Noordam: Broken Toilet, Cold Showers, and a missed port to save money!

[puli]

Actually, it is still called a "delayed flush" working toilet. :cool: Your analogy is not valid. No points.

 

Very valid especially if your ship is on " Code Red"!

[OlsSalt]

Very valid especially if your ship is on "Red Alert"!

 

Follow the captains advice - don't put your hands in it, so you don't have to worry.

[Boatdrill]

No answer (that I could see) from the OP to my question about Portofino, so I'll assume the answer is "Yes."

 

His complaint about the Captain's decision not to use Portofino as an alternate stop reminds me of this exchange with a passenger

as we were leaving port on the Amsterdam. A few of us were standing on deck watching the pilot boat approach. A man came near me and peered over the railing

to see what we were watching.

"What's going on ?" he asked.

"The pilot boat is coming alongside."

"The pilot boat ? What for ?"

"So the pilot can get off."

"Why is he getting off ??"

"He's not needed anymore."

"Wha... ? The PILOT is getting off ???"

 

Poor guy, he was really spooked.

 

Point is, as we all know, sometimes there's more than meets the eye when it comes to driving ships. :)

[richarduk]

I think one of the main gripes of the OP (with the exception of the actual physical decision not to dock) was that the Captain, or another officer, did not make any announcement and left it up to the Cruise Director. If this is done people are likely to suspect that someone may be hiding the whole truth.

 

I do also understand that there are aspects of sailing, docking and casting off etc that most of us will not fully understand. I suspect most will remember that all too many times seen video of the Carnival and RCCL ships colliding in strong winds when leaving Cozumel.

[Cindy]

How about one that doesn't flush when you hit the button?? You hit the button...it didn't flush = non-working toilet. If the brakes on your car don't work when you press but work 15 minutes later, "how long an interval or frequency of this occurrence that takes a nuisance into becoming a primary dysfunction."

 

We own the same dictionary!:D

[serendipity1499]

No answer (that I could see) from the OP to my question about Portofino, so I'll assume the answer is "Yes."

 

His complaint about the Captain's decision not to use Portofino as an alternate stop reminds me of this exchange with a passenger

as we were leaving port on the Amsterdam. A few of us were standing on deck watching the pilot boat approach. A man came near me and peered over the railing

to see what we were watching.

"What's going on ?" he asked.

"The pilot boat is coming alongside."

"The pilot boat ? What for ?"

"So the pilot can get off."

"Why is he getting off ??"

"He's not needed anymore."

"Wha... ? The PILOT is getting off ???"

 

Poor guy, he was really spooked.

 

Point is, as we all know, sometimes there's more than meets the eye when it comes to driving ships. :)

 

LOL...:D:D:D Good one!!!

[dmcfad2]

I have been reading this thread, and have not gotten through all of it, but did want to state my opinion. The issues with your toilet and shower are inexcusable. Not to over-simplify, but I believe so much of what passengers experience on a ship (or at a resort, or in a restaurant, or anywhere that deals with the public, for that matter) comes down to management, bottom line. When things are being managed properly, things get done right. I was on the Noordam last November and it was one of the best ships I have ever been on. We had a shower issue (no hot water) that was fixed within one day by replacing a part. I realize that there are sometimes extenuating circumstances, but I still believe management is key. Hope things get better for you on your cruise. You don't sound like a complainer to me and you have very valid complaints. It's a bummer.

[SilvertoGold]

I think one of the main gripes of the OP (with the exception of the actual physical decision not to dock) was that the Captain, or another officer, did not make any announcement and left it up to the Cruise Director. If this is done people are likely to suspect that someone may be hiding the whole truth.

 

I do also understand that there are aspects of sailing, docking and casting off etc that most of us will not fully understand. I suspect most will remember that all too many times seen video of the Carnival and RCCL ships colliding in strong winds when leaving Cozumel.

 

I don't see what is so awful about the Captain not making the announcement about the decision not to dock. This was not on par with abandonning ship!

 

The CD is hired to make announcements, this is part of his job.

 

The Captain would have been in touch with the Monaco harbourmaster, pilot, HAL head office and, and having made the desision, was working on the next steps and wanted the annoucement made as soon as possible.

And that was done.

[kazu]

I don't see what is so awful about the Captain not making the announcement about the decision not to dock. This was not on par with abandonning ship!

 

The CD is hired to make announcements, this is part of his job.

 

The Captain would have been in touch with the Monaco harbourmaster, pilot, HAL head office and, and having made the desision, was working on the next steps and wanted the annoucement made as soon as possible.

And that was done.

 

Interesting - we've missed a number of ports for various reasons (none I questionned) or were delayed. In EVERY case, the captain came on and reported to us. I guess they felt an obligation since the itinerary had changed.

 

Not disagreeing necessarily - just saying - and I think when the captain comes on, it's appreciated by the passengers and they realize the seriousness of the situation.

 

Just my perception of course;)

[SilvertoGold]

Interesting - we've missed a number of ports for various reasons (none I questionned) or were delayed. In EVERY case, the captain came on and reported to us. I guess they felt an obligation since the itinerary had changed.

 

Not disagreeing necessarily - just saying - and I think when the captain comes on, it's appreciated by the passengers and they realize the seriousness of the situation.

 

Just my perception of course;)

 

I agree, pax prefer the Captain. I know they don't do this every time something like this comes up, as I have experienced it at least 4 or 5 times on HAL. There are always possible reasons for the Captain not making the annoucement and I would, myself, give him the benefit of the doubt without a problem.

 

On a South America cruise, Captain Fred Everson had to announce in one port that the Pervian navy was taking dibs and delaying us until their sub was off.

A couple of ports later Captian Fred was on again, saying, "you're not going to believe this, but the Chillean navy has a couple of subs departing and we are held up again". A lot of laughter, pax really liked this Captain!

[chickenladyNH]

I haven't read the whole thread...I'm really tired but we were on this very cruise and have to add my 2 cents. We also had hot water problems but they did not last very long. The whole Monaco disaster was enough to get me angry. I'm not sure if the OP clarified this point but we were docked in Monaco! We had lines attached to the pier, but the gangplank was not lowered. The storm that went through was horrible....we were tied at the time. It wasn't until at least 1/2 hr after the storm had finished that the "port" was cancelled. The ship left the pier under calm waters with the sun shining down on us. We were flabbergasted that a port would be cancelled because there were some thunderstorms predicted after we had docked. My son, who is very prone to seasickness, had no trouble with the sea conditions that day, as opposed to several other days. I'm all for safety but I felt that leaving a port once docked was a little crazy. Several other cruise ships delayed docking that day and then were able to head into port later in the morning....as we were leaving.

As for the cruise in general...we were disappointed. MDR service was really slow and not very accurate, food ranged from just ok to yuck! (Raw half lobster!). Freaky elevator function...wild, disorganized Lido with many malfunctioning beverage and soft serve machines. Cooking class that was so bad it deserves it's own post. Of course, no days of the week elevator rugs. No Monaco was just the topping.

[kazu]

I haven't read the whole thread...I'm really tired but we were on this very cruise and have to add my 2 cents. We also had hot water problems but they did not last very long. The whole Monaco disaster was enough to get me angry. I'm not sure if the OP clarified this point but we were docked in Monaco! We had lines attached to the pier, but the gangplank was not lowered. The storm that went through was horrible....we were tied at the time. It wasn't until at least 1/2 hr after the storm had finished that the "port" was cancelled. The ship left the pier under calm waters with the sun shining down on us. We were flabbergasted that a port would be cancelled because there were some thunderstorms predicted after we had docked. My son, who is very prone to seasickness, had no trouble with the sea conditions that day, as opposed to several other days. I'm all for safety but I felt that leaving a port once docked was a little crazy. Several other cruise ships delayed docking that day and then were able to head into port later in the morning....as we were leaving.

As for the cruise in general...we were disappointed. MDR service was really slow and not very accurate, food ranged from just ok to yuck! (Raw half lobster!). Freaky elevator function...wild, disorganized Lido with many malfunctioning beverage and soft serve machines. Cooking class that was so bad it deserves it's own post. Of course, no days of the week elevator rugs. No Monaco was just the topping.

 

Thank you for coming on to report in. Very sad to hear. We loved this ship and it certainly doesn't sound like this cruise is the type we expect on this cruise.

[jmkennett]

Assuming your video also has audio? If this issue is "delay flush" do you also have audio/video of when it finally completes its cycle? However, I do support you bringing this proof to the attention of HAL management because it obviously is causing a lot of ill will among HAL passengers. Nice to hear you are enjoying the rest of your trip. Yes, randomly balky drink machines are also part of the backdrop too on other HAL ships. And the occasional elevators that are out of commission. Don't overlook those too. Life is treacherous on the high seas. :cool:

 

LOL. I do have audio as well. On several occassions, I recorded about every hour on the hour, showing the time stamp on the tv. I have all the proof anyone at corporate will need.

 

Within the week, I will post a full review with pictures (not of the toilet!), but I will highlight a few problems.

 

We had a great time, but I will really think twice of sailing on HAL in the near future. They gave $600 in OBC at the end, which, for what we had to deal with, I feel is a bit low. It essentially covered the grats.

 

Yes, the problems were a problem, but it was they way they handled it which was so disappointing. Had they been right on top of it, I would have understood, as things do break and there isn't always a solution right away. But in this case, it was a total lack of caring, until about eight days into it and after I told them I was posting on CC.

 

The ship is beautiful, but there were a lot of little things beyond the broken toilet and the Monaco situation. While I'm sure others had a perfect cruise, this was not the HAL that I know and love.

 

The Lido drink machine may sound minor, but it is not when there is only one left, with 1800 people wanting to use it. Due to this, it was always out of the advertised drink, be it lemonade or something else. In the past, there was always some combination of iced tea, lemonade, orange guava, apple, grape, fruit punch etc.

 

For the last six days, you were lucky if there was even ice available for water. The juices, were almost non existent. Almost eveytime I pushed the button for apple juice, etc, it would come out with about 50% of the flavor it should. There was little to no management of the drink machines. You had one drink machine working at one end, with no ice machine working. At the other end, it was the exact opposite, ice machine working, drink machine not. How do they not have an extra one onboard or at least the spare parts to fix it?

 

The first two days (noro control) was awful in the Lido. Not even close to enough staff, which made for big lines.

 

Food availability was terrible when needed the most (pax returning from port right before sailing). Not sure why HAL can't get off their regimented schedule to accommodate this.

 

Room service was absolutely the worst. Ordered four times in the afternoon and evening and all but once, the tray was missing main parts of the order. Breakfast was not delivered at all on three different mornings (Livorno, Naples, & last day). Completely unacceptable. How are they not prepared for port mornings? Is is something new where people are going on early tours in a port? So, we went off the ship hungry on those mornings as we had no time to get to the Lido.

 

MDR was slow. Not our waiters fault, but they are understaffed. Missed a lot of the little things, like having your favorite "whatever" on the table, not taking the lobster out of the shell, not deboning the Dover Sole, etc. Not a big deal, but fine dining, usually includes these things and this is just another example of the small details.

 

Anyway, there were a lot of good things and a few not so good things that I will detail later.

[jmkennett]

I haven't read the whole thread...I'm really tired but we were on this very cruise and have to add my 2 cents. We also had hot water problems but they did not last very long. The whole Monaco disaster was enough to get me angry. I'm not sure if the OP clarified this point but we were docked in Monaco! We had lines attached to the pier, but the gangplank was not lowered. The storm that went through was horrible....we were tied at the time. It wasn't until at least 1/2 hr after the storm had finished that the "port" was cancelled. The ship left the pier under calm waters with the sun shining down on us. We were flabbergasted that a port would be cancelled because there were some thunderstorms predicted after we had docked. My son, who is very prone to seasickness, had no trouble with the sea conditions that day, as opposed to several other days. I'm all for safety but I felt that leaving a port once docked was a little crazy. Several other cruise ships delayed docking that day and then were able to head into port later in the morning....as we were leaving.

As for the cruise in general...we were disappointed. MDR service was really slow and not very accurate, food ranged from just ok to yuck! (Raw half lobster!). Freaky elevator function...wild, disorganized Lido with many malfunctioning beverage and soft serve machines. Cooking class that was so bad it deserves it's own post. Of course, no days of the week elevator rugs. No Monaco was just the topping.

 

I couldn't have said it better. Missing Monaco was ridiculous! I didn't even realize we actually tied up. Earlier in this thread, I posted a picture taken around 10AM, showing the beautiful day we had sitting a few miles off the coast. I said earlier, I would debate anyone, and still will about the reasons for missing Monaco. You had to be there, which you were, to see it. Finding out that the other ship(s) went back in, ticked me off even further. The captain made no effort and I had several staff go "off the record" to agree with me. They can shove their cheap glass of champagne to make up for it.

[sammiedawg]

JMkennett, you were insuffuciently compensated for the non working plumbing. I would write a detailed letter to the corporate office and express your disappointment in the situation and limited financial credit. I would ask for refund of the per diem charges for 8 days minimum when you had the major issues. I like Holland America but the points you made hit home based on our last couple cruises we took with them. Looking forward to the full review.

[PatsyAnne]

Sometimes it is the undercurrents in the water during storm periods, that you can't even see or low water levels that determine the ability of a ship to make a port, be able to use tenders if necessary, or arrive or depart before its previously posted schedules. It is not just the weather you see outside on deck that affects these decisions.

 

A concern now that ships want to look more and more like land-based resorts instead of ocean going vessels, is the expectations of passengers who will not appreciate the vagaries and challenges ship travel still requires.

I've been searching through old pictures to find one from our Med trip on the Noordam in 2008, but haven't found what I want yet. It was a calm looking beautiful day, and we were taking tenders into Monte Carlo. After the first few (we were on one of those), the next were delayed by several hours, and then they started trying to bring us back. The line was a couple of hours long, and some of the tenders were banged up in the process and had to be repaired later. The sea still looked beautiful and calm but I remember there were some major swells - the picture I am looking for was out of the front window of the tender, and was all water except for a small opening somewhere in the middle of the window as the wave washed completely over us. :eek: Some of the less mobile passengers had great difficulty transferring back to the Noordam. I was very impressed with how the tenders (life boats) handled in tough conditions, and how the crew managed them and us.

 

So was the decision this year financial? Maybe, but I seriously doubt that is all there is to it. Captains want to make their ports and to have happy passengers. I don't like to miss ports, but I respect the captains' decisions.

 

I'll come back and post the picture if I can find it.

[Linda&Vern]

I'm confused. The OP said they were close to docking, someone else said Monaco was a tender port, now a new OP said the ship was actually docked (lines on the pier) - but then left. If indeed the ship had docked, would not the ship be responsible for paying port charges? :rolleyes: What financial gain would HAL have in leaving Monaco if already docked ... except for safety? I also wonder how many $$$ HAL lost on excursions for that port stop? My motto is always "Captain Knows Best." Now the pottie thing, I would have issues with too!

[Copper10-8]

I'm confused. The OP said they were close to docking, someone else said Monaco was a tender port, now a new OP said the ship was actually docked (lines on the pier) - but then left. If indeed the ship had docked, would not the ship be responsible for paying port charges? :rolleyes: What financial gain would HAL have in leaving Monaco if already docked ... except for safety? I also wonder how many $$$ HAL lost on excursions for that port stop? My motto is always "Captain Knows Best." Now the pottie thing, I would have issues with too!

 

Monaco used to be strictly a tender port but has had a single 'floating' dock large enough for cruise ships to come alongside to since 2002, kinda, sorta similar to Juneau's AJ Dock for those who have been there. The anchorages are still there for overflow.

The rest of your post makes way too much sense for a simple-minded knuckle dragger like myself to respond to!:) Have a nice one!

[PatsyAnne]

I'm confused. The OP said they were close to docking, someone else said Monaco was a tender port, now a new OP said the ship was actually docked (lines on the pier) - but then left. If indeed the ship had docked, would not the ship be responsible for paying port charges? :rolleyes: What financial gain would HAL have in leaving Monaco if already docked ... except for safety? I also wonder how many $$$ HAL lost on excursions for that port stop? My motto is always "Captain Knows Best." Now the pottie thing, I would have issues with too!

It was a tender port the day we were there in 2008 because of a race. What we heard was that Monaco didn't want us at the dock because we could have watched some of the race without paying.:rolleyes: But you wouldn't have thought there was any problem with the seas unless you watched the tenders try to line up with the ship. I guess what I'm saying is that as a passenger you don't have all of the information decisions are based on, and you don't have the calculations. I think it helps if the captain is the one to explain, because I know that on ships and also airplanes, different crew members can give conflicting information, often from their own conjecture. Always better if stated once, and clearly, from someone with the authority. Captain best, but CD should also have the authority to present the problem and the chosen solution.

 

In 2004 we were on the previous Noordam when we had to skip a port in Denmark. Years later we were on the current Noordam and told the captain we had been on that former cruise with him. He immediately mentioned that he remembered we had had to miss that port (this was four years later), and said that although we could have made it into port, the tides combined with the weather forecast made it probable that we would not have been able to leave. I could tell it still bothered him that he had not been able to take us there. The captain said that when he told one of the passengers why we hadn't docked, the passenger had angrily asked why he hadn't tried anyway.

 

Toilet and cold water? Yep, I'm with OP.

[jmkennett]

It was a tender port the day we were there in 2008 because of a race. What we heard was that Monaco didn't want us at the dock because we could have watched some of the race without paying.:rolleyes: But you wouldn't have thought there was any problem with the seas unless you watched the tenders try to line up with the ship. I guess what I'm saying is that as a passenger you don't have all of the information decisions are based on, and you don't have the calculations. I think it helps if the captain is the one to explain, because I know that on ships and also airplanes, different crew members can give conflicting information, often from their own conjecture. Always better if stated once, and clearly, from someone with the authority. Captain best, but CD should also have the authority to present the problem and the chosen solution.

 

In 2004 we were on the previous Noordam when we had to skip a port in Denmark. Years later we were on the current Noordam and told the captain we had been on that former cruise with him. He immediately mentioned that he remembered we had had to miss that port (this was four years later), and said that although we could have made it into port, the tides combined with the weather forecast made it probable that we would not have been able to leave. I could tell it still bothered him that he had not been able to take us there. The captain said that when he told one of the passengers why we hadn't docked, the passenger had angrily asked why he hadn't tried anyway.

 

Toilet and cold water? Yep, I'm with OP.

 

Sounds like he at least cared. Our captain mentioned it once, then never again. No real apology, like we really tried, etc. Nothing.

[jmkennett]

I'm confused. The OP said they were close to docking, someone else said Monaco was a tender port, now a new OP said the ship was actually docked (lines on the pier) - but then left. If indeed the ship had docked, would not the ship be responsible for paying port charges? :rolleyes: What financial gain would HAL have in leaving Monaco if already docked ... except for safety? I also wonder how many $$$ HAL lost on excursions for that port stop? My motto is always "Captain Knows Best." Now the pottie thing, I would have issues with too!

 

I don't want to beat a dead horse but my problem and I think that of the other poster on our cruise is the reason that was given. I get that the captain "knows best" and all of that. I've been on 44 cruises and have seen about every different condition. I'm not saying I know more than the captain, but the captain made his bed on this one.

 

His excuse was there was a possibility for more thunderstorms that afternoon. That was the reason given by him. So, either that is what he was going with or he lied. Going on that premise, ports would be cancelled all the time. Sure, there may have been a possibility of a storm. There is also the possibility of a tsunami. The weather was fine the rest of the day. There was no wind, rough seas, etc. Other ships returned. His decision was made in haste and he made no effort to do anything else, other than give us a glass of champagne.

 

Had it been bad weather for hours on end, I would completely understand. This storm was gone almost before it started. Was it bad, yes, but it was really quick. I've had cancelled ports and never had a problem with it other than disappointment. Believe me, if you had been on the cruise, you would see what we are talking about. People were absolutely furious and had every right to be.

 

I'm not sure of how the rules work regarding docking fees. A higher up in the front office told us that it was also a financial decision involving docking fees. Who knows. I know the shore excursion question and that HAL wouldn't have wanted to lose that money by missing the port. Correct. I'm sure the captain didn't want to leave, but had to do it at that point in time. However, when they couldn't get back in, in time for people to do the shore excursions, this is when money comes into play.

 

I would imagine, they figured since they had to refund the shore excursions and couldn't still sell the excursions, they would make a lot more money by selling drinks, casino, etc. We were told the decision was made by the captain and Seattle corporate. I'm sure at that point it was what were told by the FO, a financial decision by corporate.

[SilvertoGold]

I don't want to beat a dead horse but my problem and I think that of the other poster on our cruise is the reason that was given. I get that the captain "knows best" and all of that. I've been on 44 cruises and have seen about every different condition. I'm not saying I know more than the captain, but the captain made his bed on this one.

 

His excuse was there was a possibility for more thunderstorms that afternoon. That was the reason given by him. So, either that is what he was going with or he lied. Going on that premise, ports would be cancelled all the time. Sure, there may have been a possibility of a storm. There is also the possibility of a tsunami. The weather was fine the rest of the day. There was no wind, rough seas, etc. Other ships returned. His decision was made in haste and he made no effort to do anything else, other than give us a glass of champagne.

 

Had it been bad weather for hours on end, I would completely understand. This storm was gone almost before it started. Was it bad, yes, but it was really quick. I've had cancelled ports and never had a problem with it other than disappointment. Believe me, if you had been on the cruise, you would see what we are talking about. People were absolutely furious and had every right to be.

 

I'm not sure of how the rules work regarding docking fees. A higher up in the front office told us that it was also a financial decision involving docking fees. Who knows. I know the shore excursion question and that HAL wouldn't have wanted to lose that money by missing the port. Correct. I'm sure the captain didn't want to leave, but had to do it at that point in time. However, when they couldn't get back in, in time for people to do the shore excursions, this is when money comes into play.

 

I would imagine, they figured since they had to refund the shore excursions and couldn't still sell the excursions, they would make a lot more money by selling drinks, casino, etc. We were told the decision was made by the captain and Seattle corporate. I'm sure at that point it was what were told by the FO, a financial decision by corporate.

 

What I cannot understand is with 44 cruises you were not able to tell that the ship was docked and lines tied in Monaco. I really feel sorry for all your issues with this cruise, but I have a hard time with your credibility as far as some of the statements you have made goes!

Sincerely hope your next cruise is better!

[thepoint]

I'm confused. The OP said they were close to docking, someone else said Monaco was a tender port, now a new OP said the ship was actually docked (lines on the pier) - but then left. If indeed the ship had docked, would not the ship be responsible for paying port charges? :rolleyes: What financial gain would HAL have in leaving Monaco if already docked ... except for safety? I also wonder how many $$$ HAL lost on excursions for that port stop? My motto is always "Captain Knows Best." Now the pottie thing, I would have issues with too!

 

 

In September 2012, we were docked and walked into town.

[jmkennett]

What I cannot understand is with 44 cruises you were not able to tell that the ship was docked and lines tied in Monaco. I really feel sorry for all your issues with this cruise, but I have a hard time with your credibility as far as some of the statements you have made goes!

Sincerely hope your next cruise is better!

 

How about it was pouring down rain and I didn't go out outside. We were right on the pier, but from inside I could not see down the side of the ship and the ropes. When it stopped, I looked outside and we were not tied up. A few minutes later the CD said we were leaving.

 

What issues do you have with my credibility when you were not there? What possible reason would I have to make any of this up? The other poster on this thread was on my cruise and basically said the same thing about Monaco, the Lido, MDR, hot water, etc. If you don't want to believe me, that is up to you.

 

I have always loved HAL and am a three star mariner, but they were not close to their usual self on this one. As I've stated before, I've worked for a major hotel chain, in a AAA Five Diamond hotel, for over a decade. Maybe not being a captain of a ship and docking in Monaco, but I think I have some credibility in how the hospitality industry should work. In my case, it didn't work on this cruise. There are some issues with management, basic customer service, and maintenance and I hope it improves and is only isolated to this ship.

[lovetocruise2020]

I hope it all works out for you. We had a pretty bad first cruise on HAL (although i knew we loved the overall experience) there were some major issues.

 

They made the effort for us, made it right, we gave them another chance and they knocked our socks off ever since then.

 

I do hope it works out for you. Did you have a TA to go to bat for you?

 

I sure hope it all works out to your satisfaction.