QM2 virus..what you should know

[pisces1]

We just returned from the New England/Canada sailing that ended today on the QM2. My husband became ill, even though we followed the most stringent precautions.

 

Here are some observations of potential infection sites that are not strictly monitored:

 

Key cards (someone else mentioned this in the previous thread). Depending on what you do, your card can be touched by numerous ungloved hands.

 

Menus (they are not wiped down after every passenger)

 

Casino (witnessed random wipe downs). A hot bed for transfer. Why don't they just provide guest with gloves if they are going to keep it open? Gaming chips, slot buttons and handles, dice, etc. They didn't shut it down, because it's a money maker.

 

Bartenders, ungloved, handling cards then touching lemons or mint sprigs to accompany drinks.

 

It is difficult to contain a virus that is almost as prevalent as the common cold, especially when you are in a confined space with 4,000 other folks who may or may not adhere to Cunard's request to practice caution.

[pepperrn]

I caught the "QM2 virus" in 2006. Had it ever since. Love it :) .

 

Fortunately, so far, I've never caught the dreaded "Noro" on board any ship.

 

Best wishes,

[cunardaddict]

I caught the "QM2 virus" in 2006. Had it ever since. Love it :)

 

No cure available. We fight the symptoms regularly by vaccination...

[olegna]

Just returned from the QM2 Quebec voyage today.

 

Our compliments to the crew for their extra efforts in making the voyage safe for all. They all took on additional responsibilities of maintaining a healthy environment. All cabin door handles, all railings, all tables were dissected frequently. The crew was working extra hard throughout the ship.

 

While the captain did keep us posted almost daily as to the event, we noticed only a few cabins that appeared to be occupied by individuals in need of assistance.

 

It appeared to be a minor inconvenience for us healthy passengers and all seemed to enjoy the twelve day adventure.

 

Looking forward to our next cruise on the QM2.

[pisces1]

God Bless the folks that did not get ill, but my husband did. I posted this as a precautionary tale to anyone who might be aboard a ship that has the virus. As to comments about the ship's crews' valiant efforts to sanitize the ship, I must disagree. I will post later about the way our situation was handled. If you would still like to board our stateroom after we left, then you are a courageous individual who must posses an amazing immune system.

[DDBINK1]

We just returned from the New England/Canada sailing that ended today on the QM2. My husband became ill, even though we followed the most stringent precautions.

 

Here are some observations of potential infection sites that are not strictly monitored:

 

Key cards (someone else mentioned this in the previous thread). Depending on what you do, your card can be touched by numerous ungloved hands.

 

Menus (they are not wiped down after every passenger)

 

Casino (witnessed random wipe downs). A hot bed for transfer. Why don't they just provide guest with gloves if they are going to keep it open? Gaming chips, slot buttons and handles, dice, etc. They didn't shut it down, because it's a money maker.

 

Bartenders, ungloved, handling cards then touching lemons or mint sprigs to accompany drinks.

 

It is difficult to contain a virus that is almost as prevalent as the common cold, especially when you are in a confined space with 4,000 other folks who may or may not adhere to Cunard's request to practice caution.

 

I always carry individual chlorine wipes on every trip and wipe the menu down and my key card after and before use. I also use a larger package on arrival to the cabin and wipe down all the surfaces. I avoid the casino, all you do is loose so why go?? In the bars I ask for a drink no lemon or lime and shaken not stirred no straw also. Hope I never get the gunk but I still love to cruise. Alcohol does kill the virus right??

[Salacia]

We just returned from the New England/Canada sailing that ended today on the QM2. My husband became ill, even though we followed the most stringent precautions.

 

Here are some observations of potential infection sites that are not strictly monitored:

 

Key cards (someone else mentioned this in the previous thread). Depending on what you do, your card can be touched by numerous ungloved hands.

 

Menus (they are not wiped down after every passenger)

 

Casino (witnessed random wipe downs). A hot bed for transfer. Why don't they just provide guest with gloves if they are going to keep it open? Gaming chips, slot buttons and handles, dice, etc. They didn't shut it down, because it's a money maker.

 

Bartenders, ungloved, handling cards then touching lemons or mint sprigs to accompany drinks.

 

It is difficult to contain a virus that is almost as prevalent as the common cold, especially when you are in a confined space with 4,000 other folks who may or may not adhere to Cunard's request to practice caution.

 

Hi Pisces1. Sorry to hear your husband got sick on the voyage. I hope he is feeling better now.

 

Unfortunately, following the most strigent personal hygiene procedures is no 100% guarantee that we won't get the virus because no amount of washing or scrubbing can prevent inhalation of virus particles, as demonstrated by this lab in London: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/01/04/168608466/as-norovirus-rages-a-robot-named-vomiting-larry-gets-a-closeup (caution: graphic video)

 

I agree with your observations. I hadn't thought about the key card:eek:, but after reading the menu, I used my little bottle of hand sanitizer which I carried with me.

 

As to potential inffection sites, I wondered about the hot tubs and pools remaining open after Code Red went into effect. Regards, -S.

[Underwatr]

Menus (they are not wiped down after every passenger).

Really?

 

During the outbreak last Christmas we got our dinner menus only once during the meal and had to order dessert at the same time we ordered starters and mains, so as to prevent shuffling the deck with the dinner menus. Was this procedure not followed during dinner Did you personally see breakfast or lunch menus re-used between passengers?

[pisces1]

I am sure that there are numerous more locations where surfaces or water (pool, hot tub) may not or cannot be sanitized. I rarely post on this site because there are too many members who question or become testy when someone is reporting negative experiences. DDBINK1, I frankly don't care if you don't gamble, but the many folks that do could become the carriers of this virus because of the lack of sanitization that occurs in the casino. That is the point I was getting at. I witnessed it, I didn't play. The gels and wipes only do so much. Trust me, my hands and my husband's were raw and dry from our constant hand washing. Again, this post was for FYI, not for a discussion on people's personal preferences. Sigh, Sigh, Sigh.

[pisces1]

Yes, Underwtr, we got menus, even dessert ones after the code red. They were also free to grab at the tables in front of the Kings Court to view for the various dining venues. Why do I feel I have to defend myself here? Do you work for Cunard?

[fishywood]

Key cards (someone else mentioned this in the previous thread). Depending on what you do, your card can be touched by numerous ungloved hands.

 

 

When my 2011 QV voyage was begun under Code Red, when handing my key card to a crew member I was instructed to lay it on the counter where it would be sprayed with disenfectant before being picked up. I can only speculate that the reason this was done then but not now was that on QV the virus had spread much futher among the crew (including senior officers) than the passengers--at least until the fourth night when the seas turned rough and rather than try to distinguish between Mal de Mer and Noro it was decided to extend the Code Red an additional two days.

 

OP, I do hope your husband feels better soon and that you come back with further details when you can.

[pisces1]

I caught the "QM2 virus" in 2006. Had it ever since. Love it :) .

 

Fortunately, so far, I've never caught the dreaded "Noro" on board any ship.

 

Best wishes,

 

I am not sure why you are posting this. In jest perhaps? As I watched my husband of 25 years buckled over in a state of remarkable pain, you can have the time to post a ridiculously callous comment. Need a hobby perhaps? Use your time to make a better world.

[fantasy51]

Pisces, it sounds as though your cruise has been very stressful and not the relaxing holiday you had hoped for. I hope you can relax and get over it soon. Your comments on this thread do not read like the helpful, positive comments that you have written on other threads. I wish you all the best as you de-stress. Thank you for posting your handy hints to help the rest of us avoid noro virus but now I think it would be best for you to concentrate on your own needs and relax.

[ricki]

Please don't become complacent about using the hand sanitizer gel as protection against the Noro virus. It is not effective. The only thing that helps, other than chlorine bleach, is to wash hands vigorously with soap and water for at least 20 seconds of washing and 20 seconds of rinsing.

 

Sorry for those who became ill, but it is not the QM Virus--rather an irresponsible name for it!

 

Ricki

[pmb1]

We just returned from the New England/Canada sailing that ended today on the QM2. My husband became ill, even though we followed the most stringent precautions. ...

Sorry that your husband became ill despite your precautions. What was it like being restricted to your cabin?

[Salacia]

Pisces, it sounds as though your cruise has been very stressful and not the relaxing holiday you had hoped for. I hope you can relax and get over it soon. Your comments on this thread do not read like the helpful, positive comments that you have written on other threads. I wish you all the best as you de-stress. Thank you for posting your handy hints to help the rest of us avoid noro virus but now I think it would be best for you to concentrate on your own needs and relax.

 

Wow. Are we to limit ourselves to helpful, postive comments? Or are we here to share our experiences? A candid video made during this cruise would have been most helpful in relating a variety of conditions.

 

Perhaps more passengers should follow fantasy51's example and make a video of their voyage (and I mean that seriously).

 

Alternatively, we could follow Fantasy51's advice to concentrate on own needs and relax.

 

I'd like to think there is a middle ground somewhere in between.

[pepperrn]

I am not sure why you are posting this. In jest perhaps? As I watched my husband of 25 years buckled over in a state of remarkable pain, you can have the time to post a ridiculously callous comment. Need a hobby perhaps? Use your time to make a better world.

Dear pisces1.

 

You're not sure why I posted.

I posted because there is no such thing as "QM2 virus", the subject heading you used for this thread (unless you use the term the way I did).

There is, however, something called "noro virus". Others have used this term as a thread subject line.

I have often told others I suffer from "QM2 virus" or have caught the "QM2 bug".

 

You then proceed above to attack me personally, something I did not do to you or your husband.

(What is humour to some, is sometimes ridiculous to others, I'll accept. Please show me where I was callous. Thank you for your concern about how I spend my spare time. And I would hope we all try to make the world a better place, but some do not (Kenya)).

 

If you post on a public forum, please be understanding if people don't seek out your permission to comment. That's the way it works. You have no need to "defend yourself", simply post and accept that others may not share your point of view, you only "defend yourself" if you choose to do so. One can ignore comments that one disagrees with.

 

As for "I rarely post on this site because there are too many members who question or become testy when someone is reporting negative experiences". I can only speak for myself of course. I'm sure you would not and never could be one of those who only post negative comments.

But there are some who do so.

It is so easy; a personal gripe, work for another cruise-line, like to "stir the pot", "lost your marbles" or just "that sort of person".

I myself have posted complaints and observations of poor practice.

But I am not one who only comes here as a constant moaner, always complaining, never happy (as some do). Occasionally someone's description of their voyage is so far removed from my own experience that I doubt they were on the same ship, or indeed in one or two cases, have ever been on a ship. However, I repeat, I am certain you do not fall into that group.

 

Of course it is also easy to blame a cruise-line for noro. I'm sure, in some cases crew do bring it onboard. But they are trained on how not to, have seen the effects on others or on themselves many times, and so I hope that rarely happens. It is far more likely that noro is brought on board by ignorant passengers, and I have witnessed on numerous occasions some people's personal hygiene standards fall far below what most would consider acceptable. So, in a sense, we bring noro on ourselves.

 

I'm looking forward to my next crossing on QM2, as I always do. I've friends on board at this very moment, heading for the UK. I shall be asking them all about their experiences of the anti-noro precautions on board when we meet at the end of their crossing.

 

I hope your husband makes a full recovery, and that your next cruise is "noro-free".

All best wishes to you both and many happy sailing in the future :) .

[fantasy51]

Wow. Are we to limit ourselves to helpful, postive comments? Or are we here to share our experiences? A candid video made during this cruise would have been most helpful in relating a variety of conditions.

 

Perhaps more passengers should follow fantasy51's example and make a video of their voyage (and I mean that seriously).

 

Alternatively, we could follow Fantasy51's advice to concentrate on own needs and relax.

 

I'd like to think there is a middle ground somewhere in between.

 

Hi Salacia. I wasn't advocating always limiting ourselves to positive comments. My comment was genuinely meant for the OP in this particular case. I had been horrified by a couple of her posts here and I therefore looked back at other posts she had made and found them to be helpful and positive. I would like to think that some of her posts in this thread are a result of the stress of the noro virus. I know how stress feels and how it can affect MY reaction to other people, including their humour. I would rather encourage her to rest in this particular instance, rather than upset others and end up being criticised in return.

[Whitemarsh]

Hi Salacia. I wasn't advocating always limiting ourselves to positive comments. My comment was genuinely meant for the OP in this particular case. I had been horrified by a couple of her posts here and I therefore looked back at other posts she had made and found them to be helpful and positive. I would like to think that some of her posts in this thread are a result of the stress of the noro virus. I know how stress feels and how it can affect MY reaction to other people, including their humour. I would rather encourage her to rest in this particular instance, rather than upset others and end up being criticised in return.

 

Fantasy, I appreciated your advice, I thought it was proffered with the best of intentions and it sounded like very good advice indeed.

[fantasy51]

Fantasy, I appreciated your advice, I thought it was proffered with the best of intentions and it sounded like very good advice indeed.

 

Thanks Whitemarsh. Now, if only I can take it myself ... I feel a cruise coming on, to help me destress.

[pepperrn]

Hi Salacia. I wasn't advocating always limiting ourselves to positive comments. My comment was genuinely meant for the OP in this particular case. I had been horrified by a couple of her posts here and I therefore looked back at other posts she had made and found them to be helpful and positive. I would like to think that some of her posts in this thread are a result of the stress of the noro virus. I know how stress feels and how it can affect MY reaction to other people, including their humour. I would rather encourage her to rest in this particular instance, rather than upset others and end up being criticised in return.

Hi fantasy51,

 

Please excuse me making a personal remark here.

I have to say, publicly, how much I enjoy your polite, understanding and well-thought through posts and comments. They are a joy to read and can not only be a breath of fresh air, but have often helped to put things in their proper perspective.

You and seasidegal should be commended for your posts, I look out for comments from both of you; the voices of reason and restraint. Please continue to post whenever you are able.

Thank you letting me go "off topic" for one post :) , it was just something I felt I had to say.

 

Sincere best wishes and many happy sailings for the future.

[Whitemarsh]

Hi fantasy51,

 

Please excuse me making a personal remark here.

I have to say, publicly, how much I enjoy your polite, understanding and well-thought through posts and comments. They are a joy to read and can not only be a breath of fresh air, but have often helped to put things in their proper perspective.

You and seasidegal should be commended for your posts, I look out for comments from both of you; the voices of reason and restraint. Please continue to post whenever you are able.

 

I'll second that, and may I add that your contributions, Pepper, are as polite, understanding and well-thought through as Fantasy and Seasidegal.

 

Too often we find ourselves immersed in the misery and negativity of others, it's sometimes hard to imagine that the world is as bad a place as they continually make out.

 

So I, for one, am appreciative of your positive contribution to this forum.

[fantasy51]

Whitemarsh, I'll second that. ;)

 

Thank you Pepper. It is easier to be restrained when one is NOT the subject of someone else's stress.

[Underwatr]

Yes, Underwtr, we got menus, even dessert ones after the code red. They were also free to grab at the tables in front of the Kings Court to view for the various dining venues. Why do I feel I have to defend myself here? Do you work for Cunard?

No, but some of what you report was not what I saw during a similar (although I presume more severe) outbreak last Christmas. I'm trying to figure out why there was a difference in protocol, and so I was wondering what you actually saw vs. what you were "certain" was going on. As others have suggested, there appear to be escalating levels of response, with self-serve buffet being removed at the first level and things like removing salt shakers and not reusing menus being imposed at higher infection levels.

 

It's all a can't-win situation for the normal operation of the ship, I'm afraid. If they were to shut down the casino and eliminate menus in the very early stages more would be affected by that than might become sick. The bridge lessons continued through the Christmas QM2 outbreak although the participants were nervous hand-washers.

 

The CDC reporting requirements are mandatory when more than 3% of passengers and crew have become ill. For QV that would occur at about 90 infections (2014 passengers, 900 crew). Apparently fewer than that became sick since it does not appear on the CDC webpage (the QM2 outbreak appeared as soon as the level of infection crossed the threshold). http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm

[candhu18]

What is worrying to me is that this norovirus outbreak has occured less than 5 weeks after an inspection report that covered 44 items and rated the QM2 at only 92. How many reports have to be made before thorough action is taken?

 

CDC spreadsheet report at http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionWith100Score.aspx renders average scores for Celebrity, RCCL and Carnival in the high 90s (around 97 to 98) whereas Carnival owned Cunard only has an average around 92. With a score of 85 being considered unacceptable, Cunard are very much middle of the road for their inspection scores. Why has this fact not been brought to light before now? How many outbreaks of the norovirus on Cunard ships have there been reported this year? The inspection report for the QM2 dated 15 August 2013 does not make for pretty reading - it can be found here: http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionDetailReport.aspx?ColI=MTg2NDAxMTM%3d-1VPq8IE3KZ4%3d

 

Furthermore, Celebrity, RCCL and Carnival have achieved this average over a large aggregate number of ships, Cunard only have 3 ships to worry about. If RCCL with their enormous ship Oasis of the Seas can achieve a score of 100 then there is no excuse for Cunard. Time for some honesty and action from Cunard. The sooner Cunard address these issues the better. As an elderly gentleman myself, I sympathise fully with the OP and her husband. I hope he returns to good health soon.