Samana a Joke on US????

[luckyprincess]

Ok, so this is a post from a poster on the DR board:

 

OK just had confirmation from someone who has an excursion company in Samana that the government has allowed the cruise lines to have a monopoly on taking people to Cayo Levantado Island. So no cruise passengers can use the public water taxis to get there :(

 

I can say that this disgusts me enough to not get off the ship and not give my money for 10 people to ANY person from Samana. Make a point with your wallets, people. If they will break their own laws to make $$ then I refuse to consider them a decent, law abiding country and refuse to give them any of my money.

[TPKeller]

Ok, so this is a post from a poster on the DR board:

 

OK just had confirmation from someone who has an excursion company in Samana that the government has allowed the cruise lines to have a monopoly on taking people to Cayo Levantado Island. So no cruise passengers can use the public water taxis to get there :(

 

I can say that this disgusts me enough to not get off the ship and not give my money for 10 people to ANY person from Samana. Make a point with your wallets, people. If they will break their own laws to make $$ then I refuse to consider them a decent, law abiding country and refuse to give them any of my money.

You better add all the Mexico port stops to your list as well. Very similar stuff goes on there too. And probably in most of the other Caribbean ports too, we just don't hear about it.

 

Theron

[luckyprincess]

You better add all the Mexico port stops to your list as well. Very similar stuff goes on there too. And probably in most of the other Caribbean ports too, we just don't hear about it.

 

Theron

 

Yeah it's pretty disgusting, immoral and illegal any way you slice it, anywhere you put it :(

[joyful1nh]

I visited Samana in 2007 on Norwegian Spirit. That day we were the only cruise ship in port, and Spirit is a small ship -- under 2000 passengers double occupancy. My family and I took the NCL excursion to Cayo Levantado and paid for the upgraded one to the hotel beach (as opposed to the ship's tender to the public beach). It was well worth the extra money and at that time the beach was beautiful and unspoiled, some of the best shore snorkeling I've done in years. My friends took the whale watch, they are avid whale-watchers, and they said this was one of the best whale watches they had ever been on.

 

There were visibly armed guards at the hotel beach, and we had to wait a significant amount of time in the hot sun with no seats for our tender to return to the ship - and we left early to avoid the crowd.

 

I imagine a lot has changed in Samana since 2007. At that time the big ships weren't coming in - this year when I'm there on Explorer with her 3000+ passengers, Norwegian Jewel (or Gem, can't remember which) is also in port with 2300+ passengers. It is possible that Samana may have been forced to limit the beach access to the cruise ships for capacity reasons. And unfortunately sometimes these newer ports aren't really equipped to handle an influx of 5000+ people in one day.

 

I personally plan to take an excursion with a reputable vendor because this isn't the type of port where I want to risk dealing with some enterprising locals; hopefully I'll have the opportunity to drop off some supplies at a local school, and I'll spend a few dollars there on some locally made artwork or clothing I don't need and may not even want in order to help out the local economy a bit.

 

I had one of my best excursions ever in Belize in 2005 -- a snorkeling tour where the local guides were so eager to tell me all about their country and why I should return -- the point of mentioning Belize is that there are good people everywhere, and I think with a little advance planning and research it is possible to increase your chances of finding the good folks. However, like Belize, Samana is not a port where I'd try to save money by going it on my own.

[addicted2]

The beach at Cayo Levantado is one of our favorites. An absolutely beautiful beach with some decent snorkeling. We want to go back there, just haven't had the opportunity yet.

 

The island that we have liked the least though was just this past week when we stopped at Guadeloupe on the Brilliance. It was not only a very dirty, crowded place , but there is they are a French speaking island with not a lot of English spoken. They also use the Euro and don't accept the US dollar. I was advised by the Loyalty Ambassador on board to not even bother getting off the ship if you didn't speak french. We definately do not want to go there again.

[WetToes]

Yea, ok. That's why you felt a need to single out the poor. Because you weren't being discriminatory or anything. :rolleyes: Keep living in your fantasy land. I know your type.

 

 

You don't know jack, nor do you know "my type". :confused: Whos' living in "fantasy land"? Sure isn't me.

Hope your naivity doesn't bite you ... . ;)

 

I'm done with you now.You are dismissed. ;)

[poncho1973]

Oh good Lord. Doing that anywhere, in any area will put you at risk. Crime is prevalent everywhere. But go on thinking poor people lack any morals. I am sure it helps you sleep better at night.

 

It doesn't make me sleep better, but it is a fact of life. The morality of poor people as a whole isn't in question, nor is the morality of rich people or middle class people or purple people or green people.

 

As another poster commented, generally speaking, the types of crimes tend to relate to the area. Kidnapping for cash ransom isn't the crime of choice in poor neighborhoods. Insider trading isn't the crime of choice in rich neighborhoods. Etc. etc. etc.

 

Petty crime is the crime of choice in many poor areas.

[cruisnseas]

You don't know jack, nor do you know "my type". :confused: Whos' living in "fantasy land"? Sure isn't me.

Hope your naivity doesn't bite you ... . ;)

 

I'm done with you now.You are dismissed. ;)

 

You're the one that assumes poverty automatically causes theft. Did you dismiss me like you dismiss all people less fortunate than you? Pathetic. You are so obvious.

 

It doesn't make me sleep better, but it is a fact of life. The morality of poor people as a whole isn't in question, nor is the morality of rich people or middle class people or purple people or green people.

 

As another poster commented, generally speaking, the types of crimes tend to relate to the area. Kidnapping for cash ransom isn't the crime of choice in poor neighborhoods. Insider trading isn't the crime of choice in rich neighborhoods. Etc. etc. etc.

 

Petty crime is the crime of choice in many poor areas.

 

I never denied that crime isn't specific to certain areas only that specifically calling out poor people as automatic thieves (as Wet Toes did and continues to do) is disgusting, small minded and bigoted. That said, I have had my wallet stolen in one the nicest neighborhoods in Connecticut. It was recovered, thankfully. Some teenagers from the neighborhood did it to a bunch of people over the course of the week. It was their idea of good fun. I have also been in some absolutely horrendous neighborhoods where I could have left cash on the seat next to me and no one would have taken it. It is the individual at cause, not their socio-economic status. Which is why it is ludicrous for Wet Toes to assume that the great people of the DR will steal from her just because they are poor.

[poncho1973]

I never denied that crime isn't specific to certain areas only that specifically calling out poor people as automatic thieves (as Wet Toes did and continues to do) is disgusting, small minded and bigoted. That said, I have had my wallet stolen in one the nicest neighborhoods in Connecticut. It was recovered, thankfully. Some teenagers from the neighborhood did it to a bunch of people over the course of the week. It was their idea of good fun. I have also been in some absolutely horrendous neighborhoods where I could have left cash on the seat next to me and no one would have taken it. It is the individual at cause, not their socio-economic status. Which is why it is ludicrous for Wet Toes to assume that the great people of the DR will steal from her just because they are poor.

 

The facts from the links I provided earlier show that petty crime is pretty high in DR. I gather that you have some sort of personal connection to DR, but facts are facts. Petty crime is high, I am not insulting you or DR by saying that.

 

I don't know about the other poster, but that would never keep me from visiting. It does keep me on my toes for it, but that is all. However, I tend to be on my toes about that anyway.

[Ocean Boy]

Ok, so this is a post from a poster on the DR board:

 

OK just had confirmation from someone who has an excursion company in Samana that the government has allowed the cruise lines to have a monopoly on taking people to Cayo Levantado Island. So no cruise passengers can use the public water taxis to get there :(

 

I can say that this disgusts me enough to not get off the ship and not give my money for 10 people to ANY person from Samana. Make a point with your wallets, people. If they will break their own laws to make $$ then I refuse to consider them a decent, law abiding country and refuse to give them any of my money.

 

Why are you not disguested with the cruise lines for going out and locking up these agreements? They do it with zip line courses, the Sugar Train on St. Kitts, and they do it with many other types of excursions. So in Samana they probably tell the government what they want and if we don't get it we will pull our ship with 4000 passengers, along with their money and credit cards, on it and take it somewhere else. And to make sure that they are not taken up on their threat and told to go ahead and pull their ship out I suspect a few palms get "greased" along the way.

[luckyprincess]

Why are you not disguested with the cruise lines for going out and locking up these agreements? They do it with zip line courses, the Sugar Train on St. Kitts, and they do it with many other types of excursions. So in Samana they probably tell the government what they want and if we don't get it we will pull our ship with 4000 passengers, along with their money and credit cards, on it and take it somewhere else. And to make sure that they are not taken up on their threat and told to go ahead and pull their ship out I suspect a few palms get "greased" along the way.

 

I am disgusted with the cruise line....not sure why you would infer I'm not. :confused: I am pretty amazing in that I'm able to be disgusted with two things at one time and can even still chew gum while doing so! :p

[Big_G]

I am disgusted with the cruise line....not sure why you would infer I'm not. :confused: I am pretty amazing in that I'm able to be disgusted with two things at one time and can even still chew gum while doing so! :p

 

I think you misread OB's comment. He didn't say you weren't. He asked why.

[lilybob]

Happy to hear from those that posted about touring Samana with Terry. I too toured with him in 2010. I didn't want to visit the higher waterfall as I read the trail could be slippery if there was a lot of rain. I tweaked another tour he did which some of you had mentioned. We visited his family's property, a local home, another small village with the cigar making shop, had lunch on the beach and visited another waterfall. We required a minimum of six people and when I posted this on our roll call we ended up with 40! Terry arranged for two open safari type trucks and off we went. It was the highlight of the cruise and we learned a lot about the country. I'm happy to read that he has expanded his business. For a fun and rewarding day, don't sit this one out! You can read many reviews on Trip Advisor also.

 

http://www.toursamanawithterry.com/

[Ocean Boy]

I am disgusted with the cruise line....not sure why you would infer I'm not. :confused: I am pretty amazing in that I'm able to be disgusted with two things at one time and can even still chew gum while doing so! :p

 

Ok, from reading your post it seemed like you felt the issues were more a result of the local government. There is plenty of disgust to be shared with both sides who enter into these arrangements and I suspect that the cruise lines can be quite heavy handed in their negotations. Not getting off of the ship, as you suggested, would seem to me to cause more hardship to the locals of the country than it does for RCI as you stay aboard ship and spend your money there.

 

If you do feel that their is culpability on the part of the cruise lines then it would seem that if your solution to the local rackateering is to not get off the ship then your solution to the cruise lines' heavy handedness would be not to cruise.

[luckyprincess]

I think you misread OB's comment. He didn't say you weren't. He asked why.

 

 

I didn't misread it. He asked why I wasn't which means he assumed I wasn't or else he wouldn't have asked... :D

[luckyprincess]

Ok, from reading your post it seemed like you felt the issues were more a result of the local government. There is plenty of disgust to be shared with both sides who enter into these arrangements and I suspect that the cruise lines can be quite heavy handed in their negotations. Not getting off of the ship, as you suggested, would seem to me to cause more hardship to the locals of the country than it does for RCI as you stay aboard ship and spend your money there.

 

If you do feel that their is culpability on the part of the cruise lines then it would seem that if your solution to the local rackateering is to not get off the ship then your solution to the cruise lines' heavy handedness would be not to cruise.

 

Unfortunately this is a family cruise that is already purchased with the intent of our family sailing together. I do feel they both have culpability. I actually am not a cruising fanatic and after my last cruise we didn't really plan on cruising again any year soon since we realize it's a vacation that for us is very weather influenced (can't control the weather :P ) and this helps to solidify that choice. I'll have an awesome cruise for sure but I don't think I will contribute to Samana's economy because I don't think they deserve my dollars due to questionable practices. Someone else is paying for this cruise but I'll for sure check out the business practices of a cruise line if I do cruise again.

[Ocean Boy]

Unfortunately this is a family cruise that is already purchased with the intent of our family sailing together. I do feel they both have culpability. I actually am not a cruising fanatic and after my last cruise we didn't really plan on cruising again any year soon since we realize it's a vacation that for us is very weather influenced (can't control the weather :P ) and this helps to solidify that choice. I'll have an awesome cruise for sure but I don't think I will contribute to Samana's economy because I don't think they deserve my dollars due to questionable practices. Someone else is paying for this cruise but I'll for sure check out the business practices of a cruise line if I do cruise again.

 

Now I understand your position better. Thanks for explaining. Your reasoning certainly makes sense.

[cruisnseas]

The facts from the links I provided earlier show that petty crime is pretty high in DR. I gather that you have some sort of personal connection to DR, but facts are facts. Petty crime is high, I am not insulting you or DR by saying that.

 

I don't know about the other poster, but that would never keep me from visiting. It does keep me on my toes for it, but that is all. However, I tend to be on my toes about that anyway.

 

A personal connection to DR? No. I've been there once on vacation. This isn't specifically about the DR it is about the assumption made all too often here (and everywhere) that poor people are moral-less and we should all be terrified of them since, naturally, they will rob us all blind when given the chance.

[luckyprincess]

A personal connection to DR? No. I've been there once on vacation. This isn't specifically about the DR it is about the assumption made all too often here (and everywhere) that poor people are moral-less and we should all be terrified of them since, naturally, they will rob us all blind when given the chance.

 

I grew up very poor so I don't think I'm being discriminatory of myself here but are you saying you don't believe the very well known statistics that petty crime is performed the majority of the time by people in desperate financial situations? I mean, you do realize that muggers are almost always in the lower middle class/poverty level right? That and other theft offenses are much more often committed by those on the working poor/poverty level than any other. By repeating that fact I hope you don't automatically assume that all poor people mug people....:confused:

[poncho1973]

A personal connection to DR? No. I've been there once on vacation. This isn't specifically about the DR it is about the assumption made all too often here (and everywhere) that poor people are moral-less and we should all be terrified of them since, naturally, they will rob us all blind when given the chance.

 

This is basically a straw man discussion at this point.

 

You ignore the facts that petty crime occurs with high frequency in poorer areas and repeatedly say something like "poor people have morals" while completely ignoring anything else.

 

You are either the only person here that doesn't grasp the concept or you are so focused on repeating your manta that you don't see that no one is calling all poor people, just because they are poor, heathens without a concept of morals.

 

This is about crime rates, specifically petty crime. This is NOT about the level of morality in poor communities.

[wassup4565]

Poncho, new voice here. I don`t have access to proven petty crime stats by country (do you?). Say US petty crime stats vs Dominican petty crime stats - you got any reliable stats on those comparisons?

 

What I can tell you is I am not a Dominican, I`m white, I`m a woman, and I`ve traveled around most areas of the island. Never came to any harm. A few taxi drivers and vendors tried to overcharge me, but I mostly got fair prices. Never saw any Dominicans with guns, or heard of any who used guns. I don`t think they have very many guns in that country.

 

Can you say the same in America?

[Mark_K]

Poncho, new voice here. I don`t have access to proven petty crime stats by country (do you?). Say US petty crime stats vs Dominican petty crime stats - you got any reliable stats on those comparisons?

 

What I can tell you is I am not a Dominican, I`m white, I`m a woman, and I`ve traveled around most areas of the island. Never came to any harm. A few taxi drivers and vendors tried to overcharge me, but I mostly got fair prices. Never saw any Dominicans with guns, or heard of any who used guns. I don`t think they have very many guns in that country.

 

Can you say the same in America?

In Punta Cana at an AI resort, I noticed that the guards carried shotguns. In Santo Domingo at a hotel, sitting by the pool, I saw two men talking off to the side and noticed that one of them had a pistol in the waistband of his pants. Maybe you didn't see any guns because you just didn't notice them, not because they weren't there.

[poncho1973]

Poncho, new voice here. I don`t have access to proven petty crime stats by country (do you?). Say US petty crime stats vs Dominican petty crime stats - you got any reliable stats on those comparisons?

 

What I can tell you is I am not a Dominican, I`m white, I`m a woman, and I`ve traveled around most areas of the island. Never came to any harm. A few taxi drivers and vendors tried to overcharge me, but I mostly got fair prices. Never saw any Dominicans with guns, or heard of any who used guns. I don`t think they have very many guns in that country.

 

Can you say the same in America?

 

Just to be clear... I wasn't (and if my reading comprehension was on track, no one else was either) saying that the US was some magic super safe place. That is crazy.

 

REFERENCE:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=36833316&postcount=110

 

The ownership or non-ownership of guns doesn't have much effect on petty crime. Most petty crimes are crimes of opportunity like purse snatching, pickpocketing, cheating people at gas pumps, short-changing people at stores, overcharging for taxis, ruses, rigged street games, etc. The overwhelming majority of those do not require a gun. Sure, some muggings may involve them, but a lot of muggings simply involve threats of physical violence, blunt objects, or even knives.

 

Even though the other poster pointed out that there are, in fact, guns in DR... that has nothing to do with my comments. That is another discussion.

 

Here is the post in this thread where I provided the stat links:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=36830976&postcount=101

 

As far as your comment about never coming to harm... I've been to New Orleans a dozen times without any excitement. My friend went to New Orleans for the first time in his life. Less than 30 minutes after checking into his hotel, he was mugged and got a nice cut over his eye that required stitches.

 

Correlation does not equal causation. Just because you have never been bothered in DR, does not mean that people do not ever get bothered there.

 

That said, I did also say this earlier in this thread and it shouldn't be dismissed simply because I believe that petty crime happens in many poorer areas (including DR):

 

Don't be. Be reasonable and aware just like you would be in parts of your area at home that you are unfamiliar with.

 

The world is a beautiful place, even in poorer parts. Keep reading up on things. The more educated you are with the ports of call, the better choices you will make to have fun.

[mommabean]

Poncho, new voice here. I don`t have access to proven petty crime stats by country (do you?). Say US petty crime stats vs Dominican petty crime stats - you got any reliable stats on those comparisons?

 

What I can tell you is I am not a Dominican, I`m white, I`m a woman, and I`ve traveled around most areas of the island. Never came to any harm. A few taxi drivers and vendors tried to overcharge me, but I mostly got fair prices. Never saw any Dominicans with guns, or heard of any who used guns. I don`t think they have very many guns in that country.

 

Can you say the same in America?

 

For the record, our friend moved to the DR for the beaches and lifestyle. He ran a beach bar at one point. He also didn't own much but did have a computer and a motor scooter.

 

After years of enjoying life there he ended up murdered. The young couple put poison in his drink, smashed him in the face with a machete, and threw him over a bridge into a river where his decomposing body was found a few days later. Who needs a gun? The couple was found in possession of our friends "valuables". Our friend's family in the states had to pay to keep the people in jail if they wanted them to be tried. If they didn't keep dishing out the money, the people would get away with murder.

 

We never found out the final outcome of this sickening crime.

 

And I resisted saying anything until I read this gun garbage which is so irrelevant to crime.

 

I have no desire to go to the DR although I know I'm as safe there as anywhere. It's the thought. :( I take NO valuables in any port. There is no reason to tempt anyone who wants what you have.

[pearle1]

I don't mean to take this thread and make it about myself, but I posted a thread and it got moved to the "caribbean" section ~ which I understand because it is a question about a beach there, but problem is I dont think as many people look there

 

Anyways, I am getting uneasy with the fact that I am planning a beach day with my mom at LaPlayita next week ~ and sharing the cost of a cab ride with another couple.

 

Is this beach safe for the two of us??

 

any advice/opinions much appreciated ! Thanks