Ok, so tell me out ridculous this idea is but...

[gtalum]

Proof please.

 

Gregg

 

You need proof that Oasis and Allure were built to the 2010 SOLAS specifications and the rest of the fleet is not?

[gtalum]

Are you kidding?? They didn't miss any ports (Legend), made it back to FLL on correct day (Dream & Triumph) and next cruise left as scheduled (Dream & Triumph). Calling that fire serious would be like calling a 1" snowfall a blizzard.

 

Um. I suggest you do more reading on these incidents. Allure didn't miss any ports, but one engine room was put out of commission. The 2010 SOLAS requirements require full redundancy. Ships built before that had only partial redundancy, including RCCL ships. You might note that the USCG inspection indicated that Triumph's engines could have bene restarted, but without full redundancy in the fire suppression system it may not have been safe.

 

If missing ports and being flown home is the criteria, then how about the Azamara Quest (owned by RCI) engine fire in 2012?

 

In the meantime, I'll avoid jumping to conclusions that counter logic in the absence of evidence... and of course the, erm, "interesting" theory that a profit-driven entity will forego necessary (and inexpensive) preventive maintenance on multi-hundred-million dollar machines at the risk of massive losses.

[Maxiecat3]

You need proof that Oasis and Allure were built to the 2010 SOLAS specifications and the rest of the fleet is not?

 

No, I need proof that if had happened to any other ship it would have ended like the Triumph. You claimed that would have happened, so prove it.

 

Gregg

[gtalum]

No, I need proof that if had happened to any other ship it would have ended like the Triumph. You claimed that would have happened, so prove it.

 

Gregg

 

Perhaps you don't understand SOLAS or redundancy. I can't help you with that.

[Ltcsquad]

I just got done talking to Orlando my Carnival Vacation Panner and got the second price reduction on our Cruise. This is great, a couple more break downs and they will be paying me to go on thier Cruise. But seriously **** happens. You can walk across the street and not get hit by a reckless driver but then trip on the crub and burst your skull open. There were at least 3 other cruise ships that had problems last week but the news chose not to report on them, but they happen. Just read Cruise Critic News they report all of them. No line is exempt from problems. RCCL spent a billion on the Allure and they had a fire. Things happen any where or at any time. There was nothing wrong with the Dream that the ship couldn't sail. But the company policy would not allow it to sail without the backup Generator. I rather be safe than sorry.

[Maxiecat3]

Perhaps you don't understand SOLAS or redundancy. I can't help you with that.

 

Unless you have some inside information on how the ships were built before Oasis & Allure, there is no way you can state for a fact, as you did, that a fire on any of those ships like the fire on Allure would have had the same results as Triumph. You can assume it might, but you can't prove it.

 

Gregg

[Big_G]

Two weeks prior to the engine room fire casualty at sea, the Carnival Triumph experienced propulsion issues that caused it to be five hours late returning to its Galveston home port on January 28, 2013, delayed the ship's departure for its next cruise from 2:30 p.m. until 8 p.m. that night, and resulted in the elimination of a scheduled stop in Cozumel because of the ship's diminished cruising speed.[22] While in port, a Port State Control (PSC) vessel inspection by the Texas City, Texas, U.S. Coast Guard Marine Safety Unit was conducted, resulting in a finding that there was "a short in the high voltage connection box of one of the ships generators causing damage to cables within the connection box", a deficiency under 50AC SOLAS 2009 Ch 1 Reg 11.[23] A directive with a compliance due date of February 27, 2013 was issued following the inspection, requiring that "the condition of the ship and its equipment shall be maintained to conform with the regulations to ensure that the ship in all respects will remain fit to proceed to sea without danger to the ship or persons on board." The Coast Guard Marine Information Safety and Law Enforcement System showed that this deficiency remained unresolved at the time of the subsequent fire and loss of power while at sea on February 10.

Wikipedia

[Big_G]

Perhaps you don't understand SOLAS or redundancy. I can't help you with that.

 

In other words, you CANNOT provide the proof. We were on Enchantment for an engine room fire. The fire was brought under control before we reached the life boat stations. We sailed on and completed the itinerary on time.

[gtalum]

You're right, I can't absolutely prove that the Allure fire would have disabled the pre-SOLAS 2010 ships in RCI's fleet (they did, to their credit, take the step of outfitting Oasis to the spec before it was required), but knowledge of SOLAS 2010 and basic redundancy tell me it's true. You don't have that knowledge, so I digress.

 

Similarly, you can't "prove" that any of these recent incidents is due to a lack of preventive maintenance by Carnival, and unlike me you don't have SOLAS standards to back you up, and I do have a USCG initial inspection to back my opinion up as well.

 

Having established that, then what about the Azamara Quest fire, which did result in propulsion loss and a terminated cruise? Was RCI's maintenance faulty then?

 

Also, do you know who performs maintenance on Carnival Corp's Azipods? I'll give you a hint: it's not Carnival and it's the same company who maintains RCI's azipods.

 

The simple fact is that mechanical devices will fail. They always do. Further, statistics tell us that sometimes several incidents will happen at once regardless of precautions.

[Bigtex1622]

..... You might note that the USCG inspection indicated that Triumph's engines could have bene restarted, but without full redundancy in the fire suppression system it may not have been safe.

......

 

Did not need to know, that they don't have full redundancy in the fire suppression system.:eek:

 

:rolleyes:

[gtalum]

Did not need to know that they don't have full redundancy in the fire suppression system.:eek:

 

:rolleyes:

 

That's the USCG's initial analysis. I was surprised to learn that it's not a requirement. Once they extinguish one fire, in many older ships that's it and there's not enough Halon to extinguish another.

[Bigtex1622]

That's the USCG's initial analysis. I was surprised to learn that it's not a requirement. Once they extinguish one fire, in many older ships that's it and there's not enough Halon to extinguish another.

 

I wonder if you can bring fire extinguishers on board?

 

 

:rolleyes:

[gtalum]

I wonder if you can bring fire extinguishers on board?

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

Heh, I don't think handheld extinguishers will do much good in a pressurized fuel oil fire. ;) :D

[Maxiecat3]

You're right, I can't absolutely prove that the Allure fire would have disabled the pre-SOLAS 2010 ships in RCI's fleet (they did, to their credit, take the step of outfitting Oasis to the spec before it was required), but knowledge of SOLAS 2010 and basic redundancy tell me it's true. You don't have that knowledge, so I digress.

 

Similarly, you can't "prove" that any of these recent incidents is due to a lack of preventive maintenance by Carnival, and unlike me you don't have SOLAS standards to back you up, and I do have a USCG initial inspection to back my opinion up as well.

 

Having established that, then what about the Azamara Quest fire, which did result in propulsion loss and a terminated cruise? Was RCI's maintenance faulty then?

 

Also, do you know who performs maintenance on Carnival Corp's Azipods? I'll give you a hint: it's not Carnival and it's the same company who maintains RCI's azipods.

 

The simple fact is that mechanical devices will fail. They always do. Further, statistics tell us that sometimes several incidents will happen at once regardless of precautions.

 

Touchy aren't we?? I never ONCE stated anything about the problems on Carnival were maintenance related. Why would you feel a need to state they I can't "prove" that they were caused by lack of preventative maintenance, since I never questioned that in the first place?? My initial points were, you said the Allure fire was serious, which it wasn't, and that if that fire had happened somewhere else it would have ended like the Triumph, which nobody knows. That is why i used the analogy that comparing the Allure fire to the Triumph fire is like comparing a 1" snowfall to a blizzard. Any rational person would take many incidents like the Allure fire over the Triumph fire.

 

Gregg

[big_duck]

Clusters are proof of true randomness.

[gtalum]

Touchy aren't we?? I never ONCE stated anything about the problems on Carnival were maintenance related.

 

I was responding to multiple people at once. :)

 

And you're right, I'm getting "touchy" about all the bad info floating around out there.

 

I'm no cheerleader, I just try to base my analysis on facts and get frustrated when others just start throwing random incorrect "facts" out there. The claim has been made here (not by you, and I apologize if I implied so), over and over, that Carnival is skimping on preventive maintenance to shore up the bottom line. I haven't yet seen any reasonable explanation of how doing so will improve profit, though.

[ib4cruzn]

Fuel lines aren't trusses. Perhaps your experience doesn't apply. Unless it's found that Carnival violated the recommended inspection times (which I seriously doubt), there is nothing to indicate that they have skimped on maintenance.

 

Further, nobody has yet offered what logic might be used for a profit-driven entity to forego necessary preventive maintenance on multi-hundred-million dollar machines, especially when it will inevitably end up in that machine laid up for weeks for repairs. Occam's razor and all that. ;)

 

My point being that there is typically an indication. For a fuel line it could either be a pinchpoint or a simple vibration. Physics be physics. Unless this fuel line was changed by Carnival or its agent others of that same build will suffer the same fate.

 

Statisticly ANY failure will occur during a cruise causing some sort of discomfort. Had Carnival not failed so miserably with the Triumph debacle they wouldn't be enjoying the bad press they now received.

 

I will admit though, they've stepped up admirably since then.

[michelle1836]

I am pretty sure this is all due to some sort of alien life form. they must only be attracted to red and blue whale tails. Somehow their life force is disrupting the ship engines and such. They need to call in Fox Mulder to investigate. just in case

[mzloolue]

How many Greggs are there?

 

Odd that...

[gtalum]

Statisticly ANY failure will occur during a cruise causing some sort of discomfort. Had Carnival not failed so miserably with the Triumph debacle they wouldn't be enjoying the bad press they now received.

 

Agreed, except that I don't think that Carnival failed in the Triumph incident outside of its atrocious PR department. If the Coast Guard inquiry indicates otherwise, I'll happily change my tune.

[Maxiecat3]

How many Greggs are there?

 

Odd that...

 

We belong to a secret society that is going to take over the cruise industry:):). On a side note, when somebody asks my name and I tell them, they almost always ask is that with 1 or 2 g's. I love watching their expressions when I tell them 3.

 

Gregg:)

[richfret]

I don't buy the conspiracy theory. The problem is that the Back Up system on all the Carnival ships is inadequate. It's like when the Titanic sailed with an inadequate number of life boats. Those is authority knew about it but did nothing. As the new ships were being built for Carnival, some one should have asked what would happen if an engine failed or if the main power generator broke down. If the answer was that 20 percent of the power would be restored but most of the toilets would not work, then that should have sounded an alarm. Like the Titanic, it did not.

 

The only solution now is to replace the back up generators with more powerful units that will do the job for the entire ship. That is not going to be easy. New generators may have to be designed and all the ships revamped. It 's going to cost lots of money and it's going to take lots of time! I also blame the Coast Guard who claim to have no powers to correct the situation. Their function seems to be to ride next to the disabled ships and wait for them to sink. Again like the Titanic, the laws that govern the safety of the ships also seem inadequate.

 

It's time for Carnival to come up with a plan other than to request patience. I have completed 16 Carnival cruises and am booked for number 17. Come on Carnival, do what's best for your custormer and be honest with us. We want to cruise. ................ Safely!

[Aplmac]

Carnival to me has cut down the most drastic when it comes to entertainment, food quality/selection/variety...they cut back drastically in its entertainment....they no longer have the live bands out on the pool deck.....the service in the MDR is horrible the waiters have many more tables to serve....I think that its a possibility that they cut back on their maintence department, just makes all sense.

 

I can't explain how else three of its ships having serious problems within just a handful of weeks to one another, something is wrong.

Could it be...that no-one wants to pay the dreaded Fuel Surcharge :cool:

despite the fact that Oil has been over the $70-a-barrel mark

for like a hundred years now??

 

And so Carnival found ways to cut corners on you, in order to finance the whole operation?

 

Could this be part-of the reason for today's problems?

 

Naaaaaah. Couldn't possibly be.. :)

 

.

[e150club]

Too many pax removed their auto tips so the crew broke the ship.

[cruiseonthebrain]

I'm just tired of some people I work with making snide remarks that Carnival is horrible and I made a bad choice for my wedding. I have less than 60 days until we set sail and I'm not changing all my plans now.

 

I wish people could just wish you well instead of wanting to find things that could go wrong for me. :(

 

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

Didi- don't let those idiots at work break your pre-wedding Zen bubble. I am sure you will have a fabulous time!