15), the current muster stations are on Lower Promenade. That, and the full two decks below, are fully passenger cabin decks. (walk up a possible two decks to get to the current stations) The bulk of the public decks with sitting room is two decks above Lower Promenade, on Upper Promenade. That's a possible four decks for a passenger base with a significant degree of mobility problems to climb up---only to walk back down two decks to be brought to the actual boats.

[KirkNC]

FYI - I was on the cruise immediately prior to the one in the book Burning Cold. Due to an extreme storm we arrived very late in Vancouver (after noon) and saw many of those waiting to board the Prinsendam for her cruise across the Pacific. They were quite elderly. We were extremely impressed that the Captain and crew safely evacuated everyone. This was the primary reason we have stuck with HAL for so long.

 

I have never sailed on Costa or Carnival. There are other lines on which we won't sail as they don't fall in our category of 'trust'.

 

We are proactive but we still trust the expertise of cruise lines on which we sail far more than the peanut gallery here. I stand by my use of the term 'peanut gallery. It fits.

 

Fair enough, we'll just agree to disagree on peanut gallery term as every thread on CC could have that term applied because none of us are experts on almost everything we post on the forum which includes both my posts and yours ;).

 

As to credit for the Prinsendam, everyone I have talked to actually onboard for that cruise and the book itself gives credit to the Coast Guard, not HAL. The captain in fact made some major mistakes, luckily it did not cost any lives.

Edited December 6, 2013 by KirkNC

[Fouremco]

I must say that I'm gobsmacked. I had no idea there were so many experts in ship design and/or emergency evacuation procedures here. I'll admit that I'm neither. That is why I depend upon the expertise of each cruise line to determine what procedures they will follow in case of an emergency.

 

In the past year or so I've sailed on cruise lines where we've mustered out on deck (HAL and Disney) and where we've mustered in public rooms (Princess and Oceania). In each situation I've had no problem understanding why that line's procedure works for them.

 

I don't understand why anyone would sail on a line where they feel that line needs the expertise of the peanut gallery here to improve their safety procedures. You are trusting them with your life after all. If you don't trust them to already have the optimal procedures - for their ships - why cruise with them?

While the discussion is somewhat free-ranging, as is quite usual on boards of this nature, it's important to keep in mind the OP and her concerns. While I'm sure that the current system works well for HAL and the ship's crew, there are passengers who, for a variety of reasons, find it very difficult because of the length and venue of the drill. Having experienced a longer than normal one on the Noordam on DW's first cruise post-stroke, I now have a very keen understanding of the issues raised by many of the members here.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong in considering possible alternatives and discussing best practices. At least one cruiseline (can't remember which :o) uses card readers to identify who reports for muster, so much faster, efficient and error-free than the current system on HAL.

 

I don't believe that contributors have to be "experts in ship design and/or emergency evacuation procedures" to air their opinions on this thread any more than I believe that you need to be a chef to comment on the quality of the food aboard.

 

I'm sure that you must have contributed in the past to threads for which you had no formal training or significant experience related to the subject matter. That doesn't make your opinions or observations any less valuable.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Fouremco

[AusaicMosaic]

I thought I read recently that HAL does use the card readers now for Muster drill!

Did I misunderstand?

Ian & I will both be bringing our rollators on Jan 5th on Oosterdam and I have advised my sister that she needs to bring her seat walking stick. I had no idea about the staff member being available in the Atrium though. It should be more publiciised.

[cruz chic]

While the discussion is somewhat free-ranging, as is quite usual on boards of this nature, it's important to keep in mind the OP and her concerns. While I'm sure that the current system works well for HAL and the ship's crew, there are passengers who, for a variety of reasons, find it very difficult because of the length and venue of the drill. Having experienced a longer than normal one on the Noordam on DW's first cruise post-stroke, I now have a very keen understanding of the issues raised by many of the members here.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong in considering possible alternatives and discussing best practices. At least one cruiseline (can't remember which :o) uses card readers to identify who reports for muster, so much faster, efficient and error-free than the current system on HAL.

 

I don't believe that contributors have to be "experts in ship design and/or emergency evacuation procedures" to air their opinions on this thread any more than I believe that you need to be a chef to comment on the quality of the food aboard.

 

I'm sure that you must have contributed in the past to threads for which you had no formal training or significant experience related to the subject matter. That doesn't make your opinions or observations any less valuable.

 

Princess uses card readers.

[cruz chic]

I thought I read recently that HAL does use the card readers now for Muster drill!

Did I misunderstand?

Ian & I will both be bringing our rollators on Jan 5th on Oosterdam and I have advised my sister that she needs to bring her seat walking stick. I had no idea about the staff member being available in the Atrium though. It should be more publiciised.

 

I think they were using card readers on the Westerdam for a while. Technology improvements don't seem to be Hal's strong suit.

[Copper10-8]

I think they were using card readers on the Westerdam for a while. Technology improvements don't seem to be Hal's strong suit.

 

They have been (started during her Alaska season)/are using electronic card readers for the passenger emergency drill on WEDM on a trial basis. It'll soon spread to the other fourteen ships

[solocanadian]

They have been (started during her Alaska season)/are using electronic card readers for the passenger emergency drill on WEDM on a trial basis. It'll soon spread to the other fourteen ships

Won't be quick enough for me. Think I'm going to take my rollator so will have no excuse for not attending the drill on the boat deck. However I'd much rather sit on my can in the atrium.:):D:)

[KirkNC]

I think they were using card readers on the Westerdam for a while. Technology improvements don't seem to be Hal's strong suit.

 

Card readers would be a great idea.