S Class for Sale

[Mekka]

I've seen several references to the S Class ships being up for sale. Is this just a rumor, or is there some tangible basis for this? The Seabourn sale of half its fleet sure sounds like a wake up call, especially since they are now under HAL management.

 

I hope it doesn't happen. Those are our favorite ships.

 

HAL is obviously moving to larger ships with each new build. I had hoped that the smaller ships would be retired gradually as the new ones come on line. The prospect of dramatically reconfiguring their fleet in a few changes is somewhat disturbing.

 

This makes me wonder about the viability of their business model. They cannot compete on price with the megaships. They cannot compete on quality with the luxury lines. I thought they might have pursued a niche with smallish/medium sized ships in a premium segment below the luxury lines. It seems that as their prices have fallen, they have been forced to make compromises that bring into question their status as a premium line. I find this perplexing and wonder if they are on a trajectory that will take them into troubled waters (pun intended).

 

Is the sale of the S Class just a rumor or part of a restructuring that may occur sooner than later?

[sail7seas]

We've been told that Veendam and Statendam are for sale..... however, no one from Seattle office has called to personally verify it is true. I suspect they are all for sale, for the right price.

 

JMO......

 

[Krazy Kruizers]

No one can predict when and if the sale of any of the S class ships will happen.

You can be sure that if HAL is offered a price that they can't refuse for any of the S class ships, they will sell the ship.

The S class ships are not making money for HAL.

[sammiedawg]

I agree with the comment that holland America's business model is difficult. Other lines such as princess royal Caribbean are in a better competitive space. I do not think holland is a luxury line that can compete for that market.

[Mekka]

Based on these replies, it doesn't seem that there is any specific info about the S Class being for sale. I have no doubt that HAL would accept an offer at the right price, but who would do that? Those ships are not very efficient. Fuel and crew costs are not spread out over an adequate passenger size to make them profitable. They only way to make it work would be to differentiate their product in a way that allows them to raise the price. If anything, HAL is going in the opposite direction.

 

I wonder what would happen if HAL were to do an about face and raise their prices and make a new commitment to quality. Would people be willing to pay for a premium experience? It doesn't seem that way. From what I can gather, the majority want the lowest possible price, even if that means they will spend their time complaining about poor food and crowding. I feel a sense of sadness that the HAL experience seems doomed to mediocrity, but I guess the marketplace has the ultimate say.

[DFD1]

Mekka; I also feel the same sense of sadness that you express in your post above. I am fearful that HAL is on the way to being just another typical Carnival brand.

 

We still enjoy curising the HAL ships and will continue, but the evolution of HAL into something different is evident to us.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

[Himself]

If any of them are for sale--I do not know that they are--it would only be two and they would probably give way to the new ships coming on line. If they were to sell the Statendam or the Veendam I suspect the new ship in the Pinacle class would pick up that name. HAL is tending to go bigger and bigger and still calling them "mid-size." This is not a criticism but just an observation. The way the Industry is going, even HAL's biggest ships look small compared to some I see in port and on the high seas.

[sail7seas]

Based on these replies, it doesn't seem that there is any specific info about the S Class being for sale. I have no doubt that HAL would accept an offer at the right price, but who would do that? Those ships are not very efficient. Fuel and crew costs are not spread out over an adequate passenger size to make them profitable. They only way to make it work would be to differentiate their product in a way that allows them to raise the price. If anything, HAL is going in the opposite direction.

 

I wonder what would happen if HAL were to do an about face and raise their prices and make a new commitment to quality. Would people be willing to pay for a premium experience? It doesn't seem that way. From what I can gather, the majority want the lowest possible price, even if that means they will spend their time complaining about poor food and crowding. I feel a sense of sadness that the HAL experience seems doomed to mediocrity, but I guess the marketplace has the ultimate say.

 

 

There are some who will not accept constant degradation of product. At some point, the cuts will be too severe, IMO

 

Keep in mind, those in the top cabins are still paying a hefty per diem on a number of the itineraries..... those who are not sailing on upgrades/upsells.

 

[sunviking90]

Based on these replies, it doesn't seem that there is any specific info about the S Class being for sale. I have no doubt that HAL would accept an offer at the right price, but who would do that? Those ships are not very efficient. Fuel and crew costs are not spread out over an adequate passenger size to make them profitable. They only way to make it work would be to differentiate their product in a way that allows them to raise the price. If anything, HAL is going in the opposite direction.

 

I wonder what would happen if HAL were to do an about face and raise their prices and make a new commitment to quality. Would people be willing to pay for a premium experience? It doesn't seem that way. From what I can gather, the majority want the lowest possible price, even if that means they will spend their time complaining about poor food and crowding. I feel a sense of sadness that the HAL experience seems doomed to mediocrity, but I guess the marketplace has the ultimate say.

 

There was an earlier thread about the Ryndam possibly being for sale, but it seemed that actually it was the Statendam listed. http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1733530&highlight=ryndam+for+sale

 

It doesn't look like there are any S class ships on the site now from what I could see.

[Spinner2]

In late 2012 we were told by the Captain of one of the S-class ships that for now it made more financial sense to continue to refurbish and use the S-class ships rather than sell them. He said that while eventually they would be sold, right now the world economic situation does not support immediate replacement with larger vessels. And, he said that when they are available for sale there would be considerable interest on the part of several smaller cruise lines; these ships will not be destined for scrap. He went on to detail what work was being done on these ships to keep them attractive, safe, and well-maintained for the time being. The time estimate, to the best of my recollection, was that selling these ships was probably 5-8 years out. Eventually the costs of these smaller ships will make them non-competitive in the market that HAL wants to attract, but for now, this is the decision.

 

I believe I have stated this as it was told to us; I don't have a recording or notes. Since I do not have permission to quote this individual I'm not naming names.

 

Personally we are planning to just enjoy them as long as we can as the S-class is definitely our favorite, as it is for many of you.

[sunviking90]

In late 2012 we were told by the Captain of one of the S-class ships that for now it made more financial sense to continue to refurbish and use the S-class ships rather than sell them. He said that while eventually they would be sold, right now the world economic situation does not support immediate replacement with larger vessels. And, he said that when they are available for sale there would be considerable interest on the part of several smaller cruise lines; these ships will not be destined for scrap. He went on to detail what work was being done on these ships to keep them attractive, safe, and well-maintained for the time being. The time estimate, to the best of my recollection, was that selling these ships was probably 5-8 years out. Eventually the costs of these smaller ships will make them non-competitive in the market that HAL wants to attract, but for now, this is the decision.

 

I believe I have stated this as it was told to us; I don't have a recording or notes. Since I do not have permission to quote this individual I'm not naming names.

 

Personally we are planning to just enjoy them as long as we can as the S-class is definitely our favorite, as it is for many of you.

 

That is wonderful news. I notice the Statendam is scheduled for another Alaska season in 2014, so it looks good so far.

[DFD1]

If these ships are sailing full at current prices, and if they are even marginally profitable at those prices, there's no urgency for HAL to sell them if the sales market for them is weak.

 

I hope they remain in the fleet until I'm too old to ride on one of them.....LOL

[iancal]

My best guess is that these ships are due or overdue for very expensive engineering refits. HAL probably balances these costs against the cost of investing in new vessels as well as comparing the profit models and operating efficiencies of a newer vessel to replace the S class.

 

HAL will probably continue to band aid both until such time as the find a buyer. And that could take sometime given the current economic outlook.

 

A bigger issue is that HAL is stuck in the mass market sector yet they are often charging premium level fares. As customer loyalties and demographics change, the other premium lines like Oceania and Azamara, etc. will take this business from HAL because of the condition of their respective ships and their overall value proposition.

[iancal]

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