Beware of Art on Royal

[north29]

The only good thing about the Art auctions on cruise ship is that they are an activity, the free champaign and if the auctioneer is good you can get a great history lesson. But you better know your art before you buy. And yes we were sucker in on the won painting thing, and to top it off my wife is an very good watercolorist LOL. Having said that, if you know art and pricing of it you might get a REAL DEAL, well some rare times.

 

Need art, and not the masters or featured artist like Kincade, buy local some great art can be found in your hometown.

[marci22]

When I first started cruising we went to a Park West auction and we won a poster in the raffle. They wanted $35 to ship it in one of those cardboard tubes. I said no thanks.

[DaNana]

When I first started cruising we went to a Park West auction and we won a poster in the raffle. They wanted $35 to ship it in one of those cardboard tubes. I said no thanks.

 

$35 was probably a deal. We just shipped a tube to a granddaughter with some unframed art we have collected. The tube was a cost and the shipping. By the time we insured it, the cost was more than $35.

[aronde]

I may have had a few to many champagnes but the only 'auction' I went to was on Radiance and it was not an auction at all. This guy just showed some art and said the gallery price was $x but today it is $y (a discount) and he has three them and who wants to get one. He then yelled out 'sold to bidder 444' then 'sold to bidder 222' etc. Seriously? No one was bidding at all it was just a sale where they also added on delivery and some buyers premium as well! Admittedly I did leave early when they stopped serving drinks. Did I miss the real auction or is this how they all work?

 

 

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[Stateroom_Sailor]

It's quite possible that there was a big turnover at PW, and they've cleaned up their act.

 

I wouldn't hold my breath, I saw Ali and Peter Max "unique variations" (though they're calling it something else now) that have been exposed in the past as frauds. Couldn't RCL at least ask for a "clean variation" of Park West Gallery?

Edited March 7, 2014 by Stateroom_Sailor

[connes1]

Is the art on rccl original art or prints?

 

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[Truckersar]

Is the art on rccl original art or prints?

 

 

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Poor quality copies

Would not even justify rating them as prints!

[knittinggirl]

There's some really interesting tips on art auctions in The Intelligent Cruiser. Don't remember all the details, but all the fees and delays steered me away.

 

In a science fiction convention, I bid on a piece, and Robert Aspirin outbid me with an jump bid. I bumped into the artist in the parking lot and she sold me another copy! Still, you have to be careful of bidding and alcohol. In another science fiction convention, alcohol was flowing and I saw someone bid $200 for a temporary tattoo!

[dmarie1623]

Can you buy the art and carry it off yourself, or does it have to be sent to you? I know this is not practical for those with flights etc, but just wondering.

 

I do feel that if you like it and buy it, then there is no need to be ridiculed by some people here on CC. The thread is about warning others that the delivery is an issue.

 

I don't like being yelled at by the auctioneer for at least 15 minutes before the auction, that tells his life story exactly the same every time. Last trip on Radiance we were trying to have a quiet after lunch coffee in the Diamond lounge and the auction was next door - several times. Then on the last day he turned the music up very loud. So it would seem to me that the tactic is some alcohol, plus confusing loud noise, makes people less able to concentrate. The casinos on land use that rouse too on a Saturday night. Then they also asked you to write down the piece you wanted to bid on.

 

Can't say I liked the process, but there were quite a few attending, and some we spoke to have been very happy with their items.

 

Yes, you can purchase and carry it off yourself.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

Poor quality copies

Would not even justify rating them as prints!

 

What are you referring to by calling them "poor quality copies"? I question the authenticity of some of their higher end stuff, such as mentioned below, but I haven't viewed any originals vs serigraphs.

 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

Yes, you can purchase and carry it off yourself.

 

If they offer to sell one of their display models.

[Tennessee_Cruiser]

For what it's worth I bought two Britto pieces on the Allure and they both arrived in about 4 weeks in great condition. Love them both!!

[yknot13]

In late 2012 we cruised on Navigator out of New Orleans, on the cruise I had the pleasure of meeting a few art auction employees in the cigar lounge.

They "shared stories" of their past experience working with PW on several cruise lines. To say that their experiences were less than shady would be an under statement.

After this I decided I would never purchase art on a cruise ship.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

In late 2012 we cruised on Navigator out of New Orleans, on the cruise I had the pleasure of meeting a few art auction employees in the cigar lounge.

They "shared stories" of their past experience working with PW on several cruise lines. To say that their experiences were less than shady would be an under statement.

After this I decided I would never purchase art on a cruise ship.

 

I bet. When Fine Art Registry (gone from integrity issues of their own) had interviewed ex-employees, PW came up as quite the bully to their employees. People claimed they went through "bootcamp training" where they were torn down but never built back up. They also claimed that extortion was used to get auctioneers renewing their contracts.

[dreadpirate3]

Yes, you can purchase and carry it off yourself.

 

It was not permitted when we last attended an art auction on the cruise. We were told the items were at their main gallery and shipping was +$65 per item.

[alfaeric]

I wouldn't hold my breath, I saw Ali and Peter Max "unique variations" (though they're calling it something else now) that have been exposed in the past as frauds. Couldn't RCL at least ask for a "clean variation" of Park West Gallery?

 

From what I understand, the art that were frauds were Dahli. Not pictures and signatures of Ali, or art from Peter Max. Seems like it would be tough to fake a Max, when he's one of PW featured artists- who is very much still alive.

 

Last on board PW auction we went to, there were no Dahli's anywhere.

 

I'm interested in hearing what you think "clean variation" means.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

From what I understand, the art that were frauds were Dahli. Not pictures and signatures of Ali, or art from Peter Max. Seems like it would be tough to fake a Max, when he's one of PW featured artists- who is very much still alive.

 

Last on board PW auction we went to, there were no Dahli's anywhere.

 

I'm interested in hearing what you think "clean variation" means.

 

It's been a couple of years, but everything was obtained on Fine Art Registry's website. I even talk to the owner, watched her blog videos about the trial with PW. Though they got into legal trouble of their own, trying to strong-arm artists into registering. The website is gone, and you can obviously question their integrity as well.

 

I can't say for sure if it was based on speculation, hearsay, or documented proof that the "Peter Max Unique Variations" were frauds. The claim was that they were using real Peter Max prints, and someone other than Peter Max was adding the "unique variations" over the top of it. It was also speculated that Peter Max was aloof, didn't know, didn't believe the claims.

 

My definition of "clean variation" is where PW cleans up their act on RCL ships ;)

Edited March 7, 2014 by Stateroom_Sailor

[alfaeric]

It's been a couple of years, but everything was obtained on Fine Art Registry's website. I even talk to the owner, watched her blog videos about the trial with PW. Though they got into legal trouble of their own, trying to strong-arm artists into registering. The website is gone, and you can obviously question their integrity as well.

 

I can't say for sure if it was based on speculation, hearsay, or documented proof that the "Peter Max Unique Variations" were frauds. The claim was that they were using real Peter Max prints, and someone other than Peter Max was adding the "unique variations" over the top of it. It was also speculated that Peter Max was aloof, didn't know, didn't believe the claims.

 

My definition of "clean variation" is where PW cleans up their act on RCL ships ;)

 

Interesting- when I went to their site, Fine Art's Registry's claims were against the Salvador Dahli artworks. I don't recall any mention of Peter Max. Being that Max has his own shops around the country, had their been actual frauds, I would fully expect that Peter Max's advisors and partners would cut all ties with Park West. Yet they still sell his art- originals, lithographs, etc. All of the claims don't seem to add up to making any sense. No way would you let a company represent your art if they were making fakes of it in the past, and ruining your name.

 

Again, what does "clear variation" mean or what is your standard of cleaning up their act? How can you tell?

[yogimax]

Art on Royal and Park West are two distinct companies. If I remember from our last cruise, RCCL is actually moving back to PW, who have a much better reputation than the English company that was handling Art on Royal.

 

I have to laugh at some of the comments here from folks are probably know very little if anything about art.

 

To call a serigraph or a lithograph a "cheap print" demonstrates my point.

 

Bottom line - of you don't like the auctions, don't go. We have bought a number of framed carry offs for less than $100.

 

As for the person who resurrected this thread, I am curious if she is talking about stuff she gave on consignment that never sold or art work that sold and she never received payment. Frankly I am surprised that Art on Royal accepted consignments. Guess I learned something today!

[tispwisp]

Is the art on rccl original art or prints?

 

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They have both. Originals, giclees, serigraphs, lithographs, and paper prints. We have bought quite a few original oils from cruise ships that we look at often and reminds us of our wonderful vacations. We didn't buy them because of investment purposes, but simply because we like them.

[tispwisp]

Art on Royal and Park West are two distinct companies. If I remember from our last cruise, RCCL is actually moving back to PW, who have a much better reputation than the English company that was handling Art on Royal.

 

I have to laugh at some of the comments here from folks are probably know very little if anything about art.

 

To call a serigraph or a lithograph a "cheap print" demonstrates my point.

 

Bottom line - of you don't like the auctions, don't go. We have bought a number of framed carry offs for less than $100.

 

As for the person who resurrected this thread, I am curious if she is talking about stuff she gave on consignment that never sold or art work that sold and she never received payment. Frankly I am surprised that Art on Royal accepted consignments. Guess I learned something today!

 

I know the person that resurrected this thread. It is both. She did give art on consignment and is having a difficult time getting her art back AND there were a lot of works sold that she never received payment for.

 

I believe most of the art on Art on Royal were consignments.

 

I'm not sure if Park West owns the works or if theirs is on consignment as well.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

Interesting- when I went to their site, Fine Art's Registry's claims were against the Salvador Dahli artworks. I don't recall any mention of Peter Max. Being that Max has his own shops around the country, had their been actual frauds, I would fully expect that Peter Max's advisors and partners would cut all ties with Park West. Yet they still sell his art- originals, lithographs, etc. All of the claims don't seem to add up to making any sense. No way would you let a company represent your art if they were making fakes of it in the past, and ruining your name.

 

Again, what does "clear variation" mean or what is your standard of cleaning up their act? How can you tell?

 

I don't know if there was anything about Peter Max that had to do with the trial, I am referring to information received in 2012. At the very least it was posted on several of Fine Art Registry's youtube blogs, and vented about in personal e-mail. I'm not going to speculate beyond that, I don't have sources, don't trust either side, and know too many artists that are easily taken advantage of.

 

Here's an interesting article on Ali:

 

http://www.freep.com/article/20120627/BUSINESS06/206270344/Muhammad-Ali-Center-sues-Park-West-Gallery-in-Southfield-over-donated-artwork

 

I don't need to answer to a subjective saying, to a company with a questionable history, who's already been booted from the cruise line once. People say variations of, "cleaning up their act" all the time.

 

Let's say McDonald's got booted from a school cafeteria for the "pink slime preservatives", and I said, "Maybe they need to go a little more McHealthy", doesn't that just speak for itself, and to whatever context you yourself view that too?

 

How can I tell? I never claimed it was my job to tell, either with the signatures or the pink slime. When the Dali and Ali institutes start filing lawsuits, and judgements are issued, it's a pretty good indication ;)

Edited March 8, 2014 by Stateroom_Sailor

[Ocean View]

Question- the Britto they sell is it worth it? Is that ever in question? I don't know much about it just wondering

 

 

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[Stateroom_Sailor]

Question- the Britto they sell is it worth it? Is that ever in question? I don't know much about it just wondering

 

 

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I can't answer about this artists specifically, but only some of their high dollar items have been questioned. Personally I look on Ebay to compare quickly, keeping in mind what you are actually looking at (poster vs 3d art) and whether it is framed.

 

Sometimes PW offers an attractive price, other times you are better off waiting till they get a new set for less expensive. Just make sure not to look at it as an investment, assume you'll lose money if you sell (like anything else you buy), walk the auction off for a couple hours without bidding, take a 2nd look, ask for package deals, and you'll be fine. I like Britto.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Stateroom_Sailor

[Ocean View]

I can't answer about this artists specifically, but only their high dollar items have been questioned. Personally I look on Ebay to compare quickly, keeping in mind what you are actually looking at (poster vs 3d art) and whether it is framed.

 

Sometimes PW offers an attractive price, other times you are better off waiting till they get a new set for less expensive. Just make sure not to look at it as an investment, assume you'll lose money when you sell (like anything else you buy), and you'll be fine. I like Britto.

 

 

I was wondering about the Britto store not auction or is all about the same?

 

 

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