Poor management of the triplets

[wripro]

There are many upcoming cruises on the triplets where you cannot get a suite for anything near $300 pp per night.

[sananda]

Interestingly enough the prices for 2014 summer cruises are a fair bit more compared with 2013 on the big and the small Seabourn ships.

 

I think they are counting on steady demand and a reduced capacity due to the April 2014 handover of the Pride. This is a step in the right direction and hopefully Seabourn will be able to establish rates that are similar to the other luxury lines.

[Emperor Norton]

I think they are counting on steady demand and a reduced capacity due to the April 2014 handover of the Pride. This is a step in the right direction and hopefully Seabourn will be able to establish rates that are similar to the other luxury lines.

 

Which luxury lines were you comparing Seabourn to for these price discrepancies?

[sananda]

Which luxury lines were you comparing Seabourn to for these price discrepancies?

 

Silver Sea and Crystal for example. I didn't include Regent because they include more in their fares.

[Mr Luxury]

Silver Sea and Crystal for example. I didn't include Regent because they include more in their fares.

 

There are cheap fares on Silversea and Crystal also.

Crystal sometimes sails half full,so does Silversea,hence both lines adopting the short cruise tactic of splitting a ten or twelve night trip into two cruises.

More work for the crew and not a good experience for the guest as the consistency diminishes.

All lines are discounting heavily to fill ships at the moment.

It will be interesting to see how long Seabourn keep the 2014 prices for without having to discount.

I for one welcome higher prices in the luxury sector as it can only be good to maintain the high standards that we are used to.

[wripro]

I just got an email from Crystal this morning advertising Med cruises for $2200. Plus they've taken to dividing up their 12 day cruises into 7 day and 5 day segments which Silversea is also doing. Don't tell me they're not trying to fill berths just as much as SB.

[sananda]

It will be interesting to see how long Seabourn keep the 2014 prices for without having to discount.

I for one welcome higher prices in the luxury sector as it can only be good to maintain the high standards that we are used to.

 

I agree, but would amend to raise prices and raise standards.

[Ravenscroft]

I agree, but would amend to raise prices and raise standards.

 

I agree. I have no issue at all with price increases, but quality has to improve alongside those increases. No point simply putting up fares to keep out the riff raff.

Unfortunately, for the foreseeable future at least, I don't envisage any of the luxury cruise lines raising standards in line with price increases.

[Emperor Norton]

This has been an interesting thread that got a lot of bites. Though for future reference, the vessel you're referring to is trawler;)

[andyn2013]

Lets place the reason for the sale of the triplets to Windstar where it belongs poor management .

When a business fails to make money , management must accept the responsibility .

After the introduction of the three larger ships , with newer and better on-board facilities , most existing passengers were prepared to pay higher prices to sail on these ships compared to the triplets. New Seabourn passengers selected the older triplets mainly because of the lower prices .

Management tried to keep the prices on the triplets high , but had to reduce prices significantly at the end to fill the ships , thus creating the 90 day club , which we are members. Just wait until

the last 90 days before embarkation date before booking for reduced prices. Every Seabourn cruise we have been passengers on has always cost less than $300 per day/person for Category A , A1 and A2 . We have cruised the Baltic , Mediterranean , Adriatic and Aegean on the triplets in May, July, August , September and October for over 100 days in the last 3 years. All the cruises were just wonderful , and the staff first class . As for the older ships , well for us this was not an issue , the cabins were still large , food great and fascinating ports . Management fail to accept that there were two Seabourn passenger groups with different priorities . They needed to separate the ships into two distinct groups . Lets hope Windstar will understand this and price and market accordingly . We hope Windstar keeps the triplets for the older and less active passengers . The new Seabourn ship will most-likely be 600 to 750 passengers , the current management seem only focused on larger ships and higher prices . Will we cruise on Seabourn or join Windstar in the future , that will depend on Windstar . The future Seabourn with the 3 larger ships and the new addition , will most likely fail if the management remains the same .

 

Long time reader, first time poster. The two groups you describe exist on many cruise lines (perhaps all of them?).

The full price bookers who want a particular cruise or to be assured of the 'perfect' cabin, location, excursion, etc.

And the 'bargain' shoppers who are happy with whatever as long as they feel they're getting good value or as in my case, can't stand to know there are people paying so much less than I am for exactly the same thing.

 

I was in the first group for many years. But no longer. After final payment day has become my middle name. :)

[Kilroyshere]

The sale of the triplets was inevitable. By cruising standards, they were 2 to 3 generations out of date. They did not comport with environmental regs for some ports and were more expensive per passenger to operate. Alleged “poor management” mentioned herein this thread IMO has nothing to do with the sale.

 

Each of the triplets use nearly as much fuel as the Odyssey class and fuel is the biggest single expense. The triplets limited balconies are not up to other cruise line standards and customer expectations. The economy of size is just something we cruisers will deal with…or charter your own 200’ foot yacht!

 

When the triplets were built, the biggest cruise ships at sea were about 2,000 passengers. The triplets @ 208 passengers then, were about 10% the size of the industry giants. Today, the biggest cruise ships at sea are pushing 4,000 to 6,000 passengers and the Odyssey class carry 450…so Seabourn’s ratio to the industry is still within the parameters of the original triplets.

 

Note: Odyssey class ships are nearly the same size (length) as Regents fleet with several hundred passenger fewer on Seabourn than Regent.

 

In our opinion, the Seabourn Odyssey class ship is still the luxury standard for the cruise industry.

 

We found the triplets the most enjoyable cruises we’ve had and that includes last December on the Legend where the service, food and value was superb. We will sorely miss the triplets which are being phased out in ’14 and ’15. We like the Odyssey class triplets very much, but there is in our opinion a difference.

 

According to the travel agency claiming to be recognized by Seabourn as their largest booker of cruises, the replacement ship will be a forth Odyssey Class in that series of designs.

 

Regarding dropping prices in the last 90 days prior to sailing, there’s an old adage in the hotel/hospitality biz that goes: “An unsold room is revenue lost forever.”

 

We’ve booked last minute cruises on Seabourn and some very deeply discounted cruises on Regent. Most cruise lines want to fill a room at some price cuz the ship costs the same to operate with our without that cabin filled. And that, is just good business

[rols]

Each of the triplets use nearly as much fuel as the Odyssey class and fuel is the biggest single expense. The triplets limited balconies are not up to other cruise line standards and customer expectations. The economy of size is just something we cruisers will deal with…or charter your own 200’ foot yacht!

 

I wondered about this enough to add it up. Ships the size of the little sisters use somewhere between 100 and 200 tons of fuel a day. 200 tons of fuel is about 1200 barrels or $120,000 of fuel a day. 200 people on board that's 600 bucks of fuel a day per person. That is truly shocking.

 

If the bigger ships burn about the same per day, they have twice the people, that's 300 bucks per person leaving another 300 bucks for wine and the guy who pours it.

 

On our next cruise I'm going to try very hard to find out if my numbers are even vaguely right.

[Emperor Norton]

I wondered about this enough to add it up. Ships the size of the little sisters use somewhere between 100 and 200 tons of fuel a day. 200 tons of fuel is about 1200 barrels or $120,000 of fuel a day. 200 people on board that's 600 bucks of fuel a day per person. That is truly shocking.

 

If the bigger ships burn about the same per day, they have twice the people, that's 300 bucks per person leaving another 300 bucks for wine and the guy who pours it.

 

On our next cruise I'm going to try very hard to find out if my numbers are even vaguely right.

 

Please do. It's hard to trust the accuracy of the SWAGs.

[Kilroyshere]

Please do. It's hard to trust the accuracy of the SWAGs.

 

 

"SWAGS..."

 

 

The fuel usage of the triplets being comparable to an Odyssey class vessel was a claim told to me personally by one of the Seabourn little sister Captains.

 

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[rols]

"SWAGS..."

 

 

The fuel usage of the triplets being comparable to an Odyssey class vessel was a claim told to me personally by one of the Seabourn little sister Captains.

 

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And i believe I agreed with you, I certainly meant to agree with you. My gut reaction was no but I did the numbers and fuel is a much bigger part of the cruise cost than my gut gave it credit for. I'm definitely asking this question on the next cruise.

[Mapu]

I wondered about this enough to add it up. Ships the size of the little sisters use somewhere between 100 and 200 tons of fuel a day. 200 tons of fuel is about 1200 barrels or $120,000 of fuel a day. 200 people on board that's 600 bucks of fuel a day per person. That is truly shocking.

 

If the bigger ships burn about the same per day, they have twice the people, that's 300 bucks per person leaving another 300 bucks for wine and the guy who pours it.

 

On our next cruise I'm going to try very hard to find out if my numbers are even vaguely right.

 

I think fuel usage is dependent on itinerary. A 7 day Caribbean cruise, for instance, where distance between ports is short would not be the same as a transatlantic cruise or an itinerary that included ports that are not close to each other.

[Emperor Norton]

So do we have a race to see who will be the first to post hard numbers on fuel consumption between the babies and the biggies?

[Kilroyshere]

I wondered about this enough to add it up. Ships the size of the little sisters use somewhere between 100 and 200 tons of fuel a day. 200 tons of fuel is about 1200 barrels or $120,000 of fuel a day. 200 people on board that's 600 bucks of fuel a day per person. That is truly shocking.

 

If the bigger ships burn about the same per day, they have twice the people, that's 300 bucks per person leaving another 300 bucks for wine and the guy who pours it.

 

So do we have a race to see who will be the first to post hard numbers on fuel consumption between the babies and the biggies?

 

Great question and challenge!

 

All really big machines fascinate me and ships fall right into this intrigue.

 

Back in the 90’s, Seabourn allowed passenger tours of the engine and mechanical rooms below. I recall being shown the ‘back of the house’ mechanical view.

 

From the net, I’ve found:

 

Both classes of ships have primary diesel motors (as opposed to heavier bunker fuel used by larger vessels) for propulsion and other power.

 

Odyssey* run 4 primary 12 cylinder diesel motors generating electricity with variable speed drive in between (read more efficient). Odyssey vessels have 2 identical but separate/independent engine rooms…redundancy I assume?

 

The little sisters* each have 4 primary diesel motors (two 12 cylinder and two 8 cylinder) on direct drives and are in one engine room.

 

The total KW capable output for Odyssey class motors are rated just over 300% the little sister’s total capable output.*

 

Greater KW output on Odyssey does not necessarily correlate to greater fuel consumption. Many more factors come into play…such as ship/hull/mechanical design efficiencies, direct drive v. variable speed, ship/motor age differences account for far different systems e.g; waste disposal, water production, pneumatic operations, cooling/heating, insulation, heat recapture and more efficient electrical designs (more LED’s, more CPU’s controlling power usage, etc).

 

I suspect Odyssey class vessels are far more efficient squeezing more energy out of the same unit of fuel for the same distance covered and daily operations.

 

Without published fuel usage data, extrapolating fuel usage is difficult cuz we don’t know how many of the 4 motors on the little sisters v. Odyssey vessels are used on a voyage of same itinerary nor at what capacity or at what consumption per motor hour?

 

IMO, $600 a day per passenger sounds far too high a figure. My search for fuel consumption/capacity have thus far eluded me. But this is an interesting question in light of the thread topic regarding alleged "bad management."

 

*Odyssey: 23,400 KW…Legend: 7,280 KW

 

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[mariner]

I'm told, by a captain, about 40 metric tons on sea days.

[Kilroyshere]

I'm told, by a captain, about 40 metric tons on sea days.

 

Well, that's a good start to this mystery.

 

Would that 40 metric tons be on one of the little sisters or, Odyssey class vessels?

 

I've found on-line an alleged ratio of 302.1 gallons diesel to a metric ton.

 

Assuming that's correct; 40 metric tons = 12,084 gallons of diesel a day. I've no idea what SB might pay for bulk purchases...but let's say $3.25 a gallon.

 

That means the 40 metric tons a day of diesel costs $39,273.

 

$39,273.00 @ 450 passengers (Odyssey) = $87.27 a day

$39,273.00 @ 208 passengers (Legend) = $188.81 a day

 

Both figures above sound possible.

 

If the 40 metric tons a day is correct, what remains to be found out is which class vessel is that for and what does the other class vessels consume per day at sea?

 

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[mariner]

That's for Sojourn class. Adjust figure based on gross tonnage.

[joysav]

I was in the first group for many years. But no longer. After final payment day has become my middle name. :)

 

Hi

 

When is final payment day for Seabourn ???

[joysav]

Great question and challenge!

 

Odyssey* run 4 primary 12 cylinder diesel motors generating electricity with variable speed drive in between (read more efficient). Odyssey vessels have 2 identical but separate/independent engine rooms…redundancy I assume?

 

The little sisters* each have 4 primary diesel motors (two 12 cylinder and two 8 cylinder) on direct drives and are in one engine room.

 

A very good reason to use the big girls.

 

 

I would not be surprised if the new one ( The Quads ) has Azipods . Maybe even Gas Turbines

 

The Arctic and Antarctic are becoming more popular and last year "MS The World" went via The Northwest Passage.

.

[Seacap]

u really need to know the density of your specific lot of fuel (and temperature at which it is measured or referred to).

 

If I assume 0.95 kg/L as typical, then a metric ton is 1000 kg,

1000 kg x 1 L/0.95 kg = 1053 L

1053 L x 1 US gallon/3.7854 L = 278 gallons.

 

Substitute your density for the first line and follow proforma.

 

Hope this is help in determining metric tons to U.S gallons

[mariner]

I hope they don't go the azipods route. Too many problems with azipods.