HAL Backing Off from Caribbean Cruises?

[SwissMyst]

... I have the opportunity to talk to cruiser daily and Holland America's biggest problem is not just that they are perceived as being the cruise line with senior passengers but that they have OLD small ships.. Everyone now wants a balcony. S and R Class ships do not have that......

 

Thank goodness HAL continues to fill their ships with old passengers who love her old ships and whose travel budgets are comfortable with non-verandah rooms. I have not seen empty ships when cruising these old smaller HAL ships and I would not be surprised if the lower-priced non-verandah cabins are the first ones to sell out first.

 

And yes, I can see why this would not appeal to many new cruisers, but I sense HAL is still doing just fine with their "old" cruisers and all their new and unique destinations.

[Sea42]

I would love to see less ships in the Caribbean. We used to love vacationing at many of these places but as the cruise ship numbers increased, these destinations changed dramatically. We tried a couple of Caribbean cruises but we much prefer visiting on land based vacations. It would be a welcome change for us but unfortunately it would be hard on the local economies.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Thank goodness HAL continues to fill their ships with old passengers who love her old ships and whose travel budgets are comfortable with non-verandah rooms. I have not seen empty ships when cruising these old smaller HAL ships and I would not be surprised if the lower-priced non-verandah cabins are the first ones to sell out first.

 

And yes, I can see why this would not appeal to many new cruisers, but I sense HAL is still doing just fine with their "old" cruisers and all their new and unique destinations.

Sadly that is the problem HAL is NOT filling their ships. This Spring is worse than last year with HAL offering pricing in Flash sales far lower than ever. The reason you have not seen empty ships is because HAL will not let a ships sail with any empty cabins. They will keep dropping the prices to the point that anyone that can scrape together the money can get on board the ship. The target profit margin that HAL want to reach is not being done on the Older smaller ships. At one point several years ago HAL and Princess were quite successful in doing their Flash pricing because those that got a bargain were in theory having more money on what they saved to spend this on board the ship. Unfortunately that is no longer what is happening and they are finding that those that spent very little for their cruise are spending even less money on board the ship. The other cruise lines are selling their cabins at a much high per diam and that passengers is spending more money on board the ship. Rather than competing in this market where they already know they are at the bottom gives HAL no choice but to do fewer sailings and move out of the area to do more exotic longer sailings where they can charge more and hopefully sell more excursions bringing in the demographic of those that will spend the money.

[SwissMyst]

....... Rather than competing in this market where they already know they are at the bottom gives HAL no choice but to do fewer sailings and move out of the area to do more exotic longer sailings where they can charge more and hopefully sell more excursions bringing in the demographic of those that will spend the money.

 

 

Sound good to me. I do see HAL as much more a niche cruise line than a mainstream. Agree, it is silly for them to compete against the new and glitzier volume cruise lines who go to the same tired old ports. Case in point, we took the lower priced ocean view room on our last 50 day trip, and spent a huge amount on shore excursions because of the exotic itinerary. This seemed to be a good compromise niche for us.

[sail7seas]

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They have had to drop their prices drastically to sell the berths they have, then those passengers they get on board are truly not what HAL wants because they also do NOT spend any money on board to make up for the revenue lost on giving away the cabin.

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That doesn't describe All of us. Maybe some, maybe a lot of us but some of us are spending hefty per diems and contributing to HAL's profits while aboard. :)

 

We just happen to love the Caribbean. We love sailing there on HAL ships and have done as much of Europe as we want at this point. we hit all the spots that interested us as many times as we wish. DH isn't retired so we aren't taking Grand Voyages..... he won't leave his office that long.

 

So, for some of us, it isn't about 'cheap' bookings.

 

[LAFFNVEGAS]

That doesn't describe All of us. Maybe some, maybe a lot of us but some of us are spending hefty per diems and contributing to HAL's profits while aboard. :)

 

We just happen to love the Caribbean. We love sailing there on HAL ships and have done as much of Europe as we want at this point. we hit all the spots that interested us as many times as we wish. DH isn't retired so we aren't taking Grand Voyages..... he won't leave his office that long.

 

So, for some of us, it isn't about 'cheap' bookings.

 

Sail, you are in the minority and those that want a specific cabin number in a category SA sadly seldom ever see any price decreases. The highest category in each type of cabin seldom gets decrease in price. While I do not know the exact average percentage I would venture to say it is less than 30% that actually book the available SA cabins in advance. Most will gamble with the SC Guarantee or even a lower category waiting for an Up sell offer. HAL is basically the only cruise line that exists that is doing the pricing they way they are doing it. I think at one point it was working for HAL but it is now not working out so well :rolleyes: HAL is hoping that they keep some of their clients that book a specific cabin early and never think twice about the price and relooking at pricing. 10 to 15 years ago that worked well for HAL. Now as more people use the Internet the less that are willing to pay the initial cost.

[kazu]

Sail, you are in the minority and those that want a specific cabin number in a category SA sadly seldom ever see any price decreases. The highest category in each type of cabin seldom gets decrease in price. While I do not know the exact average percentage I would venture to say it is less than 30% that actually book the available SA cabins in advance. Most will gamble with the SC Guarantee or even a lower category waiting for an Up sell offer. HAL is basically the only cruise line that exists that is doing the pricing they way they are doing it. I think at one point it was working for HAL but it is now not working out so well :rolleyes: HAL is hoping that they keep some of their clients that book a specific cabin early and never think twice about the price and relooking at pricing. 10 to 15 years ago that worked well for HAL. Now as more people use the Internet the less that are willing to pay the initial cost.

 

thanks Lisa - I really hope HAL gets 'with it' and starts rewarding people who book early with discounts. It may even encourage more bookings early.:D

 

and yes, the days of booking and not checking prices have been over for a very, very long time.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

Lisa, thanks for your insights as to markets and pricing. Very interesting. We have sailed both HAL and RCCL in the Caribbean. On the Brilliance of the Seas this past January, I did see a lot of spending on board, more than I have seen on HAL. Also saw a lot of wine and alcohol confiscated from a bunch of very surprised passengers.

[lettienets]

thanks Lisa - I really hope HAL gets 'with it' and starts rewarding people who book early with discounts. It may even encourage more bookings early.:D

 

and yes, the days of booking and not checking prices have been over for a very, very long time.

I just started cruising NCL again and notice they give extra days in loyalty points if you book 9 months out. Now that is a bonus worth considering.

[fireofficer5]

Exactly! Go to a new market where the customers aren't attempting to go on a 7 day cruise for $399 bring their own beverages then remove the hotel service charge at the end of the cruise. What business person with any brains would want a boatload of these schmoes... trip after trip? Sounds like a good way to go under real fast.

Carnival wants them.

[fireofficer5]

There are actually a few drydocks in North America that can accommodate 220,000 ton ships. But there are not nearly enough American shipyard workers who have any knowledge or experience in renovating ships built in Europe or Asia.

The few Americans who do know how to do the work take twice as long and demand 5 times as much money to do it.

US Immigration will no longer issue work visas for the European shipyard workers to do the work in North American shipyards.

It is actually less expensive for the cruise lines to move the ships to Canada (Smaller ships) or Europe or Asia (Larger ships) to get the work done. After drydock, they can run a few local cruises to help pay for the extra fuel for the transatlantic crossing.

just making things up huh.

Its cheaper in europe, subsidised by the goverment ship yards.

The subsidised yards in the US are full of naval ships.

[kkorman]

Well said Lisa.

 

Next year will also see Princess back in the year round Caribbean business with the Caribbean Princess out of FLL year round and Celebrity cut back their European season with all ships back by mid November in 2014. Royal added another ship this year for the summer and is pulling their year round Europe this year. The saturation of Europe along with the economic issues hurt last summer.

 

I have not been a cheerleader for HAL on my last 2 cruises, but for the price, you really cannot be that much of a demoter. They are definitely losing the pice integrity war as I am paying almost triple the price for my Celebrity Thanksgiving cruise next year than I did this year... We will see if the price goes down, but they are clever with their popular 123 go promo to keep the pricing high... It is not combinable with all fares, so if you want a price decrease you would give up one of your benefits.

 

It will be interesting to see the development of the Asian market as it seems ready to explode.

[foodsvcmgr]

Although I cannot question the logic beyond the "theories" of why HAL

might want to reduce their presence in the Caribbean in favor of more profitable itineraries, where is this actually supported by fact in schedules available to the general public?

 

At present, the only major reduction I can see is with MAASDAM running only a handful of 10 and 11 day Caribbean cruises rather than a full Winter season. For the other ships the differences are minimal if any.

 

Is anyone here privy to the Fall/Winter 2014-15 program to know in fact if any of this speculation is supported by actual reductions in ships or sailings?