Carnival Sunshine Vandalism

[DebJ14]

According to this article the issue with the Sunshine when people were bumped after the refit was due to vandalism of the electrical and plumbing systems. This article is out today. It would have gone a long way to allay criticism on social media if they had explained that this was the problem back when the ship started sailing as the Carnival Sunshine. Instead we were treated to a barrage of comments about how incompetent Carnival was that they could not get the ship totally finished on time.

 

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Carnival-Sunshine-was-set-back-by-vandalism-reveals-CEO/

[BigDoug]

You should check DryDockDave's posts about what was happening on the Sunshine.:(

[Aplmac]

Shocking! Who paid them to vandalise?

-or were they just that fed-up with Carnival? -or Fincantieri?

 

Will future ships now be made in Finland, at Aker instead?

 

.

[BeachChik]

Dry dock Dave post:

 

"Someone sent me a private message and asked me to check out this thread, I can see why now and as much as I'd rather try and forget about that ship, I'll take the time to say this.......it's real easy to speculate and voice opinions over the internet it seems, and everyone is entitled to an opinion, but facts are usually more useful.

 

So, fact number 1.... Ultimately, Carnival are 100% responsible for the conditions and the experience for their passengers, regardless of if it's the first cruise after a dry dock, or the last one before a dry dock, or any cruise inbetween

 

 

Fact number 2... Carnival DID do everything they could and more to try and get that ship 100% ready, but no, I don't think that excuses them for it not being done.

 

Now I'm going to be as vague as possible because I'm not one to sterotype entire nationalitys on the actions of a few, but I know some of what happened, and saw things with my own eyes.

 

A couple of people here were smart enough to look a little further than the ships owner as to why the ship is in the firing line right now. Think about it for a little while.... The Sunshine was the only ship in a large ship yard in an area that is dependant on work and income from that ship yard, and the revenue brought in from the contractors on board using the local facilities too. The hassle and headaches that non Italian contractors have to jump through to work in that shipyard are ridiculous, so I'll leave it to your imaginations to work out what nationality the majority there were. Another thing to consider is each individual contractor has different payment terms, some are price work (so you get paid for each cabin carpetted / tiled for example) which can lead to high income for skilled workers prepared to work hard, or high profits for not so skilled workers prepared to cut corners and hope that a lesser quality job wont get noticed too often, and the ones that do get noticed and have to be redone at cost aren't too many. Others are on day rate so they get the same money regardless of hours worked or work produced. Most there were on hourly rate, so provided you're on board you're getting paid, you could be working hard, or asleep somewhere, you're still getting paid. There are pro's and cons to all methods, but the difference is highlighted most when there isn't much work left to do, and there's a lot of people left to do it. Those on day rate will simply get the days work done and leave the yard, those on hourly rate will be bored out of their brains because they HAVE to stay on the ship as the card system logs time you enter and leave the ship and the yard.

 

As soon as the departure date was extended / first cruises cancelled, the work rate dropped immensely.... loads of time now was the attitude of most. I saw people playing football, sweeping areas clean and then kicking the pile around the floor for the fun of being able to sweep the area again, a large number of TV's in cabins were damaged, and not accidentally, simply punched so the screen is ruined. While we're on the subject of TV's, this is the first and only time I ever heard the words 'we've run out of TV's' on a dry dock.... they know how many they need, and there's container fulls that are deployed for days, worse still, Carnival knowingly ordered MORE than they needed because of where the dry dock was done and yet still run out. The list of incidents and problems I could relay that are all down to one factor are immense. Every new cabin (built as a 'module' that 'should' just get fitted and then wired, plumbed in and have the AC connected) has issues causing major difficulties for the contractors aboard to carry out their part... everything took 10 times longer due to this and required parts that were not expected to be needed so not on board. Coincidentally, the company who made the cabins were of the same nationality as the yard.

 

If there was an excuse to prolong things or delay progress, it was found by some... new cables being run long distances through the ship were being cut while they were being run so when finished would not work so would have to be redone. These are just the deliberate type attempts, the more astounding being finished areas being raided for bits forgotted on other areas yet finished.... better still when the finished area was completed by a different contractor! Speakers removed and refitted elsewhere to save having to pay for their own out of their budget when they either threw out the originals when the area was stripped, or they overlooked the need for extras as the floor space was now bigger. Finished areas were soon locked for security reasons which is something I've never ever experienced before, I think the final straw was an 80" plasma TV in the kids area getting slashed across the screen with a blade.

 

500 meter drums of cable were going missing, boxes and boxes of electrical sockets and switches were going missing... when the whole ship is an open building site, secure storage is non existant. I've worked in many countries in many shipyards on a large number of different ships, and I have never ever seen such blatant dishonesty and disregard for other peoples property and workmanship. Truthfully? I'm embarassed that I was even present and associated with that job, because for years to come, the stories told over that one dry dock amongst the circle of contractors that do this work around the world will be hideous.

 

Ultimately Carnival are to blame, they picked where the work was carried out, and I'm assuming with some idea of the potential problems at least, simply from the statement made about the extra TV's being ordered. Now I don't know why they picked that place, maybe it was cheapest, part of me thinks it was probably the only shipyard in the world desperate enough for work to agree to take on that sized project on that particular ship. Don't take that the wrong way, the ship is as safe as any other, but technically speaking to work on it? It's your worst nightmare multiplied by infinity... documentation of the original build may as well be fictional, it was probably planned that way once upon a time... but how it ended up being when it left the yard original bears little resemblance to what the paperwork would suggest. I'll leave it to you guys to look up where it was built, having worked there for myself it's no real surprise to me.

 

So to summarise.... do I think it's right / fair that paying passengers going on their dream holiday are subjected to problems and areas closed for works? No, not even remotely acceptable, and I'm confident Carnival will do what they can to compensate for it. Is that enough to make up for it? I guess that's up to each indivual wishing to be compensated, none of which as yet are here discssing this so to me is irrelevant. All I can say in Carnivals defence on this, is that they DID all they could to have a ship finished for those joining it... you will never ever see a more dedicated and commited team than there was on board that ship from the CCL side of things, pushed to the limits physically and mentally to achieve the unachieveable, because the truth is, if that ship stayed in that yard until it was 100% finished, it would become a museum for Trieste tourists... it got to the point it was being broken faster than those trying to finish it could keep up. Carnival made the right choice to finish the rest in service with contractors they could trust and keep an eye on the progress of"

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=38283914#post38283914

[golfadj]

DD Dave's posts were right on the money.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

According to this article the issue with the Sunshine when people were bumped after the refit was due to vandalism of the electrical and plumbing systems. This article is out today. It would have gone a long way to allay criticism on social media if they had explained that this was the problem back when the ship started sailing as the Carnival Sunshine. Instead we were treated to a barrage of comments about how incompetent Carnival was that they could not get the ship totally finished on time.

 

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Carnival-Sunshine-was-set-back-by-vandalism-reveals-CEO/

 

somebody posted this yesterday too, but from a different source.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1883232&highlight=vandalism

 

Bill

[Aplmac]

DD Dave's posts were right on the money.

And what he's revealed is shocking.

 

As shocking as the Jan 2012 incident that put a ship on the rocks, off the coast of Tuscany somewhere.

Same un-mentionable nationality by the way, sorry.

.

[Pine Bluff]

This is confusing.

 

Thois was all discussed back in April and May, and during discussions I'd come back and couldn't find the info. Then it would be discussed again, and come back and couldn't find it.

 

So current events were delayed, and now the story come out, when the scoop was here to begin with, and then lost.

 

So much for leading the story.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

The best part is they just gave the contract to the same builder for the Vista although someone said it is a different shipyard.

 

Bill

[Pine Bluff]

So this means all the rumours of the Sunshine have proven to be true, except one, that the ship lists when the fuel tanks are full, and are purposely sailing the ships with the tanks on low.

 

Wonder how long before that last rumour is verified. That ship will need a topping off before it sets sail on its TA.

[EZ4]

So this means all the rumours of the Sunshine have proven to be true, except one, that the ship lists when the fuel tanks are full, and are purposely sailing the ships with the tanks on low.

 

Wonder how long before that last rumour is verified. That ship will need a topping off before it sets sail on its TA.

 

LOL!! That pesky "L" word has resurfaced. You know, it's just the webcam angle, or perhaps a crooked horizon. ;)

[RD64]

As someone whose background is from this specific region of Italy - I can't help but wonder if there is more to this story - Fincantieri in Monfalcone have produced dozens of ships for Carnival, Princess, and P & O without any problems - or at least publicized problems.

 

The Carnival Breeze was delivered ON TIME in 2012. The Royal Princess was recently delivered - ON TIME - for Princess. The Spanish cruise ship that had fire damage was repaired at Fincantieri with no delays or problems. The only time I recall there being a delay in a ship delivery was back around 1998 with the first Disney ship - and that was at the Fincantieri Marghera shipyyard. All of the Holland America ships have been built at either Marghera or Monfalcone - no problems.

 

So to recap - I am not sure what the cause of the problems with the Carnival Sunshine were - but please do not slam an entire country and its people!

[Pine Bluff]

So to recap - I am not sure what the cause of the problems with the Carnival Sunshine were - but please do not slam an entire country and its people!

 

Every post I read excluded "that country and its people".

[MrPete]

According to this article the issue with the Sunshine when people were bumped after the refit was due to vandalism of the electrical and plumbing systems. This article is out today. It would have gone a long way to allay criticism on social media if they had explained that this was the problem back when the ship started sailing as the Carnival Sunshine. Instead we were treated to a barrage of comments about how incompetent Carnival was that they could not get the ship totally finished on time.

 

http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Carnival-Sunshine-was-set-back-by-vandalism-reveals-CEO/

 

This is exactly what Dry Dock Dave was reporting back before the ship set sail.

[chengkp75]

As an industry insider, I have to disagree with Dave, as I did a while back on the original thread.

 

1. Once the underwater work is completed, the ship is generally floated out to a wet berth to complete repairs, as the daily drydock cost is significantly higher than wet berth, and the yard usually needs to prep the dock for the next ship. At any time that Carnival felt there were problems with the labor in Fincantieri, while the ship is not in drydock, they can pull out and continue work elsewhere.

 

2. Carnival should have had sufficient superintendents onboard to oversee all areas of work, and any problems are typically brought to the yard's attention at a daily meeting. If work is marked as completed (even progress levels, like cabling run through such and such compartment), and the next day, that work is found vandalized, the yard and/or the subcontractors can be held financially responsible for the cost to repair, and the demurrage (delay to the ship in returning to service) caused by the damage and repair. It is obvious to me that Carnival did not properly supervise the shipyard, nor did they take a hard line with them regarding the vandalism.

 

3. Once the "heavy lifting" is done, of drydock work, and installing new attractions and new modular accommodations, most of the work can be done by subcontractors, which could be brought in anywhere Carnival decided to take the ship once they decided to leave the yard due to the vandalism.

 

4. Some finishing work is frequently done while the ship is in service, but I feel that Carnival has done financial damage to itself worth more than the revenue lost from another couple of cruises lost to fix everything before returning to service.

 

With regards to RD64's comments, the fact that other ships were completed on time and in good order suggests that there is something faulty in Carnival's relationship with Fincantieri, either in personnel or financial, that would cause the yard to not care what the employees were or were not doing.