Why no American Captains?

[smeyer418]

Ok .... I understand what you folks are saying.

 

But, for the few here that think these cruise ship captains may not be paid as much as US standards ... read this:

 

http://www.crew-center.com/22-higher-salaries-cruise-ship-captains

 

 

maybe all the Navy guys become harbor pilots. The NY ones make $200,000 or more and are home every night.

 

The Cruise lines pay in US dollars and the value of the Euro has gone up. One captain in fact said his salary had gone down because of this problem...

 

Airline pilots used to make more than they do now and the ones coming up now tend NOT to be US AF pilots.

[Sargent_Schultz]

maybe all the Navy guys become harbor pilots. The NY ones make $200,000 or more and are home every night.

 

The Cruise lines pay in US dollars and the value of the Euro has gone up. One captain in fact said his salary had gone down because of this problem...

 

Airline pilots used to make more than they do now and the ones coming up now tend NOT to be US AF pilots.

 

If anything like shore and river pilots in the US, the positions depend more on nepotism than qualifications.

[Raven Days]

I think someone else hit it on the head. We Americans want money. More Money and even more money. And then we want benefits on top of benefits. The cruise companies will not pay what most qualified American ship captains would ask for. And yes any Naval captain could most diffidently captain a passenger cruise ship. They captain larger vessels carrying our military every day. It isn't the experience of a Naval Captain, its how much the Captain would ask for in compensation, that probably precludes any being hired.

[DirtyDawg]

Does anyone really care where their Cruise Captain is from?

 

As long as he or she knows port from starboard, bow from stern, forward from reverse, and where the rocks are I couldn't care less if they are American or were from Mars.:D

 

And yes I know that there are no Marine Universities on Mars!;), Not yet anyway.

Edited February 17, 2013 by DirtyDawg

[Sparky2]

Captains don't serve 6-8 month contracts. I think its 6-8 weeks on and then 6-8 weeks off.

 

Is this true? Seems like they'd be on longer at a time.

[smeyer418]

Is this true? Seems like they'd be on longer at a time.

 

Typically, cruise ship Captains work for two months at a time and then enjoy one month off. Some Captains’ families live aboard with them during these work periods, while others do not.

 

from a job posting....

 

http://hotelmule.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1902

[swedish weave]

They don't really want us to understand what the captain is reporting from the bridge.:)

 

 

That must be why the Princess crew all wear "CRUISE" pins on their uniforms.

 

It is short for Can't Really Understand Italian --Speak English.

[swedish weave]

Is this true? Seems like they'd be on longer at a time.

 

NCL Captains work 10 weeks on and 10 weeks off. Two guys rotate on the same ship

Edited February 17, 2013 by swedish weave

[BruceMuzz]

Now that everyone has finished guessing about ship captains, I can give you some real information.

 

Most major cruise lines have unions representing Deck, Engine, and Hotel.

The primary unions representing Deck Officers (including Captains) are European.

Very few Americans belong to European Maritime Unions, so are not able to be hired.

 

Most major cruise lines have their Captains working 3 months on and 3 months off. The 3 months off are usually not paid. American Captains like to claim unemployment insurance during those 3 months, creating a huge insurance expense for the cruise line.

 

Cruise lines hire their crews from Recruiting Agencies in many different countries; the USA has nearly no crewing agencies of any kind.

 

American Maritime Union rates for Deck Officers (including Captains) are nearly double the rates for European Deck Officers. The cruise lines cannot afford the Americans.

 

Nearly all Cruise Ship Captains speak several languages - including the language of the flag or country of their ships.

American Captains all speak two languages:

1. English (or at least an American version of English).

2. English louder.

 

American cruise ship crew rarely get along very well with crew from other countries. They usually have the attitude that the American way is the right way, and all other ways are wrong.

 

The US Navy has many Captains who are familiar with nuclear ships and warships.

Cruise ships are neither nuclear nor warships. They operate and handle much differently.

 

On a cruise ship, the Captain is expected and responsible to socialize comfortably with passengers from many different nations. The few American Captains we see are not very adept nor comfortable doing this.

 

The International Maritime Organisation mandates many of the regulations and operations on international vessels. For reasons that nobody seems able to explain, the few remaining American ships frequently have operations that are directly opposite from the rest of the world. A good example; on international ships, all even numbered boats, rafts, cabins, lockers, etc are on the port side. On American ships they are on starboard side.

Another example: on international ships, the alarm codes for emergency alerts and crew to lifeboat stations are exactly opposite the ones on US Ships.

 

Most countries have a nautical history, with a tradition of merchant mariners moving up through the ranks of merchant vessels to finally arrive as captains on cruise ships.

The USA lost that history and tradition long ago.

[DirtyDawg]

Now that everyone has finished guessing about ship captains, I can give you some real information.

 

REAL INFORMATION?????

 

That's the last thing people on this board want!;)

[seannyice81]

I couldn't care less where the captain is from, so long as (s)he has a good record and they get me in and out of port safely.

Edited February 17, 2013 by seannyice81

[rocker57]

Now that everyone has finished guessing about ship captains, I can give you some real information.

 

Most major cruise lines have unions representing Deck, Engine, and Hotel.

The primary unions representing Deck Officers (including Captains) are European.

Very few Americans belong to European Maritime Unions, so are not able to be hired.

 

Most major cruise lines have their Captains working 3 months on and 3 months off. The 3 months off are usually not paid. American Captains like to claim unemployment insurance during those 3 months, creating a huge insurance expense for the cruise line.

 

Cruise lines hire their crews from Recruiting Agencies in many different countries; the USA has nearly no crewing agencies of any kind.

 

American Maritime Union rates for Deck Officers (including Captains) are nearly double the rates for European Deck Officers. The cruise lines cannot afford the Americans.

 

Nearly all Cruise Ship Captains speak several languages - including the language of the flag or country of their ships.

American Captains all speak two languages:

1. English (or at least an American version of English).

2. English louder.

 

American cruise ship crew rarely get along very well with crew from other countries. They usually have the attitude that the American way is the right way, and all other ways are wrong.

 

The US Navy has many Captains who are familiar with nuclear ships and warships.

Cruise ships are neither nuclear nor warships. They operate and handle much differently.

 

On a cruise ship, the Captain is expected and responsible to socialize comfortably with passengers from many different nations. The few American Captains we see are not very adept nor comfortable doing this.

 

The International Maritime Organisation mandates many of the regulations and operations on international vessels. For reasons that nobody seems able to explain, the few remaining American ships frequently have operations that are directly opposite from the rest of the world. A good example; on international ships, all even numbered boats, rafts, cabins, lockers, etc are on the port side. On American ships they are on starboard side.

Another example: on international ships, the alarm codes for emergency alerts and crew to lifeboat stations are exactly opposite the ones on US Ships.

 

Most countries have a nautical history, with a tradition of merchant mariners moving up through the ranks of merchant vessels to finally arrive as captains on cruise ships.

The USA lost that history and tradition long ago.

 

Excellent post & response!

[Anton]

Some clarification about the Captains of aircraft carriers....they are aviators first and ship commanders second in the big scheme of their naval careers. It may have changed since I was a nuclear power sailor on USS Nimitz in the 80s, but I doubt it has been a significant change. Now, at the time when an officer was selected for command they would spend time (not a lot either) on surface ships just to punch their tickets. First they'd go to a small ship like a destroyer as executive officer for maybe a year, then become commanding officer for a year. They would then have a shore assignment (maintaining flight quals), That would be a year or so. They would then go to nuclear power school because all command-level officers of nuclear powered ships have to be nuke engineering officer qualified. That was another year to 18 months. Then report to a deep-draft ship like an oiler or ammunition ship as Captain. This gave them experience with a larger vessel. They would then become executive officer of a carrier - another one to two year assignment. Followed by shore duty again, and finally they would get a carrier of their own to command - for two years, and then they would either make admiral or have to retire. Up or out. It isn't like these guys spend 20 years at the helm of a carrier.

 

So in total, an aircraft carrier Captain has about 6-8 years of actual shiphandling experience. Not very much.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Anton

[nybumpkin]

There was an American captain on the NCL Pride of America out of Hawaii. His first name was Buzz. Of course, that is a US flagged ship.

POA is the only major cruise ship flagged in the US.

 

http://www.usmma.edu/about/History.shtml

 

one of the five military academies...

 

the four others are Army, Navy, CG and Air force.

Just a slight correction - USMMA is not a "military" academy, but instead is a "service" academy. My oldest son is a senior at USMMA; while some of the graduates will enter military service (the astronaut Mark Kelly is an alumnus), most will go into commercial shipping as either a deck or engine officer. And while some graduates do sail on cruise ships (I believe the POA captain referenced above is a USMMA grad, and there are a few others), most will sail cargo ships. In part that's due to the requirement that after graduating, USMMA grads are commissioned as ensigns in the Navy Reserve and are required to sail on their USCG license for five years aboard US-flagged ships, but I can't think of any of my son's classmates who have even thought of a cruise ship career. As for my son, he will be sitting for his USCG license as a 3rd Assistant Engineer in June and then will go to work for Military Sealift Command, which is made up of civilian-operated ships that move the military around the world and replenish Navy ships at sea. (Hopefully, though, he will get to sail with us on Legend in July before starting work!)

[Holders3]

The Love Boat really left us all confused. Julie, Gopher, Capt Stubing.........say it ain't so. You weren't real?

[DirtyDawg]

The Love Boat really left us all confused. Julie, Gopher, Capt Stubing.........say it ain't so. You weren't real?

 

Brilliant!!

[MommaBear55]

If anything like shore and river pilots in the US, the positions depend more on nepotism than qualifications.

 

Harbor pilots are the most specialized captains in American maritime hierarchy and are paid accordingly. There are often generations of families who do this but it has more to do with knowledge of local waters than actual nepotism.

 

Ship captains come through Maritime academies and the Merchant Marine rather than the Navy as the requirements training and ships are very different.

[MommaBear55]

 

Why aren't cruise ships built in America?

 

Because we charge too much. My husband us a shipbuilder and their last commercial contract was in the 1970s. The OSHA and union rules, wages and benefits price the US right out of the market.

[negc]

Now that everyone has finished guessing about ship captains, I can give you some real information. Really???

 

 

Most major cruise lines have their Captains working 3 months on and 3 months off. The 3 months off are usually not paid. American Captains like to claim unemployment insurance during those 3 months, creating a huge insurance expense for the cruise line. on at least a number of major lines the usual rotation is 10 weeks on and 10 weeks off

 

 

American Maritime Union rates for Deck Officers (including Captains) are nearly double the rates for European Deck Officers. The cruise lines cannot afford the Americans.Last time I checked, Carnival was making substantial profits so it is more likely they prefer not to pay the rates than that they can't afford it.

 

Nearly all Cruise Ship Captains speak several languages - including the language of the flag or country of their ships.

American Captains all speak two languages:

1. English (or at least an American version of English).

2. English louder.

You need to sail with Captain Bill Wright (American though born in Europe) or James MacDonald(Canada- New Brunswick; US (Florida) and you might change your clearly biased "facts"

 

American cruise ship crew rarely get along very well with crew from other countries. They usually have the attitude that the American way is the right way, and all other ways are wrong.

 

On a cruise ship, the Captain is expected and responsible to socialize comfortably with passengers from many different nations. The few American Captains we see are not very adept nor comfortable doing this.Again, it is clear you have never sailed with Captains Wright or MacDonald

 

 

Most countries have a nautical history, with a tradition of merchant mariners moving up through the ranks of merchant vessels to finally arrive as captains on cruise ships.

The USA lost that history and tradition long ago.

 

The last comment may be the only one with which I might agree, but the main tenor of your post seems to be biased against Americans (both sailors and civilians).

Most veteran cruisers can relate incidents of sailing with Captains of various nationalities, not just Italian but Greek, Portuguese, British, Irish, American, Norwegian and Swedish among others.

Edited February 17, 2013 by negc

[irishnyc]

You're comparing commercial airlines and cruise ships - it's like comparing apples and persimmons. Not even close.

[nybumpkin]

Ship captains come through Maritime academies and the Merchant Marine rather than the Navy as the requirements training and ships are very different.

Last summer my son and another USMMA student did an internship aboard USS Wasp, along with Annapolis midshipmen. USMMA students get much more hands-on sailing experience than Annapolis students, being required to sail 300+ days during their four years at the school, and our son already had served in engine rooms on several ships - he literally has sailed around the world. Aboard Wasp, the Chief Engineer singled out son and his sea partner, gave them an assignment, and told them to show the Annapolis mids "how it's done.":D

[MrPete]

I was reading that almost all cruise ship Captains are Italian, however, the major cruise lines are not Italian companies.

 

Take Carnival Cruise Lines for instance ... It's an American / British company with an American CEO ... however, none of the Captains or his 1st officers are American.

 

Seems strange that these cruise lines don't hire Americans ... The US has the largest Navy in the world. Certainly there is alot of talent getting out of the US Navy that have experiance operating large ships like aircraft carriers and such.

 

Lots of Americans flying large commercial airplanes ... but not commanding cruise ships.

 

So, anyone know why there are no American cruise ship Captains?

 

Do they get paid so little by these cruise lines that no American that has experiance commanding aircraft carriers, large cargo ships, etc would ever want the job?

 

Confused ....

 

Maybe because there's only one American flagged cruiseship? And American's don't wear white after Labor Day?

[Turbo6ta]

 

You're comparing commercial airlines and cruise ships - it's like comparing apples and persimmons. Not even close.

 

I guess your right ... And I don't know a thing about cruise lines or there crew.

 

To my uneducated eye, I just thought that if ex-military pilots can transition from F-16s over to commercial 737s, why can't ex-Navy 1st officers go from a Destroyer to Cruise Ships?

 

All I was really asking .. is where are all the experienced American ship captains? Certainly not on the cruise ships I guess.

 

Didn't mean to start a flame war or anything like it .. Just a simple question, and now I know.

[hbrote]

Here's another Maritime Academy http://www.maritime.edu/.

They have their own freighter and turn out officers. The "Jone Act" put the USA out of the cruise business with their requirements for a US Flagged ship.

[misguidedangel]

Captains serve four months as captain on a ship and get four months off. As far as where the ships captains come from they are typically Italian, Norwegian, Italian, Greek, or British. There are some American and Canadian ship captains. It was only a few years ago that the first woman was given the helm of a ship, and I do believe it was a Princess ship, since them there could have been one or two more who are now in command of cruise ships.

Edited February 17, 2013 by misguidedangel